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Is anyone else a bit disappointed there wasn't a lot of large scale "war" in the "New War"?


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12 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Your response litterally has no relevance to what you said originally and what I responded to. I'm not saying I'm in favor of locking out players from the rest of the game either, but the things you brought up in an attack on the quest system were bogus. That's what I meant when I used to word "dumb". What I'm more curious about is, if this is such a big issue, why hasn't DE done anything about it yet? It's not definitive proof for sure, but that strikes me as that the issue isn't as big as what some people make it out to be. All I see is people complaining they struggle against an enemy where they have to press more than 2 buttons to get things done.

By God you should have seen the whine-train with the Glassmaker boss fight. And that fight was easy too when you got the hang of it. I'm not even surprised anymore by Warframe players lack of minimum skill level to get anything done in video 

We get it.  You don’t think player skill is an excuse.  An elitist view but a valid one.

But…

No matter how much you keep hammering that single nail, it does not INVALIDATE just a single thread nearing 1,300 responses to a discussion where players wanted to QUIT for reasons including skill but also for many other reasons, whether you think it “bogus” or not.  

Your VALID viewpoint does not INVALIDATE others. 

I give you proof of a thread discussion that DWARFS this one as legitimacy, and you artfully respond with “yeah, well that doesn’t count because those are trash game players who whine a lot.”

By that standard, you are just part of the “whine-train” that is on the tracks running in the opposite direction who thinks himself better.

Nice.

 

 

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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30 minutes ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

We get it.  You don’t think player skill is an excuse.  An elitist view but a valid one.

But…

No matter how much you keep hammering that single nail, it does not INVALIDATE just a single thread nearing 1,300 responses to a discussion where players wanted to QUIT for reasons including skill but also for many other reasons, whether you think it “bogus” or not.  

Your VALID viewpoint does not INVALIDATE others. 

I give you proof of a thread discussion that DWARFS this one as legitimacy, and you artfully respond with “yeah, well that doesn’t count because those are trash game players who whine a lot.”

By that standard, you are just part of the “whine-train” that is on the tracks running in the opposite direction who thinks himself better.

Nice.

 

 

1300 responses, not 1300 players. And I truly wonder what the seggregation is between people that are actually unable to complete this due to lack of skill and people that just want to go back to normal gameplay because the quest spans 4+ hours of game time. The only difference between you and me is that you think it's a lot of people and I think it is not. Both of these are assumptions.

But you've turned this into a personal attack so I'll leave it as is.

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54 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

1300 responses, not 1300 players. And I truly wonder what the seggregation is between people that are actually unable to complete this due to lack of skill and people that just want to go back to normal gameplay because the quest spans 4+ hours of game time. The only difference between you and me is that you think it's a lot of people and I think it is not. Both of these are assumptions.

But you've turned this into a personal attack so I'll leave it as is.

It was not a personal attack.  
 

By that standard you called me “really dumb” and “nonsensical” in the first two sentences responding to my thread and attacked me.

Being blunt and paraphrasing what you said was not personal.   I don’t need to quote the things you’ve said that some might see as inflammatory.  I did not take offense.  Please don’t play that card.  Your views are valid.  So are others.  Thanks for discussing.

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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16 minutes ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

It was not a personal attack.  
 

By that standard you called me “really dumb” and “nonsensical” in the first two sentences responding to my thread and attacked me.

Being blunt and paraphrasing what you said was not personal.   I don’t need to quote the things you’ve said that some might see as inflammatory.  I did not take offense.  Please don’t play that card.  Your views are valid.  So are others.  Thanks for discussing.

I referenced a statement you made. I did not call you any names, but you're fine to call me elitist. Dude, just because I disagree with you on the difficulty level in no way makes me an elitist. I'm pro not locking players out of the rest of the game. I'm just wondering how many people are actually stuck and what merrit there is to the claim of difficulty. I simply fail to see it.

But lets leave the discussion for what it is, we're going off topic for a while now.

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3 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

the Drifter is actually a Warframe in terms of game mechanics. They have the exact same movement set. All they lack is double and bullet jump and a fourth ability

so... not warframes at all.

Mechs are not warframes despite having 4 abilities, nor are archwings. Drifter is just a different vehicle.

