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What's worse? The last season of Game of thrones or The new war?


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I just thought about it...what's worse?

Game of thrones took many seasons to then flush it down in the last season.
With the new war we just ended the sentients without even really using our own arsenal (i would say you dont need to grind to finish the quest... basic mech + railjack and the rest can be played with the "old tenno")

Over all i'm not really sure why the sentients got hyped up so much. I dont even understand why Balos (or how he's called) gave us the weapon to kill sentients to then take over. Very ironic that he put the sword into us.... but what was the point of the plot again?

Erra was scary , but in the end he was only made to drop lines and in the end lead us to the final fight and that was it?
The quest isnt "the new war" the quest should be called "the end of the plotline without anything else"

Edited by WingR84
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GoT is by far worse.  You can't expect top quality from DE because they're a small group with larger pockets invested from free to pay markets than one could expect from them.  They are also heavily gameplay focused, I wouldn't even call any of the story in Warframe worthy of mentioning outside just like PSO2s or Dark Souls stories aren't worth remembering.

Where as GoT was overhyped and rolled into a grave halfway into the show and then rushed further because the writing no longer followed the books and independently was mishandled.  Despite having the resources and budget that should have allowed them to meet expectations, they utterly failed at ending the show properly.

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TNW is controversial, but that also means that a hell of a lot of people really, really liked it (myself included), whereas I can't recall anybody liking the ending of Game of thrones.

 

I'm aware that it's sometimes hard to look past the negativity bias the Forums have, but then again, even here there's a ton of people praising TNW.

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17 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

TNW is controversial, but that also means that a hell of a lot of people really, really liked it (myself included), whereas I can't recall anybody liking the ending of Game of thrones.

Agreed. This assumption that "it's obviously bad, let's talk about why" irritates me quite a bit. I get that not everybody's going to like it since it's essentially Duviri with a New War bumper on both ends, but I personally liked the story for what it was. My only real complaints are the lack of explanation for some of the more abstract plot points and the general... ineptitude of a lot of the Ballas cutscenes. The final boss fight especially. But the core of the story's fine.

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Were you forced to watch season 5 to the end even though you didn't like it?

Was there no way to stop watching the season, as is always the case?

What DE has delivered with The New War is nothing more than a very bad joke. Both in terms of content, but first and foremost in terms of form. I have never experienced anything like this in 30 years as a gamer. In this respect, the answer is clear.

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3 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

My only real complaints are the lack of explanation for some of the more abstract plot points and the general... ineptitude of a lot of the Ballas cutscenes.

IMO, the cutscenes themselves were fine (great in terms of just how hatable they made Ballas). Rather, it was what wasn't in them that was the problem. Specifically, what happened to change Erra and Ballas's relationship from what I presume was once an equal partnership (albeit with Ballas playing the role of the dog) to one where Ballas was in control. We don't even really know how long the timeskip actually was, unless I'm forgetting something.

 

TNW was certainly not perfect. It has some flaws, some outright glaring ones at that. But it also had some amazing highlights. It's clear more effort was put into some aspects than others. For example, each mission prior to the Archon missions has a clear purpose in the Narrative (establishing shots, introducing Hunhow and turning the tide), but the Archon missions are... well, honestly, just kind of bland. The Lotus chase sequence was hard to follow mechanically and narratively, but once you go back to the Zariman proper, the quest is on track again (until they fumble with the Lotus/Ballas Boss fight. Dangit DE, so close.)

And when the quest goes hard, it goes hard. Even simple moments like Cy's 'On your Six' got me punching the air.

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7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

IMO, the cutscenes themselves were fine (great in terms of just how hatable they made Ballas). Rather, it was what wasn't in them that was the problem. Specifically, what happened to change Erra and Ballas's relationship from what I presume was once an equal partnership (albeit with Ballas playing the role of the dog) to one where Ballas was in control. We don't even really know how long the timeskip actually was, unless I'm forgetting something.

I found the actual film-making in them pretty bad, though. The scene where my Operator does nothing as Ballas slashes her hand, then stands there as he stabs her in the back is just cringe-worthy. It makes her look so dumb, and it was so easy to fix. Have Ballas stab her in the back from off-screen as she's holding onto Natah, causing her grip to fail and eventually her to fall into the Void. You get the same effect, you get more of a shock and you don't make the player character come across as braindead. The same goes for the bazillion ending cutscenes. The player should have been the one to deliver the final blow to Ballas, not get their ass spanked and have to rely on "Call of Duty knife fight finale." Let us beat him, have him sucker-punch us as we go to check on Natah, then trigger whatever he triggered while we're stumbling. I could go on.

