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Open Letter to the Warframe Community and Digital Extremes regarding The New War and reactions to it.


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Hello Warframe, I wanted to write this to mention some things about what I’ve been seeing going on in the forums and the subreddit regarding The New War.

I’ve been seeing all sorts of posts and comments regarding The New War. Both good and bad. I’ve seen people saying that The New War is the best quest to come out of Warframe, and I’ve seen people saying The New War is the worst part of Warframe to ever exist. I don’t mind people who give constructive criticism about the quest. Constructive criticism helps the devs figure out what issues people have with The New War and fix them if they think it is necessary. It’s very helpful to offer both constructive criticism, and mention what they did right. People offering both constructive criticism and what they think was good about the quest is probably the most helpful for the devs. What I cannot deal with is people just going around saying that The New War is terrible and there is nothing good about it and not explaining it or just saying it’s terrible because they cannot complete it or “it’s too hard”. I wouldn’t mind this if they explained why they don’t like it, but some people don’t. They just criticize it and don’t elaborate all that much on it. What is really bad is when people are saying they like The New War, then someone comes and comments on their post or comment and says that their wrong and The New War is terrible. This is like what happened with Regal Aya and Prime Resurgence. Some people offered constructive criticism about not having Platinum in Regal Aya purchases, and others just complained about it and didn’t offer any constructive feedback. As DE said when they added Platinum to Regal Aya purchases, “Those who chose to be toxic will be able to participate in this change thanks solely to the constructive feedback that occurred - toxicity is never tolerated or rewarded.”

Basically, what I’m saying here is that being “toxic” about The New War will not get your issue fixed, but offering feedback about your issues might end up with you getting a response and possibly getting your issue fixed.

Remember, The New War, which is a very long and complicated quest, was developed mostly after the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. Also, remember that Digital Extremes is based in Canada where the restrictions about COVID are very high. They had to develop this quest while working at home for the most part. This was definitely a grueling task, and even though the quest did come out late, remember it could have taken even more time.
Personally, I have some constructive feedback to offer to DE about The New War, and also some things that they did well. (Spoilers Ahead! If you have not yet played the New War, consider playing it before reading the following section.)

I think that overall, The New War was a pretty good quest. I do acknowledge that some parts of the quest are definitely harder than others, and there are some parts that I think could use some change, but I am fine with where the quest is now. I’m going to go over some common issues I see that people talk about the New War and say what I think about them. (Note, that this is my opinion, so this is what I think about these issues. Other people are going to feel differently about this, and I’m okay with that. This is just my opinion.)

The two biggest issues I see people complain about are these: The Archon fight, and not being able to quit The New War once they start.
I think that the Archon fight is not that bad, but this is from someone who plays warframe alot. For a “casual gamer” as some people say, I agree with the fact that it is probably quite difficult. I think that maybe making the Archons have less health would help so you can kill them quicker, and maybe making them do less damage would help. But I personally would go with making them have less health so you can do more damage to them, and possibly get through the fight faster/easier.

Then there is the argument over not being able to quit The New War once you begin the quest. I personally think that this argument is a bit nonsensical, as in order to start The New War, you are given a prompt that says you will not be able to change your loadout or do normal Warframe things once you begin the quest, and in order to being, you have to type “NEWWAR”

Another thing I suggest is regarding the selecting the Lotus at the end of The New War. I think that the prompt where you confirm your pick should also say something along the lines of “Remember, you are not picking this from your point of view, you are picking it from Natah/Lotus/Margulis’ point of view. Pick what you think she would pick.” From what I’ve been seeing, a lot of people are picking based on appearance alone. There are some people picking based on events, but I think people should be reminded that they are picking Natah/Lotus/Margulis based on what they think she would want. Not what the Tenno would want. However, I am okay with people picking based off of the name, as it is permanent. I think people would be a lot less concerned about it if they knew they could change what she looks like, but I think not knowing that adds to the pick.
There is only one more slight issue I have. Teshin. I just want to know why you killed him off (if he is actually dead), and didn’t mention it. Erra just kills him and that’s that. I just want to know the reason behind it, that’s all.

