Prime Resurgence Dev Workshop & FAQ

[Stuach]

Give it 2 years or less...  Plat will not be anywhere, Warframe market will be cut out...  It is just the beginning.  This is nothing more than a test run to see how many players will bail...

 

[TheLexiConArtist]

31 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I mean this entirely as constructive criticism, but I agree with the gist of this in regards to dev workshops. 

I wouldn't even mind if they were more accurately named, but I think from a critical analysis viewpoint, calling them "dev workshops", gives players a false expectation. 

If they instead announced it as "Sneak Peak", and offered it up for "minor technical critiques as we are too far along to change anything big", I think people would have a way different expectation. 

Instead, people spend weeks or months giving incredibly long and detailed feedback, and even if DE does think they had some really good ideas, when these dev workshops are announced, the upcoming content or changes are usually way past the development stage, they are in the "finishing touches" stage. 

So ask us for finishing touches, and don't confuse well meaning Tenno who waste tons of time on feedback that DE simply won't have time to implement even if they want to, at least not for the forseeable future. 

Realistic expectations is a fair perspective to consider, but let's also admit; a lot of the issue stems from the fact that we, the experienced playerbase, can still see glaring oversights, the things that fundamentally don't work or aren't tuned to a level that works even when they fundamentally can, when we finally become privy to the details.

Even if we don't realistically expect changes to be made due to the fact it's presented as "final stages, no significant alterations" information, it really wouldn't stop the dissatisfaction when we can see that something should not be immutable before the whole mess is dumped on us, especially with how long it tends to take for a fresh pass that touches fundamentals. If anything, it's worse because we don't even have vain hope that those big issues might get fixed, we know we're doomed to whatever we see.
Just look at the 'Forma QOL' in this update for example - it barely does anything useful, not touching the fundamentally outdated polarisation system, despite us observing the rot creeping in for years and giving our feedback and solution suggestions all the while.

 

TL;DR: We need 'Dev Workshops' that are presented-in-advance enough and humble enough that all feedback can be properly taken on board. The track record doesn't support only allowing for minor last-minute tweaks.

[MustyCowpoke]

@[DE]Danielle  

as far as cosmetics (armor,syandanas,etc) go will we be able to get blueprints for those too, or will we have to buy those directly with the regal aya.

[SteveCutler]

These things have always been ridiculously overpriced, and now they're upping the price even more. Oof.

[SephirothWS]

1 minute ago, MustyCowpoke said:

@[DE]Danielle  

as far as cosmetics (armor,syandanas,etc) go will we be able to get blueprints for those too, or will we have to buy those directly with the regal aya.

Sadly they'll be cash shop only as usual; I've been wanting the Edo Prime set for years, but it seems those will continue to remain elusive...

[Stuach]

3 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Realistic expectations is a fair perspective to consider, but let's also admit; a lot of the issue stems from the fact that we, the experienced playerbase, can still see glaring oversights, the things that fundamentally don't work or aren't tuned to a level that works even when they fundamentally can, when we finally become privy to the details.

Even if we don't realistically expect changes to be made due to the fact it's presented as "final stages, no significant alterations" information, it really wouldn't stop the dissatisfaction when we can see that something should not be immutable before the whole mess is dumped on us, especially with how long it tends to take for a fresh pass that touches fundamentals. If anything, it's worse because we don't even have vain hope that those big issues might get fixed, we know we're doomed to whatever we see.
Just look at the 'Forma QOL' in this update for example - it barely does anything useful, not touching the fundamentally outdated polarisation system, despite us observing the rot creeping in for years and giving our feedback and solution suggestions all the while.

 

TL;DR: We need 'Dev Workshops' that are presented-in-advance enough and humble enough that all feedback can be properly taken on board. The track record doesn't support only allowing for minor last-minute tweaks.

4 yrs or older, yes, this is a new owner/culture..   This will never be what everyone expected , this is all about tomorrow's cash. This cash grab will go down on history on how NOT to deliver content.

 

[Drachnyn]

Prime Resurgance? More like prime obfuscation, the classic f2p premium currency tactic in an attempt to make people less aware how much money they are spending.

