Ambassador, Sthalta, Tenet tetra, and their many MANY duplicates

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Absolutely despise these type of weapons, i hate them so much.

First fire mode usually shoots low damage shots with fast fire rate that you couldn't bother with.

Second fire mode is a high damage high Crit explosive shot with huge Radius that consumes a Bunch of ammo.

DE, don't you think you should stop releasing these type of weapons? 

I mean, What's the point of any Tetra variant if i have the Tenet one with explosives?

What's the point of kinetic ricochet augment if you've completely ruined the projectiles of the first fire mode? And made the secondary fire the main selling point?

Please enough with this formula, try something new.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

There are only so many gimmicks you can give a weapon. It's been 7 years there are only so many original ideas left on the planet. 

Fortunately you have the choice to not use them. 

None of the weapons in the game are mandatory except the mastery for MR, which is also a personal choice. 

You can use what weapons you like, and the people that like these weapons will continue to use them.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

25 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There are only so many gimmicks you can give a weapon. It's been 7 years there are only so many original ideas left on the planet. 

Fortunately you have the choice to not use them. 

None of the weapons in the game are mandatory except the mastery for MR, which is also a personal choice. 

You can use what weapons you like, and the people that like these weapons will continue to use them.

This is not a thread asking DE to "Cancel" these specific weapons, and i stopped using them so don't even start "if you don't like it don't use it" argument with me.

But it's very obvious it's repetitive.

Don't make the past 7 years an excuse for DE's obvious convergence to this weapon design formula.

There is still plenty of room for even the slightest gimmick, than wasting time and resources on the same weapon design with different stats.

25 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

there are only so many original ideas left on the planet. 

Honestly Madurai, i usually agree with you on some things, but if you want to defend DE everytime then at least come up with a more hopeful optimistic logic than blaming it on the entire planet and the concept of originality just to protect DE from deserved criticism for their creative choices 🤔

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

This is not a thread asking DE to "Cancel" these specific weapons, and i stopped using them so don't even start "if you don't like it don't use it" argument with me.

But it's very obvious it's repetitive.

Don't make the past 7 years an excuse for DE's obvious convergence to this weapon design formula.

There is still plenty of room for even the slightest gimmick, than wasting time and resources on the same weapon design with different stats.

Honestly Madurai, i usually agree with you on some things, but if you want to defend DE everytime then at least come up with a more hopeful optimistic logic than blaming it on the entire planet and the concept of originality just to protect DE from deserved criticism for their creative choices 🤔

You're not the only player. I don't have to defend DE in this. 

There are more players than you alone that like the weapons. 

DE does it because they were told to in many ways.

It's later in the game so the rewards have to be more than a pea shooter. You see how people are already whining about lich grind....so why do a lich for a single target pistol with no aoe? 

They are high value items that are highly sought after for late game players.

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You're not the only player. I don't have to defend DE in this. 

There are more players than you alone that like the weapons. 

DE does it because they were told to in many ways.

It's later in the game so the rewards have to be more than a pea shooter. You see how people are already whining about lich grind....so why do a lich for a single target pistol with no aoe? 

They are high value items that are highly sought after for late game players.

Your logic hurts my head. The problem here is that you're popping up in so many threads with your obnoxious responses nowadays its actually becoming a deterrent from reading the forums. I hope the mods start to crack down on your general negative additions to basically every thread you post on.

The OP didn't ask for another single target pistol. He's asking for more variance in weapon mechanics and less weapons that are reskinned versions of each other with different stats. It's not invalid feedback. Seriously.

[lukinu_u]

il y a 5 minutes, (PSN)Madurai-Prime a dit :

There are only so many gimmicks you can give a weapon. It's been 7 years there are only so many original ideas left on the planet. 

The issue is not the lack of idea available, but how poorly they are incorporated.

Keeping the idea of a rifle with high damage explosive secondary fire, there are many ways to incorparate it that make it interesting without making the primary fire pointless. Here are a few examples :

• Give the primary fire a much higher DPS.
  This encourage using the AoE only on large enemy groups.
   
• Make the secondary fire use remaining ammo in the clip and give the weapon a large clip with long reload time.
  This encourage using the secondary fire to finish enemies or in desperate situation.
   
• Buff the secondary fire depending on damage dealt with the primary one.
  This encourage using both as none is effective alone, like melee heavy attack (at least how they should be).
   
• Make the secondary an utility grenade that help the primary fire. For example the secondary can be a stun grenade while the primary fire get a special effect on headshot.
  This encourage using the secondary fire as an utility tool that other weapons and allies can benefit from.
   
• Make the AoE very short range as a downside.
  This encourage using both fire modes differently : primary for long range and secondary for short range AoE.
   

These are just very basic ideas but they all revolve around balancing the two fire modes to make them both useful, which make sense when you have multiple fire modes on a weapons.
Cedo, Euphona and Phantasma achieve this well, despite the different fire modes benefiting from different stats, making them hard to mod. But overall, it make the weapon much more fun and interesting to use, which should be the number 1 priority when introducing weapons with multiple fire modes.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, lukinu_u said:

The issue is not the lack of idea available, but how poorly they are incorporated.

