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What's next for WF now that TNW is out?


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1 minute ago, vanaukas said:

and? it's coming regardless

Building on a bad foundation while ignoring the poor foundation is exactly why Railjack is following in the footsteps of Archwing. Same thing with Nightwave following the footsteps of Sortie Seasons or the current situation with the damage system. But hey, what do I know right?

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6 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Building on a bad foundation while ignoring the poor foundation is exactly why Railjack is following in the footsteps of Archwing. Same thing with Nightwave following the footsteps of Sortie Seasons or the current situation with the damage system. But hey, what do I know right?

Still coming, what's your point, do you expect to the,m to halt the steel path railjack update because you have complaints?

suposedly this thread was about was coming, they already announced steel path railjack, so I write "steel path railjack is coming".

That means I'm praising them about it ror what?

I'm ignoring something?

I develop this game?

Go to feedback or press F5 for the rest of the week so you can have your first spot on the update to raise your concerns, IDK, whatever makes you feel better about it.

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4 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Still coming, what's your point, do you expect to the,m to halt the steel path railjack update because you have complaints?

suposedly this thread was about was coming, they already announced steel path railjack, so I write "steel path railjack is coming".

That means I'm praising them about it ror what?

I'm ignoring something?

I develop this game?

Go to feedback or press F5 for the rest of the week so you can have your first spot on the update to raise your concerns, IDK, whatever makes you feel better about it.

SERIOUSLY

"This is coming" (Something the devs have mentioned)

"I don't like that."

"Ok?"

"BuT hEy, WhAt Do I kNow?"

Edited by TomCruisesSon
More specific paraphrasing
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9 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Reduce Taxijack

Taxijack-less gamemode already exist, it's called Skirmish. What DE needs to do is to add Skirmish to Corpus nodes and expand on the game mode like adding new POIs and stuff. 

Before DE add more content to the pile, they need to do another Warframe revised update. Here are the things I would like for DE to address:

1. Void Storm Relic Cracking Pacing.

Void storm is extremely inefficient for relic cracking. On average, a Railjack missions takes around 10 minutes to complete to be able crack ONE relic. During that time period, I can crack 2 relics in a normal endless star chart missions. What can be done to address this? Simple, relic rewards are given and give the ability to choose another relic after each objective completion. For example, if a Corpus non-endless Railjack missions have 2 optional/mandatory POI and one main objective you can crack up to 3 relics in that mission.

2. AOE Meta : Embrace or Annihilate?

I leave this for DE to consider. AoE meta will always exist in a horde shooter game no matter how hard you try to nerf it. The best way to kill AoE is to kill the horde shooter aspect of Warframe, which is the majority of the game's content and this could anger a lot of players because DE takes away the feeling being an unstoppable force tearing through hordes of enemies. In my opinion, the better option is to just embrace it to the rest of the player's arsenal. It significantly slow the hamster wheel of nerfing AoE everytime DE creates a new AoE meta that leaves non-AoE in the dust. How they could do this I leave that to DE.

3. Another update 22.12 like massive Warframe touchups. 

DE should do another balance pass on "only 2 or less abilities that are usable" Warframes like Hydroid, Atlas, Nekros, etc. In my opinion, DE can easily fix most if not all lackluster damage focused Warframe abilities by adding the ability damage scaling formula that Grendel, Xaku, and Vauban have.

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3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Taxijack-less gamemode already exist, it's called Skirmish. What DE needs to do is to add Skirmish to Corpus nodes and expand on the game mode like adding new POIs and stuff. 

That's indeed what I meant.

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What I would personally like to see is a massive overhaul of warrames and weapons to the point, that the game becomes engaging and people actually have to focus on the gameplay. The crazy powercreep and the speed with which we evaporate the enemies and traverse the levels are the primary reason friends of mine quit over the years.

Unfortunately, since the game seems to be a refuge for people, who can't handle basic game mechanics like kiting with a bow, we're unlikely to ever get anything, that will make the game feels engaging, the gameplay and accomplushments meaningful.

