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Conclave + Invasions could be quite fun.


IDzer0
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Hi!

Just quite recently I played few Conclave matches and I thought "It's not that bad to be honest!". While standard modes are fun I think there are more things that can be added - Invasions! PvP in this game is quite deserted right now. I can't seem to find higher MR players within EU Region and I think that MR1 players who jump straight to Conclave upon finishing the first quest should be warned with some kind of pop-up saying that there might be a terrible difference between equipment.

And sorry, I couldn't find a better place to post it - feel free to suggest moving the topic somewhere else.

 

Conclave + Invasions.
A lot like Battlefront, but it just might be what we need. New War brought us a possibility to play as a Grineer and Corpus character and their respective HUD already exist, thus my suggestion appeared.

Invasion operations could involve small and large scale battles between both bots and players. If the player's score is relatively high during battle it will be possible to use a Conclave Warframe Loadout or some upgraded faction units (e.g. Jackal?).

Introduce standing towards both factions and move current attendance rewards to the pool.

Players vs Bots or Players vs Players?

While gaining standing towards a faction in PvBPvP will yield Conclave standing as well.

Standing Cap - by Mastery Rank or Faction Rank?

There is a huge difference between High and Low MR players when it comes to Standing Cap. To make it more rewarding I think a Faction Rank could be implemented to determine Standing Cap and make players fight for different Factions instead of sticking towards only one. In most cases players would stick with Grineer as their weapon parts are way more expensive when it comes to buying for platinum.

From 0 (Neutral) with 10k to 3 with 30k.

New Rewards.
Mods! Faction-weapon-specific mods to be exact!

Lets be honest, some faction weapons are just way too weak (even with max Riven disposition) and it could be a nice way of improving them. Example: Dera Serration, boosted dmg compared with standard Serration mod or same + a cool additional bonus.

Standing Rewards - I don't want to spend a whole day farming it!

While for standard Conclave modes I think it should be increased a bit, for Invasions it should be both rewarding and scaling with either player's MR or Faction Rank as introduced earlier in this post.

Rewards for both, attendance, kills and some additional daily tasks included in Standing Cap (not separate). Even more boost with Friendly Fire?

Loadouts, characters and fashion - Skins! Fight with style!

For each faction player could choose their favourite character (apart from Nox) with predefined weapons or weapon types (e.g. Bombard - primary grenade launchers only, Ballista - primary sniper/semi-trigger rifle only - Grinlok/Vulkar) and a set of skills. Then save as loadouts in order to quickly change between them before respawn.

Some fashion elements (for standing and platinum) could be a nice touch as well!

Edited by IDzer0
Invasions, not Operations...
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  • IDzer0 changed the title to Conclave + Invasions could be quite fun.

No, this is the right place. Although we're not sure if it is even looked at by any devs anymore.

A few things up front:

  • If you look through this subforum, a lot of those or similar suggestions have been made over time. I think last time the devs even mentioned something PvP was what they called "Warframekart" / "Track & Field". That was 2 years ago now? Not sure anymore.
     
  • Meanwhile Conclave has not even received all the upkeep it needs, it's still in a slowly deteriorating state (things that broke/were made worse through PvE updates). Although recently they at least removed all the new unbalanced weapons they introduced earlier last year and some things got fixed here and there. There's still at least one bug in there that was brought up back in 2016 already (newbies starting with only melee).

 

So that's to frame what to expect from these devs when it comes to PvP. And so my opinion generally is: whatever new modes get suggested, on one hand they probably won't work as well as people envision them, on the other it'd be even more things for the devs to introduce and in their ADHD abandon a few months down the line.

It doesn't really matter whether the idea sounds cool or not, that's what we've come to expect around here.

Grineer vs Corpus: Often suggested, and of course I'd try it if they made it. But problems are apparent even before they do, have been talked about in other threads already. And I'm much more interested in Warframe combat anyway (but of course, ymmv).

