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Is anyone else a bit disappointed there wasn't a lot of large scale "war" in the "New War"?


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11 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

I do wish it was a "Marvel Assemble" war front were there would be lots and lots of combat over a huge area. But Expectation vs Reality, so...

Mj7xdOh.gif

Lol, that gif applies only to people who think Hydron is the best spot in the game for everything. And those people deserve it.

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12 hours ago, (PSN)GingyGreen said:

A lot of it is implied, like sentients taking over during the time skip. And some background set-pieces.

The New War had its moments. But it's just a shame none of those Moments were war.

Yes.  I understand there are many reasons, but you have to acknowledge that The New War was “bait-and-switch” marketed as something it largely wasn’t.
 

Drifter-Duviri Beta Play with OHK environmental Deacon puzzles is a BIG departure from the classic progression systems multiple generations of players have invested in.

Story-wise, going with the classic Drifter-as-Perseus “Clash of the Titans” story arc makes it palatable.  The original from around 1980 has too many pop-culture parallels to be coincidental.

Unfortunately, no amount of story will compensate for gameplay that players felt they got trapped into that they didn’t sign up for.

In the grander scheme, Lotus was played quite well…Alas, DE took a very HEAVY-handed “Saturday morning cartoon super-villain” approach to Ballas, which smothered the nuance and backstory to his character.  He becomes Plankton from SpongeBob…

There was a twisted “Rosebud” Citizen Kane motivation to his Arc that gets buried that would have been GREAT had it been emphasized more…realizing the consequences of choosing self-preservation and power over true love when the pinnacle of Orokin success still isn’t a strong enough illusion to fulfill him and compensate for the monster he was for making that very wrong choice.

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11 hours ago, SDGDen said:

thats exactly my point, in an actual war, the tenno would be WASTED as "foot soldiers", they're much more useful in various other situations. 

Sure, Ivara might not be good as "foot soldier" but something as Rhino? Given range of his abilities he has to be close.

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In Halo Reach, there was a moment when we realized "yup, I'm dead" as we faced an onslaught of foot soldiers. In Warframe we don't ever feel that level of mortality, but I imagine it is a similar comparison. Somehow, perhaps Warframes are meant for short bursts? Fights on the front lines usually take days, what if operators don't have the mental stamina to fight that long? Imagine operators/warframes rage quitting because the fight is taking to long...

We could say it is a chemical/energy challenge, like the meta-human in Terminator: Dark Fate.

Lore Question: What is a warframe's power source? Is it unlimited? I know the Tenno get their powers from the Void, but Ordis and Ballas specifically imply that warframes don't derive power from the void.

  • Ballas: "... but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command."
  • Vitruvian Ordis: "Warframes are Transference proxies for the Star-Child. They do not have memories."
Edited by LillyRaccune
Removed GIF for child safe forum.
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2 hours ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

Unfortunately, no amount of story will compensate for gameplay that players felt they got trapped into that they didn’t sign up for.

I don't know man, that sounds really dumb. I don't know which players you're referring to here. Using the word "trapped" is nonsensical. You get a big warning. You don't accidentilly start this quest. If you mean "players that don't read or think things through" then I'm with you on this one.

And your use of "didn't sign up for". Not sure what you mean here. You had to sign up for something? I'm being litteral here, because you're aiming to make it so people had to go out of their way to apply for something and then didn't get what they were promised. Warframe is a FREE game. You get everything you're doing for FREE. Well sans the time investment, but that's a given yea?

And if you're implying that the gameplay wasn't what people wanted. I'm not sure what you're on about if that's the case. One of the best quests in the game lauded by everyone is "The War Within" and the New War builds on exactly that. And I for one loved it. So if you're here defending the 3 sour pusses that wanted to oneshot everything with their frame while listening to the Lotus telling them to hurry up then I'm sorry I can't follow that path.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think I'm spot on.

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10 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

In Halo Reach, there was a moment when we realized "yup, I'm dead" as we faced an onslaught of foot soldiers. In Warframe we don't ever feel that level of mortality, but I imagine it is a similar comparison. Somehow, perhaps Warframes are meant for short bursts? Fights on the front lines usually take days, what if operators don't have the mental stamina to fight that long? Imagine operators/warframes rage quitting because the fight is taking to long...

We could say it is a chemical/energy challenge, like the meta-human in Terminator: Dark Fate.

SPP1hvr.gif

Lore Question: What is a warframe's power source? Is it unlimited? I know the Tenno get their powers from the Void, but Ordis and Ballas specifically imply that warframes don't derive power from the void.

