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Open Letter to the Warframe Community and Digital Extremes regarding The New War and reactions to it.


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4 minutes ago, schilds said:

@(PSN)JustJoshinEnt

The argument that because *some* people can do something then *everyone* can do it, is not logically sound. I can't address a point that makes no sense to me (other than to say it makes no sense to me).

Being that the 'something' is a video game then yes, everyone who was able to play the previous quests can, if they put in the effort. That not everyone is willing to do that is another matter. If the vast majority of young and old people can do something then what's the excuse of those that can't?

Secondly, why should everything be geared towards those that don't want to put in the effort? That don't want to read the warnings, that don't want to listen, don't want to watch, don't want to learn?

 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You're definitely overthinking this.  NOBODY knows what DE "needs" better than DE.  This is basically like "mansplaining" but from players to devs.  

DE knows their metrics, their financial needs, their playerbase numbers, etc.  Better than ANY of us, I'd reckon.  They DO know what they're doing.

Our little anecdotes here on the forums aren't really data points that will sway or surprise ANYONE at DE one way or another.

Steve isn't going to pop in and be like "Oh, well if "EDGE_LORD_FRED" says we need a nerf to the boss, I guess my hands are tied! I mean, I only went through TONS of schooling and YEARS of dev experience, but I mean... Fred CLEARLY knows better what's best for the game I design... so... "

DE know it's bottom line.  Leave that to DE.  Worry about YOUR experience, not theirs.

fair enough, like always my patience has payed off as i know i would have been frustrated with the quest in it's current incarnation so i haven't started to play it yet, i'm going to wait and see how this situation is going to develop. so far the post quest gameplay stuff is almost non-existent so i'm not missing much.

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Just now, Kconvey said:

Not surprising, the people who liked it, liked it and the people didnt, and both sides are deeply deeply entrenched in their positions.

but opinion on whether or not people "liked" the quest is NOT what's being debated here.

People are outright claiming it's "objectively flawed" in that it is "too difficult" and "NEEDS" to be made easier for those who cannot or will not adapt and grow.

And that is just demonstrably untrue.  

It is a challenging quest, and it makes no attempt to convince the players otherwise.  Therefore, if you take on a difficult quest, expect it to be difficult.

That you "like" it is subjective, and you're entitled to your opinions therein... but opinions do not attempt to declare themselves as facts that warrant or require fundamental changes to the content.  THAT is where we're "going in circles"... because that flawed logic is being pointed out, repeatedly, and rather than accepting the flaw in one's argument and changing the argument to a better defensible stance, instead we're just getting "NU UH! YOU'RE wrong!" back in response, which isn't really moving things forward.

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Just now, (PSN)kite9000 said:

Being that the 'something' is a video game then yes, everyone who was able to play the previous quests can, if they put in the effort. That not everyone is willing to do that is another matter. If the vast majority of young and old people can do something then what's the excuse of those that can't?

Secondly, why should everything be geared towards those that don't want to put in the effort? That don't want to read the warnings, that don't want to listen, don't want to watch, don't want to learn?

 

Preach Neil Degrasse Tyson GIF

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2 minutes ago, _junguler said:

fair enough, like always my patience has payed off as i know i would have been frustrated with the quest in it's current incarnation so i haven't started to play it yet, i'm going to wait and see how this situation is going to develop. so far the post quest gameplay stuff is almost non-existent so i'm not missing much.

We don't eat steaks for the crap we take after...

So why play the story just for the post-quest gameplay? 

Play the quest to enjoy the quest, as-is.  It's solid story, great twists (assuming you've not spoiled it all for yourself here already). 

Worry about later, later.  DE has said very clearly that there is much more to come, and the quest supports that.

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2 minutes ago, _junguler said:

fair enough, like always my patience has payed off as i know i would have been frustrated with the quest in it's current incarnation so i haven't started to play it yet, i'm going to wait and see how this situation is going to develop. so far the post quest gameplay stuff is almost non-existent so i'm not missing much.

I think you're making a huge mistake by just hanging back and gathering Intel about a quest. It should be an experience. Should it prove to be too difficult, we're all here to assist. That said, spoiling the experience greatly lessens that experience.