I'd also like to see more events like Scarlett Spear, where multiple squads are needed for success. That's the last time when the game felt truly alive for me.

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Despite the pandemic and the nightmare it was for production studios everywhere, DE did a wonderful job fighting through it without their studio. I want them to basically stay the course of the past two years, adding stuff for post New War, then a little bit of Warframe revised and, after that, go their path. 

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What's next is obviously more fashion, 'cannon arm' Valkyr deluxe skin, 'crush me mommy' Hildryn deluxe and 'i stole this dress from mag' Protea deluxe. Oh Khora and Garuda primes, interested to see what design they do, anything has to be better than their deluxes

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12 hours ago, Josh486 said:

Probably the worst way to maintain a playerbase is to appeal to people like you that fundamentally don’t understand how a horde shooter operates. There’s solo mode you know, some people don’t want to, surprisingly, revert several years of changes so you can stop whining about “wahhhhhh DE is giving us ways to deal with hordes in a horde shooter wahhhh”

except warframe isn't classified as a horde shooter, it's closer to a looter shooter. also, you're misinterpreting my argument completely.

i never said "revert the game to the 2015 version", i said reverse the powercreep. this would mean various nerfs, buffs and reworks, not "just yeet everything that's been introduced since then".

also, it has been shown that especially for experienced players, difficulty has a direct impact on their enjoyment of the game, players want to be challenged... at least somewhat. some amount of difficulty is also required for maintaining player attention and engagement, as well as make the player feel like they've achieved something rather than let the game achieve something for them. introducing some amount of difficulty back into the game could very easily have a positive effect on the playerbase.

the pitfall people tend to walk into is the assumption that all forms of difficulty are bad and will lose the game players, this is not necessarily the case and depending on how it is done, this can actually allow the game to gain players, at the same time, not all forms of making the game easier are good, and in fact plenty of changes over the years have caused longer-term veterans to quit. 

sadly, as of recently, it's become pretty apparent that what is actually a minority within this community likes to completely shut down ANY form of discussion on the game's difficulty, using various short-sighted arguments or ad hominem to try and get their correctness. for example by portraying people who talk about the game's difficulty as whiny babies or by telling them "they don't know how the game works"

as for your actual arguments.

first on the "not knowing how a horde shooter operates", i've been playing various forms of PVE shooters for well over a decade, I also spent about four or five years learning various aspects of game design, i spend about as much time analysing the games i play as i do actually playing them. i'd say that at this point, i have a pretty okay in-depth understanding of looter shooters and what makes them tick, what makes them enjoyable and how they retain players. 

as for "but solo mode", the game does not get more challenging on solo mode. an unchallenging game minus the teammates is still an unchallenging game. 

as for "DE is giving us ways to deal with hordes in a horde shooter"... that's a very shortsighted argument, technically, it is correct as anything that deals damage to enemies will allow you to deal with hordes. however, anything that deals damage to enemies will allow you to deal with hordes. this does not have to be constant room nukes (Which is what i assume you're referring to. 

many games have AOE weapons or abilities (or both), in pretty much any game out there, AOEs are bound by their heavy resource cost, be that rare ammo, high cooldowns, large energy costs or what have ya. in warframe, AOE weapons and abilities are not bound by any of this due to various things. some weapons have an incredibly large ammo stockpile for an AOE weapon, you can easily run ammo mutation and resolve the ammo issue entirely, AOE abilities are only limited by your energy which you can get in near infinite quantities via tools like the zenurik energizing dash as well as energy pads, rage and energy siphon (with zenurik's energizing dash being the biggest offender, pads are also an issue but they're kinda less problematic because they're a consumable that costs resources)

we can still EASILY deal with hordes without this, for instance pre-second dream (and thus pre zenurik) in LOR, various crowd control abilities were used to deal with hordes along with various damage buffs and defensive buffs. generally it was normal to have a loki or a valkyr in your group as well to go invisible or invulnerable for revives because people actually went down against level 80 enemies. the game had various CC abilities, and a couple nuke abilities (remember, this was pre saryn rework so saryn was still press 4 to nuke). however, they were not spammed, they couldn't be. they were significantly more limited by your energy which AT BEST regenerated passively at 2.4 energy per second if your whole squad ran energy siphon (which usually, they didn't. the meta was corrosive projection so generally you'd be running 0.6 energy per second passive regen unless you were in a raid since with 8 players you could do 4x corrosive projection and 4x energy siphon for full armor strip and 2.4 energy per second).

current nukes dont "give us a way to deal with hordes", they turn the entire enemy faction into a complete non-issue. 