[Raiden2.0]

Oof, i can understand that some people are disappointed or mourning about the pricing of the regal aya, as well as of the in game items (accessoiries), which can be only obtained via regal aya. It is also sort of understandable that the price in general is rising, since development costs money too, which looks like it has been forgotten by many players in general. But why is the price performance so in inbalance with the upcomming prime resurgance?

17,77€ / 19,99$ , or whatever currency of similar value for 3 regal aya seem fine at first. 

But a prime armor costs 3 regal aya, a sigil 1, and i expect a sugatra probably 2? Operator accessoiries and sentinel sets also don't have a price tag yet, but i expect called sets to have a similar pricing to the armor sets, which is unreasonable in my opinion.

The price of the previous prime vault accessoiry packs were the same as the new small regal aya set, and even included 200 platinum, which is worth around 11.99€ or round about 12~14,99$? So you were paying around 5~7 bucks for the actual accessoiries.

Platinum aside for now, it was a pack with a price tag, which has been chosen by the community and the devs together to maintain a fair price to performance value. This price performance has been completely cracked down with the new aya packs.
Player have to buy a 36,99€ / 39,99$ pack with 7 regal aya just to be able to obtain a "full prime accessoiry pack", which had originally the same price of the previously mentioned small regal aya pack in the prime vault era, now. The platinum isn't even included, which i personally could still deal with actually.


But what about a solution for this inbalance now?
I suggest to stay with the original price for the accessoiries, just excluding the platinum. It may be something not everyone would be happy with, since platinum is for many player a reason to buy these packs actually, but there are still a lot of people who just want the accessories in general without giving their whole wallets into it. So reducing the whole accessoiries of a set to a total of 3 regal aya for (17,99€ / 19,99$) seem fair to me, and probably to a lot of player as well. It is more convenient and friendly for every player than spending 36,99€ / 39,99$ for the accessoiries they want and be left with a bunch of unnecessary extra regal aya, which may stays in their inventory in the end.
Another option would be to increase the regal aya which can be obtained per pack. But in this case the whole pricing of every item would probably need to be recalculated, which causes just more problems and frustration for both devs and the player base.

It is something that has to be handled with care. So i think in regard to the pricing topic it is smarter to come up with solutions instead of complains from the commmunity. Think about that without any income from the players, many player wouldn't even be able to enjoy warframe as a free2play title today.

[Tesseract7777]

7 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Realistic expectations is a fair perspective to consider, but let's also admit; a lot of the issue stems from the fact that we, the experienced playerbase, can still see glaring oversights, the things that fundamentally don't work or aren't tuned to a level that works even when they fundamentally can, when we finally become privy to the details.

Even if we don't realistically expect changes to be made due to the fact it's presented as "final stages, no significant alterations" information, it really wouldn't stop the dissatisfaction when we can see that something should not be immutable before the whole mess is dumped on us, especially with how long it tends to take for a fresh pass that touches fundamentals. If anything, it's worse because we don't even have vain hope that those big issues might get fixed, we know we're doomed to whatever we see.
Just look at the 'Forma QOL' in this update for example - it barely does anything useful, not touching the fundamentally outdated polarisation system, despite us observing the rot creeping in for years and giving our feedback and solution suggestions all the while.

 

TL;DR: We need 'Dev Workshops' that are presented-in-advance enough and humble enough that all feedback can be properly taken on board. The track record doesn't support only allowing for minor last-minute tweaks.

I agree with you overall. 

I made a thread in General Discussion to get an idea how people feel about this. 

Personally I would prefer workshops were early enough that we really COULD workshop things collaboratively with them; early enough to make bigger tweaks if needed, when they haven't committed so far yet. 

However, if we can't get that, I would at least like more accurately named and explained workshops that don't frustrate so many well meaning Tenno who don't understand the expecttation. 

[2Peter3Nine]

On 2021-11-02 at 12:05 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

There will always be evergreen rewards that will remain in her shop after the event is over.

Didn't you say that when the event is over, Aya will no longer be obtainable?

If the shop is staying open with non-unique items for sale,
then why let Aya no-longer be obtainable when the event is over?

Farming Aya will take time regardless of whether you do it during the event or not.

People have jobs, and the more timed events there are,
the less time they will have to do things.

Some people only get maybe 1 hour a day for video games.
7 days a week, meaning 7 hours max to get the Aya needed before the next set shows up.