  • Invasions: Sounds neat, but a fundamental problem here is the power level. For Warframes, would that be under Conclave rules? If not, probably won't work. The problems were already apparent back when we had Solar Rails, and the power level went completely through the roof since. Or they'd have to figure out something new to deal with it. Conclave 2.0 (what we have now) was introduced in part because of those problems.

Bots: also often suggested. But seeing how the AI is generally braindead in this game -- also take a few minutes and look at Index bots -- that's not going to work well. And even if they took the time; it'd be another moving part that'd probably break at some point.

Standing Cap/Standing Rewards: Good suggestions. Generally, standing gain (and rewards) are stuck in 2016. They could definitely be improved/increased. Has been suggested in this forum quite a few times, too.

New Rewards: Community opposition has basically led the devs to the unwritten rule: put nothing exclusive behind PvP that serves for progression in the game. Originally, it was handled like another Syndicate -- but it never even received its own weapon (presumably Zylok: its internal name is ConclaveLeverPistol). So now all the exclusives are skins (plus some Conclave-only mods). But nowadays some people throw a fit even about those. Go figure.

Of course, if there's nothing all that interesting to gain from it, it's hard to attract interest. So yes to your suggestion, but probably won't happen.

Loadouts, characters and fashion: As stated, nowadays people are even upset about skins. It'd be a hard sell. That said, so this is presumably about the suggested invasions? I mean it'd certainly need something to gain from it to attract attention. Cosmetics/convenience are probably still the way to go there.

Edited by Kontrollo
typos
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Posted (edited)
On 2022-01-04 at 5:59 PM, Kontrollo said:

Invasions: Sounds neat, but a fundamental problem here is the power level. For Warframes, would that be under Conclave rules? If not, probably won't work. The problems were already apparent back when we had Solar Rails, and the power level went completely through the roof since. Or they'd have to figure out something new to deal with it. Conclave 2.0 (what we have now) was introduced in part because of those problems.

I underlined the Conclave Warframe Loadout above 😉

Since Warframes can be quite strong and agile (too agile) even with Conclave loadout, in Grineer vs Corpus a mod system would need to be introduced in order to equalise the gap a bit. Still, greatly experienced Conclave players will probably own the battlefield once they'll get their hands on a Warframe.

A set of 3 skills for each character, while Warframes' ults should be blocked (I think?) in order to prevent for example partial "immortality" thanks to Trinity.

Characters, restrictions and skills examples:
(It's a long list)

Spoiler

Mobility means overall running/sprint speed and evade manoeuvre. All skills must have cooldowns.

A PC squad cannot have more than 1 or 2 same characters.

Recon (lowest Shields/HP, highest mobility):

  • Restrictions:
    • Pistols only.
    • Light melee weapons*
      *High proficiency with daggers.
  • Skills:
    • Blink step - teleports behind the enemy and attacks with melee weapon. 
    • Prowl - hides presence until an attack or stab is performed.
    • Lightning shock - applies shock dmg and status with the next attack.

Snipers (low Shields/HP, higher mobility):

  • Restrictions:
    • Semi / Sniper Rifles
    • Light melee weapons
  • Skills:
    • Camouflage - as the name says. Use on crouch, ends while the character moves and applies cooldown (lets say ~10-20 seconds).
    • Mark - marks enemy or enemies in sight (can only be used while aiming). Effective range and effect area (cone) scales with zoom. Enemies take increased damage from Semi/Sniper Rifles. Adds x1 to Headshot multiplier (or an overkill?).
    • Escape manoeuvre - Temporarily boosts sprint speed and becomes invisible.

Assault (standard Shields/HP, standard mobility - an all rounder):

  • Restrictions:
    • Cannot equip Sniper Rifles, Machine guns and other super heavy weapons.
    • Cannot equip super heavy melee weapons.*
      *High proficiency with swords and machetes - blocking.
  • Skills:
    • Grenade - obvious!
    • Barricade - same as we seen in the New War gameplay.
    • Equipment dependent abilities (I just couldn't find any other idea):
      • Hover (if using Helion-like jetpack) - briefly hovers over the ground.
      • Drone (like they use in PoE) - temporary sentinel companion.
      • etc.

