Bosses and Boss fights. What needs changing?

[Arniox]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

VERY few players I've seen can actually handle an eidolon, profit taker, the zealot, Nighil, even sentients, disruption and the very first stage of Steel Path without need their hands held.

Eidolons are kindof meant to be played in a team. You can do it solo with the perfect build, but i've tried, and it just takes way too long. Even with the best possible build and set up you could bring. I was able to do a couple eidolon kills in a single night solo. But doing tridolon captures would be very nearly impossible solo.

But the rest are quite easy solo. For me at least. Profit taker; just take Chroma. Nihil; just take anything really. Sentients and disruptions; just take anything. Idk, those are really easy to solo. And I've been soloing steel path anyways. Already at neptune completely solo. Mostly because I prefer to use auto matchmaking for generic misisons and no one is doing them so I never get queued up.

[Arniox]

17 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

This game was designed as a portable phone game device.

Imma have to disagree with you here. This game was never initially designed with phone playability in mind. It's been 8 years and development primarily for PC and then consoles as well came in later. It's always been quite an intensive game to run.

It's literally only this year that they've seen the strength of some of the newest phones. Like the Razor phone. And decided that warframe is optimised enough to run on a phone. But I honestly highly doubt the game would be able to run on most generic phones that the majority own. My S10+ probably would struggle to run it. I'm thinking only the top 0.1% of phones can actually play warframe with good FPS.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

12 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Yes. 

Warframe has the formula of the same boss with different tools. The other games creates a journey. Yes these games have replay value and of course hidden challenges. Warframe is a game where people discover styles or try new things over the road already walked. 

These are two different philosophies of game design that are perfectly valid. DE is NOT capable of making boss fights like Sekiro but that's not a limitation. It's a matter on their game design approach. For better boss fights of course From Software delivers light years ahead. 

This game was designed as a portable phone game device. It's impossible to plug a heavy complex battle in a phone device unless your input comes from keyboard/mouse or pad. With all the issues the game has I'm sure that the portable phone standard will become one of the hardest goal for DE to accomplish. 

You're very much a minority in the "DE lacks x,y,z" department, to be real. First, your argument is already up against an industry tried and tested game where reviews are far more favorable than how you're attempting to showcase it's view.

Second, the eidolons and Orbs are still considered endgame/raid like bosses and the only missing elements to them are HP, shield, damage and armor values that are raid boss standards. 

Third, the bosses here must have some elements to withstand the power fantasy goal of the game. DE could EASILY flip this but only an extremely small handful of players would accept that...unless they are vets like us who are trying to redo the same game with harder content, which is not fair to newcomers and mid level players.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

27 minutes ago, Arniox said:

Probably dark souls. Any of them. Or Bloodborne. That game tests your entire character and being. And I wouldn't be suprised if one or two bosses at the very minimum had all those features. 

I love the more mechanically challanging bosses in warframe. But I could never ever even touch the dark souls series because they're so, SOOOO much harder and would test anyone's personal breaking point. But people still love those games.

Have you tried? If not, you should give it a shot.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Double post. My bad.

[Arniox]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Have you tried? If not, you should give it a shot.

I'm REALLY interested in Elden Ring. And I may give Bloodborne a go. I love the graphical style they use. But if I do play them, I'll probably play on the easiest setting there is.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

2 minutes ago, Arniox said:

I'm REALLY interested in Elden Ring. And I may give Bloodborne a go. I love the graphical style they use. But if I do play them, I'll probably play on the easiest setting there is.

Don't know about Elden Ring, but the SoulsBorne games don't come with difficulty settings. It's set for the players out of the gate. One can increase difficulty by playing in new game+.

[TheGrimCorsair]

15 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Vial Rush doesn't even cost Energy so it's always usable no matter what... Once the coll down ends Obviously 😝.

 

 

All you need is the operator for traversal. No subsumes needed.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

You're very much a minority in the "DE lacks x,y,z" department, to be real.

Says you.

You do realize that I agreed with your argument? Do you seriously read what is written on the board or you go reactionary when someone 'critique DE'? Which one is it. 

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

First, your argument is already up against an industry tried and tested game where reviews are far more favorable than how you're attempting to showcase it's view.

Let us put that theory of yours to a test. 

Proof: https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warframe

Proof 2:https://www.metacritic.com/company/digital-extremes

Reviews are not favorable, sorry. 

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Second, the eidolons and Orbs are still considered endgame/raid like bosses and the only missing elements to them are HP, shield, damage and armor values that are raid boss standards. 