I never wanted, or expected to use the WF in the quest (although it does say loadouts are limited, I did expect to have one somewhere), but quests are either split between a little story followed by regular gameplay (eg Sands of Inaros) or are entirely story based. And when they want some player involvement in the story quest, they always make it easy. Its more like a tutorial rather than actual gameplay, everything is nerfed so you can try it out a bit and then go do it for real later. Remember zapping Umbra with your void beam. Get it wrong, you restart but he keeps the health damage you did inflict. Its designed to be an "always win" with interaction so you feel you did something. Until this quest where you're given a strange new trigger mechanic (which sucks IMHO) rather than anything you might be used to, and told to get used to it because there is no other option.

I'd have expected drifter to be revealed near the end and then the drifter gameplay become part of the game. That's what they usually do, but in this case, it seems the gameplay was squidged in between 2 cinematic quests. This is why it possible that the drifter parts were sample gameplay for Divuri that they simply picked off the floor and put in the quest as filler.

 

But remember. the people complaining are not saying "wish I could breeze it with my OP kit". They never said that about any other narrative quest, no killing Umbra with a frame, no bullet jumping over the golden maw, etc. They are nearly all complaining about the bow mechanic and how they hate or find it difficult to use. That perfect shot does require some motor dexterity skills along with the co-ordination to watch the charge bar, as well as watch your aim and watch the enemy moves all at the same time. Some people do not play like that, are not used to it, or just find it too much to cope with all at once. Like learning to drive an automatic and suddenly being given a stick-shift.  Remember the warframe parts are not hard gameplay, you an do the quest with any frame, any mech, and railjack. They didn't even need to be modded, you could do the quest with a MR1 Mag if you wanted. You coud escape angry Lotus by running around, no skill needed, you could fight Ballas at the end with no fear of failure either. But the archon fights, they have no place in a quest like this TBH.

I lost to the archons a few times, i'm not some twitchy 12 year old anymore. Its not as easy as you make out, the same players saying it was easy are also on the firums demanding the same difficult game like Drifter. Its funny how they can hold 2 opposing opinions at once, depending on who they're replying to.

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1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

 That perfect shot does require some motor dexterity skills along with the co-ordination to watch the charge bar, as well as watch your aim and watch the enemy moves all at the same time. Some people do not play like that, are not used to it, or just find it too much to cope with all at once.

1. The perfect shot with the bow helps but isn't a requirement. Even the charged shot isn't a requirement but again it does help things go quicker. Let's be honest here, getting a charged shot comes down to holding a button a tad longer, not something that one should consider being a skill.

2. Concerning 'some people do not play like that'. So what? No matter what projectile weapon one uses one has to aim and watch the enemy moves. There's plenty of weapons,even none bow ones, that even require charge bars. Them avoiding using those weapons is a 'them' problem not anyone else's.

3. Concerning 'are not used to it'. Again, so what? I wasn't used to bulletjumps either before playing Warframe and learning about it. No one was used to take out an Archon. Isn't it strange that most people took it in their stride and learned how to deal with it, isn't it strange?

4. Concerning 'find it too much to cope with all at once'. It's called adaption.

In short : all that you mentioned comes down to 'preferences' as in there are some people that prefer not to play that kind of thing. And that means anyone should care because..... why exactly ?  Not liking something is their prerogative. Expecting that their entitlement should be considered isn't.

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1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

so... not warframes at all.

Mechs are not warframes despite having 4 abilities, nor are archwings. Drifter is just a different vehicle.

I never wanted, or expected to use the WF in the quest (although it does say loadouts are limited, I did expect to have one somewhere), but quests are either split between a little story followed by regular gameplay (eg Sands of Inaros) or are entirely story based. And when they want some player involvement in the story quest, they always make it easy. Its more like a tutorial rather than actual gameplay, everything is nerfed so you can try it out a bit and then go do it for real later. Remember zapping Umbra with your void beam. Get it wrong, you restart but he keeps the health damage you did inflict. Its designed to be an "always win" with interaction so you feel you did something. Until this quest where you're given a strange new trigger mechanic (which sucks IMHO) rather than anything you might be used to, and told to get used to it because there is no other option.

I'd have expected drifter to be revealed near the end and then the drifter gameplay become part of the game. That's what they usually do, but in this case, it seems the gameplay was squidged in between 2 cinematic quests. This is why it possible that the drifter parts were sample gameplay for Divuri that they simply picked off the floor and put in the quest as filler.