12 hours ago, Josh486 said:

Also it's funny that you try to downplay him as a new player when he's been playing longer than you lol. Even my console account is close to you in playtime start, starting in early 2016.

except i didn't? i'm saying that the people who played raids back in the day have more skill than people who consider themselves "godly warframe players" in todays meta. 

oh btw, I have 3 accounts, all of which i've actually played on a fair bit. I used to get bored when there was nothing to do so i'd boot up a new account and play the game from scratch again (or continue on my second account). remember that thing earlier about ad hominem? yeah, seems applicable here. 

 

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18 hours ago, ---Merchant--- said:

If wukong would not exist(after his rework) inaros would be very popular. Just give him "sand clone" lol

wokong rework was great, its fun to play(personal opinion), can be tanky, has mobility and his clone despite having the classic not-so-smart- AI that is in warframe, it's very effective .

inaros has potential, i just hope that some day he will het the love he deserves....along with a good rework.

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11 hours ago, TomCruisesSon said:

SERIOUSLY

"This is coming" (Something the devs have mentioned)

"I don't like that."

"Ok?"

"BuT hEy, WhAt Do I kNow?"

Just because I know it's coming doesn't mean I can't call out their predictable mistakes and the inevitable results. SP Railjack will certainly be a thing, but without a full RJ rework or forced participation like Holokeys in Void Storms, it won't be relevant past a little after launch.

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2 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

inaros has potential, i just hope that some day he will het the love he deserves....along with a good rework

Oh he gets love from those who don't like abilities and just want to use weapons

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9 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Just because I know it's coming doesn't mean I can't call out their predictable mistakes and the inevitable results. SP Railjack will certainly be a thing, but without a full RJ rework or forced participation like Holokeys in Void Storms, it won't be relevant past a little after launch.

Archwing missions got just little level boost in SP, so i actually do not think we will get SP railjack, it is already level 100
What would you do, make it 9999 level? It is too much work, they would have to introduce many more weapon tiers so people are actually able to use railjack in those, otherwise it is just archwing with extra X to click to leave ship.

"

  2 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

inaros has potential, i just hope that some day he will het the love he deserves....along with a good rework

Oh he gets love from those who don't like abilities and just want to use weapons


That was the case before wukong rework, it is just much better to have twice the firepower without clicking anything, the ideal "i m eating guys, my clone(twin) will win this mission" frame. It also has 2x dmg multiplier which is crazy with anything AOE

I suggest giving inaros "sand twin" for that reason heh...  His whole kit sucks, it is why no one uses it, so giving him one good thing would not break the game.
I got 250 hours played on just the inaros himself so I'm not hating on him, but he leaves much to be desired when it comes to that kit. If inaros was NPC we'd call him "bullet sponge" and he is not more than that.

Edited by ---Merchant---
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6 hours ago, SDGDen said:

except warframe isn't classified as a horde shooter, it's closer to a looter shooter. also, you're misinterpreting my argument completely.

i never said "revert the game to the 2015 version", i said reverse the powercreep. this would mean various nerfs, buffs and reworks, not "just yeet everything that's been introduced since then".

also, it has been shown that especially for experienced players, difficulty has a direct impact on their enjoyment of the game, players want to be challenged... at least somewhat. some amount of difficulty is also required for maintaining player attention and engagement, as well as make the player feel like they've achieved something rather than let the game achieve something for them. introducing some amount of difficulty back into the game could very easily have a positive effect on the playerbase.

the pitfall people tend to walk into is the assumption that all forms of difficulty are bad and will lose the game players, this is not necessarily the case and depending on how it is done, this can actually allow the game to gain players, at the same time, not all forms of making the game easier are good, and in fact plenty of changes over the years have caused longer-term veterans to quit. 