Keeping the idea of a rifle with high damage explosive secondary fire, there are many ways to incorparate it that make it interesting without making the primary fire pointless. Here are a few examples :

• Give the primary fire a much higher DPS.
  This encourage using the AoE only on large enemy groups.
   
• Make the secondary fire use remaining ammo in the clip and give the weapon a large clip with long reload time.
  This encourage using the secondary fire to finish enemies or in desperate situation.
   
• Buff the secondary fire depending on damage dealt with the primary one.
  This encourage using both as none is effective alone, like melee heavy attack (at least how they should be).
   
• Make the secondary an utility grenade that help the primary fire. For example the secondary can be a stun grenade while the primary fire get a special effect on headshot.
  This encourage using the secondary fire as an utility tool that other weapons and allies can benefit from.
   
• Make the AoE very short range as a downside.
  This encourage using both fire modes differently : primary for long range and secondary for short range AoE.
   

These are just very basic ideas but they all revolve around balancing the two fire modes to make them both useful, which make sense when you have multiple fire modes on a weapons.
Cedo, Euphona and Phantasma achieve this well, despite the different fire modes benefiting from different stats, making them hard to mod. But overall, it make the weapon much more fun and interesting to use, which should be the number 1 priority when introducing weapons with multiple fire modes.

Ok I see what you mean I apologize. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

Cedo,

Oh my god the Cedo! The perfect example of a Weapon with multiple fire modes that achieve meaningful relationship.

Not only was it a unique weapon of itself, it acts as fifth ability for Lavos so crucial for his playstyle.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2021-10-13 at 6:09 PM, lukinu_u said:

The issue is not the lack of idea available, but how poorly they are incorporated.

Keeping the idea of a rifle with high damage explosive secondary fire, there are many ways to incorparate it that make it interesting without making the primary fire pointless. Here are a few examples :

• Give the primary fire a much higher DPS.
  This encourage using the AoE only on large enemy groups.
   
• Make the secondary fire use remaining ammo in the clip and give the weapon a large clip with long reload time.
  This encourage using the secondary fire to finish enemies or in desperate situation.
   
• Buff the secondary fire depending on damage dealt with the primary one.
  This encourage using both as none is effective alone, like melee heavy attack (at least how they should be).
   
• Make the secondary an utility grenade that help the primary fire. For example the secondary can be a stun grenade while the primary fire get a special effect on headshot.
  This encourage using the secondary fire as an utility tool that other weapons and allies can benefit from.
   
• Make the AoE very short range as a downside.
  This encourage using both fire modes differently : primary for long range and secondary for short range AoE.
   

These are just very basic ideas but they all revolve around balancing the two fire modes to make them both useful, which make sense when you have multiple fire modes on a weapons.
Cedo, Euphona and Phantasma achieve this well, despite the different fire modes benefiting from different stats, making them hard to mod. But overall, it make the weapon much more fun and interesting to use, which should be the number 1 priority when introducing weapons with multiple fire modes.

Thank you. Yes

As they are now the two firing modes are very poorly integrated.

when the Mode Switch is a Forced Reload Delay that takes longer than it does to swap between Primary/Secondary weapons;

then I'm better off just equipping two separate weapons, say an Ogris and Twin Grakatas, to get the same rifle/grenade effect. Throw on a Synth set to get auto reloading and you've got superior versatility. Absolutely no point to Ambassador/T-Tetra/Staltha

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

🤔 Personally I like seeing weird ideas from DE. When the playerbase tells them what their own game is and asks for equipment to deal with “A horde shooter”, I’m not surprised at the prevalence of easy AoE options on new weapons (which is kind of weird since they don’t listen to us).

To be honest though, much as I’d like to see additional interesting weapons from DE, what I’d really like is weird and odd mods and Arcanes to play with. More Exilus, please! And mods that augment a specific weapon or mechanic that I can equip when I don’t need so much power.

Aside from that, if DE make more non-AoE weapons or weapons with weird, situational, and less-effective-than-standard AoE attacks, more power to them

[Famecans]

New modifiers for specific features can make any weapon, equipment or frame viable.

I think the DE needs to pick monthly underestimated quirks in random equipment and add new mods to increase these stats.

Each weapon mentioned above has a good and bad feature. the DE can choose the good or bad feature to increase any efficiency rather than superficially reworking numerical stats.

but, unfortunately there are a lot of weapons waiting for improvements and a lot of mechanics locked by broken modifiers, I think DE won't say anything about that.

[(XBOX)CxrpusPrime]

The Tenet Tetra is the only weapon from all the Tenet guns that has an alt fire that turns it into an aoe weapon gimmick, you completely ignored the Diplos, Plasmor, Detron, Envoy, Flux, Spirex, Agendus, Exac, Livia & Grigori. 

[Lutesque]

Doom has The Best Alt Fire Mechanics.... 😛

[Kaggelos]

Personally i love using those kinds of weapons, it adds variety, and i can dig that ^^

At the end of the day, i think it boils down to taste.