Problem Choosing Melee Weapon

[AcewingX]

I just finished getting Ash and believed it would help me in terms of higher base melee attack and supposedly swing speed, however, I feel as if I just recently learned that I've gone about this idea the wrong, wrong way, and right now I'm completely lost as to how to rectify my situation. Details below -

So I went through the wiki and most threads concerning melee weapons, but I still haven't really found my "niche" yet. In-game; I've gone through Skana > Cronus > DHS > Gram.

I've recently learned that the Gram isn't going to work either. I even used a catalyst on it, but found out just yesterday that it won't be achieving the goal I wished for.

At the beginning of the game; I didn't really care all too much, since I knew I'd be swapping out skana and would be experimenting. That time came when I crafted the Cronus, and I finally thought about focusing on a specialty when it came to the DHS's: charge damage + charge speed. I eventually migrated to Gram after getting some in-game opinions and that went splendidly for a long while; as I even went as far as used a catalyst on it. However, after being told just a day ago that melee mods do absolutely nothing for charge damage, well, that basically means I've hit a brick wall in how much damage output I could get out of that department.

I learned that even at 200% charge damage; I'd still need 3-4 heavy swings for Ancients in Eris, BUT, I wanted to eventually cut that down to two swings or less. I also wanted charge speed so I could easily dispatch foes within seconds and move on to the next target. But since melee mods do not affect charge damage; that means Ash's innate specialty in the melee department can't be capitalized on with my current setup. I also found some more epiphanies as I was looking for answers to figure out what melee weapon I'd feel most comfortable with, such as;

1. Ash's maxed smoke-screen lasts only 7-8 seconds

2. He's really not meant to take very long in dispatching single targets as his armor is rather low

3. After reading honest's guide on warframe builds and seeing the Ash video in action, I feel like I've been doing things &#!-backwards.

So coming to those realizations completely throws a wrench in what I wanted to go for, as even with 120% charge speed mods, it would still be much more efficient to just go the fire rate route and stack melee mods.

I would really, REALLY, appreciate some feed-back as to what may work for me; as I am now looking for a weapon that has lots of POWER (crit's are redundant if I'm going to spam smoke-screen), and can be tweaked with enough fire rate mods that it just shreds people like a high powered lawn mower.

TL:DR - I'm an Ash that wants a melee weapon that acts as a blender on all factions + mod advice (criticals are negligeable).

Edited February 26, 2013 by AcewingX

[Scherhardt]

Hey man, I'm using DHS with 2x 50% charge DMG, x3 25% charge DMG and 2x 40% charge speed. I can 1 hit all normal enemies and 2 hits Heavy enemies(with smoke screen)..

[Yurt]

No no no, Gram one hits all the small mobs on Eris not even supercharged. The infested are very weak to blade and you do a crazy amount of damage after the bonus is given. Plus the multi-hit from the gram sword is really good and it staggers the ancients.

But if you want to choose the path or fire rate and damage mods then I would choose the heat sword as a "blender to all factions", lol. Just stack fire rate and melee damage mods as you have said.

[husnielyas]

i play loki and i play melee since day one. what ive found useful for myself is crit mods and crit damage mods. that way you have the flexibility of going charged or normal attacks.

i use DHS, ive got up to a total of 50%+ crit chance and 130%+ crit damage on it (three 15% crit chance, one 10% crit chance, two 69% crit damage). with loki's invisibility (i believe ash's smokescreen works the same way) red crits are pretty frequent. both normal melee and charged melee does insane damage. and DHS cause its got the highest charged damage and melee damage on multi hit weapons (i hate the heavy weapon series, you cant move nuts when youre attacking and it affects my playstyle)

also, ive got two 70% melee damage mods on my loki warframe, and a 25% armour piercing mod on the DHS. its enough to 2 hit normal grineers, 2 normal hit chargers, 1 normal hit infected, 3 charged hit ancients. i think its pretty good, ive yet to find other combination of mods that work better.

[Jarooki]

I have about 200%+ charge damage on my DHS. It can 2-hit ancients on Xini when crit (invisible/smoke screen)

and can 1-hit all normal enemies except moa (no crit).