Those are a joke in comparison to Dark Souls series, Sekiro, Daemon Souls, Elden Ring. 

DE IS NOT interested in hard boss fights at all. They are not even interested in deep engaging battles. These are just gear check and reward pool activities for farming. 

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Third, the bosses here must have some elements to withstand the power fantasy goal of the game. DE could EASILY flip this but only an extremely small handful of players would accept that...unless they are vets like us who are trying to redo the same game with harder content, which is not fair to newcomers and mid level players.

Correct. 

You do realize that many of the games I mentioned consider this? You have for all tastes and flavors for the players that are try hards and those who are initializing their journey. No one said that new players should be excluded. No one said that the learning curve should be hard. Those are things that you are mentioning right now. 

 

Warframe always had a portable phone format taste. The game was never meant to have an epic grandeur scale. It is what it is. Warframe IS NOT ALL THAT. Is it a bad game? No, but is not the best game ever either, son. 

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, Arniox said:

Imma have to disagree with you here. This game was never initially designed with phone playability in mind.

A scalable graphic engine started this way of thinking. Of course, those phones came later. This game is modular in terms of tiles and the way is updated. The construction of it happened to be multi platform. Was that intended as a phone game, no? But it ended being a phone game, a plan that Leyou and Tencent had long time ago. 

Officially this game will not improve significantly because is destined to be a portable phone game. That's the reality of it. Of course it started as an experimental project that became a GAAS game. 

3 hours ago, Arniox said:

It's been 8 years and development primarily for PC and then consoles as well came in later. It's always been quite an intensive game to run.

Right now, a switch runs it. Intensive on hard wares? Nah, graphics are pretty average to say the least. 

3 hours ago, Arniox said:

It's literally only this year that they've seen the strength of some of the newest phones. Like the Razor phone. And decided that warframe is optimised enough to run on a phone.

Indeed that's the intended plan. You do realize what that means? The graphic cap will become dominated by these devices, for better or worse. 

3 hours ago, Arniox said:

But I honestly highly doubt the game would be able to run on most generic phones that the majority own. My S10+ probably would struggle to run it. I'm thinking only the top 0.1% of phones can actually play warframe with good FPS.

The clear roadmap of this game are the phones. That was expressed verbally by TENCENT. I know what that means. To be honest, I know where this is heading. In other words: Quality GONE. 

[Megalomaniakaal]

The phones will likely -in PC version terms - be running minimum settings and resolution scale dialed all the way back to 25%. Possibly some other settings not exposed to us even on the PC version, also dialed further back. Calm down. It doesn't particularly affect or define what the game is or can be all maxed out.

 

[Felsagger]

16 minutes ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

Calm down. It doesn't particularly affect or define what the game is or can be all maxed out.

 

ROFLMMAO. 

Do you think that a game like Red Dead Redemption 2, Horizon Zero Dawn 2 or Elden Ring will reach phones? No of course. This game Warframe will be capped in progress because the phones will be taken into consideration from now on. Large open world will NOT be included because the memory on the phones will always be limited. See? 

As I said, Warframe IS NOT a bad game.  But I'm sure that it will NEVER be that great either. The portable phone component will DIRECTLY affect the design of the game. Simple. 

[Megalomaniakaal]

Plenty of phones have already hit equivalent memory footprint of this games minimum spec. Actually exceeding it. Google Pixel 6 Pro has 12GB. Minimum game spec is 4.

 

[Felsagger]

27 minutes ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

Plenty of phones have already hit equivalent memory footprint of this game minimum spec. Actually exceeding it. Google Pixel 6 Pro has 12GB. Minimum game spec is 4.

 

There you have it. 

The mindset will be caped around these minimum specs. The game will NO LONGER be designed for PCs alone. Sadly, that's the truth about it. As I said, Warframe will not be a bad game but it will not be that great either. It will become a portable phone game. Some people will like it, others don't. 

I'll move on towards other games. This game ran its last leg with the New War. I will visit it at least one or two times per year seeing what's up. Other than that, I'll be playing other games and doing other stuff. People will eventually move on too. 

 

[Megalomaniakaal]

Yeah, and graphically speaking the minimum spec has not held this game back at all. Just go to cambion drift, if running with minimum spec HW you'll likely have to dial the render scale all the way back, but it'll still be playable.

 

[Felsagger]

21 minutes ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

Yeah, and graphically speaking the minimum spec has not held this game back at all. Just go to cambion drift, if running with minimum spec HW you'll likely have to dial the render scale all the way back, but it'll still be playable.

