Arbitration Defense target avatar killed by nothing after 37 waves [FIXED]

[Maelstronomer]

Update: It is fixed!

16 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Made it impossible for enemies to be able to detonate/shoot down player explosive projectiles (Ogris for example).

• Prior to this change, while rare, it was possible for enemies to shoot down explosives and cause damage to players/objectives. Given that this was essentially unpredictable and unavoidable, we have removed the ability for enemies to do so. 

 

 

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The Arbitration mission I was in randomly failed at wave 37. The logs claim the defense target was killed: 8369.202 Script [Info]: WaveDefend.lua: Defense target avatar killed!

I am the Host of the session and this was a full squad of buddies.

This happened at around 11:50 PM EST, January 5, 2022 (an hour ago)

Launcher and Engine versions are 2022.01.04.11.11

Resources lost: A few dozen vitus essence after half an hour+. Some Rotation rewards remained.

Extra info: A defense target has gone from full health to zero (from nothing) twice today and I managed to record this one. None of us have radiation/confusion status and nothing seemed to hit the defense target. My weapon is Viral status only.

I have submitted a ticket to the zendesk with the full EE logs (etc) and a link to the video:

Thank you and I hope this is followed-through

[Maelstronomer]

Update: I looked through the EE.log and at mission failure it says:

8369.298 Game [Info]: Arbiters of Hexis Operative was killed by 40,210 / 42,261 damage from a level 128 ARSON using a CrpBriefcaseLauncher

The previously-mentioned other defense mission also has logs:

1426.088 Game [Info]: SevenRingz was downed by 237 / 236 damage from a level 131 KUVA HYEKKA MASTER using a CrpBriefcaseLauncher

1426.197 Game [Info]: KUVA INJECTOR was killed by 176,289 / 236,438 damage from a level 131 KUVA HYEKKA MASTER using a CrpBriefcaseLauncher

I don't know if it's the envoy itself or some hyekka ability, or bugged eximus aura. There is a lot of stuff I don't understand above and below each of these log points

 

Thanks and good luck

 

[Maelstronomer]

The support ticket ID with the logs is #2727525

[Maelstronomer]

My squadmate has a theory: enemies can shoot your missile, dealing scaled damage based on your own weapon mods and their level scaling.

This has never happened with my kuva zarr but has happened with my envoy. I use both a lot for all mission types

 

My own theory is big eximus auras can bug projectile ownership of certain types of weapons (maybe multishotted projectiles).

[LillyRaccune]

There are a few weapons where secondary explosions and effects have caused self-damage. Causing friendly fire would be new aspect of this.

1 minute ago, Maelstronomer said:

My squadmate has a theory: enemies can shoot your missile, dealing scaled damage based on your own weapon mods and their level scaling.

That sounds reasonable. There are the attacks from the Grineer Bombards, you can shoot/melee their bullets in mid-flight and the game engine attributes those explosion as damage we dealt even tho Bombard pulled the trigger.

I'm interested to see what the Support Team will have to say! It would explain a number of mysterious simultaneous-team-deaths I have experienced in the past.

[RLanzinger]

On 2022-01-06 at 7:52 AM, LillyRaccune said:

I'm interested to see what the Support Team will have to say! It would explain a number of mysterious simultaneous-team-deaths I have experienced in the past.

I dig up another plausible explanation :

FROM WIKIA : WEAPON / DAMAGE / RADIATION / CONFUSION :
"If a player is afflicted by the Confusion debuff (in the form of  Radiation proc), they receive an accuracy penalty in addition to being able to damage other players and allied NPCs (such as the Rescue target or Defense/Mobile Defense objective) with their weapons and abilities. Likewise, any unirradiated players can damage the irradiated player inadvertently. Players with this debuff also cannot revive any downed ally, even if they were already in the process of doing so."

Theory is : Player A, unaffected by anything shoot AoE Ogris (CrpBriefcaseLauncher) on enemies but squadmates+Operative affected by Confusion take Damage too...

 

Got the similar sudden death problems (may also be just lags + host)

 

[maaleru]

3 часа назад, RLanzinger сказал:

I dig up another plausible explanation :

 

In order for receiving team damage via radiation, the radiation status must be inflicted on either the damage dealer or the recipient.

I'm... not sure if any of the enemies spawning on that mission can apply the radiation status.

 

[RobWasHere]

27 minutes ago, maaleru said:

 

In order for receiving team damage via radiation, the radiation status must be inflicted on either the damage dealer or the recipient.