Now for what I think was good. Digital Extremes, I want to say good job to you. You produced a very complicated and large quest in not too much time and during a global pandemic. Honestly, I really like this quest. The visuals are really good and the music as well. Kudos to Keith Power for creating another masterpiece, “For Narmer”, as well as the other people who worked on that song and the other songs in The New War. I think the story was quite good as well. There are a couple things here and there, but I don’t think anything that makes this quest any less impressive. Good job DE!
Overall, I think that The New War is quite good, but I do acknowledge that there are a few issues with it, and that it is to be expected. I think that if people want to complain about The New War, they should offer feedback on what could be done to fix their issue and also maybe mention a few things they liked about it. Just complaining about it will get nothing done.

Fellow Tenno,
Viridian Dawn

 

Edited by Viridian_Dawn
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15 minutes ago, Viridian_Dawn said:

There is only one more slight issue I have. Teshin. I just want to know why you killed him off (if he is actually dead), and didn’t mention it. Erra just kills him and that’s that. I just want to know the reason behind it, that’s all.

Personally, I think it was to hammer home the fact that he knew we wouldn't be able to let the Lotus go. This is why he lied to us and didn't call us in after destroying the orphix fields, and why our Tenno didn't seem to react to what happened to him. They were so focused on trying to save the Lotus that it not only cost Teshin his life, and their life, but doomed the entire Origin system to Narmer/sentient conquest.

"You've ruined us both." 😬

"Don't let your Uncle Teshin down now." 😭

Edited by Numerikuu
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I have a major major issue with your post that I have brought up before.

The warning is utterly and completely useless.... you have NO WAY of knowing the quest and the archon fight is going to be too hard till you play it... and find out ....and stay with me here... its TOO HARD.

Seriously are you supposed to be imparted the knowledge of how hard the quest is, from the dark matter of the universe or something?

I found the archon fight to be harder than anything in Horizon Zero Dawn on a normal playthrough. That is way way too hard for a gamelocking event. The quest was clearly rushed to get it out for holidays and not properly tested for difficulty. 

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8 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

I found the archon fight to be harder than anything in Horizon Zero Dawn on a normal playthrough. That is way way too hard for a gamelocking event. The quest was clearly rushed to get it out for holidays and not properly tested for difficulty. 

Kinda hoping that DE has stats on completion rates. Will be interesting to see/hear the data tbh. Personally I found them easy, the only difficulties I had were due to me forgetting some of Hunhow's tips (use smoke bombs to breach the Owl's wall, the radar to detect the real Wolf etc).

Btw, OP's post directly references replies like yours. Instead of bashing DE, provide constructive feedback on where and what exactly you had trouble with. Merely saying 'REEEEEEEE TOO HARD' provides DE nothing in terms of constructive feedback, and they will (or should imo) ignore your cries.

Edited by Numerikuu
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1 minute ago, Kconvey said:

Seriously are you supposed to be imparted the knowledge of how hard the quest is, from the dark matter of the universe or something?

in my opinion, if you got this far in the game, you should have enough knowledge to understand those fights... i understand if you're playing on consoles, but on pc i really can't find what's so impossible about it. and even so, aren't they supposed to be difficult? first time in years we have something difficult, something you actually have to think some to do XD

 

3 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

The quest was clearly rushed to get it out for holidays and not properly tested for difficulty. 

YES, i agree. for me, the worst part is the aftermath. recycled broken content for new stuff. the plot holes i'm guessing are due to duviri not being ready.

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1 minute ago, Numerikuu said:

Kinda hoping that DE has stats on completion rates. Will be interesting to see/hear the date tbh. Personally I found them easy, the only difficulties I had were due to me forgetting some of Hunhow's tips (use smoke bombs to breach the Owl's wall, the radar to detect the real Wolf etc).

The problem as I brought up before is incredibly subjective. But if you have played HZD on normal its not an easy game. And this was significantly harder.. and that... that is not good. 

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4 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

in my opinion, if you got this far in the game, you should have enough knowledge to understand those fights... i understand if you're playing on consoles, but on pc i really can't find what's so impossible about it. and even so, aren't they supposed to be difficult? first time in years we have something difficult, something you actually have to think some to do XD

 

YES, i agree. for me, the worst part is the aftermath. recycled broken content for new stuff. the plot holes i'm guessing are due to duviri not being ready.

But here is the thing... if you do for whatever reason find yourself in over your head with the difficulty... YOU can never do anything else in the game again. So say someone misjudged the difficulty and cant do it, should they forever be locked out of playing warframe again?

 

I actually think the much much bigger problem is two weeks of silence and forum frustration festering. 