sadly, as of recently, it's become pretty apparent that what is actually a minority within this community likes to completely shut down ANY form of discussion on the game's difficulty, using various short-sighted arguments or ad hominem to try and get their correctness. for example by portraying people who talk about the game's difficulty as whiny babies or by telling them "they don't know how the game works"

as for your actual arguments.

first on the "not knowing how a horde shooter operates", i've been playing various forms of PVE shooters for well over a decade, I also spent about four or five years learning various aspects of game design, i spend about as much time analysing the games i play as i do actually playing them. i'd say that at this point, i have a pretty okay in-depth understanding of looter shooters and what makes them tick, what makes them enjoyable and how they retain players. 

as for "but solo mode", the game does not get more challenging on solo mode. an unchallenging game minus the teammates is still an unchallenging game. 

as for "DE is giving us ways to deal with hordes in a horde shooter"... that's a very shortsighted argument, technically, it is correct as anything that deals damage to enemies will allow you to deal with hordes. however, anything that deals damage to enemies will allow you to deal with hordes. this does not have to be constant room nukes (Which is what i assume you're referring to. 

many games have AOE weapons or abilities (or both), in pretty much any game out there, AOEs are bound by their heavy resource cost, be that rare ammo, high cooldowns, large energy costs or what have ya. in warframe, AOE weapons and abilities are not bound by any of this due to various things. some weapons have an incredibly large ammo stockpile for an AOE weapon, you can easily run ammo mutation and resolve the ammo issue entirely, AOE abilities are only limited by your energy which you can get in near infinite quantities via tools like the zenurik energizing dash as well as energy pads, rage and energy siphon (with zenurik's energizing dash being the biggest offender, pads are also an issue but they're kinda less problematic because they're a consumable that costs resources)

we can still EASILY deal with hordes without this, for instance pre-second dream (and thus pre zenurik) in LOR, various crowd control abilities were used to deal with hordes along with various damage buffs and defensive buffs. generally it was normal to have a loki or a valkyr in your group as well to go invisible or invulnerable for revives because people actually went down against level 80 enemies. the game had various CC abilities, and a couple nuke abilities (remember, this was pre saryn rework so saryn was still press 4 to nuke). however, they were not spammed, they couldn't be. they were significantly more limited by your energy which AT BEST regenerated passively at 2.4 energy per second if your whole squad ran energy siphon (which usually, they didn't. the meta was corrosive projection so generally you'd be running 0.6 energy per second passive regen unless you were in a raid since with 8 players you could do 4x corrosive projection and 4x energy siphon for full armor strip and 2.4 energy per second).

current nukes dont "give us a way to deal with hordes", they turn the entire enemy faction into a complete non-issue. 

except i didn't? i'm saying that the people who played raids back in the day have more skill than people who consider themselves "godly warframe players" in todays meta. 

oh btw, I have 3 accounts, all of which i've actually played on a fair bit. I used to get bored when there was nothing to do so i'd boot up a new account and play the game from scratch again (or continue on my second account). remember that thing earlier about ad hominem? yeah, seems applicable here. 

 

I think you severely misunderstand the community of this game. This is the same community that demands changes literally every time a new difficult enemy/event or whatever is introduced. Glassmaker was universally hated because he was one of the first challenges this game has had in years. Eidolons are still hated by people who don’t understand them because they assume everything should be “gimme gimme stuff I don’t wanna try let me take build off overframe and have it do all the work,” and hell even the New War campaign was claimed to be “too hard” by a bunch of people. Maybe in other games but not this one, I was too hostile unneedingly, that’s on me. But this game’s community just doesn’t support difficult things being introduced into the game that you can’t instantly cheese or get someone else to carry you through. Sucks but, that’s the community has DE has cultivated, whether it’s good or bad is anyone’s guess but regardless it makes adding these harder options or just making the game in general harder really difficult. Hell if you want more examples, people still complain about Arcane Energize of all things and say that people are overpricing the item at max, even though it takes 450 hydrolysts on average to get a maxxed one because, “wahhh putting in my own effort for to get something is unacceptable,” even though the price of energize is a quarter of the price it used to be and isn’t even worth selling at this point but I digress