I'm... not sure if any of the enemies spawning on that mission can apply the radiation status.

 

On that map it is possible only during sorties. Elemental Enhancement Heat condition mixes with electricity from the trolley cables or lightning storms, giving rad procs sometimes.

[LillyRaccune]

Question: Does the Gas procs with Mirage Hall of Mirrors still classify as "neutral faction" damage? Neutral as in, "damages everyone" neutral.

[Maelstronomer]

2 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Question: Does the Gas procs with Mirage Hall of Mirrors still classify as "neutral faction" damage? Neutral as in, "damages everyone" neutral.

No (tested)

8 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

I dig up another plausible explanation :

FROM WIKIA : WEAPON / DAMAGE / RADIATION / CONFUSION :

My report proves my (annoyingly common) instance of the bug is not radiation related

[RLanzinger]

Stupid Question (my speciality) : As I don't have any Ogris, Did anyone try to Go in Classis imulacrum, summon a bunch of Flamethrower unit, go on top of a block and shoot at them to trigger projectile explosion (with max radius) ?

This could be seen in the Death Log, and I'm sure you'd have the proof I can happen.

[maaleru]

10 часов назад, RLanzinger сказал:

Stupid Question (my speciality) : As I don't have any Ogris, Did anyone try to Go in Classis imulacrum, summon a bunch of Flamethrower unit, go on top of a block and shoot at them to trigger projectile explosion (with max radius) ?

This could be seen in the Death Log, and I'm sure you'd have the proof I can happen.

Do you think the reason for this result could be the same as popcorn tenno armed with over-exploding weapons?

>>level 128 ARSON using a CrpBriefcaseLauncher

I can't remember that the flamethrowers arson-eximice were able to repel my own missiles at me in the same way as the nullifiers do.

[RLanzinger]

maaleru "Do you think the reason for this result could be the same as popcorn tenno armed with over-exploding weapons ?" YES 95% sure it is 🤔

Basically, I don't remember the whole things but before my 2 years of non-warframe, My favorite build in Coop-defense with others Lone-Rangers was Frost MAX Range :

1. Because Ogris cloud penetrate the bubble (which was change later),
2. Tenno using Explosives ( Like Me and my Penta ) could Oneshot the Objective when set on fire by Ogris and near grinneer electric rail (fire+heat = radiation),
3. and also a lot more of unexplained n' bothering Sudden Death like LillyRaccune mentionned.

I don't remember all the reasons but a Defensive Max-range Frost was a major key to success. It can bother AoE shooters but still you cannot lose to some obscur event. Arson triggering missiles won't suprise me more than this... I'm 95% sure it is possible if they do enough damage to the projectile (which do not happen in lower level).

EDIT : add-up
I HAD A DREAM ... Last night, a bad one about OGRIS

I don't have Ogris and I hate it; I did not remeber why but last night half asleep I remember some Tenno speaking about elec+fire proc becoming rad and then The wise word of the Founder : "If we can, why can't they do it too ?" 😱.
Basically, I had hated the Orgis because I died a lot in one peculiar mission and when shooting missiles, Grinneer's walls of bullet could trigger the explosive and kabouum I died... multiple of times. My question "Whyyyyy ??? ;_; " and the old awesome jerk of founder told me "If we can shoot they missiles, why can't they do it too ? MUahahAHAHAHAHAH". Mission ended with me DELETING my potatoed Ogris...

Maelstronomer "My squadmate has a theory: enemies can shoot your missile, dealing scaled damage based on your own weapon mods and their level scaling. "

It is not a theory !!! before Plains of eidolons, it really work and I remember NOW that DE at some point rise up the projectiles health to limit this mecanics on lowers levels. It may have been changed numerous of times since but ....

In STEAM there is a discussion about "Proof the Self Damage Bug is Real" with a short 9s video (best seen in 0.25 speed) :

 

[Maelstronomer]

On 2022-01-15 at 11:55 AM, RLanzinger said:

 

 

Interesting video! Vor was mid death-animation and didn't look like he shot the missile. This needs to be fixed 😔It is so disheartening losing a defense target after a very long mission because of this issue

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Bumping this. Just got nuked in a Defense arbitration while using Kuva Ogris
 

 

[LillyRaccune]

I thought this was already confirmed using EE.log. The projectile from our Ogris was bounced-back, and that action removes the Friendly Fire tag from it.