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Why does everybody hate hydroid?


(PSN)Reaper330011

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7 hours ago, Tsoe said:

about the 60% chance 120¨that's wut he need

 

60% chance to spawn 1 tentacle on slam atack  -_-  not like we can really spam slam atack

 

and the tentacle itself , without pillefring swarm that should be innated ; his 4 is just a weird CC

Rending crane does a ground slam on every other attack of the basic combo. Tempo Royale does ground slam every fourth hit of basic combo, every second hit of forward block and every hit of block combo. 

With decent attack speed you are spamming ground slams on enemies that are already grouped up from exotic hunt. 

His passive works well with hunt but you have to go out of your way to make Hydroid decent because his kit is so outdated. 

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I mean, Hydroid obviously isn't trash, but he is an old frame and everything he can do can be done better by other frames, who will probably also be doing other cool stuff at the same time.

Like, on paper, it looks like Hydroid is going to be this roaming puddle of destruction and CC, but is doesn't really play out like that.  Being a puddle is unsustainable (can't even collect energy orbs as a puddle), moving as a puddle is slow (even when using your 2, which is even more unsustainable), and so you're left with this set of abilities that don't synergize.  And if you want his abilities to be genuinely impactful, each one needs an Augment.  So at present, Hydroid is a frame with some low-to-mid tier CC, and his saving grace is that with an augment he's one of only two "Loot on Death" frames, though Khora has a leg up on him because she's incredibly deadly while Hydroid is not.

I love Hydroid, but he's been relegated to being a frame you play either because you just like Hydroid or because you don't want to play Khora; those are his use cases, which is unfortunate.

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22 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Rending crane does a ground slam on every other attack of the basic combo. Tempo Royale does ground slam every fourth hit of basic combo, every second hit of forward block and every hit of block combo. 

With decent attack speed you are spamming ground slams on enemies that are already grouped up from exotic hunt. 

His passive works well with hunt but you have to go out of your way to make Hydroid decent because his kit is so outdated. 

Just adding on, Crushing Ruin is also a way to reliably proc slams and there are lots of good hammers.

There are plenty of problems kit, including his passive, but being able to proc it reliably isn't the issue. Like you said, his kit is just outdated so you have to work extra hard to get the most out of it. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Just adding on, Crushing Ruin is also a way to reliably proc slams and there are lots of good hammers.

There are plenty of problems kit, including his passive, but being able to proc it reliably isn't the issue. Like you said, his kit is just outdated so you have to work extra hard to get the most out of it. 

 

I always forget about hammers because I'm a sucker for slash. 

I always liked Hydroid, I just though he looked cool so he was the first prime I got.

He's one of those frames that you have to just work with what you're given though. I mainly just use his 1 and 2 with augments. In tight spaces his 1 ragdolls guys up against walls then you can group with hunt and cast 2 to slam them into a corner then melee to finish them off. It's kind of weird, clunky and hard to explain but once you get the timing and rotation down you can pretty much camp a small spot forever if you have a good flow of enemies. 

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I can’t help but feel that in the realm of expectation set by demigod power and the pervading idea of “Why would I use this inefficient thing instead of this efficient thing”, Hydroid, like many other things in this game, suffers from Uselessness syndrome.

With such a strong logical argument of Efficiency in favour of gatekeeping options, sometimes things will fall to the wayside, and as a result there’s simply a lot less options to pick from, and then there’s a desire for the game to add more choices that caters to the Efficiency argument.

And then DE adds something like Yareli. Whoops, what a misstep on their part 😋. Maybe Hydroid can be made better than her (read: efficient)

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11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I wish I knew what he was like back then.... Because I'm really not fond of OverDriver and Photon Strike 😤

I just found him completely outclassed by other bubble frames. Also, back then, Vauban had the ability to produce a bounce pad so enemies and allies would walk over and get shot up into the air. I hated Vauban before his rework despite wanting to like him because he has my favorite aesthetic out of everyone (just looks like a guy in armor).

There is this if you are willing to watch a video on Vauban before his recent rework.

 

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42 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

What syndrome?

 

Uselessness Syndrome (US). A common affliction of mods, weapons, Arcanes, pets, Schools, Warframes, game mechanics, k-drives, 🤔 my off-the-top-of-my-head list is tapering off, but I’m certain there’s still things to list as Useless.

US is a disease commonly associated with (but not limited to) chasing efficiency over playing the game. It’s perpetually with us and is a part of everything we do, like the common cold virus, but sometimes it flares up so much that the effects of it spills out of us and into forums where we start trying to convince other people that a thing is useless, don’t bother wasting your time before you’ve even tried it, let me save you hours of grind because you’re not going to have fun using this inefficient thing, it’s in your best interest that you don’t bother trying this thing because it’s objectively not worth the effort and DE really should change it to be better.