Edited by Kconvey
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1 minute ago, Kconvey said:

The problem as I brought up before is incredibly subjective. But if you have played HZD on normal its not an easy game. And this was significantly harder.. and that... that is not good. 

I've not personally played it, but I have watched family members play it. From what I saw of the combat it looked no more different in difficulty to the Archons. 🤷‍♀️

And since I edited my last post:

7 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Btw, OP's post directly references replies like yours. Instead of bashing DE, provide constructive feedback on where and what exactly you had trouble with. Merely saying 'REEEEEEEE TOO HARD' provides DE nothing in terms of constructive feedback, and they will (or should imo) ignore your cries.

 

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39 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Btw, OP's post directly references replies like yours. Instead of bashing DE, provide constructive feedback on where and what exactly you had trouble with. Merely saying 'REEEEEEEE TOO HARD' provides DE nothing in terms of constructive feedback, and they will (or should imo) ignore your cries.

Thank you, you understand exactly what I am saying, and what I think we are seeing too much of.

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7 minutes ago, Viridian_Dawn said:

Thank you, you understand exactly what I am saying, and what I think we are seeing too much of.

The reason you are seeing so much "WAAHHHH too hard" is the two weeks of utter silence from the devs. They havent said they will look at it, they havent solicited advice, they have said nothing and let it fester on the forums and when that happens, discussions go downhill quick.

 

So constructive criticism is the absolute first thing to fix is Say SOMETHING about players being stuck and the plans going forward. 

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18 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

provide constructive feedback on where and what exactly you had trouble with.

Happy to...

The Owl by its location on Earth should be the easiest boss...not the one most folks seem to have trouble with.

The electrified ground effect either covers too large an area or lasts too long.

The solution to getting inside the blue field to counter its healing isn't intuitive. You're not given sufficient positive feedback that rolling/running inside is even possible...and using a smoke bomb in this situation is so illogical even with Hunhow's "hints" I couldn't connect the dots. Trying to figure this out through trial and error takes too long given how long you have to wait between screams.

I mean, I guess I should have tried everything since we only have 3 skills and in the past I've figured out to feed a cow carrots to get milk that would let me see in the dark?

I ended up quitting after wasting my time watching it heal back all my damage over and over. When I saw I didn't have to pick this boss next time, I was relieved. The other 2 bosses took me at least 10 minutes each, I feel this was too long given how limited and basic the drifter game play was.

So, in my case it was a matter of not being able to figure out what to do or just feeling the fights overstayed their welcome.

Then I got a chance for a rematch with the Owl using my frame...this is going to be fun now right? Nope it just went poof? Did we have our sentinels here...because I don't think I even got a shot off...maybe Helios killed it? Clearly the quest difficulty is all over the map...

1 hour ago, Viridian_Dawn said:

Pick what you think she would pick.” From what I’ve been seeing, a lot of people are picking based on appearance alone.

Who are we kidding? If you are going to give me the choice, I'm picking what I want to look at...no amount of additional instruction will change that. It's a game. If DE wanted to remove the choice and have the result determined by alignment as others have suggested, that would have been interesting...they didn't do that however.

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2 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

The reason you are seeing so much "WAAHHHH too hard" is the two weeks of utter silence from the devs. They havent said they will look at it, they havent solicited advice, they have said nothing and let it fester on the forums and when that happens, discussions go downhill quick.

 

So constructive criticism is the absolute first thing to fix is Say SOMETHING about players being stuck and the plans going forward. 

Christmas vacation? Happens yearly?? DE aren't robots available 24/7???

That's also no excuse for 'REEEEEE TOO HARD' non-constructive feedback posts. Discussions went downhill because of said non-constructive posts imo.

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12 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

The reason you are seeing so much "WAAHHHH too hard" is the two weeks of utter silence from the devs. They havent said they will look at it, they havent solicited advice, they have said nothing and let it fester on the forums and when that happens, discussions go downhill quick.

 

So constructive criticism is the absolute first thing to fix is Say SOMETHING about players being stuck and the plans going forward. 

I honestly see no reason for them to do so. Every single "it is to hard" post is just mind blowing. Like there are games i consider hard, Warframe and the new war quest are not among those.

If you simply don't want to be helped and still cry about it being to hard, shame on you. If I were mute and an-alphabetic I could've still completed this quest without any help. Eidolons are harder than this quest and I am dead serious about this.