Medic - don't know... Any ideas? Most likely nobody (besides me) will pick this one and I leave it blank because I tend to overpower supportive builds/classes/etc.

Heavy Gunner (higher Shields/HP, lower mobility):

  • Restrictions:
    • Machine guns / Drum magazine weapons
    • Can be equipped with either Heavy or Light melee weapons
  • Skills:
    • Knock down - same as we see while Heavy Gunners are approached in melee range.
    • Armour boost - temporarily boosts armour or applies something like Rhino's Iron Skin (cannot be used with Weapon overcharge*).
    • Weapon overcharge - slows the character down, temporarily boosts fire rate granting slight damage resistance (cannot be used with Armour boost*).
      *Applies a short global cooldown after the effect ends.

Bombard (very high Shields/HP, lowest mobility):

  • Restrictions:
    • Slow and super heavy weapons / grenade launchers (Ogris/Tonkor).
    • Heavy melee weapons.
  • Skills:
    • Knock down - still, same as enemy counterpart.
    • Pain train (sounds like Fallout) - rushes towards the target knocking them down.
    • Impenetrable fortress - freezes the character in place (or drastically slowing them down) granting damage resistance. Reflects part of the damage taken. Boosts reload speed.

Also a nice touch would be if we could get some temporary Eximus powers during the battle - collectibles (like energy orbs?) or rewarded for kills.

Some bots/NPCs might spawn with them as well.

Edited by IDzer0
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On 2022-01-06 at 2:41 PM, Loxyen said:

pvp mobility is already nerfed... less mobility as in bjump speed and more friction on slides

I can't really imagine a Grineer Heavy Gunner doing a bullet jump as per my idea above.

And yes, while the mobility is indeed nerfed, there are still some double-edged mods around that will increase this stat. Good use of them along while maintaining quite sufficient EHP makes total pros the same killing machines. I don't say that I have something against it, not at all. Standard conclave modes require tons of training, in aim and mobility altogether. I started practicing, however there's still one problem. Some OP weapons that are considered "cheesy" by the Conclave community. For example I've been told that all variants of Tigris are considered this way and was asked to stop using them or else they will start the carnage. Since I didn't have any other loadout back then I couldn't really switch to something else and the carnage started. Wolf Sledge and Mire are the same, at least in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

... Some OP weapons that are considered "cheesy" by the Conclave community. For example I've been told that all variants of Tigris are considered this way and was asked to stop using them or else they will start the carnage. Since I didn't have any other loadout back then I couldn't really switch to something else and the carnage started. Wolf Sledge and Mire are the same, at least in my opinion.

A lot of things are still somewhat balanced, but over time a few things got introduced that are clearly not. At least on PC, many regular players stick to the things that are not broken.

Despite all our feedback over time, these have not been touched/fixed. So what else can we do? Otherwise it's just a run to the bottom.

Of course that sucks if that's the only gear you have available. But the alternative is worse, the regulars could use those weapons, too. Tigris series is especially bad and the worst is Tigris Prime: no fall-off and 800 total damage, 1600 duplex. You can kill people across the map with a few pellets hitting their head, better than with sniper rifles.

Here is the current thread for that particular problem, and it links to previous ones. Note the creation dates:

Edited by Kontrollo
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27 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

A lot of things are still somewhat balanced, but over time a few things got introduced that are clearly not. At least on PC, many regular players stick to the things that are not broken.

Despite all our feedback over time, these have not been touched/fixed. So what else can we do? Otherwise it's just a run to the bottom.

Of course that sucks if that's the only gear you have available. But the alternative is worse, the regulars could use those weapons, too. Tigris series is especially bad and the worst is Tigris Prime: no fall-off and 800 total damage, 1600 duplex. You can kill people across the map with a few pellets hitting their head, better than with sniper rifles.