Point being, the cutscenes consistently take wind out of the sails of the action they're purporting to portray. Our player character universally always sucks ass, Ballas is consistently a "Villain Sue" and what finally beats him is unconvincing and unsatisfying. You've built up a lot of emotional pressure throughout the story. You can't end it without some kind of moment of release. This story just doesn't have one. At no point are we in a position of moral or mighty victory. The New War makes the same mistake that a lot of amateur writers do in clinging on to the perpetual underdog. Underdog stories only work, however, when you do eventually hand said underdog a clear, deserved win. If you don't, the story ends up reading as depressing and unfulfilling. That's where the cutscenes fail.

As to Erra, sure - parts of his story were clearly cut. I too don't follow how Ballas turned from a dog on a leash to the top dog. That was the biggest moment of "Wait, what?" for me, as well. I thought the Chimera Prologue suggested he'd made a mistake and screwed himself. Not it was his plan all along? What changed?

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9 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I found the actual film-making in them pretty bad, though. The scene where my Operator does nothing as Ballas slashes her hand, then stands there as he stabs her in the back is just cringe-worthy. It makes her look so dumb, and it was so easy to fix. Have Ballas stab her in the back from off-screen as she's holding onto Natah, causing her grip to fail and eventually her to fall into the Void. You get the same effect, you get more of a shock and you don't make the player character come across as braindead.

That's fair enough!

10 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

The same goes for the bazillion ending cutscenes. The player should have been the one to deliver the final blow to Ballas, not get their ass spanked and have to rely on "Call of Duty knife fight finale." Let us beat him, have him sucker-punch us as we go to check on Natah, then trigger whatever he triggered while we're stumbling. I could go on.

At least once Lotus vamps out the Archon shard, let us go full teamwork on him. Mother-Child Kamehameha-ing his corpse into that conveniently-placed sun.

 

12 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Point being, the cutscenes consistently take wind out of the sails of the action they're purporting to portray. Our player character universally always sucks ass, Ballas is consistently a "Villain Sue" and what finally beats him is unconvincing and unsatisfying. You've built up a lot of emotional pressure throughout the story. You can't end it without some kind of moment of release. This story just doesn't have one. At no point are we in a position of moral or mighty victory. The New War makes the same mistake that a lot of amateur writers do in clinging on to the perpetual underdog. Underdog stories only work, however, when you do eventually hand said underdog a clear, deserved win. If you don't, the story ends up reading as depressing and unfulfilling. That's where the cutscenes fail.

DE do seem to understand this (hence having the third Archon fight being when you get your frame back. Though one of those 'stop them biting you' QTE's, but absurdly easy because you're a Frame now would have been fun), but yeah. They fell on that hurdle. 

Well, in terms of a mighty victory. We do succeed in a moral victory, because we do free the Lotus from her abuser.

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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

GoT is the biggest narrative disappointment I've ever experienced in my life

This.  New War was a heavily marketed bait-and-switch in many respects, but you could feel the commitment, love, and respect for their vision/this version of the story.

I wouldn’t ever compare the two in the sense you are suggesting, OP.

And I understand why you are disappointed.

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5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

At least once Lotus vamps out the Archon shard, let us go full teamwork on him. Mother-Child Kamehameha-ing his corpse into that conveniently-placed sun.

That would certainly help, yes. Natah sucks Ballas off enough to regen, my Operator manages to pull her S#&$ together, but Ballas isn't defeated yet. So we both blast him to shreds, giving him just enough time to realise that he lost. Give him an anime "No! How is this possible! I can't lose!" moment - that would be a lot more satisfying, I think. It would still be a little hokey, but still a decent punctuation mark to the whole experience. Then you can shift to "Oh, no! The portal! The sun!" afterwards.

 

8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

DE do seem to understand this (hence having the third Archon fight being when you get your frame back. Though one of those 'stop them biting you' QTE's, but absurdly easy because you're a Frame now would have been fun), but yeah. They fell on that hurdle. 