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

but opinion on whether or not people "liked" the quest is NOT what's being debated here.

People are outright claiming it's "objectively flawed" in that it is "too difficult" and "NEEDS" to be made easier for those who cannot or will not adapt and grow.

And that is just demonstrably untrue.  

It is a challenging quest, and it makes no attempt to convince the players otherwise.  Therefore, if you take on a difficult quest, expect it to be difficult.

That you "like" it is subjective, and you're entitled to your opinions therein... but opinions do not attempt to declare themselves as facts that warrant or require fundamental changes to the content.  THAT is where we're "going in circles"... because that flawed logic is being pointed out, repeatedly, and rather than accepting the flaw in one's argument and changing the argument to a better defensible stance, instead we're just getting "NU UH! YOU'RE wrong!" back in response, which isn't really moving things forward.

Nothing in this game has been this level of difficulty before this. 

My opinion is also that the quest was too damn hard, that you did not find it so, does not in any way invalidate my opinion.

 

So in essence, "NUH UH you're wrong"

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)kite9000 said:

Being that the 'something' is a video game then yes, everyone who was able to play the previous quests can, if they put in the effort. That not everyone is willing to do that is another matter. If the vast majority of young and old people can do something then what's the excuse of those that can't?

Secondly, why should everything be geared towards those that don't want to put in the effort? That don't want to read the warnings, that don't want to listen, don't want to watch, don't want to learn?

 

so true my dude- why games has to be driven and balance around these people who don't want to think and put some effort and most importantly to improve and try different things

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think you're making a huge mistake by just hanging back and gathering Intel about a quest. It should be an experience. Should it prove to be too difficult, we're all here to assist. That said, spoiling the experience greatly lessens that experience.

The experience greatly lessened the experience.... sorry

I was so frustrated and angry that I was just skipping dialogue just to get through the horrible thing.

 

Also sometimes just advice or even videos wont get someone through a certain difficult section. 

Edited by Kconvey
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Just now, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

We don't eat steaks for the crap we take after...

So why play the story just for the post-quest gameplay? 

Play the quest to enjoy the quest, as-is.  It's solid story, great twists (assuming you've not spoiled it all for yourself here already). 

Worry about later, later.  DE has said very clearly that there is much more to come, and the quest supports that.

1 minute ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think you're making a huge mistake by just hanging back and gathering Intel about a quest. It should be an experience. Should it prove to be too difficult, we're all here to assist. That said, spoiling the experience greatly lessens that experience.

i don't enjoy the lore/story of the game that much, i'm there for the gameplay only.

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20 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

Nothing in this game has been this level of difficulty before this. 

My opinion is also that the quest was too damn hard, that you did not find it so, does not in any way invalidate my opinion.

 

So in essence, "NUH UH you're wrong"

First time Tridolon/Profit-Taker are absolutely harder than the Archons, especially considering you have unlimited retries for the Archons. I'd argue that most Spy missions on the star chart (when done as intended) are as challenging as the stealth sections in New War. 

And if you're going to take the stance that opinions don't invalidate other opinions, then you can't say, "...you're wrong" either lol. 

Edited by WillD4Pill
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1 minute ago, WillD4Pill said:

First time Tridolon/Profit-Taker are absolutely harder than the Archons, especially considering you have unlimited retries for the Archons. I'd argue that most Spy missions on the star chart (when does as intended) are as challenging as the stealth sections in New War. 

And if you're going to take the stance that opinions don't invalidate other opinions, then you can't say, "...you're wrong" either lol. 

That last part was more snark than anything, I guessed you missed it. 

But my original point still stands, both sides on this are sooooooo deeply entrenched, neither is going to budge even a smidgeon of an inch.

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2 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

That last part was more snark than anything, I guessed you missed it. 

But my original point still stands, both sides on this are sooooooo deeply entrenched, neither is going to budge even a smidgeon of an inch.