Here is the current thread for that particular problem, and it links to previous ones. Note the creation dates:

I know what you're getting at and I was a part of such discussion on Conclave Discord quite recently. Feels bad, indeed. IMHO, Prime weapons and Warframes should have the same or a really tiny bit better stats than their standard counterparts in Conclave. 

Any ideas regarding my above-mentioned mode?

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2 minutes ago, IDzer0 said:

I know what you're getting at and I was a part of such discussion on Conclave Discord quite recently. Feels bad, indeed. IMHO, Prime weapons and Warframes should have the same or a really tiny bit better stats than their standard counterparts in Conclave. 

That's already the case with the things that were balanced back in the day. Mostly, at least. PvP stats depend on PvE stats, they're not separated cleanly, and over time they did several PvE rebalances. Not everything was tweaked carefully after those. Balance was pretty good some years ago and it could be again if a dev actually cared for a week or so.

 

2 minutes ago, IDzer0 said:

Any ideas regarding my above-mentioned mode?

I don't really have anything to add to add beyond what I already said earlier. They're not even fixing all the broken things that made it into Conclave over the years. I mean, sounds neat but imho, it's just unlikely to happen.

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On 2022-01-04 at 11:59 AM, Kontrollo said:

No, this is the right place. Although we're not sure if it is even looked at by any devs anymore.

A few things up front:

  • If you look through this subforum, a lot of those or similar suggestions have been made over time. I think last time the devs even mentioned something PvP was what they called "Warframekart" / "Track & Field". That was 2 years ago now? Not sure anymore.
     
  • Meanwhile Conclave has not even received all the upkeep it needs, it's still in a slowly deteriorating state (things that broke/were made worse through PvE updates). Although recently they at least removed all the new unbalanced weapons they introduced earlier last year and some things got fixed here and there. There's still at least one bug in there that was brought up back in 2016 already (newbies starting with only melee).

 

So that's to frame what to expect from these devs when it comes to PvP. And so my opinion generally is: whatever new modes get suggested, on one hand they probably won't work as well as people envision them, on the other it'd be even more things for the devs to introduce and in their ADHD abandon a few months down the line.

It doesn't really matter whether the idea sounds cool or not, that's what we've come to expect around here.

Grineer vs Corpus: Often suggested, and of course I'd try it if they made it. But problems are apparent even before they do, have been talked about in other threads already. And I'm much more interested in Warframe combat anyway (but of course, ymmv).

  • Invasions: Sounds neat, but a fundamental problem here is the power level. For Warframes, would that be under Conclave rules? If not, probably won't work. The problems were already apparent back when we had Solar Rails, and the power level went completely through the roof since. Or they'd have to figure out something new to deal with it. Conclave 2.0 (what we have now) was introduced in part because of those problems.

Bots: also often suggested. But seeing how the AI is generally braindead in this game -- also take a few minutes and look at Index bots -- that's not going to work well. And even if they took the time; it'd be another moving part that'd probably break at some point.

Standing Cap/Standing Rewards: Good suggestions. Generally, standing gain (and rewards) are stuck in 2016. They could definitely be improved/increased. Has been suggested in this forum quite a few times, too.

New Rewards: Community opposition has basically led the devs to the unwritten rule: put nothing exclusive behind PvP that serves for progression in the game. Originally, it was handled like another Syndicate -- but it never even received its own weapon (presumably Zylok: its internal name is ConclaveLeverPistol). So now all the exclusives are skins (plus some Conclave-only mods). But nowadays some people throw a fit even about those. Go figure.

Of course, if there's nothing all that interesting to gain from it, it's hard to attract interest. So yes to your suggestion, but probably won't happen.

Loadouts, characters and fashion: As stated, nowadays people are even upset about skins. It'd be a hard sell. That said, so this is presumably about the suggested invasions? I mean it'd certainly need something to gain from it to attract attention. Cosmetics/convenience are probably still the way to go there.

i love this 

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