[AcewingX]

I prefer not to rely on gimmicks like affinities. Just raw strength. I also editted my initial post as I meant: Gram still takes 3-4 charged swings to take out Ancients, which isn't very good as it takes too long and leaves me heavily open to leaper/runners, which force me to stagger or fall down, and that usually means GG with an Ash from what I've seen.

The reason why I didn't go the DHS route is because I was told I'd want more raw power that a scindor/fragor could provide, since I'd always be critting under the effect of smoke-screen. I hadn't considered crit damage+ mods though. Some of you also mentioned charge attacks on DHS, but that would mean I would be focusing on charge speed over fire rate...along with stacking critical damage mods, is that about right?

PS - The video I was referring too had someone maining a heat-sword, but I've learned that the BP for it is Alert only...so that may take a while, and can anyone verify how well a heat sword with Fire rate + damage mods work in Eris/Pluto/Ceres? I'm looking for something that'll do very well in high-end planets.

Edited February 26, 2013 by AcewingX

[Jarooki]

The charge speed isn't really a problem with DHS since you can hit multiple enemies with it. Just attach 1 decent charge speed mod and you're good to go.

If you stack too much fire rate mods on heat sword, it won't be as much effective. BTW if you want to get a decent melee damage with the heat sword you have to sacrifice some of your warframe's mod slot for the +melee damage. The normal melee attack isn't armor piercing though.

But I haven't tried out this build on heat sword yet so can't really say much about it.

[AcewingX]

The charge speed isn't really a problem with DHS since you can hit multiple enemies with it. Just attach 1 decent charge speed mod and you're good to go.

If you stack too much fire rate mods on heat sword, it won't be as much effective. BTW if you want to get a decent melee damage with the heat sword you have to sacrifice some of your warframe's mod slot for the +melee damage. The normal melee attack isn't armor piercing though.

But I haven't tried out this build on heat sword yet so can't really say much about it.

So one high end charge speed mod...and what would the rest be? Crit damage/Charge damage? I mean what reason would there be for me to even use melee mods on Ash then, if that's the case? Or does it not matter with the damage output on the weapon itself?

Edited February 26, 2013 by AcewingX

[KyleOne]

I had put + melee damage as a mod on my warframe (didn't spec it on the weapon itself). That doesn't affect charge damage at all?

[husnielyas]

I had put + melee damage as a mod on my warframe (didn't spec it on the weapon itself). That doesn't affect charge damage at all?

+melee mods are meant for melee attacks (normal) only (whether on warframe or on weapon)

charged attack is a different thing and requires a different mod.

[husnielyas]

The reason why I didn't go the DHS route is because I was told I'd want more raw power that a scindor/fragor could provide, since I'd always be critting under the effect of smoke-screen. I hadn't considered crit damage+ mods though. Some of you also mentioned charge attacks on DHS, but that would mean I would be focusing on charge speed over fire rate...along with stacking critical damage mods, is that about right?

i dont know about you, but i crit 700+ on corpus. and that happens every second hit. If i go invis, i do red crits every second hit for 1k. not sure if thats not enough power for you. i'll try upload a vid soon. made one, but its freakishly huge. (i suck at making vids)

[CubedOobleck]

I just finished farming for my Ash components and I've already built the meelee weapon I intend to use with him: it's the Dual Zoren.

The melee damage is low and the range short, but they attack twice as fast as a skana and have higher critical chance and critical damage which means they are really effective with firerate and critical mods. They are also the best choice for Loki and Ash because Invisibility and Smokescreen grant all criticals. From what I've read and seen this setup should kill almost anything in moments.

Your second choice would be a heat sword as it's the fastest among the sword, so you can power it up with similar mods while mantaining a strong-ish charged attack and a normal range. The result basically will be less extreme.

Also adding a stun chance mod to either weapon is quite effective as you basically disable enemies while you mince them.

Edited February 26, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[WupwupTCR]

I would strongly suggest trying out the Dual Zoren for a spin. Not too difficult to craft, and it seems to answer some of your needs.