Except the camp that says the quest's difficulty is fine is just trying to help the other side so we can all move along. They're literally doing everything in service of the other lol. But the other side just refuses to take the advice or put in the time to actually play the game because they don't know how to cope with failing. Difficulty is subjective, but only to a certain degree. Nothing, especially not in Warframe, is too difficult to pass. Unless there is some external factor preventing you from completing the game, then there is really no excuse. The more I read through this thread the more I realize that the people who are complaining about difficulty are not entrenched in their opinions, that would imply their thoughts are based off objective facts. It's just their stubbornness and impatience that are too deeply entrenched in them. If you don't want to put in the time then that's your prerogative, but the problem doesn't lie with the game. 

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7 minutes ago, Kconvey said:

But my original point still stands, both sides on this are sooooooo deeply entrenched, neither is going to budge even a smidgeon of an inch.

I actually want a harder game. I am not against skill checks. I just understand why some people might get frustrated and vent when the game advertises itself one way (gear, co-op) and then switches and locks them out after they've already invested significant playtime. I don't think those people are trolling or whatever. I think they're understandably frustrated.

I also understand why some players worry the game weill stagnate. I've been that person cussing at a youtuber who is telling DE "this isn't warframe, it needs to be X, Y, Z".

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30 minutes ago, (PSN)kite9000 said:

Being that the 'something' is a video game then yes, everyone who was able to play the previous quests can, if they put in the effort. That not everyone is willing to do that is another matter. If the vast majority of young and old people can do something then what's the excuse of those that can't?

Secondly, why should everything be geared towards those that don't want to put in the effort? That don't want to read the warnings, that don't want to listen, don't want to watch, don't want to learn?

 

100% this goodshit.gif

45 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

There's MEANT to be struggle.. it's the new friggin WAR, not the "New Scuffle Outside The Lunchroom Whilst Wearing Oven Mitts".   Good grief...

lmao.gif

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Look, telling people that they have a bad attitude isn't being "helpful". Telling them that they're "trolling" isn't being "helpful". Questioning whether they are being truthful about their disability isn't being "helpful" either. If someone is frustrated, how about showing a little tolerance? *You* can't fix their frustration, but you *can* refrain from escalating things just because you dislike their behaviour. People behave poorly when they're stressed, who knew ...

Maybe you did try to help. Maybe they rejected it.  They probably weren't gracious about it, even. So what? You move on. You don't compound the problem by injecting your own intolerance.

Hanging around to start abusing them (e.g. by calling them trolls or whatever) under the excuse that "they were loud and obnoxious" isn't the right way to respond. Were you just trying to help them for your own self-gratification? That's what we call hypocrisy.

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10 hours ago, Viridian_Dawn said:

 

The two biggest issues I see people complain about are these: The Archon fight, and not being able to quit The New War once they start.
I think that the Archon fight is not that bad, but this is from someone who plays warframe alot. For a “casual gamer” as some people say, I agree with the fact that it is probably quite difficult. I think that maybe making the Archons have less health would help so you can kill them quicker, and maybe making them do less damage would help. But I personally would go with making them have less health so you can do more damage to them, and possibly get through the fight faster/easier

This wasn't my experience with the Archons At All and there for I can't agree with The Solution you propose...

One thing you will have noticed is all the Try Hards telling players who got Stuck to Try Rolling and Moving around more.... This particular Advice is useless to me because I was already doing this .... Boreal Kept Hitting despite my Frantic Rolling and Amar was Able to Damage me even though his Attacks didn't Even Touch Me....

Based on 3 Other Play Throughs I watched I'm Definitely not the only one this Happened to. 

I reckon the main Difficulty in the new war is setting up a Situation that seems like you are suppose to use the Rolling and Movement to Avoid Damage but the Bosses are either Far too Accurate or the Hit Detection is too Wonky to allow this to Actually Happen...

This might explain why some players are so Toxic about the whole thing because it feels like some kind of lame joke to put you in that Situation where the only Defensive Mechanic that doesn't have a Cool Down doesn't even Work better than just Cheesing the Bosses from Behind the Game's Geometry.

The Solution I propose is Much Simpler.... Turn Down the Excessive Aim  Botting so that Rolling Actually lets you evade Boreal's Lazers and Go Back and Resize the The Hitbox on Amar's Attacks so that Damage Doesn't Get Registered unless Amar actually did Physically make Contact with me...