That's true. Getting my Operator, my Warframe and my Corinth back is a major high point in the story. Unfortunately, it's almost immediately undermined... The VERY first thing I do after regaining my Warframe is to leave it behind on the other side of Onko's loft, transitioning into another Operator stealth section against enemies I can't damage. This is then followed by an absolutely beautiful and dreadfully boring dungeon crawl through the Unum tower. The fight against the final Archon is certainly a cool high point. After struggling with two of them, being able to run roughshod over the third was neat. But that, again, is immediately undermined by robbing me of my weapons and throwing me into a boss fight where my Warframe doesn't do anything and who's predominantly invulnerable.

To offer a couple of examples: Look at Titanfall 2's escape sequence from the crashed ship. A sympathetic character has died, the Pilot is injured... and then the game gives you the Autopistol. What follows is the Pilot dashing through the stage unstoppable, auto-headshotting anything within line of sight, never breaking stride. Of course, that too fails to come at the end... Alternately, there's the Ashtray Maze in Control. The protagonist is given a walkmna that can reveal the path through the maze, then proceeds to go on a 5-minute running gunbattle with hard rock blasting in the background in a massively memorable moment.

The New War doesn't really have a moment like that. In my opinion, it would have helped to have a boss fight AT the Drifter camp. Operator recovers, regains her Warframe, stocks up on weapons, then Ordis butts in "They've found us! We need to run!" No. Not this time. Stay inside, Ordis. I got this. Then dump a LOT of low-level Narmer onto the player. That would have been a lot better than leading straight into another stealth section :)

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GoT was bad, terrible in fact and everyone hated it.

The New War, is actually liked/loved by far more than those that hate it.

I also notice that many that are vocal and negative over it the only reason was because they couldn't kill Lotus, talk about petty.

While others have far more reasonable complaints.

However in the end New War is far better than GoTs.

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13 hours ago, Unpure Frost said:

What DE has delivered with The New War is nothing more than a very bad joke. Both in terms of content, but first and foremost in terms of form. I have never experienced anything like this in 30 years as a gamer. In this respect, the answer is clear.

You don't play enough games or even watch TV in your life do you?

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On 2021-12-16 at 2:57 PM, WingR84 said:

I just thought about it...what's worse?

Game of thrones took 4 seasons to then flush it down in season 5.
With the new war we just ended the sentients without even really using our own arsenal (i would say you dont need to grind to finish the quest... basic mech + railjack and the rest can be played with the "old tenno")

Over all i'm not really sure why the sentients got hyped up so much. I dont even understand why Balos (or how he's called) gave us the weapon to kill sentients to then take over. Very ironic that he put the sword into us.... but what was the point of the plot again?

Erra was scary , but in the end he was only made to drop lines and in the end lead us to the final fight and that was it?
The quest isnt "the new war" the quest should be called "the end of the plotline without anything else"

GoT was dead after the red wedding for me.  Stuck with it through season 3.  Season for I shut it off at the first episode.

I'd say they are both pretty mishandled but I was more mad about GoT because the writing was strong early on then pooped itself.  DE has been pooping themselves with writing since the get go, but in actuality they showed growth in their writing with the new war by making some of the characters interesting and relatable (Viso and Kahl).  Kinda sad we didn't get a commemorative cosmetic of them like we did with the grineer from the glassmaker.  They were some of the best characters in the game by far in terms of character development and uniqueness of personality, which is sad being that one is a dumb clone and the other is a corporate wage slave, both tropes of which are historically lacking in personality :P 

That said, I'd say I was much more let down by GoT because it was good, where as New War had some measure of improvement above their typical crappy anime writing.

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  • 1 month later...
On 2021-12-16 at 9:57 PM, WingR84 said:

I just thought about it...what's worse?

Game of thrones took 4 seasons to then flush it down in season 5.
With the new war we just ended the sentients without even really using our own arsenal (i would say you dont need to grind to finish the quest... basic mech + railjack and the rest can be played with the "old tenno")

Over all i'm not really sure why the sentients got hyped up so much. I dont even understand why Balos (or how he's called) gave us the weapon to kill sentients to then take over. Very ironic that he put the sword into us.... but what was the point of the plot again?

Erra was scary , but in the end he was only made to drop lines and in the end lead us to the final fight and that was it?
The quest isnt "the new war" the quest should be called "the end of the plotline without anything else"

for me The new war, GoT bored me, TNW actually hurt my mental health. 