  • Ballas: "... but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command."
  • Vitruvian Ordis: "Warframes are Transference proxies for the Star-Child. They do not have memories."

I think it's Helminth's job.

As fair I remember it said something like:

Quote

who nurses you, who fixes...

That could mean that Helminth is able to "give food" to our frames.

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8 minutes ago, quxier said:

That could mean that Helminth is able to "give food" to our frames.

Good point. The Helminth is key to the warframe's design. It also means our warframes could have batteries of a sort...

Thanks for reminding me.

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1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

What is a warframe's power source? Is it unlimited? I know the Tenno get their powers from the Void, but Ordis and Ballas specifically imply that warframes don't derive power from the void.

They draw their power from the void, its been said multiple times that warframes use "void magics" to do what they do, they do this through operator most likely. All helminth does is repair what is broken.

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17 hours ago, quxier said:

To be honest I'm kind of glad it wasn't about war or another Kahl/Veso as much as you want it to be.

Being Grineer or Corpus isn't great. Teshin gives something, Veso has "something" but it was sometimes clunky. And Kahl? At this point in the game I don't care about some random Grineer.

Or you against large army? Heck no. In this game everything would just shoot you. That's not fun. You could use some "heavy weapons" but that would probably meant RJ... which is almost copy-paste of normal frame play but worse.

 

What if Kahl becomes the unrandom Grineer known as Clem when...Well..., I wont give anymore away.

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16 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

I do wish it was a "Marvel Assemble" war front were there would be lots and lots of combat over a huge area. But Expectation vs Reality, so...

Mj7xdOh.gif

This is almost amazing, just needs Gara with bright yellow glass!  :D

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Honestly I was delighted by the "twist" of it not really showcasing war the way we're used to movies and games showcasing war.  Usually there are large battlefields full of carnage, but you the main character, wade through them, meeting and surpassing every challenge in your way.  It's an incredibly romanticized version of war, a trope that is as tired as it is hollow.

Real war is ugly, and I thought The New War did a great job of showcasing that.  The first four characters you play as all lose their battles.  We get to experience just how overwhelmed the Sol system is by the forces they're up against.  We don't need to see anything else to know that the war is going to end quickly and the Sentients will be the victors.

And then, only after the dust has settled and the war has ended, do you get to play as a lone agent resisting the new world order.  I love it.

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Real war is ugly, and I thought The New War did a great job of showcasing that.  The first four characters you play as all lose their battles.  We get to experience just how overwhelmed the Sol system is by the forces they're up against.  We don't need to see anything else to know that the war is going to end quickly and the Sentients will be the victors.

Beautiful breakdown of the experience! I can't articulate myself well, but this encapsulates the emotional impression I was experiencing during the quest. :clap:

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3 hours ago, (PSN)jockhotty said:

What if Kahl becomes the unrandom Grineer known as Clem when...Well..., I wont give anymore away.

I'm not sure about you but Clem is just few words that Grineer shout when I kill them. :D

As for the Clem... I rarely do anything with him. Only Nightwave reminds me that I can do some mission with him.

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39 minutes ago, quxier said:

I'm not sure about you but Clem is just few words that Grineer shout when I kill them. :D

As for the Clem... I rarely do anything with him. Only Nightwave reminds me that I can do some mission with him.

Oh, sorry, that was not a 'real' suggestion, just potential irony-hope for the clem loving folks that are of a substantial number in the playstationverse

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2 hours ago, (PSN)jockhotty said:

Oh, sorry, that was not a 'real' suggestion, just potential irony-hope for the clem loving folks that are of a substantial number in the playstationverse

Yeah, I took it half-seriously.

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On 2022-01-19 at 9:39 AM, RazerXPrime said:

I don't know man, that sounds really dumb. I don't know which players you're referring to here. Using the word "trapped" is nonsensical. You get a big warning. You don't accidentilly start this quest. If you mean "players that don't read or think things through" then I'm with you on this one.

And your use of "didn't sign up for". Not sure what you mean here. You had to sign up for something? I'm being litteral here, because you're aiming to make it so people had to go out of their way to apply for something and then didn't get what they were promised. Warframe is a FREE game. You get everything you're doing for FREE. Well sans the time investment, but that's a given yea?

And if you're implying that the gameplay wasn't what people wanted. I'm not sure what you're on about if that's the case. One of the best quests in the game lauded by everyone is "The War Within" and the New War builds on exactly that. And I for one loved it. So if you're here defending the 3 sour pusses that wanted to oneshot everything with their frame while listening to the Lotus telling them to hurry up then I'm sorry I can't follow that path.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think I'm spot on.

