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Sentient Adaptation should affect/reduce the effectiveness of Status Procs


Duality52
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Thanks to Nidus Prime Access, Sentients are rendered vulnerable to Status procs, making much more bearable and a bit more interesting to fight. However, this comes as an offset of how easy it is to kill the Sentients with just Slash/Viral procs. Sentients shouldn't be a complete pushover due to this.

Some suggestions would be to: 

  • Cap the Status procs to 4 or 6 procs similar to Kuva Guardians.
  • Status procs on Sentients last 25-50% shorter.
  • Sentient adaptation reduce the status proc effectiveness by 70%. Applies to the total and current of status proc stacks rather than individual stacks.
  • Have a new Sentient type in the New War that could create an enemy tether to us and use an ability to transfer its current Status procs onto the player. Attack a particular part of the ability like an energy orb generated will instead stun the Sentient.

The Tenno's nemesis shouldn't be a one and done with Viral/Slash, but these suggestions would also still have Status procs to have an effect on Sentients rather than to be completely ineffective at all. 

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Better to address the root problem, which is Viral being too effective.   

But yeah, it's much easier to imagine DE applying another arbitrary bandaid to a specific enemy type.

In which case I think it makes more sense to increase sentient hp, rather than target all status procs.

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I was actually really surprised to see my RG kitgun shreds through Sentients. While it's definitely preferable to how it was before (an obnoxiously overdrawn fight in operator form) it's definitely a bit too easy now. They're even less threatening than they were before, and before they were more of a headache than a threat unless if you were still using Mote.

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@Duality52

You do realise a universal Nerf to Status is going to affect the weapons that aren't contributing to the Problem Right ?

In other words my Zakti would suddeny become useless because you're afraid the Kuva Chakkhur might be too powerful....

I don't like Universal Nerfs to things.... 

Besides Sentients still have their Health Gates and Adaptation.... Quite frankly alil Status Vulnerability would be a nice change of Pace....

 

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14 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Better to address the root problem, which is Viral being too effective. 

I wouldn't mind if Viral and Slash procs get toned down as they are complete outliers to the damage system, not to mention how one-sided it is for most missions in the game. It would be tough to change/buff other damage types (i.e Blast and Magnetic), as the damage system in Warframe is incredibly over-bloated.

Problem is that DE is unlikely to change it as a result of heavy community backlash. There are people (me and several others in the Community such as Reddit and the Forums) agree that the fundamentals of the damage system need to be reworked. There are and will be people who not only fully embraced the power creep, but will defend against any meaningful changes to defend what kind of power they embraced.

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10 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

I wouldn't mind if Viral and Slash procs get toned down as they are complete outliers to the damage system, not to mention how one-sided it is for most missions in the game. It would be tough to change/buff other damage types (i.e Blast and Magnetic), as the damage system in Warframe is incredibly over-bloated.

Problem is that DE is unlikely to change it as a result of heavy community backlash. There are people (me and several others in the Community such as Reddit and the Forums) agree that the fundamentals of the damage system need to be reworked. There are and will be people who not only fully embraced the power creep, but will defend against any meaningful changes to defend what kind of power they embraced.

You’re not one of the ones embracing the power creep?

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42 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Wasn't sentients 90% damage reduction adaptation still a thing?

It still is...  But I'm guessing it works the same way for them as it does for us.... It can only Build up to 90% for one or two damage type.... The other damage Types "Leak Through" with Less Resistance.

5 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

I wouldn't mind if Viral and Slash procs get toned down as they are complete outliers to the damage system, not to mention how one-sided it is for most missions in the game. It would be tough to change/buff other damage types (i.e Blast and Magnetic), as the damage system in Warframe is incredibly over-bloated

If that's the case... Would you be open to the idea of exactly one Damage Type and only one damage for the whole game ? 😁

7 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

 

Problem is that DE is unlikely to change it as a result of heavy community backlash.

I was about to say something about my Forma investment since I'f Viral/Slash is going to just Suddenly become rubbish then it would cost a crap ton of Forma to correct the issue.... But I resisted the urge.... Until Now... 😭

10 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

There are people (me and several others in the Community such as Reddit and the Forums) agree that the fundamentals of the damage system need to be reworked. There are and will be people who not only fully embraced the power creep, but will defend against any meaningful changes to defend what kind of power they embraced.

I'm not fond of the Multi-Damage Type design concept so I definitely won't miss that if you removed it... That being said... We've all invested alot of Forma into this junk ... Would you be willing to just accept a sudden change without being compensated ?

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1 hour ago, Duality52 said:

I wouldn't mind if Viral and Slash procs get toned down as they are complete outliers to the damage system

Those outliers are the only reason that several weapons are viable late game though.  Nerfing damage types like that would only push a tighter meta for what weapons are good at high levels.  I can actually kill things in SP (though still kinda slowly) with a Dera Vandal and a Braton Prime and that is entirely due to Viral and Slash procs.  Nerfing those damage types will nerf several status dependent weapons into being completely useless. 

Not to mention the fact that certain enemies are insanely hard to kill without those procs.  Demos in any higher level Disruption runs are extremely fast, turn off abilities, are immune to nearly everything, and have insane DR.  There are already only a handful of ways you can reliably kill a Demo in SP or an endurance run, and the amount of ways you can do that narrow considerably without Viral.  Infested Demos are already immune to Viral and if it weren't for the fact that the Infested faction is made out of wet paper, those demos would be extremely problematic.

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17 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

How about we wait to see how New War plays before complaining?