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26 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Kinda hoping that DE has stats on completion rates. Will be interesting to see/hear the data tbh. Personally I found them easy, the only difficulties I had were due to me forgetting some of Hunhow's tips (use smoke bombs to breach the Owl's wall, the radar to detect the real Wolf etc).

Btw, OP's post directly references replies like yours. Instead of bashing DE, provide constructive feedback on where and what exactly you had trouble with. Merely saying 'REEEEEEEE TOO HARD' provides DE nothing in terms of constructive feedback, and they will (or should imo) ignore your cries.

I guess what's confusing to me is, I completely missed the clues. I never did figure out that using a smokebomb would let you through the owl bubble, I just rammed my face into the bubble and took my shot, sometimes it landed and sometimes it got blocked. Using radar to detect the real wolf? Never even occurred to me, I just killed dupes until I hit the right one. The snake might have been tougher, but I saved that one for last and one-shotted her.

I went down once to the owl, and got revived by Stalker. I think I did the wolf without dying, or maybe I died once from the dot. But you have a heal on a short cooldown, and you can just play hard to get while you wait for it to come back up.

So I did the fights completely wrong and still managed to muddle through without too much trouble. 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Elvenbane said:

Happy to...

The Owl by its location on Earth should be the easiest boss...not the one most folks seem to have trouble with.

The electrified ground effect either covers too large an area or lasts too long.

The solution to getting inside the blue field to counter its healing isn't intuitive. You're not given sufficient positive feedback that rolling/running inside is even possible...and using a smoke bomb in this situation is so illogical even with Hunhow's "hints" I couldn't connect the dots. Trying to figure this out through trial and error takes too long given how long you have to wait between screams.

I mean, I guess I should have tried everything since we only have 3 skills and in the past I've figured out to feed a cow carrots to get milk that would let me see in the dark?

I ended up quitting after wasting my time watching it heal back all my damage over and over. When I saw I didn't have to pick this boss next time, I was relieved. The other 2 bosses took me at least 10 minutes each, I feel this was too long given how limited and basic the drifter game play was.

So, in my case it was a matter of not being able to figure out what to do or just feeling the fights overstayed their welcome.

Then I got a chance for a rematch with the Owl using my frame...this is going to be fun now right? Nope it just went poof? Did we have our sentinels here...because I don't think I even got a shot off...maybe Helios killed it? Clearly the quest difficulty is all over the map...

Perfect representation of constructive feedback 👌

1 minute ago, motorfirebox said:

I guess what's confusing to me is, I completely missed the clues. I never did figure out that using a smokebomb would let you through the owl bubble, I just rammed my face into the bubble and took my shot, sometimes it landed and sometimes it got blocked. Using radar to detect the real wolf? Never even occurred to me, I just killed dupes until I hit the right one. The snake might have been tougher, but I saved that one for last and one-shotted her.

I went down once to the owl, and got revived by Stalker. I think I did the wolf without dying, or maybe I died once from the dot. But you have a heal on a short cooldown, and you can just play hard to get while you wait for it to come back up.

So I did the fights completely wrong and still managed to muddle through without too much trouble. 

Same. Brute forced my dumbass through Boreal's wall and did the same thing as you with Amar, only I kept a close eye on the trail/direction he went to help narrow down which one he was. Stalker picked me up when Amar's fire dot caught me off guard. It wasn't until after each fight I remembered the abilities 🤦‍♀️felt like a right clown lmao.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Same. Brute forced my dumbass through Boreal's wall and did the same thing as you with Amar, only I kept a close eye on the trail/direction he went to help narrow down which one he was. Stalker picked me up when Amar's fire dot caught me off guard. It wasn't until after each fight I remembered the abilities 🤦‍♀️felt like a right clown lmao.

Oh, and about Amar, Hunhow said that when he duplicated, only a "keen eye" could pick him out. As I found out when fighting him, there actually was a difference to the one which was real. (It had a different particle effect, or really a lack of one.) I found that very interesting and also very cool when I was playing.

Edited by Viridian_Dawn
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13 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Christmas vacation? Happens yearly?? DE aren't robots available 24/7???

That's also no excuse for 'REEEEEE TOO HARD' non-constructive feedback posts. Discussions went downhill because of said non-constructive posts imo.

Yes and I believe it was a HUGE mistake to drop this the week before Christmas, they should have pushed it forward or back 2 weeks to avoid this happening. MMO rule number 1, never ever drop a major patch right before a long holiday. 