You will find multiple threads of people who got to Archons and wanted out. They were done.  It wasn’t using progression systems or any of the “requirements”.   It was a Duviri test run.  But once in the quest, you must finish.  They didn’t “warn” you about that the way it was marketed.

Not hard to find and an easy-to-understand problem.  But a real one for some, whether you think it “dumb” or not.

People were making threads (or responses, at least) on how to alter the game to support players who couldn’t beat them.

 

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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2 hours ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

You will find multiple threads of people who got to Archons and wanted out. They were done.  It wasn’t using progression systems or any of the “requirements”.   It was a Duviri test run.  But once in the quest, you must finish.  They didn’t “warn” you about that the way it was marketed.

Not hard to find and an easy-to-understand problem.  But a real one for some, whether you think it “dumb” or not.

People were making threads (or responses, at least) on how to alter the game to support players who couldn’t beat them.

 

Your response litterally has no relevance to what you said originally and what I responded to. I'm not saying I'm in favor of locking out players from the rest of the game either, but the things you brought up in an attack on the quest system were bogus. That's what I meant when I used to word "dumb". What I'm more curious about is, if this is such a big issue, why hasn't DE done anything about it yet? It's not definitive proof for sure, but that strikes me as that the issue isn't as big as what some people make it out to be. All I see is people complaining they struggle against an enemy where they have to press more than 2 buttons to get things done.

By God you should have seen the whine-train with the Glassmaker boss fight. And that fight was easy too when you got the hang of it. I'm not even surprised anymore by Warframe players lack of minimum skill level to get anything done in video games.

Edited by RazerXPrime
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8 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

By God you should have seen the whine-train with the Glassmaker boss fight. And that fight was easy too when you got the hang of it.

I remember the nihgil bossfight - the original was not easy, if you fell off a platform then you respawned right in front of him, with a seconds delay, which was enough to mean ou got one-shotted by him without any means of getting out of the way. If you were a perfect gamerz then I'm sure it was fine, but for so many, being killed and then killed again without any way of avoiding it was not good gameplay.

So DE nerfed it, respawning you out of his reach on a permanent platform, and that made it easy.

Why DE hasn't done something with this quest - well, we'll never know, maybe they're still on holiday. More likely it'll be addressed in the upcoming devstream.

 

Ultimately the difficulty of quests (especially "cinematic" quests) should be for show. The Kahl, Veso and Teshin parts level of difficult at worst. That the quest suddenly became a new game in iself was not expected by anyway, no matter the warning given at the start. Nobody expected that warning to mean anything other "will take time so forget todays sortie or playing with your buddies". Nobody expected it to mean "you're going to have to actually play as operator with a bow". All previous quests like this have interaction (like the tutorials of War Within where you use void dash to get past the maw). None of that was ever real gameplay, just hints of what the new stuff is with a minigame to practice with. TNW didn't give us that at all, it gave us 2 real boss battles. The most difficult battle in the quest should have been the final one with Ballas, in the cat-toy reflecting sunlight puzzle game. That's the level of difficulty people would have expected.

The gameplay of drifter with the bow, I think that was some left-over game mode tried out for Divuri that they bodged into the quest. If that is to come, then the quest should have been a shorter example of it, leaving the actual gameplay mode for the game afterwards. Like other quests introduce game elements the drifter gameplay should have been added to the base game afterwards. But in-quest, it should have been a tiny component, to act as a teaser with some practice element.

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1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

I remember the nihgil bossfight - the original was not easy, if you fell off a platform then you respawned right in front of him, with a seconds delay, which was enough to mean ou got one-shotted by him without any means of getting out of the way. If you were a perfect gamerz then I'm sure it was fine, but for so many, being killed and then killed again without any way of avoiding it was not good gameplay.

So DE nerfed it, respawning you out of his reach on a permanent platform, and that made it easy.

Why DE hasn't done something with this quest - well, we'll never know, maybe they're still on holiday. More likely it'll be addressed in the upcoming devstream.

 

Ultimately the difficulty of quests (especially "cinematic" quests) should be for show. The Kahl, Veso and Teshin parts level of difficult at worst. That the quest suddenly became a new game in iself was not expected by anyway, no matter the warning given at the start. Nobody expected that warning to mean anything other "will take time so forget todays sortie or playing with your buddies". Nobody expected it to mean "you're going to have to actually play as operator with a bow". All previous quests like this have interaction (like the tutorials of War Within where you use void dash to get past the maw). None of that was ever real gameplay, just hints of what the new stuff is with a minigame to practice with. TNW didn't give us that at all, it gave us 2 real boss battles. The most difficult battle in the quest should have been the final one with Ballas, in the cat-toy reflecting sunlight puzzle game. That's the level of difficulty people would have expected.