 

But remember. the people complaining are not saying "wish I could breeze it with my OP kit". They never said that about any other narrative quest, no killing Umbra with a frame, no bullet jumping over the golden maw, etc. They are nearly all complaining about the bow mechanic and how they hate or find it difficult to use. That perfect shot does require some motor dexterity skills along with the co-ordination to watch the charge bar, as well as watch your aim and watch the enemy moves all at the same time. Some people do not play like that, are not used to it, or just find it too much to cope with all at once. Like learning to drive an automatic and suddenly being given a stick-shift.  Remember the warframe parts are not hard gameplay, you an do the quest with any frame, any mech, and railjack. They didn't even need to be modded, you could do the quest with a MR1 Mag if you wanted. You coud escape angry Lotus by running around, no skill needed, you could fight Ballas at the end with no fear of failure either. But the archon fights, they have no place in a quest like this TBH.

I lost to the archons a few times, i'm not some twitchy 12 year old anymore. Its not as easy as you make out, the same players saying it was easy are also on the firums demanding the same difficult game like Drifter. Its funny how they can hold 2 opposing opinions at once, depending on who they're replying to.

No I meant the Drifter has the same movement mechanics in terms of what the game uses as a template. They crouch and move exactly like a frame. They can also ride a K Drive just like a frame. It's the same thing underneath the hood. They just removed double and bullet jump and gave them 3 abilities instead of 4. You also get to use primary, secondary and a melee weapon. Just like a frame. Comparing it to a Necramech is just rediculous. If you play the quest again, just check how the drifter moves.

I'm actually kind of disappointed that they removed some of that stuff when they merged them with operator abilities. I much rather have the void abilities be accessible as different ability sets and just use primary, secondary and melee weapons on the Drifter. But I guess they didn't want to go that route.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)kite9000 said:

In short : all that you mentioned comes down to 'preferences' as in there are some people that prefer not to play that kind of thing. And that means anyone should care because..... why exactly ?  Not liking something is their prerogative. Expecting that their entitlement should be considered isn't.

Why should we care  because this isn;t gameplaty. Its a sory quest. And we should care because some people are locked out of everything until they get good enough, practiced enough or otherwise lucky enough to beat the boss battles. In a story quest.

The bow segment is there for a reason, if charging it all the way is just as good, why bother with the last quarter section as a "perfect shot" mechanic at all. Just make it like every other charged trigger.

 

1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

Comparing it to a Necramech is just rediculous. If you play the quest again, just check how the drifter moves

Mechs are just the same, only clumpier, as you'd expect. The Drifter is just a new humanoid "vehicle" for us to play, but without operator powers until the quest eneds and then they're just new skins for the operator. Its all disappointing. I'd rather have had then reveal the drifter at the end and have the drifter skills in gameplay. Maybe they'll bring that in with Divuri, in a time travel "this was before you got your void powers and forgot how to do the other abilities", which will be rubbish. Or it'll just be a plat-sink skin forever.

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Hi, I just wanted to point out there's a good chance the 'war' part of the release was pushed back till this year so they could release the Quest component on time, while also having a few days to fix any glaring problems with it before heading out on a needed vacation. We'll hopefully see something on next week's devstream. I did feel  a bit of whiplash going from this carefully crafted experience to...Narmer Bounties. Bounties are terrible, breaking half the time and when they don't, it's slowly murdering 100 enemies spawning out of nothing in a cave. (I actually like the design and layouts of the caves but Bounties Are Terrible)

 

That said one of the problems with battles that truly feel 'war' scale is they might be hitting the upper limit of how many enemies the game can have going at once. I remember that being a problem when they released the extremely disappointing Corpus Railjack update. Everything outside of the 'normal' mission component had to be turned off, disallowing any interesting interactions between the inside and outside.

 

If we were using characters like Kahl and Veso however it might necessitate fewer enemies to fill the screen as we wouldn't be able to kill everything as quickly (No Saryns, Brammas, or equivalents) or zip across the map as quickly (I imagine things like dagryns would be limited and much more susceptible to AA and enemy fighters). Steve's most recent post hints at some "experiments" with gameplay from the New War quest so I guess it's time for the waiting game ._.

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On 2022-01-19 at 12:43 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

Honestly I was delighted by the "twist" of it not really showcasing war the way we're used to movies and games showcasing war.  Usually there are large battlefields full of carnage, but you the main character, wade through them, meeting and surpassing every challenge in your way.  It's an incredibly romanticized version of war, a trope that is as tired as it is hollow.

Real war is ugly, and I thought The New War did a great job of showcasing that.  The first four characters you play as all lose their battles.  We get to experience just how overwhelmed the Sol system is by the forces they're up against.  We don't need to see anything else to know that the war is going to end quickly and the Sentients will be the victors.