This would allow the Try Hards to continue telling the players who are Stuck to Dodge and have it be Actually useful Advice rather than some troll Response....

But hey... That's just my Perspective....

10 hours ago, Viridian_Dawn said:

 

Then there is the argument over not being able to quit The New War once you begin the quest. I personally think that this argument is a bit nonsensical, as in order to start The New War, you are given a prompt that says you will not be able to change your loadout or do normal Warframe things once you begin the quest, and in order to being, you have to type “NEWWAR”

This can be fixed just by Changing the Warning:

"The New War Takes Away All Your Toys and Doesn't Resemble The Base Game in any Way Shape or Form... You won't be able to access all the goodies you grinded so hard for until it's over, Preparation makes Little to No Difference... Teen Abuse Included.... Type "NULLIFIERS RULE" To Continue"

I mean if you phrase it like that then that Warning Perfectly Informs players exactly what they are getting into ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

In all honestly I'm more concerned with why they decided to design the quest in such a way that warranted a warning in the first place.... Let a lone a warning that isn't even accurate to begin with.

10 hours ago, Viridian_Dawn said:

 

Another thing I suggest is regarding the selecting the Lotus at the end of The New War. I think that the prompt where you confirm your pick should also say something along the lines of “Remember, you are not picking this from your point of view, you are picking it from Natah/Lotus/Margulis’ point of view. Pick what you think she would pick.” From what I’ve been seeing, a lot of people are picking based on appearance alone. There are some people picking based on events, but I think people should be reminded that they are picking Natah/Lotus/Margulis based on what they think she would want. Not what the Tenno would want. However, I am okay with people picking based off of the name, as it is permanent. I think people would be a lot less concerned about it if they knew they could change what she looks like, but I think not knowing that adds to the pick.
There is only one more slight issue I have. Teshin. I just want to know why you killed him off (if he is actually dead), and didn’t mention it. Erra just kills him and that’s that. I just want to know the reason behind it, that’s all.

Again... This can be fixed just by Clarifying The Warning. All they have to do is is Type "Appearance can be Changed Later" at the End in Brackets....

I want a Do Over on This Choice....

 

 

 

 

Other than the Stuff I just Whined about just now I liked The Quest.... Especially once I got a Chance to fix my Drifter's Face before it was too late.... I'm always done for any and All Content Featuring Mom... 👍

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4 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You really DID miss their whole point, though, if THAT is your response. 

They NEVER said you shouldn't have opinions, nor that they ought be all positive.  ONLY that your "feedback" ought be CONSTRUCTIVE, not just destructive. 

It's not enough to say "x BAD"... you need to include "x might be better IF...." etc.  Otherwise, you're not really proposing solutions, you're just saying you don't like it.

Saying "I HATE this meatloaf!" is not constructive.  "I think this meatloaf is bland and could use more salt, perhaps a bit more spice" is constructive. It gives the creator somewhere to GO with the feedback. 

The issues with RJ were more about functionality and accessibility.  TNW is not a widely accessible quest because it's not meant to be. It's "endgame" in terms of story, currently.  Expecting a certain level of skill and awareness of the game is not unreasonable.  Functionally, TNW is completely "doable".  I'm an idiot with games and I still beat 'em (even if it took me more than a few tries on certain archons and spy segments).  There were no game-breaking bugs in TNW that prevented progression UNLIKE RJ.

So no, again, shouting "TNW BAD!" at DE isn't going to encourage any improvements or changes.  It's clearly doable just fine as it is.

You're fine to have your opinions, but do not state them as facts that "need to be heard".  Not all opinions are created with equal merit.  Not all feedback needs to be implemented.

The point you missed is DE ignores ANY feedback that is "constructive" as a company, outright, culture thereof. Your assumptions about railjack aren't even kind of accurate. They aren't even on the planet, much less the same page.

DE, particularly three of their main constructors automagically assume that ANY content put forth is by it's existence and no other criteria, is desired and accepted by design, fullstop. From eight years of public discourse, this policy is very very clearly not the case, and never has been.