At first glance it might not seem like the best choice. Low charge damage and damage in general, but the hidden gem of the Dual Zoren is that any crits it gets, and since you'll be in smokescreen quite often, the damage is tripled. Crits are normally 2x and Red Crits are normally 3x, but the Dual Zoren have the innate "passive" of dealing 3x regular (I mean regular, not charged) crit damage. Couple that with being the only Dual-Anything whose standard melee attack can hit multiple enemies, this turns the Dual Zoren into what you asked for: a lawnmower. Note: This is once the Zoren's upgrade nodes are maxed out

Second glance you might be more inclined to try it out. But some players have issues with how fast this thing is. If you stack enough fire rate mods on it to get as many crits as possible for supagrasscuttingtime, it's going to prove to be a challenge hitting that E button so fast. Oddly, but fortunately enough, if you've looked in the control bindings of Warframe you'll notice that there's a second column of keys. You can bind a secondary key to the same action. Like binding both spacebar and friggin'.. P to jump. Both works. So you bind something that is much easier to spam than mashing E, usually MWheel Down or Up, your preference.

So what I would suggest is the following: as many Melee mods as you're comfortable with on your Ash to free as many slots you're willing to part with, and a mix n' match of what you feel is good between Crit Rate + Damage, and Fire Rate. I would personally suggest 3 mods into Crit Damage, 2 into Fire Rate, and 2 into Crit Rate. As a warning though, my knowledge of mods and Crit caps is fairly limited, so I suggest looking around the forums if you're interested in this.

I feel like a salesman. boop boop

Edit: Some of my information on exactly how much extra damage the Dual Zoren does with crits is probably inaccurate to a degree, so take this with a grain of salt.

Edited February 26, 2013 by WupwupTCR

[husnielyas]

^

ive yet to try dual zoren, mines lvl 20+ now. but i agree fully with what he said: crit damage is the way to go.

Edited February 26, 2013 by husnielyas

[AcewingX]

I would strongly suggest trying out the Dual Zoren for a spin. Not too difficult to craft, and it seems to answer some of your needs.

At first glance it might not seem like the best choice. Low charge damage and damage in general, but the hidden gem of the Dual Zoren is that any crits it gets, and since you'll be in smokescreen quite often, the damage is tripled. Crits are normally 2x and Red Crits are normally 3x, but the Dual Zoren have the innate "passive" of dealing 3x regular (I mean regular, not charged) crit damage. Couple that with being the only Dual-Anything whose standard melee attack can hit multiple enemies, this turns the Dual Zoren into what you asked for: a lawnmower. Note: This is once the Zoren's upgrade nodes are maxed out

Second glance you might be more inclined to try it out. But some players have issues with how fast this thing is. If you stack enough fire rate mods on it to get as many crits as possible for supagrasscuttingtime, it's going to prove to be a challenge hitting that E button so fast. Oddly, but fortunately enough, if you've looked in the control bindings of Warframe you'll notice that there's a second column of keys. You can bind a secondary key to the same action. Like binding both spacebar and friggin'.. P to jump. Both works. So you bind something that is much easier to spam than mashing E, usually MWheel Down or Up, your preference.

So what I would suggest is the following: as many Melee mods as you're comfortable with on your Ash to free as many slots you're willing to part with, and a mix n' match of what you feel is good between Crit Rate + Damage, and Fire Rate. I would personally suggest 3 mods into Crit Damage, 2 into Fire Rate, and 2 into Crit Rate. As a warning though, my knowledge of mods and Crit caps is fairly limited, so I suggest looking around the forums if you're interested in this.

I feel like a salesman. boop boop

Edit: Some of my information on exactly how much extra damage the Dual Zoren does with crits is probably inaccurate to a degree, so take this with a grain of salt.

My issue with zorens is...well, I see them every other game I'm in. They're basically the reason why I want to swap out my Gram, but not for the same thing. Zorens right now IMO are way too good and I don't really feel like they'd work for me =/. (It's more of a personal issue if anything). There's also other weapons as well, so zorens can't possible be the only choice here. But I do understand your analysis on the matter and agree, I'm just not interested in going that route, as good as it may be.