 

I have to use this again:

 

[Felsagger]

Don't expect things like this in the near future for Warframe. Once it is locked to become a phone game it will evolve around those parameters. It will no longer be designed with PC or console parameters. 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

5 hours ago, Arniox said:

Probably dark souls. Any of them. Or Bloodborne

Have you actually played them? Just started dark souls, finished blood borne recently. And went up to ng+6.

As far as I know, blood borne has no invulnerable bosses. They put all the things you learned to the test…. Well exceptions for me were Laurence and the orphan of kos…. Now those just punished you HARD.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

3 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE IS NOT interested in hard boss fights at all. They are not even interested in deep engaging battles. These are just gear check and reward pool activities for farming. 

5 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Third, the bosses here must have some elements to withstand the power fantasy goal of the game. DE could EASILY flip this but only an extremely small handful of players would accept that...unless they are vets like us who are trying to redo the same game with harder content, which is not fair to newcomers and mid level players.

Correct. 

You do realize that many of the games I mentioned consider this? You have for all tastes and flavors for the players that are try hards and those who are initializing their journey. No one said that new players should be excluded. No one said that the learning curve should be hard. Those are things that you are mentioning right now. 

^ 

 

5 hours ago, Arniox said:

I'm REALLY interested in Elden Ring. And I may give Bloodborne a go. I love the graphical style they use. But if I do play them, I'll probably play on the easiest setting there is.

Buy the full game with the DLC. Also there’s no difficulty setting. Except insight. But more insight gives more insight into the lore but also ramps up difficulty a bit. It’s a really good game. Also it’s extremely different from blood borne so I’d recommend using the ign guides when you first play it for your first try. 
 

Edit: Tip if you start playing.

DONT MAKE MY MISTAKE.

Take the hunter Blunderbuss, The Yharnam Hunter set, and the HUNTER AXE. Only get the saw cleaver when you need to fight the blood-starved beast. Threaded cane is the worst of the starting weapons. THEN fight the cleric beast. Master viscerals and practice it on father gas can because you need to learn the timings. Comes in useful for blood starved beast, Lady (redacted spoilers) of the (redacted) tower, and the final boss. (Boss name is spoilers)

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

4 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Don't know about Elden Ring, but the SoulsBorne games don't come with difficulty settings. It's set for the players out of the gate. One can increase difficulty by playing in new game+.

Also insight in blood borne…. 

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

The sergeant is the best designed…. But no matter how well designed, our 1 shot kill mechanics just make everything pointless.

 

Edit: PROFIT-TAKER, Exploiter Orb, and THUMPER (Not considered a boss but still) are also very very good. They are not enemies you can just one shot. There are phases, timers, good mechanics.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

^ 

 

Buy the full game with the DLC. Also there’s no difficulty setting. Except insight. But more insight gives more insight into the lore but also ramps up difficulty a bit. It’s a really good game. Also it’s extremely different from blood borne so I’d recommend using the ign guides when you first play it for your first try. 
 

Edit: Tip if you start playing.

DONT MAKE MY MISTAKE.

Take the hunter Blunderbuss, The Yharnam Hunter set, and the HUNTER AXE. Only get the saw cleaver when you need to fight the blood-starved beast. Threaded cane is the worst of the starting weapons. THEN fight the cleric beast. Master viscerals and practice it on father gas can because you need to learn the timings. Comes in useful for blood starved beast, Lady (redacted spoilers) of the (redacted) tower, and the final boss. (Boss name is spoilers)

Also, Bloodborne is designed in a manner that incentivizes players for adopting an aggressive play style with how health is handled.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

1 minute ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Also, Bloodborne is designed in a manner that incentivizes players for adopting an aggressive play style with how health is handled.

Elaborate?

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Just now, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

Elaborate?

Enemies hit you: You lose health.
If you hit enemies back quickly enough: You gain health back in return.

[(PSN)Reaper330011]

1 minute ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Enemies hit you: You lose health.
If you hit enemies back quickly enough: You gain health back in return.

Ahh yeah. Rally right?

 

If your health is Orange then if you hit enemies back before the orange bar starts depleting, you can gain your health back. Different weapons have different rally potential (I think) and there are tunes to boost it.

5 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Also, Bloodborne is designed in a manner that incentivizes players for adopting an aggressive play style with how health is handled.

However, if your rally is too low and your enemy is hard hitting and quick, (like Bsb, orphan of kos or Laurence) you’ll have to still be on the offensive but not rely on rally too much.