Meaning the only options for them are,
spend all their game time on Warframe,
or,
spend money on Warframe.

I know 3 people who have quit warframe,
because it asks for too much of their free time.

[Stuach]

7 minutes ago, Raiden2.0 said:

Oof, i can understand that some people are disappointed or mourning about the pricing of the regal aya, as well as of the in game items (accessoiries), which can be only obtained via regal aya. It is also sort of understandable that the price in general is rising, since development costs money too, which looks like it has been forgotten by many players in general. But why is the price performance so in inbalance with the upcomming prime resurgance?

17,77€ / 19,99$ , or whatever currency of similar value for 3 regal aya seem fine at first. 

But a prime armor costs 3 regal aya, a sigil 1, and i expect a sugatra probably 2? Operator accessoiries and sentinel sets also don't have a price tag yet, but i expect called sets to have a similar pricing to the armor sets, which is unreasonable in my opinion.

The price of the previous prime vault accessoiry packs were the same as the new small regal aya set, and even included 200 platinum, which is worth around 11.99€ or round about 12~14,99$? So you were paying around 5~7 bucks for the actual accessoiries.

Platinum aside for now, it was a pack with a price tag, which has been chosen by the community and the devs together to maintain a fair price to performance value. This price performance has been completely cracked down with the new aya packs.
Player have to buy a 36,99€ / 39,99$ pack with 7 regal aya just to be able to obtain a "full prime accessoiry pack", which had originally the same price of the previously mentioned small regal aya pack in the prime vault era, now. The platinum isn't even included, which i personally could still deal with actually.


But what about a solution for this inbalance now?
I suggest to stay with the original price for the accessoiries, just excluding the platinum. It may be something not everyone would be happy with, since platinum is for many player a reason to buy these packs actually, but there are still a lot of people who just want the accessories in general without giving their whole wallets into it. So reducing the whole accessoiries of a set to a total of 3 regal aya for (17,99€ / 19,99$) seem fair to me, and probably to a lot of player as well. It is more convenient and friendly for every player than spending 36,99€ / 39,99$ for the accessoiries they want and be left with a bunch of unnecessary extra regal aya, which may stays in their inventory in the end.
Another option would be to increase the regal aya which can be obtained per pack. But in this case the whole pricing of every item would probably need to be recalculated, which causes just more problems and frustration for both devs and the player base.

It is something that has to be handled with care. So i think in regard to the pricing topic it is smarter to come up with solutions instead of complains from the commmunity. Think about that without any income from the players, many player wouldn't even be able to enjoy warframe as a free2play title today.

Plat will be non existent In short time.    Let's look at what has been said...

 

New currency is NOT tradable.... 

You need the new "free"  currency for Prime relics....

 

If you buy the NEW currency. It can't be used anywhere else and you only get Endo....  Endo? Really.

 

Now new players need that Endo more than anyone.  A few of us that have played on and off for a long time, A total slap in the face.

 

I built my own clan just to have a Railjack. Now only 400 plat to buy..

 

Just watch, plat is going to be excluded completely.

[Wyrgula]

So it means that i will be paying the same amount i did on the old prime vaults for LESS!? Amazing :v
No more plat bc 2 premium currencies!? 
This "DEV Workshop" is more like of a slap in the face, 1 WEEK to gather feedback and don't even use it!? Just like the test clusters that amount into nothing.

[(PSN)TakiusPT]

Is there a problem with the Damaged Necramech Pod drop?

[(PSN)Awezumnezz13]

Yeah I don't feel like getting scammed by DE. Not to sound like a Karen but if changes aren't made to the pricing of regal Aya and/or the amount of regal Aya per purchase, I'll no longer be playing this game or supporting this company. If this is a window into where DE is going as a company and the types of decisions they want to make I refuse to support them. The blatant lack of respect for the customer and their wallet is disgusting. To charge more money for less content (old content mind you) and feel okay shipping that says alot about these people.

[PublikDomain]

26 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Prime Resurgance? More like prime obfuscation, the classic f2p premium currency tactic in an attempt to make people less aware how much money they are spending.

Primeflation.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

And then we get one dev or another on youtube literally whining that the playerbase sucks at fixing problems and that we're mean no stop asking about universal vacuum (no I will not let that go. At this point you are only denying modless univac out of spite.)