[WupwupTCR]

My issue with zorens is...well, I see them every other game I'm in. They're basically the reason why I want to swap out my Gram, but not for the same thing. Zorens right now IMO are way too good and I don't really feel like they'd work for me =/. (It's more of a personal issue if anything). There's also other weapons as well, so zorens can't possible be the only choice here. But I do understand your analysis on the matter and agree, I'm just not interested in going that route, as good as it may be.

I feel the same on using the Zorens, actually. I recognize and acknowledge their goodness and potential but I myself don't want to hop on that bandwagon.

Alternatively, I might suggest a Fragor/Scindo coupled with either Fire Rate + Melee Damage or a few Charge Speed/Damage mods. With how the state of the game is right now, it really depends on what you'll be doing with either one of those weapons because the spawn rate of the Grineer are just a little bit higher than super insane, almost on par with what I've seen with the Infested except with guns. Both are fairly straightforward weapons and their standard damage slapped on top of 100% crits make the Fragor a meat grinder and the Scindo an oversized mobile guillotine. The one that I've been personally using was the mobile guillotine, and while it only has been upgraded to the 15 nodes + a 20% Fire Rate, 15% Fire damage, and 24% Melee Damage mods, it still works fairly fairly well against all the factions. And it's funs.

Or if you really wanna be a real special snowflake then go for the Furax. Slap Charge Damages and a Charge Speed or two onto that mofo and start punching things into chunks, so fast it doesn't even matter if you're against the Infested (provided you can see enough to aim your punches) since you're just making chunks (not the biological variety) all over the place. Just a different perspective, since the Furax's real potential lies within the Charge Damage and Armor Piercing it deals.

[TheDudeMachine]

For anybody not sold on the dual zorens yet, here is how it performs once you're maxed out with Ash and have good mods. This guy has slightly better mods than I do, but we're both similar:

[AcewingX]

For anybody not sold on the dual zorens yet, here is how it performs once you're maxed out with Ash and have good mods. This guy has slightly better mods than I do, but we're both similar:

That is exactly why I really don't feel like using them. Yes, I would like something very effective, but those things are just overly effective. As I've stated before: there are other melee type weapons out there; zorens should not be the only go-to, and whether I get flak for this or not: I really do hope those dual mini-axes get a bit of an alteration later on, or that other weapons can get a buff; so people will have a reason to pick other viable choices.

[Volume]

Dual Zoren are your answer.

If you refuse to accept that answer, I'd suggest Heat Sword (fire rate, etc)

Edited February 26, 2013 by Volume

[--Sensei--]

if you want fast charge speed and good charge dmg plasma sword is your "niche" I had the same probs wanted to find the fastest charge speed and strongest charge dmg sword ingame

https://forums.warfr...s-and-opinions/

I use dual zorens on my frost for lulz since I stacked fire rate and warframe melee dmg mods on him.

and plasma on my sword with 3 heavy charge speed mods and 4 charge dmg mods.

Other than that yah I use Plasma sword and dual zorens the most, and my gram rarely and I havent touched my dual heat swords in forever. All supercharged too lul.

Edited February 26, 2013 by BushidoCode

[Jarooki]

Did they nerf critical damage? I never got them higher than 15%

Edited February 26, 2013 by Jarooki

[--Sensei--]

Did they nerf critical damage? I never got them higher than 20%

I still have 45-30% crit dmg mods that I barely use.

[Jarooki]

I still have 45-30% crit dmg mods that I barely use.

When did you get that? I got a lot of crit dmg (30) but never pass 15%

[--Sensei--]

When did you get that? I got a lot of crit dmg (30) but never pass 15%

no idea, they're near the end pages of my mod inventory pages so maybe a week or 2 ago? I forgot.

[husnielyas]

I still have 45-30% crit dmg mods that I barely use.

i have 3 thats 69%

[--Sensei--]

i have 3 thats 69%

kay good 4 u

/inbe4&!$$ingContest

/inbe4EpeenStroking

/inbe4IactuallyHaveToListAllMyOPMods

Edited February 26, 2013 by BushidoCode