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They're is always going to be a frame that people over exaggerate about. I think it's nice to have a frame like Hydroid that doesn't just play the game for you at the press of a button. 

I use Hydroid for fun, I'm not always chasing the meta, therefore it's irrelevant what's he's "best" at. He's viable in all content, and that's all a frame needs to be.

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Hydroid is the current rock bottom of the foodchain. There are other frames that are exceptionnally niches and overall underwhelming for what they do, but Hydroid is at a point where everything it provides is either extremly outshadowed, dysfunctionnal or impactless.

He was already pretty underwheling at its releaesd, used for camping and could not handle scalling. Lots of players made their first materials with it, now with steel path bonuses it is not even a good idea using him to farm materials and his ultimate is one of the worst loot enhancement thing you can use.

Then there is the rest of his kit, every one of its non ultimat abilities is meh, it's warframe there are thing you can do but ultimately it is meh and on a defensive PoV the frame doesn't bring anything. It is so far behind that even using helminth doesn't bring anything potentially meaningfull in current metagame.

That said, it is not the worst frame to roam around with at very low mr in the regular starchart, far from the best either but it's ok for very new accounts/players who don't have mods or reactors, it has some beef.

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20 hours ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Up to level 80 (for me) he can destroy.

above that he struggles.

With 250 power strength, pulling enemies into the puddle and then casting tentacles from the puddle with a full charge takes absolutely forever to kill grineer even at lower levels than that.  When I say forever though, I'm comparing that to how fast I could kill the enemies with a hundred other things.  We might have a different frame of reference for kill speed, no shots intended there.  

I invested 5 forma into him.  I've tried several different builds, including higher PS.  He just does not work well enough for my taste.  

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il y a 7 minutes, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan a dit :

With 250 power strength, pulling enemies into the puddle and then casting tentacles from the puddle with a full charge takes absolutely forever to kill grineer even at lower levels than that.  When I say forever though, I'm comparing that to how fast I could kill the enemies with a hundred other things.  We might have a different frame of reference for kill speed, no shots intended there.  

I invested 5 forma into him.  I've tried several different builds, including higher PS.  He just does not work well enough for my taste.  

Hydroid Corroding Barrage (with less that 200% power strength) can kill level 180 Heavy gunners because of its corrosive status effect. Tentacles will do magnetic and raw damage, taht can help, but an armor reduction will be necessary to kill Grineers.

It's not the best way to kill enemies whith Hydroid, I think. It's much better to use his abilities as CC and status shower and for protection.

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4 minutes ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

Hydroid Corroding Barrage (with less that 200% power strength) can kill level 180 Heavy gunners because of its corrosive status effect. Tentacles will do magnetic and raw damage, taht can help, but an armor reduction will be necessary to kill Grineers.

It's not the best way to kill enemies whith Hydroid, I think. It's much better to use his abilities as CC and status shower and for protection.

That's the rub, then.  I think most augments are bandaids and should have just been ability reworks.  If an ability isn't useful without the augment, it's not a good ability.

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il y a 43 minutes, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan a dit :

That's the rub, then.  I think most augments are bandaids and should have just been ability reworks.  If an ability isn't useful without the augment, it's not a good ability.

I understand and I partially agree with you. Some augment mods change the ability mechanics, other are just a kind of rework the ability needed to be more efficient, but sometimes it's interesting to be able to choose between two possibilities.

With Hydroid corrosive status is nice against Grineer, but it's not useful against Corpus. Without augment Tempest Barrage does impact damage, which is nice against Corpus and, in addition, this ability can destroy nullifier Bubbles. The advantage of some augment mods is that they can change the damage type (or status) the ability does, and it's interesting to adapt the ability to a different faction.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

With 250 power strength, pulling enemies into the puddle and then casting tentacles from the puddle with a full charge takes absolutely forever to kill grineer even at lower levels than that.  When I say forever though, I'm comparing that to how fast I could kill the enemies with a hundred other things.  We might have a different frame of reference for kill speed, no shots intended there.  

I invested 5 forma into him.  I've tried several different builds, including higher PS.  He just does not work well enough for my taste.  

The scaling damage from undertow isn't that bad and can kill a group, or do a lot of damage in decent time. If you get impatient, you can hop out and just melee the group to death. Casting tentacle swarm while in undertow is only for additional CC. Hydroid can make quick work of a group, but you actually have to gather the group, CC them and use weapons. He has the same access to OP weapons as any other frame, so I don't know why people are having such problems killing. 