And then, only after the dust has settled and the war has ended, do you get to play as a lone agent resisting the new world order.  I love it.

Nothing about your characterization of The New War demonstrates that it showcased the ugliness of war. Characters losing instead of winning isn't showing the ugliness of war. It's no more or less tropish, no more or less Hollywood, than having the characters win the war. Plenty of Hollywood movies show characters losing. Furthermore, no one is asking that the characters win the war. That's beside the point.

If you want to talk about the ugliness of war, The New War doesn't show it. We don't get to see the impact of the war on the citizens of the system. We don't get to see the toll it takes on the soldiers fighting the war. We don't even get to see the toll war takes on the Tenno, or the toll all of their warfighting over many years during the Old War and now has taken on them. That would be showcasing the ugliness of war.

No, nothing in The New War has showcased the ugliness of real war. And that's because The New War doesn't showcase real war or its ugliness. It barely showcases war at all. There's no organization or movement of troops. There are no small unit tactics and TTPs demonstrated. There are no fireteam-level or squad-level raids on Sentient positions, no long-range fires utilized against the Sentients. No combined arms warfare. There's no command and control. There is no tactical planning conducted at the command-level, and no communication at the squad-level (just the silly joke of a character that is Vay Hek screaming at Kahl). No, The New War does not show the ugliness of real war, because it does not show real war or the impact of real war on characters.

Edited by OniDax
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8 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I'm trying to figure out what appeal the game has for you,

I assume you are talking about Warframe.

Game as big as WF has many things we can like or dislike. I like gameplay using frames or operators. I'm "melee person" so frames are better than Mechs.

As for other elements, I like void related stuffs (I love stories about time, space and other related stuffs).

Quote

and if any of it could even remotely be the quests where they are telling a story.

The thing with Warframe (game) is that sometimes there is something wrong with stories:

- someone is talking while you are fighting

- story is missing some information or something is wrong (like Sevagoth's quest)

There is other factors like I described about Kahl.

I can enjoy story - it just has to be good.

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5 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

... we should care because some people are locked out of everything until they get good enough, practiced enough or otherwise lucky enough to beat the boss battles.

Thank you for proving that we shouldn't care. After all, if they are just locked out UNTIL they have learned how to do it or got lucky then .... there's no point in anyone caring seeing that at some point they will learn how to do it or just get lucky.

5 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

Bow...... make it like every other charged trigger.

Yeah, let's all weapons respond like every other weapon. Heck, while they are at it let them also change how for instance opticor works. Charged shots are too difficult for some players so DE should get rid of it. For that matter, alternate fire is to messy, can't expect people to learn to press an additional button. Nay, they should do away with it all. All primary and secondary weapons should only have one mode, one button click one projectile. What were they thinking .......that every player would be able to keep track of how to use what weapon where?  tsk-tsk-tsk   </sarcasm>

 

Again, people being entitled, lazy or unwilling to adapt to ever so slightly different sequence of challenges doesn't warrant compassion nor consideration.

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10 hours ago, (PSN)kite9000 said:

Again, people being entitled, lazy or unwilling to adapt

You missed unable. How could you forget that one.

But anyway you could have just said "git gud" which is exactly the same meaning as all that word soup you did write.

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52 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

You missed unable. How could you forget that one.

No I didn't missed it al all nor forgot about it. The reason being that you didn't mention that in that post I reacted to.

17 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

...... we should care because some people are locked out of everything until they get good enough, practiced enough or otherwise lucky enough to beat the boss battles. 

You didn't mention unable in your statements. Not in the sentence that I have now qouted once again nor in the rest of that post or yours. Please be at least that honest that you don't put words into another peoples mouths.

If you had mentioned 'unable' I would have added a caveat about that, but seeing that you didn't... there was no need for it. You making allegations about something that didn't happen doesn't make me callous but just shows that you like to move goalposts.

58 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

But anyway you could have just said "git gud"

For the 3rd time :

17 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

.... until they get good enough, practiced enough or otherwise lucky enough to beat the boss battles. 

Between you and me, the only one using the words "get good" or even "git gud" is YOU. There for please berate yourself, look into a mirror and give yourself a good long disapproving stare.

All in all, the one thing I didn't see, is you acknowledging that people that are entitled, lazy or unwilling to adapt don't have anyone to blame but themselves. I wonder why you kind of skipped over that?

 

 

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