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44 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

I think you severely misunderstand the community of this game. This is the same community that demands changes literally every time a new difficult enemy/event or whatever is introduced. Glassmaker was universally hated because he was one of the first challenges this game has had in years. Eidolons are still hated by people who don’t understand them because they assume everything should be “gimme gimme stuff I don’t wanna try let me take build off overframe and have it do all the work,” and hell even the New War campaign was claimed to be “too hard” by a bunch of people. Maybe in other games but not this one, I was too hostile unneedingly, that’s on me. But this game’s community just doesn’t support difficult things being introduced into the game that you can’t instantly cheese or get someone else to carry you through. Sucks but, that’s the community has DE has cultivated, whether it’s good or bad is anyone’s guess but regardless it makes adding these harder options or just making the game in general harder really difficult. Hell if you want more examples, people still complain about Arcane Energize of all things and say that people are overpricing the item at max, even though it takes 450 hydrolysts on average to get a maxxed one because, “wahhh putting in my own effort for to get something is unacceptable,” even though the price of energize is a quarter of the price it used to be and isn’t even worth selling at this point but I digress

Good one but its not DE fault, they just try make fun  content for everyone and everyone want ... a easy game.

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50 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

I think you severely misunderstand the community of this game.

I don't think few bad casuals, fake gamers and game journos, that complain about basic things being too hard are what the devs should be listening too.
The game needs to return to being an actual game and not this constant running, evaporate everything in sight in a second thing it has become.

  

3 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

they just try make fun  content for everyone and everyone want ... a easy game

Who's everyone? I don't think few people complaining,that they can't handle elementary things are adequate representaiton of the community as a whole.

I don't think forums are necessarily representation of the community either.
DE really need to take a closer loot and see, that the game merely cycles players...  you know... players, that farm towards and endgame content, which never comes, so they quit.
They should want more active players, at least in theory... but instead, they seem to be fine with the cycle. Likely it has to do with the business model and veteran players having less need for platinum... who knows.


My prediction is, that if they keep this up, the game will fade away in few years and there will be no people left, who actually care.

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7 minutes ago, Noxifer said:

I don't think few bad casuals, fake gamers and game journos, that complain about basic things being too hard are what the devs should be listening too.
The game needs to return to being an actual game and not this constant running, evaporate everything in sight in a second thing it has become.

  

Who's everyone? I don't think few people complaining,that they can't handle elementary things are adequate representaiton of the community as a whole.

I don't think forums are necessarily representation of the community either.
DE really need to take a closer loot and see, that the game merely cycles players...  you know... players, that farm towards and endgame content, which never comes, so they quit.
They should want more active players, at least in theory... but instead, they seem to be fine with the cycle. Likely it has to do with the business model and veteran players having less need for platinum... who knows.


My prediction is, that if they keep this up, the game will fade away in few years and there will be no people left, who actually care.

Why does everyone keep saying this game is dying with no basis at all… over the past 4 years the game’s player count has shot up significantly since 2017 on Steam. Jumping from around 20k average players to 40k, and that’s excluding the recent new war which further boosted it to around 60k players at any given time. It’s not based on anything, you guys just don’t like the game’s current state/community, which is fine, but to say the game is dying is lying through your teeth

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2 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

Why does everyone keep saying this game is dying with no basis at all

Because the game's getting old and without serious content for it's dedicated players, it will die, just how that happens to many other games.
Sure, looter shooters didn't harm warframe in the past... but the next more creative MMO or looter shooter comes, the game will take a big hit.
I'm not lying though my teeth, I am old enough to see where this leads.

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9 minutes ago, Noxifer said:

Because the game's getting old and without serious content for it's dedicated players, it will die, just how that happens to many other games.
Sure, looter shooters didn't harm warframe in the past... but the next more creative MMO or looter shooter comes, the game will take a big hit.
I'm not lying though my teeth, I am old enough to see where this leads.