So if I seem bitter, it is because i am.

I was there when DE claimed they were leaving the hema research costs as is 'to honor those that already did the grind' even as those people were screaming that it needed to change don't use us as a shield, etc.

So again DE. What gives?

I remember unimedals being made non-universal. I remember the Hema - and by god I spent many days religiously spending an hour in ODS before doing anything else that day, to grind my way toward the cost alone - and yet, I remember also suffering the hellhole of scoring top-percentage in Pacifism Defect for the Ignis Wraith research, but not seeing a whole lot of complaint about that 'prestige and effort' item being made accessible through Baro (if you were really desperate and didn't just find a handout).

Here's one people forget too: Who remembers "Surprise, you have to pay for archweapon slots now!" No warning. Oh, but only PC got blindsided by that price-tag, consoles got to farm free slots for a while before the commensurate update landed on them. Absolutely fair and equal, right? _{It's not a BIG cost, but it's still scummy to drop that on only ONE platform without warning.}

 

Gripes like that are one thing, but bringing it back around to workshops;

I was on the ground floor of arguing for the fix of Tonkor/Simulor Metas. I see complaints about self-damage by people who can't help but shoot their feet but can't just not use those weapons.
I make my suggestions on limiting the fatality, perhaps. I see a workshop where the response to the whinging is to remove self-damage wholesale. I cringe, remembering the hard fight against the brainless AOE.
I try, and try to remind the devs of Tonkor Meta and why it happened. I point out the many alternatives, weigh pros and cons, observe how it's actually entirely possible to not stare down the barrel of a rocket launcher when pulling the trigger if you try. The response; 'we hear you about Tonkor Meta, so we're still not changing our no-risk explosive direction, but adding falloff'. Which solved nothing. Using them with caution was actually made more inconvenient since you have to worry about falloff, so people just slot PSF and ignore the mild annoyance 'limiting factor' of knockback, shooting at their feet.

And now we see "AOEs are too easily dominant, so we can't let them use things like the damage buff of Galv. Aptitude!" History repeated because the warnings given in the workshop, that the idea was fundamentally flawed, were not heeded.
 

Maybe I seem bitter, but it's because I don't want to be in a position where I so often have to think, 'I told you so' after giving feedback for which we were asked.

[Tesseract7777]

Did you copy/paste this from word or something. 

Because on the dark theme this hurts my eyes so much I can't read it. 

[vanaukas]

good lord, my photosensitive gamer™ eyes!!!

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, iPathos said:

It appears they intend to take in feedback about this, but the same was said about the aforementioned holokeys (as well as Yareli and the Ghoulsaw/Butcher's Revelry) - we saw how that went. 🤐

We could backpedal all the way back to Kuva Fortress Survival rewarding Kuva and how that went. You could go back years and these threads all function the same. I know the feedback posted won't change much, but it does feel good to atleast share how you feel and sometimes it does stick. :)

[DrivaMain]

Instead of just using the convoluted special regal as a way to buy these new primes, why don't you just... release separate packs in the store?

[ABlindGuyPlays]

You want 'constructive' feedback from me?

First and foremost. 
MAKE THE ROYAL AVA CURRENCY TRADEABLE JUST LIKE PLATINUM CURRENTLY IS TRADEABLE!
No 'but-' no 'whaddaboud-' This is Non Negotiable. This new currency must be made tradeable or it will be seen as a test to get rid of platinum and turn warframe into every other hellhole P2W microtransaction hellhole out there.

Second:
Adjust ava, weapon and accessory prices. As others have repeatedly pointed out, currently the value proposition skews in favor of just buying a prime pack because you get your accessories cheaper than the ava costs and platinum on top of that to boot. I have seen it suggested to have 4 ava cost $15 American and... if Ava becomes tradeable? That is actually fair. That allows people with only intermittent money they feel comfortable spending to chip in year round and when the christmas vault opens up they can go buy the things they want. This allows, for example me, to buy a hypothetical newbie friend a few goodies by proxy of gifting them royal aa via trades.

I absolutely believe there should be a trade restriction so that you can't have shennanagin at worst, or people new to the game buy up Ava from the friend that got them to try warframe out and then just 'no, i do not liek this.' Make ava untradeable until like either MR4 or MR70. That keeps it from being something newbies get rained with and then black hole. 