The problem is that players really just don't want to think too much or when using a frame. Yes, there are other frames that can press a button and simply waltz into a room of enemies killing indiscriminately, but I think that's a flaw with the game, and not a criticism of Hydroid. 

Hydroid has great defensive moves, he can CC, and he has scaling damage. 

Personally, I think more frames should be designed with Hydroids level of power. While I understand that many of you love being OP, it's nice to have at least a few frames that take some skill and forethought to use.

When I say skill, I don't mean twitch reactions, I'm talking about knowing when to use his abilities. The timer on his abilities are there to force you to anticipate your next move, not just be a button to turn off A.I. Undertow is a great defensive ability that allows you to reassess the situation, limited by energy drain and taking you out of combat. That's well designed IMO. It doesn't need to be 95% damage reduction without a drawback to be good. Tidal surge is a defensive/mobility move. It can get you out of a tough spot or allow you to ambush a small group of enemies, moving from engagement to engagement without taking damage. 

I enjoy playing Hydroid because he feels more engaging.  I hate some of the rework ideas that are like "give him an exalted cannon that kills everything. Then he'll be good". No, play another nuke frame. 

not every frame needs to be designed for highspeed efficiency farming. Being the "best" at something in this game usually just means brokenly OP anyway. He's fine where he's at (minus a few tweaks of course), although it's understandable why he won't be everyone's favorite. 

 

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10 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I can do that without Hydroid.  That's the problem.

Got a point there. Bring a melee weapon that solves all the problems in a mission on its own (and maybe a whole lot of survival to let the melee weapon solve all the problems without fear of getting shot to pieces), and it’s kind of “Gonna choose whether death by drowning or death by blending”. Personal preference without reliance on the ability itself

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32 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

The scaling damage from undertow isn't that bad and can kill a group, or do a lot of damage in decent time. If you get impatient, you can hop out and just melee the group to death. Casting tentacle swarm while in undertow is only for additional CC. Hydroid can make quick work of a group, but you actually have to gather the group, CC them and use weapons. He has the same access to OP weapons as any other frame, so I don't know why people are having such problems killing. 

The problem is that players really just don't want to think too much or when using a frame. Yes, there are other frames that can press a button and simply waltz into a room of enemies killing indiscriminately, but I think that's a flaw with the game, and not a criticism of Hydroid. 

Hydroid has great defensive moves, he can CC, and he has scaling damage. 

Personally, I think more frames should be designed with Hydroids level of power. While I understand that many of you love being OP, it's nice to have at least a few frames that take some skill and forethought to use.

When I say skill, I don't mean twitch reactions, I'm talking about knowing when to use his abilities. The timer on his abilities are there to force you to anticipate your next move, not just be a button to turn off A.I. Undertow is a great defensive ability that allows you to reassess the situation, limited by energy drain and taking you out of combat. That's well designed IMO. It doesn't need to be 95% damage reduction without a drawback to be good. Tidal surge is a defensive/mobility move. It can get you out of a tough spot or allow you to ambush a small group of enemies, moving from engagement to engagement without taking damage. 

I enjoy playing Hydroid because he feels more engaging.  I hate some of the rework ideas that are like "give him an exalted cannon that kills everything. Then he'll be good". No, play another nuke frame. 

not every frame needs to be designed for highspeed efficiency farming. Being the "best" at something in this game usually just means brokenly OP anyway. He's fine where he's at (minus a few tweaks of course), although it's understandable why he won't be everyone's favorite. 

 


everything this guy said.

This is the problem.

 

everybody who’s played warframe is getting used to not thinking about anything, hitting one button and getting everything done….

hydroid can cover anything in the game, and do it extremely efficiently if you just use him right.

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:


everything this guy said.

This is the problem.

 

everybody who’s played warframe is getting used to not thinking about anything, hitting one button and getting everything done….

hydroid can cover anything in the game, and do it extremely efficiently if you just use him right.

His tentacles are clunky.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

everybody who’s played warframe is getting used to not thinking about anything, hitting one button and getting everything done….

hydroid can cover anything in the game, and do it extremely efficiently if you just use him right.

You're talking about using a bandaid mod to take a useless ability and give it armor strip, then having to use that bandaided armor strip so that the mediocre damage on his AFK puddle and janky tentacles with spotty AI actually do usable damage and then calling it "efficient" and saying that it's more thoughtful gameplay.

Hard pass lol.

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37 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Guys, did you know that if you prime enemies with Viral and Fire and then use Yareli's Sea Snares to CC enemies and then go around one by one and stand next to them with Aqua Blades you can totally kill like, anything?  She's a really great frame guys.  Just gotta think about it.

I see what you did there... 😝

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