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Proposal to improve the gaming experience


NonnoNervo
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I have a proposal to make, since when you do missions, more often than willing, the players who are the host leave the group and the migration of the host creates inconvenience to the rest of the group, I would propose to make sure that this does not happens. .. is there a chance to remove this host migration thing?

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9 минут назад, NonnoNervo сказал:

I have a proposal to make, since when you do missions, more often than willing, the players who are the host leave the group and the migration of the host creates inconvenience to the rest of the group, I would propose to make sure that this does not happens. .. is there a chance to remove this host migration thing?

sure, you can buy and maintain some dedicated servers for DE

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if people want to leave, you can't force them to stay. deliberate host migrations will always be a thing, but accidental ones... those are tricky to solve, outside of dedicated servers,. and those aren't flawless either.

everyone hates host migrations, but they're basically a part of the game at this point, and DE likely haven't found a viable solution to this either.

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3 часа назад, Berzerkules сказал:

Can we just get tencent to pay. Pretty sure they can afford it.

if they could or wanted, they would have contributed long ago at least in improving the servers so we won't be limited in the number of rivens / ignore list entries

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5 hours ago, NonnoNervo said:

I have a proposal to make, since when you do missions, more often than willing, the players who are the host leave the group and the migration of the host creates inconvenience to the rest of the group, I would propose to make sure that this does not happens. .. is there a chance to remove this host migration thing?

That's not a proposal , that's a request.

In order to meet this request DE would need to change their whole game architecture from P2P to a dedicated server based one.

Dedicated servers cost money for maintenance and upkeep. 

I personally wouldn't mind paying a (minor) subscription , but most of the f2p players would abandon ship.

They could also set up multi redundancy P2P but this will also not guarantee that host migrations won't happen , and could lead to their own syncing issues.

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15 минут назад, 73yearsold сказал:

Don’t they have enough money at this point?

В 04.08.2021 в 20:32, [DE]Megan сказал:

The limit of players you can choose to /ignore is now capped at 100. When adding a new ignored user, the older ignored user will be prompted for removal if already at 100. The count and cap has been added to the ‘Manage Ignore List’ screen for ease of use. This decision was made after a performance issue was revealed and a cap must now be added to avoid further issues.

  • Upon login, those with 100+ ignored players on their list will be culled down to 100 most-recently-added entries.

apparently they have no money, since they are forced to take these measures

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"Just remove them" isn't even much of a suggestion let alone a proposal. The system could likely be improved and have more failsafes put in place. But outright removing/preventing them will never happen as dedicated servers would be a waste of time and resources. Plus they would introduce entirely new problems into the mix and many of which may just make the experience worse for far more people than an occasional failed host migration does.

 

49 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

I still not understand why the game doesnt have dedicated servers. Even small games like paladins have

A competitive shooter with 10-20 minute long matches and a co-op looter shooter with most sessions lasting less than 5 minutes are not the same thing.

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8 minutes ago, trst said:

A competitive shooter with 10-20 minute long matches and a co-op looter shooter with most sessions lasting less than 5 minutes are not the same thing.

^^This^^

Which is exactly why dedicated servers likely will never happen. Just a waste of money that would better allocated elsewhere when the vast majority of players just try to finish missions as quickly as possible vs doing any real form of an endurance run.

Edited by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim
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6 hours ago, trst said:

A competitive shooter with 10-20 minute long matches and a co-op looter shooter with most sessions lasting less than 5 minutes are not the same thing.

in 2021? looking the other games? even with very small companies? yea that answer is very weak, was acceptable 3 or 4 years ago, but right now i dont think so.

Being honest the tennocon relay server test, in my opinion was for dedicated servers. And more with mobiles, you need a host with stable conection and good fps, otherswise the experience its just bad.

I trust in DE devs, they show us sometimes they are capable to do stuff like the biggest companies in the scene with a very small team, and again i still not understeand how in 2021 my host have 5mbs upload, or even worse 3g conection and 30 fps.

They can make something hybrid, for small and short missions p2p conections like now (with a better optimization) and for bigger stuff like open world dedicated server. About timers 2 waves of interception, literally an daily alert of steel path or sorties is flat 9-10 min, railjack missions are 8-10 min, and specially here railjack needs so bad dedicated servers

Also i still not understeand why operator and archwing are client side

 

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7 hours ago, 73yearsold said:

Don’t they have enough money at this point?

Having the money and wanting to spend the money are two very different things. If they don't expect to see a return on the investment, it's unlikely they'd be willing to do so.

And I suspect there would have to be a lot of work to completely rewrite all the netcode.

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6 hours ago, (PSN)iuvenilis said:

Having the money and wanting to spend the money are two very different things. If they don't expect to see a return on the investment, it's unlikely they'd be willing to do so.