Your assumptions that the sole reason for dislike of TNW is "omg hards so hards omg omg wha happen" is also not even in the right zipcode much less contextually on topic.

And your assumption that majority of people that dislike RJ complained about it at all are also anecdotal at best. They didn't complain once, they just stopped and when DE doubled down on something already unliked, they just stayed away permanently. That's how it works and the assumption DE is immune to this phenomena is entirely false.

Edited by -Kittens-
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15 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

The point you missed is DE ignores ANY feedback that is "constructive" as a company, outright, culture thereof. Your assumptions about railjack aren't even kind of accurate. They aren't even on the planet, much less the same page.

DE, particularly three of their main constructors automagically assume that ANY content put forth is by it's existence and no other criteria, is desired and accepted by design, fullstop. From eight years of public discourse, this policy is very very clearly not the case, and never has been.

Your assumptions that the sole reason for dislike of TNW is "omg hards so hards omg omg wha happen" is also not even in the right zipcode much less contextually on topic.

And you assumption that majority of people that dislike RJ complained about it at all are also anecdotal at best. They didn't complain once, they just stopped and when DE doubled down on something already unliked, they just stayed away permanently. That's how it works and the assumption DE is immune to this phenomena is entirely false.

No. None of this. I know this is a giant hamster wheel of nowhere, however what you just wrote is false.

First, Railjack 2.0 was the direct result of feedback. So was Xaku, Ember, melee, the big QoL update, etc. Let's not get it twisted though: bad criticism, bad direction, counter direction, dead end direction, horrible timing and poor overall conception of the scope of the game are ALL part of the giant pile of gunk DE has to go through when making an update or a change. On this forum lies countoess examples of all of those types of criticisms that DE cannot use to change the game....along with the few ideas that DE actually CAN use that falls within scope. Remember, we're an omnidirectional player base who can't even decide if a quest is actually hard or not so we, the players, are the problem. Don't ever blame DE for our failures like  not posting feedback IN FEEDBACK.

Spice it up however you want but if any player thinks they have a right to change a dev's vision, they are sadly mistaken. It's their game first.

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53 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

No. None of this. I know this is a giant hamster wheel of nowhere, however what you just wrote is false.

First, Railjack 2.0 was the direct result of feedback. So was Xaku, Ember, melee, the big QoL update, etc. Let's not get it twisted though: bad criticism, bad direction, counter direction, dead end direction, horrible timing and poor overall conception of the scope of the game are ALL part of the giant pile of gunk DE has to go through when making an update or a change. On this forum lies countoess examples of all of those types of criticisms that DE cannot use to change the game....along with the few ideas that DE actually CAN use that falls within scope. Remember, we're an omnidirectional player base who can't even decide if a quest is actually hard or not so we, the players, are the problem. Don't ever blame DE for our failures like  not posting feedback IN FEEDBACK.

Spice it up however you want but if any player thinks they have a right to change a dev's vision, they are sadly mistaken. It's their game first.

Moving numbers around is not responding to feedback. Moving variables around is not meaningful change in any context.

It doesn't matter whom the game belongs to if it is not played, and no amount of semantics you put out will have any effect on that.

Edited by -Kittens-
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6 hours ago, WillD4Pill said:

No game in history has ever had a warning sign that said "This might be too hard for you"

... Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom 2016 and its sequel (to the best of my knowledge) are a few games, just from the top of my head, that disagree with you so...

I don't know, you might want to actually learn the past in order to know the present but never to conquer the future...

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2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Moving numbers around is not responding to feedback. Moving variables around is not meaningful change in any context.

It doesn't matter whom the game belongs to if it is not played, and no amount of semantics you put out will have any effect on that.

Yes...and for almost nine years, DE has taken all of this "lack of meaningful x,y,z" rhetoric and tossed it into the garbage where it belongs and, justifiably, chose to focus on the players that understand the product. Entire game consoles struggle to last this long so I tend to trust DE and their "not meaningful" changes a LOT more than those who are shouting it. You guys have failed to sway the content and I'm grateful for that because the game would've long died under that rhetoric.