Because the New War is highly anticipated; if it drops and the Warframe-using missions consist of us gibbing Sentients as easily as we do Heavy Gunners, it'll be rather a damp squib. 😕

Fighting Sentients was about preparation. Take the right loadout and you could smush them quickly even on Steel Path. Pick the wrong tools and they were bullet sponges.

After reading the patch notes, I popped to Plato on the Star Chart, and discovered my Sentinel could melt the Sentients with Verglas in a couple of seconds, while I just hopped around in circles. Then I went there on Steel Path... and slaughtered them with Tenora Prime -- it wasn't even necessary to remove their Damage Adaptation. They are barely tankier than Heavy Gunners now.

This supposedly-formidable foe now looks kinda pathetic, and I find it sad.

I get what the plan is -- random squads in New War will include players who overestimated their gear. Put four such players in the same squad, and the Sentients would become as tedious as the Wolf of Saturn Six *could* be. Those players would conclude the event is just a load of unfun bullet-sponges, and for sure that wouldn't be good.

I see the problem the devs are seeing... but IMHO, this is the wrong solution. Better options would be:

  • devise a lore explanation that the Sentients in the New War missions have been sabotaged to make them vulnerable to Status effects

How, why and by whom might or might not be known at the start of the New War, and I can offhand think of at least four NPCs who could be responsible.

Do it like this, and the New War would be an enjoyable experience for less-advanced players. Job done.

Outside the New War, players who have put in the legwork to build viable Sentient-stomping loadouts would continue to appreciate the fruits of their labours. Players first encountering Sentinents and finding them a bit chewy would be motivated to discover and farm loadouts and builds which are effective against them.

Isn't that sort of thing what Warframe is largely about?

Alternatively...

  • at the start of the New War experience, provide the player with an Aura Mod which allows one stack of Status to be applied to Sentient enemies

A full squad with this Mod would be able to apply four stacks of Status, and look how much difference that made to Kuva Liches! It could also be brought back into the main game or not at the player's discretion.

Give the Mod negative 9 Drain so it doesn't trash Steel Charge builds, and give it universal Polarity so nobody has to farm multiple Aura Formas to slot it on whichever Warframes they want to try.

Who could provide such a Mod?

Alad V would be an obvious candidate to me; he's a genius in robotics, who was even able to develop a strain of Infestation which could infect robotic units, his unintended alliance with the Sentients will have given him ample opportunity to study them on Jupiter, and he's somewhat under their thumb so he'd certainly like them gone. Providing the Tenno with a tool which helps them against Sentients but doesn't do anything against Corpus would fit both his objectives and his established capabilities. Call it "Amalgam Affliction" or something.

Little Duck would be another candidate, due to her close association with the Quills, and by extension the Unum. There's lore to back that up.

Solutions like this would make the New War accessible, and still let Sentients be special in the main game.

Edited by OmegaVoid
typo.
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19 hours ago, OmegaVoid said:

Players first encountering Sentinents and finding them a bit chewy would be motivated to discover and farm loadouts and builds which are effective against them

I can tell you that I certainly will not find it motivating to give up my favourite guns just because you and players like you are slaves to the META...

19 hours ago, OmegaVoid said:

 

Isn't that sort of thing what Warframe is largely about?

Nope....

Warframe is about DEM GOODIES !!!.... 

 

 

Okay so Last night I did a Couple Veil Runs and had to Purge the Sentient Ship... And I can honestly say that you guys are getting Bent out of Shape over nothing.... I hit those Sentients with both my Corrosive and Viral Weapons.... Yes their initial Response is they take a crap ton of Damage after the first few Procs but once you hit Their 4th Health Gate they do resist pretty damn hard before they finally go down.... Which is unlike the other enemies in the game that only die Faster once their health gets that low....

Maybe it's time to put the DPS Calculator Away and experiment with other weapons for a change.... Like really Experience them.... The Look, Sound and Feel....

 

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19 hours ago, OmegaVoid said:

if it drops and the Warframe-using missions consist of us gibbing Sentients as easily as we do Heavy Gunners, it'll be rather a damp squib. 😕

It didn't seem to be that way on Scarlet Spear when they introduced several new Sentient types, including literal fodder types that have absolutely zero resistances, and elite types that have no resistances, only targeted invulnerability where you destroy objects on them to turn them vulnerable (just like the Glass enemies).

The logic is that while the Sentients in regular missions are currently incredibly rare, only appearing once in many mission types, and they're genuinely supposed to be a kind of mid-boss enemy... the New War will have Sentients everywhere, a whole quest dedicated to them.

Now, in many games, bosses come back as mid-bosses and mid-bosses become more like standard elite enemies as you progress through the game, but that's because those games have a scaling based upon enemies with a capped level of power. Warframe approaches it the other way, where enemies themselves can just scale up linearly with the level, so fodder remains fodder by comparison to the elite units and mid-bosses stay mid-bosses.

So, I don't doubt that many players could take on thirty or so sentients in a single mission, because Scarlet Spear shows we're able to kill Sentients fairly well, but how about a mission that's entirely made up of a composition of Brachiolists, Aerolyst, Battalysts, Conculysts, Ortholysts, Summulysts, Mimics and Symbolists? Where the least threatening (the Brachiolyst) scales to some fairly high damage if you don't take it down first.

Add to that, DE are introducing some new Sentients that will replace the Battalysts and Conculysts as the top unit, as they previewed at Tennocon.

I think the enemies will be the least of our worries in terms of 'damp squib' reception of The New War ^^

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