The gameplay of drifter with the bow, I think that was some left-over game mode tried out for Divuri that they bodged into the quest. If that is to come, then the quest should have been a shorter example of it, leaving the actual gameplay mode for the game afterwards. Like other quests introduce game elements the drifter gameplay should have been added to the base game afterwards. But in-quest, it should have been a tiny component, to act as a teaser with some practice element.

To be honest most of the whine wasn't about the spawn that was fixed. It was about the bossfight itself because players couldn't use their arsenal to oneshot him and got angry that he oneshot them.

If you ask me, DE hasn't done anything yet because the boss fights are fine? They are not hard. It can be a bit challenging yes, but hard is definitely not the word I would use. You don't need to time jumps and rolls, you don't have a minimum window to make your move, you don't have to use a complex set of movements to get the win. Nothing in these boss fights has anything going that would qualify as hard. The battles seem very similar to a game I play with my 7 year old friends kids. It's called Super Mario Odyssey. A childrens game.

Players having a difficult time have various reasons. But possibly most of those very few players just don't want to change what they are doing, which is probably standing still the entire fight and quickshooting arrows. Because that's the only way you lose.

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

Ultimately the difficulty of quests (especially "cinematic" quests) should be for show. The Kahl, Veso and Teshin parts level of difficult at worst. That the quest suddenly became a new game in iself was not expected by anyway, no matter the warning given at the start. Nobody expected that warning to mean anything other "will take time so forget todays sortie or playing with your buddies". Nobody expected it to mean "you're going to have to actually play as operator with a bow". All previous quests like this have interaction (like the tutorials of War Within where you use void dash to get past the maw). None of that was ever real gameplay, just hints of what the new stuff is with a minigame to practice with. TNW didn't give us that at all, it gave us 2 real boss battles. The most difficult battle in the quest should have been the final one with Ballas, in the cat-toy reflecting sunlight puzzle game. That's the level of difficulty people would have expected.

The gameplay of drifter with the bow, I think that was some left-over game mode tried out for Divuri that they bodged into the quest. If that is to come, then the quest should have been a shorter example of it, leaving the actual gameplay mode for the game afterwards. Like other quests introduce game elements the drifter gameplay should have been added to the base game afterwards. But in-quest, it should have been a tiny component, to act as a teaser with some practice element.

Funny because it was exactly what I was expecting. So your use of "nobody" is out the window already. If you haven't been paying attention DE has given us multiple quests and fights that do not let you play with your own arsenal. (because it's impossible to balance a fight around the power descrepancy! Duh!). War Within, Chains of Harrow, Nihil Boss Fight. And players have been begging for more content that relies on those things as well. Inlcuding myself. And then with the release of the New War intro you clearly see Teshin, Veso and Kahl sections with their own abilities to use. Fairly similar to the use of Warframe powers I might add!

In fact the Drifter is actually a Warframe in terms of game mechanics. They have the exact same movement set. All they lack is double and bullet jump and a fourth ability. I think some people are so used to be carried or being overpowered that they forgot the beginning of their Warframe experience. The left over gameplay with the bow you're mentioning is like the first time you play Warframe! With no abilities, a yanky bow a pistol and a dagger. What?? At least in TNW these weapons are frikking OP.

Edited by RazerXPrime
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15 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

..The left over gameplay with the bow you're mentioning is like the first time you play Warframe! With no abilities, a yanky bow a pistol and a dagger. What?? At least in TNW these weapons are frikking OP.

Give the man a cigar !

Indeed, all those that complain about how it's unfair to not have their overpowered meta copied builds have clearly forgotten how utterly limited one is the first 50 hours or so.

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On 2022-01-18 at 6:09 PM, quxier said:

To be honest I'm kind of glad it wasn't about war or another Kahl/Veso as much as you want it to be.

Being Grineer or Corpus isn't great. Teshin gives something, Veso has "something" but it was sometimes clunky. And Kahl? At this point in the game I don't care about some random Grineer.

Or you against large army? Heck no. In this game everything would just shoot you. That's not fun. You could use some "heavy weapons" but that would probably meant RJ... which is almost copy-paste of normal frame play but worse.

 

I'm trying to figure out what appeal the game has for you, and if any of it could even remotely be the quests where they are telling a story.

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