Yeah ikr, just like Destiny and Borderlands both killed the game. Same with the division. Anthem kinda replaced this game too ngl.
 

This argument happens with every game that’s been around for years, same with TF2, same with barf League of Legends, same with Warframe. This game has been built over so many years that it’d be almost impossible for a game to come out that would replace it that wouldn’t just be “Warframe 2”

Edited by Josh486
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24 minutes ago, Noxifer said:

I don't think few bad casuals, fake gamers and game journos, that complain about basic things being too hard are what the devs should be listening too.
The game needs to return to being an actual game and not this constant running, evaporate everything in sight in a second thing it has become.

  

Who's everyone? I don't think few people complaining,that they can't handle elementary things are adequate representaiton of the community as a whole.

I don't think forums are necessarily representation of the community either.
DE really need to take a closer loot and see, that the game merely cycles players...  you know... players, that farm towards and endgame content, which never comes, so they quit.
They should want more active players, at least in theory... but instead, they seem to be fine with the cycle. Likely it has to do with the business model and veteran players having less need for platinum... who knows.


My prediction is, that if they keep this up, the game will fade away in few years and there will be no people left, who actually care.

No, they want lazy players who not want learn anything and put platinums in his account. They actually not want players with 3000 hours because that means no money for the company. Are you not sure about the community? I play pubs everytime and i have 4000 ingsme hours and let me tell you people love being afk and get carry want another one? Market cycle if you actually have an active hardcore community the market just die (only rivens would work) its just pure logic, easy game easy to play easy to quit. The only part really addictive of wf its in the first 100/200h and in this moment in the first 100h its when the player pay 50 bucks for some slots, warframes guns, etc. 

At the end its an actual meta, games doesnt have much challenge, and the hardcore games just died 10 years ago...

Edited by Danielw8
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4 minutes ago, Josh486 said:

Yeah ikr, just like Destiny and Borderlands both killed the game. Same with the division. Anthem kinda replaced this game too ngl.
 

This argument happens with every game that’s been around for years

Just because the game retains some addicts and it's not completely shut down doesn't mean it's actually alive. It's effectively dead.
And the whole destiny thing... it happened how many years ago? Warframe was still young. You fail to take time passing by into account.

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3 minutes ago, Noxifer said:

Because the game's getting old and without serious content for it's dedicated players, it will die, just how that happens to many other games.
Sure, looter shooters didn't harm warframe in the past... but the next more creative MMO or looter shooter comes, the game will take a big hit.
I'm not lying though my teeth, I am old enough to see where this leads.

Dedicated players has sung thousands of hours into this game and many of them are still here and are returning when content drops.
They don't have to be here 24/7, if they eventually return, which does happen.
Healthy live service game works that way. It's not about forcing people to be here, but giving them a reason to come back.

Did warframe lose a lot of players over the years?
- Sure, but it gained much more new players.
Was there several times where the game was in a really bad state?
- Sure, but the charm of Warframe is a community that is supportive beyond measure, while being ready to voice their unhappines anytime whenever something's bad.
Were there multiple moments, where there was a "NEW BIG GAME" that's going to destroy Warframe?
- Sure, and Warframe always survived and stayed amongst the most played multiplayer games out there.

Do you know what you are talking about? 
- Obviously absolutely not. The game is in a great state and it's natural for this type of game to have it's ups and down. 

It has been what... 10 years ? Since DE tried to pitch Warframe to publishers and got denied? 
Hmmm what was the reason? 🤔 That it's going to die soon, because that is what happens to games like these? 

Yeah.. and the game is still here..

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2 minutes ago, Noxifer said:

Just because the game retains some addicts and it's not completely shut down doesn't mean it's actually alive. It's effectively dead.
And the whole destiny thing... it happened how many years ago? Warframe was still young. You fail to take time passing by into account.

"some addicts" ? have you ever seen the player stats ? do you have any idea how many active players there are? obviously not.

Destiny 2 came out 2017. Warframe was 4-5 years old at that point. It's 2022.

Wake up dude. 

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