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7 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Every operator based quest does this and NO ONE complained. NO ONE. The War Within and the Sacrifice both had operator play that prevented gear access. 

Honestly, this is ridiculous.

I Complained.... 

In any case The War With In is mostly Cinematic... Even more So Than The New War is....

You mostly play as the Operator but you arent being asked to do anything beyond solve a few Puzzles until The Final Boss Showdown.... Where you have your Warframe....

Chains of Harrow and The Sacrifice have Operator only sections but those Sections allowed for Customised Operators with Tricked Out Arcanes, Amps and Focus Schools.... Granted I literally didn't have any of those but hey... Some people did and they had a Good Time...

Neither of those Scenarios match up with The Drifter in The New War where it literally just feels like Farming Grendel all over again but Significantly Worse as this time you Zero Load Out Choices what so ever....

7 hours ago, (PSN)kite9000 said:

If the vast majority of young and old people can do something then what's the excuse of those that can't?

Why don't you ask them ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

7 hours ago, (PSN)kite9000 said:

Secondly, why should everything be geared towards those that don't want to put in the effort? That don't want to read the warnings, that don't want to listen, don't want to watch, don't want to learn?

You've never heard of Difficulty Options ? 🤔

They allow the game to be geared to multiple types of people.... Not just Try Hards or Scrubs....

7 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:


It is a challenging quest, and it makes no attempt to convince the players otherwise.  Therefore, if you take on a difficult quest, expect it to be difficult

It's a Cinematic Quest...

Personally I think The Difficulty in the Quest is purely accidental as it comes from Forced Stealth Sections in a Non-Stealth Game... A Tired Trope if ever there was one .......and Aimbot Bosses with Phantom Hitboxes....

I don't think the Quest was intended to be Hard because I don't Think Amar was intented to Shoot me through the Game's Geometry and Deal Damage to me when he clearly didn't even Touch me....

Much in the same way I don't think DE counted on players doing the Quest with literaly a freshly built Railjack that has Absolutely nothing Installed on it what so ever or the Worst Amp in The Game... The Mote Amp....

Naturally Sections that aren't intended to be Difficult will seem difficult to players playing under Those Conditions.... Which DE didn't Account for...

 

Atleast that's my Theory....

The New War was never intended to be Hard.... It was supposed to be just like all the previous Cinematic Quests that Came Before.... But was Botched by Aimbot AI and Bugs which the Try Hards have misinterpreted as Difficulty Features 👀....

7 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

We don't eat steaks for the crap we take after...

So why play the story just for the post-quest gameplay? 

Tell that to the player's whinging on about the lack of Post Quest Content.... Junguler isn't even Complaining about it... He/She is merely stating their Observations with no Negative Connotations....

7 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I think you're making a huge mistake by just hanging back and gathering Intel about a quest. It should be an experience. Should it prove to be too difficult, we're all here to assist. That said, spoiling the experience greatly lessens that experience.

The people who got Stuck and Frustrated would Disagree....

Besides.... If Railjack has taught us Anything it's that it's Always good to wait... LoL.... 3 Reworks and it's Still Chock Full Bugs 🤣.

7 hours ago, qvpdampe87 said:

so true my dude- why games has to be driven and balance around these people who don't want to think and put some effort and most importantly to improve and try different things

Again.... Have you never heard of Difficulty Options ? 🤔

7 hours ago, _junguler said:

i don't enjoy the lore/story of the game that much, i'm there for the gameplay only.

There's something for Everyone 😁 !!!

7 hours ago, WillD4Pill said:

. I'd argue that most Spy missions on the star chart (when done as intended) are as challenging as the stealth sections in New War. 

I wouldn't.... And that Includes spy missions I haven't done yet as I can use Max Efficiency Ivara with The Infiltrate Augment to Learn them....

I would also have Primed Animal Instinct to make my Map Actually Useful Instead of being Blank all the time when I'm Clearly surrounded by One Hit Kill Invincible Enemies....

Why is having a Functional Map an Ability with a 20 Second Cool Down 🤔 ?

