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Unpopular Opinion on Toxin


DaMasque
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Toxin, it goes through shields.

On one hand, its a Corpus killer. On another hand, Toxin ancients (Harpooning and providing a Toxin buff.) 

Toxin damage should not go through shields but Toxin proc should.

Still a corpus killer, has a reason to stack toxin, and Toxin Ancients can't down us in the dark.

Edited by DaMasque
spelling is hard / Clarification
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why are you trying to use Toxin Damage against Infested at all? they're not weak to it, and many of them are Resistant. it's just a bad choice all around.
why would you intentionally pick a Damage Type that the highest EHP Units in a Faction are resistant to. it just doesn't make sense.

anyways, Corpus have addressed this weakness that they have anyways, via Robots with Armor, or Shielding buffs that will block Toxin. 

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2 minutes ago, DaMasque said:

But yes, Toxin damage to warframes.

oh

 

i think that's more to do with the way Toxic Ancients work, than that they deal Toxin at all.
what i mean is that the Buff they give doesn't take Level scaling into account (much like how Ancient Disruptors don't either), and so the numbers scale up to silly levels very quickly.
same goes for their scream attack, deals both high Damage and hits often, so it scales very sharply as well.

i think that's more of a mechanical and scaling thing to fix there.

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I lost 3 Revives Yesterday to Toxin Attacks.... And all I can say is meh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess it's an Issue but it no where near as bad as the problem with Disruptors and Energy Leeches....

As I like to say... Survivability is Extremely Overrated...

Infact the reason why I died wasn't necessarily because of Toxin... It was because of a lack of Mod Real Estate.... There's just not enough Room on my Mag to fit Vitality so I'm just stuck with Redirection....

 

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 I think the only change needed would be slightly more telegraphing before they use their AoE cast, and maybe force them to wait a couple seconds between using Ripline and the AoE: several times in the past I have been reeled in and then immediately downed, so that would help too. 

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

There's just not enough Room on my Mag to fit Vitality so I'm just stuck with Redirection....

Forma is the way. unless we're talking slots, in which case I'd assume you have Primed Flow on so try Quick Thinking instead and keep your energy up, then you basically have a second health bar. between that, shield gating and recasting Polarize, you should be pretty hard to kill as long as you pay attention. 

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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19 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Forma is the way.

Yeah I've been grinding Recovered Nightwave Challenges to try and get this Umbra Forma... I got Blockaded by The "Day Trader" Act but some friends rescued me from the nightmare so now I'm back in track....

22 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

in which case I'd assume you have Primed Flow on so try Quick Thinking instead and keep your energy up,

I heard Quick Thinking was changed some how but I wasn't told how exactly.... It main issue was you needed to have Armor to mitigate the amount of Energy Drained from the Lethal Damage you Take... But if Mag had Armor then you literally wouldn't needed Quick Thinking in the first Place...

Did they fix that ?

I've been maintaining my Energy using SpectroSiphon thanks to The Barbershop of Horrors in my back room 😱 !!!

28 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

between that, shield gating and recasting Polarize, you should be pretty hard to kill as long as you pay attention

Polarize is only Restoring Half of my Shields for some Reason... Does it need 200% Strength To Work ? 🤔

 

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49 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I agree ,

toxin should change such that only the procs bypass shields, corpus feels like a rather weak faction as compared to grineer.

But I think the entirety of the damage system needs a rework and not just toxin.

What's about the Corpus Enemies that are Armored 🤔 like Bursas and Hyenas and Every Index Enemy ?

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Personally I like the way Toxin works now; it's nice that non-status weapons can bypass shields if they want to focus that way.  It creates some potential for build diversity which I think is welcome.

And as has been discussed, removing the innate shield bypass from Toxin damage isn't the root cause of this issue, and wouldn't truly solve it (assuming that enemies can still proc Toxin on players) while causing a lot of collateral damage.

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48 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

What's about the Corpus Enemies that are Armored 🤔 like Bursas and Hyenas and Every Index Enemy ?

I think they're still pretty squishy. Mainly because even though they're armored, their base armor is lower. So the level multiplier doesn't give them as much extra armor as the Grineer.  

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10 minutes ago, EothasianBoar said:

I think they're still pretty squishy. Mainly because even though they're armored, their base armor is lower. So the level multiplier doesn't give them as much extra armor as the Grineer.  

lower is an understatement

base armor of index enemies is 50 compared to a hvy gunners 500

corpus aren't even in the same galaxy in terms of durability of the grineer

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52 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

What about them ?

They are Both Shielded and Armored... The Meta isn't particularly effective against this specific Combination... 😭

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Personally I like the way Toxin works now; it's nice that non-status weapons can bypass shields if they want to focus that way.  It creates some potential for build diversity which I think is welcome

Does it ? 

Some times I feel like that word gets thrown around in situations where it doesn't actually Apply. 🤔

5 minutes ago, EothasianBoar said:

I think they're still pretty squishy. Mainly because even though they're armored, their base armor is lower. So the level multiplier doesn't give them as much extra armor as the Grineer.  

Not from my Experience....

Infact I ever have a Rivened Hystrix that simultaneously Procs both Viral and Toxin... A Rare Combination... It's good... But there's obviously Still Abit of Tankiness in these Enemies...

Just now, ReddyDisco said:

 

corpus aren't even in the same galaxy in terms of durability of the grineer

They are.... Atleast the Armored ones are... 

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48 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

it's nice that non-status weapons can bypass shields if they want to focus that way.

This is actually a good point as I have builds that are just pure Toxin, sometimes a bit of radiation for robotics but they tend to die before shields get turned off.

Except Sisters... Hmm... I guess bosses are kind of an exception. 

Edited by DaMasque
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I always wondered about why some enemies have guaranteed status damage even when their attacks don't have guaranteed status chance procs. Captain Kirk GIF by Star Trek

Regarding the Toxic Ancients, it's more about the surprise I feel when I die. I'm angry at Infested Ospreys that still create (pre-rework) gas clouds that deal toxic damage and any additional status procs.

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59 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

They are Both Shielded and Armored... The Meta isn't particularly effective against this specific Combination... 😭

I think you fail to understand that the objective is to shift the meta from toxin to something else. If toxin was not ideal against them in the first place you wouldn't be using it anyway.

I also don't think I ran toxin weapons for index , it was usually radiation or corrosive though it has been a while since I went there.

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54 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Come on, Lutesque, this seems needlessly dismissive.  If you have a genuine critique, put it forward and we can discuss it.

I wasn't being Dismissive... I genuinely am curious if Toxin by passing shield increases build diversity... Because I just don't see it.... Hence I assumed you actually might have been meaning to use a different term.

56 minutes ago, DaMasque said:

Except Sisters... Hmm... I guess bosses are kind of an exception. 

Warframe has alot of those....

 

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