I don't think that was the intention of anyone in DE, like I don't think they even though about what what it could d do to #*!% over the look of a self insert Avatar by force aging and hobbling them. 

The fact that Button prompts don't take in rebound controls is old news too, so not important and I feel the bits of TNW I forced myself through, being utterly miserable feel like someone collected cool bits from better quests from ME3, inquisition (Rannoch - the orohix blast like reapers) the Dorian quest is a timy wimey what if thing, but actually fun. I'm sure there will be more inspiration visible, gonna note down anything I notice while I let someone share play through this quest so I can finally have fun again. 

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this New war quest is by far worse.   yes, DE did a good job on the design and graphics, but  they really  undersold  its impact.   they claim its only takes a few hours.  well that's for the  hard core players but for the average player its a nightmare.   and sadly unlike other quest, if you start it  your pretty much  forced to do it.   so going on   day 5 of doing the ese  storylines.  currently I'm stuck on archons. yes, such a fun  quest.   Babylon 5 was much better then  this quest. 

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According to you, Think of it like this :

-A Mediocre bad show that you have to pay real money to watch, unless you went to... "Illegal Methods".

-A Mediocre bad quest that you don't have to pay real money to play it.

Which one is better?

Edited by DrivaMain
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I would love to see an episode of The Critical Drinker Fixes.... with the New War. (he's already done GoT)

 

Maybe DE could hire him to write the next storyline so its not as "meh, these guys died, this one's back to normal, carry on as if nothing happened" feeble.

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16 hours ago, BergePrime said:

this New war quest is by far worse.   yes, DE did a good job on the design and graphics, but  they really  undersold  its impact.   they claim its only takes a few hours.  well that's for the  hard core players but for the average player its a nightmare.   and sadly unlike other quest, if you start it  your pretty much  forced to do it.   so going on   day 5 of doing the ese  storylines.  currently I'm stuck on archons. yes, such a fun  quest.   Babylon 5 was much better then  this quest. 

What? Only for "hardcore" players is easy? Are you the voice of every average player?  You've gotta have your hands chopped off and a lobotomy for that quest to be difficult. 

 

BTW, on topic: It has no sense to compare sci-fi futuristic story quest in a game with a "medieval" fantasy tv series; and can't compare something interactive with something you just sit and watch. 

 

Also, don't you think this kind of stuff is VERY subjective?

I never watched GoT because I consider it mediocre, just like the Witcher, some overrated thing that went mainstream. And like most mainstream things, it's usually full of cringe worthy stuff that people consider normal and "cool". 

You know what series I consider good? Lost in Space. You know what story in gaming I also consider excelent? Warframe from beginning  till New War. The other thing I can mention as EXCELENT story and gameplay is MGS: RISING REVENGEANCE. Guess what happened to that game? They never made a secuel because of reasons, and it is one of the best games from my perspective. 

 

And one more thing, what do you prefer: Warhammer Fantasy or Warhammer 40.000? Don't you think that answers regarding that kind of comparisons are totally biased and the answer is actually pointless? I can tell you why I prefer 40k, but I can also tell you why I consider Fantasy to be excelent, but WHATEVER my answer is to that kind of questions, there won't be an actual conversation when people just see stuff they don't like as something evil or difficult that only try hards enjoy. 

So I consider that when people ask this kind of questions, it is because they have an agenda to fulfill.

Edited by BLI7Z
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En 17/12/2021 a las 10:58, Duke Turaglas dijo:

GoT is by far worse.  You can't expect top quality from DE because they're a small group

Nope. I'm tired of this bullS#&$ excuse along the "Dur hurrrrrr FREE DO PLAi"

You know why? Because DE has well over 300 employees and in 2021, 2020, 2019 and in 2018 FREE TO PLAY games were at the apex of revenue and profit in the videogame industry.

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On 2021-12-17 at 2:58 PM, Duke Turaglas said:

GoT is by far worse.  You can't expect top quality from DE because they're a small group

Are they tho? DE is owned by Leyou Technologies Holdings Limited which in turn is owned by Tencent (biggest videogame company in China) and got a reported yearly revenue of $69.9M.

But size have nothing to do with quality, smaller companies have made better games and larger companies have made worse. Hell, DE performed better years ago when they were smaller. Their flaws are entirely staff-based.

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  • WingR84 changed the title to What's worse? The last season of Game of thrones or The new war?

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