And I suspect there would have to be a lot of work to completely rewrite all the netcode.

This. They cannot do it because it is a significant investment without a convincing increase in future revenue. Remember that DE is a wholly own subsidiary - their owners paid good money for them and did so expecting them to keep turning in good profits.

Personally, I would prefer DE to keep up the profit margin and use it to bargain for continued design autonomy. It would be too easy for their owners to take that away if their profit margin plunges due to a move towards dedicated servers.

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A dedicated environment needs:

- a datacenter (with security features like e.g. admission control, air conditioning, redundancy (which can be super, super expensive, depending on your SLA) 
- rackspace/racks
- servers, a lot of them
- power (yeah, that also costs a lot)
- bandwidth
- security
- switches
- people who administrate the environment
- maintenance contracts, people who maintain the environment physically etc.

I probably forgot a lot of things, but just look up what a server costs and you can see that this is a very expensive endeavour. 

So how are small companies/games like Paladin doing it, you asked? You need to think what your workers are doing once the core game is finished:

In competitive shooters your people are maintaining the game environment, like the dedicated environment. 

In coop games you need to develop new content all the time. 

So how is WoW doing it? Well, if people pay you 15 bucks per month in addition to the storefront, plus expansions, plus game services, you will find a lot of money that you can use for everything. I really wish to know how much money people are putting into their Warframe account per year, but if our clan is any indicator, people buying a Prime Access is very, very rare and some people brag about "how they never put any money into warframe" and laugh about those that do. 

But I don't have the numbers. If I had, I could tell you more about why they are not setting themselves up for a dedicated environment. One reason for sure is that people are econimical/greedy and they want to keep the cash flow like it is and not sacrifice 100k a month at least just to avoid host migrations.
 

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2 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

A dedicated environment needs:

- a datacenter (with security features like e.g. admission control, air conditioning, redundancy (which can be super, super expensive, depending on your SLA) 
- rackspace/racks
- servers, a lot of them
- power (yeah, that also costs a lot)
- bandwidth
- security
- switches
- people who administrate the environment
- maintenance contracts, people who maintain the environment physically etc.

I probably forgot a lot of things, but just look up what a server costs and you can see that this is a very expensive endeavour. 

So how are small companies/games like Paladin doing it, you asked? You need to think what your workers are doing once the core game is finished:

In competitive shooters your people are maintaining the game environment, like the dedicated environment. 

In coop games you need to develop new content all the time. 

So how is WoW doing it? Well, if people pay you 15 bucks per month in addition to the storefront, plus expansions, plus game services, you will find a lot of money that you can use for everything. I really wish to know how much money people are putting into their Warframe account per year, but if our clan is any indicator, people buying a Prime Access is very, very rare and some people brag about "how they never put any money into warframe" and laugh about those that do. 

But I don't have the numbers. If I had, I could tell you more about why they are not setting themselves up for a dedicated environment. One reason for sure is that people are econimical/greedy and they want to keep the cash flow like it is and not sacrifice 100k a month at least just to avoid host migrations.
 

They dont need to own any of that though. There are plenty of services out there that solves all of that. And it isnt that costly either since the countries they are located in for the most part give grants either to the provider or those that use the provider. This because it opens up job opportunities for the countries, which in turn increases living comfort, more taxes and so on.

WoW is also a bad example since there are F2P games out there that use dedicated servers, that arent even MMO's. Those are the games you should look at since they dont need to run a persistant version of the world 24/7 like WoW. You should likely look at Path of Exile as the closest option, which runs on dedicated servers even when you play solo, so everyone is hosted by their servers at all times. A game that is nearly pure PvE just like WF and relies on constant content updates each year, with massive new systems each few months. And if GGG can do it there is little reason why DE cant.

And WF wouldnt even need that type of server, it could run on something similar like Destiny 2, a hybrid dedicated environment that removes the risk of host migration failures by having a dedicated "back up" that jumps into effect if a host leaves. Which makes things like "host migration in progress" a thing of the past since it happens without impacting the player. In addition to this, solo play would still work like now.

I am however not saying WF needs it, it would be nice, but I can always avoid people and play solo instead of ending up with mr potato-rig and fishing line + plastic cup internet connection. The reasons you make up however are silly, since they've been proven wrong by other games with similar monetization ideas to WF.

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On 2021-10-14 at 9:50 AM, Berzerkules said:

Can we just get tencent to pay. Pretty sure they can afford it.

Oh, they almost certainly could, but the same problem still applies.

If Warframe wasn't making enough money to make the cost offset worth it before, then it'd make Warframe less or not profitable for Tencent if they implemented it. In all likelihood Tencent only bought Warframe because it was a money printer, an easy way to get a steady income stream with little to no work themselves and only the up-front payment.

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