Is being able to make informed Decisions really so broken that they have to put a Cool Down on it ? 😱

7 hours ago, schilds said:

Look, telling people that they have a bad attitude isn't being "helpful". Telling them that they're "trolling" isn't being "helpful". Questioning whether they are being truthful about their disability isn't being "helpful" either. If someone is frustrated, how about showing a little tolerance? *You* can't fix their frustration, but you *can* refrain from escalating things just because you dislike their behaviour. People behave poorly when they're stressed, who knew ...

Pretty Much....

I would also like to Add telling people to press the Dodge Button on top of that....

I mean yeah sure it might be Possible there's someone out there who never thought to Actually do this but do players really think the majority of people are stuck because it never Occured to them to press The Dodge Button 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀👀 !!!! That sort of thinking is just an Petty Argument waiting to explode.

7 hours ago, schilds said:

 

Maybe you did try to help. Maybe they rejected it.  They probably weren't gracious about it, even. So what? You move on. You don't compound the problem by injecting your own intolerance.

Hanging around to start abusing them (e.g. by calling them trolls or whatever) under the excuse that "they were loud and obnoxious" isn't the right way to respond. Were you just trying to help them for your own self-gratification? That's what we call hypocrisy.

That's Deep !!! 👀

5 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Don't ever blame DE for our failures like  not posting feedback IN FEEDBACK.

I won't blame DE in this case because as it turns out the Majority of people don't Actually post Feedback in The Feedback Section.... 

What they do is play Armchair Developer and suggest changes that could be made if they were in charge... Luckily some players do accompany these Suggestions with Actual Feedback but that doesn't Change the Fact that DE has to wade through things that they never asked for just to figure out The Root Cause of The Problem....

You know what's funny....

Some people don't understand the Difference Between Feedback and a Suggestion.... And my Attempts to try and clarify this misunderstanding was fruitless....

5 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

 

Spice it up however you want but if any player thinks they have a right to change a dev's vision, they are sadly mistaken. It's their game first.

Indeed....

But it's also a Silly Hill to Die on.... 

The Developer of The Swindle.

220px-TheSwindle.jpg

Was going through some of the Feedback and noticed that some players were reporting that the algorithm responsible for procedurally Generating The Levels was Creating Doorless Rooms that could only by Accessed Blowing them Up with Bombs... Players though this was a Bug because you couldn't blow these Rooms Open without Setting Off the Alarms....

Turns out it's not a Bug ... The Designer intensionally designed the Algorithm so that it would Specifically create these Doorless Rooms and that attempting to get inside would break Stealth....

Rather than accepting this Feedback and Doing something about it... He effectively wrote a Blog Post Telling those players the Developers Equivalent of "Git Gud".... 😐

The Swindle is still considered an Fun game by alot of people.... But if the Developer had just pulled his head out if his own ass long enough to accept some feedback and address those concerns then it could have been even Better just like Hades currently is....

220px-Hades_cover_art.jpg

Hades values feedback so much they even Credited Developer Titles to all the Community Members who managed the Discord Server....

I don't know how Close the Final Product is from the what Super Giant Games originally wanted it to be... But atleast they are on good terms with their Community....

After all I'm still playing Hades despite exhausting most of its Content while I've never even seen the 2nd World of The Swindle because the Doorless Rooms are just the Tip of the Ice Berg when it comes to how Wonky the Level Generator is.... 👀

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1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Have you never heard of Difficulty Options ?

What about them? Care to point out where there's difficulty option settings for MR tests? Or how about for Steel path missions? I must also have overlooked them for nightmare missions I guess.

The point is that the game has no difficulty options except for missions getting harder and harder because of higher level enemies with more shields, armor, health. That's pretty much it. There for anyone that goes into a mission after been duly notified that they won't have a way out except finishing it and that does so with crappy gear or without checking if they are familiar enough with the general present day game play have made a choice.

Warframe is famous and notorious for not holding hands. Anyone that has played this game for more then a couple of hours knows this. The problem isn't there for the difficult level of the quest but the sense of entitlement, the laziness, the lack of patience and the unwillingness to adapt that some display.

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