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4 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

Yes and I believe it was a HUGE mistake to drop this the week before Christmas, they should have pushed it forward or back 2 weeks to avoid this happening. MMO rule number 1, never ever drop a major patch right before a long holiday. 

Well considering the update was great for 98% of the player base I say there was no issue dropping it when they did. PS. They had a week to crush major bugs and whining about difficulty was apparently not a high enough priority.

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I've given up helping trying to help stuck players. I and others try saying stuff like "keep on the move in the archon fights" or "take it slowly in the stealth bit on Fortuna and you'll be fine" and all I get is "WAHHH THIS ISN'T MY POWER FANTASY, THIS SUCKS!!"

New war was a pretty damn good quest. Doubly so considering what state the world is in now, I agree with the whole open letter, and look forward to what the next year brings.

 

...still don't like prime resurgence tho, should just let us grind more free aya to buy the primes...that a separate issue tho

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1 hour ago, Kconvey said:

I have a major major issue with your post that I have brought up before.

The warning is utterly and completely useless.... you have NO WAY of knowing the quest and the archon fight is going to be too hard till you play it... and find out ....and stay with me here... its TOO HARD.

Seriously are you supposed to be imparted the knowledge of how hard the quest is, from the dark matter of the universe or something?

I found the archon fight to be harder than anything in Horizon Zero Dawn on a normal playthrough. That is way way too hard for a gamelocking event. The quest was clearly rushed to get it out for holidays and not properly tested for difficulty. 

That's how all video games work though? No one knows how hard a game is before playing it, there's no reason for this to be any different. If something is difficult you have to practice till it becomes easier and eventually beat it. And it seems that the difficulty of the bosses is not widely agreed upon. From what I read from the forums only a few loud voices have really expressed that the bosses are "impossible". So if the bosses aren't even that hard, it seems you are just unwilling to be patient enough to actually attempt the boss multiple times. I am usually very critical of DE, and this quest has a lot of problems, but difficulty is not one of them. Just keep at it and you will get it.

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54 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

two weeks of utter silence from the devs.

... Don't take me wrong, but that what vacation (or holidays) are for... The right to disconnect from the tox- -job for a given period of time in order to rest...

 

... I shouldn't really have to point that out, even a grade student knows this...

 

------------------------------ x ------------------------------

 

43 minutes ago, (PSN)Elvenbane said:

The solution to getting inside the blue field to counter its healing isn't intuitive.

I'm not going to say that everyone should be of the same standard in which those kinds of solutions should be instinctive rather than intuitive, but for each player, the next is always different than the last.

However, everyone that participated in the quest (completed it or otherwise) got some really useful info to help them out, which was given by

43 minutes ago, (PSN)Elvenbane said:

Hunhow

... the only thing people should've had prior accepting this quest is knowing how to listen... and that's what people had to do with his explanations... That's right, they were explanations, not hints...

It isn't just the act of listening that matters, its actually how you do it and the understanding you get just by doing it...  But hey, my brain is probably hardwired by now for understanding beyond the obvious after seeing 1031 episodes of Meitantei Conan... I don't know, I just find it weird that so many have, just like me, the physical capability to listen... but don't really know how to listen.

 

This isn't specific bashing towards anyone, its a generic advice that people should take into consideration for The New War quest if they haven't started/completed it yet and/or for future upcoming quests that may appear...

Edited by Uhkretor
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11 minutes ago, WillD4Pill said:

That's how all video games work though? No one knows how hard a game is before playing it, there's no reason for this to be any different. If something is difficult you have to practice till it becomes easier and eventually beat it. And it seems that the difficulty of the bosses is not widely agreed upon. From what I read from the forums only a few loud voices have really expressed that the bosses are "impossible". So if the bosses aren't even that hard, it seems you are just unwilling to be patient enough to actually attempt the boss multiple times. I am usually very critical of DE, and this quest has a lot of problems, but difficulty is not one of them. Just keep at it and you will get it.

This just isnt true...

I know soulslikes are going to suck without ever having to play another one. I know Yakuza games are going to be awesome without having to play the new one first. 

 

The new war isnt like any other mission or activity in Warframe, its a totally different beast. They warn you about necramechs and railjacks, and literally the only problem I had with that, was the breach refused to animate twice so I couldnt patch it. There wasnt even a hint about this weird drifter bs gameplay being the problem. 

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