However I will, AGAIN, reiterate my first point.

 

AVA MUST BE TRADEABLE OR THIS WILL BE SEEN AS AN EXPERIMENT IN GETTING RID OF TRADEABLE PLATINUM!

[Stuach]

Just now, ABlindGuyPlays said:

You want 'constructive' feedback from me?

First and foremost. 
MAKE THE ROYAL AVA CURRENCY TRADEABLE JUST LIKE PLATINUM CURRENTLY IS TRADEABLE!
No 'but-' no 'whaddaboud-' This is Non Negotiable. This new currency must be made tradeable or it will be seen as a test to get rid of platinum and turn warframe into every other hellhole P2W microtransaction hellhole out there.

Second:
Adjust ava, weapon and accessory prices. As others have repeatedly pointed out, currently the value proposition skews in favor of just buying a prime pack because you get your accessories cheaper than the ava costs and platinum on top of that to boot. I have seen it suggested to have 4 ava cost $15 American and... if Ava becomes tradeable? That is actually fair. That allows people with only intermittent money they feel comfortable spending to chip in year round and when the christmas vault opens up they can go buy the things they want. This allows, for example me, to buy a hypothetical newbie friend a few goodies by proxy of gifting them royal aa via trades.

I absolutely believe there should be a trade restriction so that you can't have shennanagin at worst, or people new to the game buy up Ava from the friend that got them to try warframe out and then just 'no, i do not liek this.' Make ava untradeable until like either MR4 or MR70. That keeps it from being something newbies get rained with and then black hole. 

However I will, AGAIN, reiterate my first point.

 

AVA MUST BE TRADEABLE OR THIS WILL BE SEEN AS AN EXPERIMENT IN GETTING RID OF TRADEABLE PLATINUM!

No, they can't. They need to kill Warframe.market, so they only have the cash..   simple but really deadly...   So stop Plat, ( you only get Endo), nothing can be traded..

Or..

Only by the developers as of now

[Tesseract7777]

Edited for those on dark theme, copy/pasted with plain text: 

 

d 16 minutes ago (edited)

SOOOO the way this breaks down if im correct?  Regal Aya

1 for maybe a Sugatra or sigil

3 for Amor Syndana

Which comes out to   about 27$ for what would be a prime accessories pack  to buy with 

but a prime accessories pack is 20$  however you get to choose 

But a  3 RegalAya  Armor or Syndana would be 20$ without 200Platnum and another prime item like a sugatra or sigil

 

At the current prices   getting armor or syndanas is not valuable in this system. 

Essientially i can pay 20$ for prime vault accessories get the syndana and armor and 200plat 

or in this system

i can pay 20$for 3 regal Asa and get 1 syndana and armor  No plat, No Noggle, no Sigil, No sugatra

 

The fix would be  Double the Prices of everything and instead of 20$ for 3 you get 6 Asa

then only the armor and syndanas drop the cost from 6 Asa to 5,  

 

 

 

essentially    20$ for 1 (syndana or armor)  in the aya  system,     

OR     

20$  for 1 (Syndana or Armor) 1 free (sigil, sugatra , or other prime accessory,)  AND! 200PLAT!   and i if i get 25 more plat from trade i can get a deluxe skin with that plat!!!!

 

 

This would make Aya system competitive to the vault system,  as it stands

 if im buying  Armor or syndanas the Regal Aya System i believe has a much lesser value then the current vault system

De can also tweak the Aya costs of other things or add in other things to purchase with aya as well 

 

So my fellow tenno   Do you agree? or disagree and why?  Was i not clear ,  thoughts?

Edited 14 minutes ago by OmniOmegaPrime

[Voltage]

29 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Maybe I seem bitter, but it's because I don't want to be in a position where I so often have to think, 'I told you so' after giving feedback for which we were asked.

[Voltage]

11 minutes ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

AVA MUST BE TRADEABLE OR THIS WILL BE SEEN AS AN EXPERIMENT IN GETTING RID OF TRADEABLE PLATINUM!

While this is quite the speculation, I don't think you're far off between Regal Aya and Supporter Packs undercutting Platinum-purchased update bundles in the Market with additional exclusives.