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Angels of the Zariman: Dev Workshop PREVIEW


[DE]Megan

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What if we have both forms of Void Dash? Tap to go a set distance instantly, hold to guide the path of the dash. Perhaps allow this through arcanes and nodes?

I actually like the control new void dash offers. If I’m crashing into less level geometry I’ll probs be faster. I would only really want current dash when I have a line of sight unobstructed.

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16 hours ago, (PSN)BdotRASS said:

The 'wait and see' opinion is kind of mute at this point. We know what the gameplay is like and how that feels. We can see the new system in action and can quite easily extrapolate that visual into how that will feel during gameplay.

No, it isn't mute. You have to take this change in the context of the overall operator ability and focus rework. There are many unknowns right now, such as:

  • Waybound operator traits appear to have been removed from the focus tree, or significantly changed/renamed.
    • Mind Sprint was the only waybound allocated, however Naramon tree was not unlocked. Was this even working? Has it been changed? Are we trying to compare a new base void dash to our current existing and maximized void dash?
    • Is there an alterative progression tree for waybound style passive gains or ability allocation?
    • Are waybounds simply being rolled into the base ability? E.g. Stone Skin gave 200 armour in the tooltip.
  • Operator abilities and combat loop is different.
    • Void Blast - distinctively missing in action.
    • What other abilities are we getting? Can we modify these based on loadout?
    • What changes to the gameplay loop, or what will make you want to go frame -> operator -> frame are there?
    • How does this loop fit in with existing mechanics or encounters, and have any of these encounters been tweaked?
      • Kuva guardians
      • Eidolons
      • Sentients
  • Operator/Amp arcane changes, if any.
  • Will there be a menu option to invert the range (e.g. start max range and decay)? Or separate hotkey (or ability) for a max range dash?

Regarding how it played out, sure there were bits that were clunky, but there were also a few moments where it looked/felt quite smooth, especially with retained momentum. You have to take into consideration that Reb is attempting to demonstrate a new game mode that is parkour heavy, enemy updates, and void dash demonstration, whilst commentating and following the conversation with the others, whilst also playing on a lapboard - this combined will not be reflective of a comfortable gameplay loop that your typical player will have. It does look like an improvement for dashing around on the regular tilesets.

But sure, feel free to ignore all of the above unknowns and focus purely on the travel aspect. The void dash change is literally the same natural progression of coptering into parkour 2.0, or Itzal blink to the generic AW Blink. Every time there's a movement change it's all doom and gloom, however the changes to Warframe have been a net improvement and it is hard to argue otherwise.

It's pretty clear that these design changes have also been in the background for a long time now. Tennocon 2019 dropped the trailer for The Duviri Paradox, and it's just been waiting for the right time and world building setup to be released. Covid meant Deimos was released before The New War which is leading towards the release of The Duviri Paradox. Revamping/updating gameplay elements so that the gameplay loop is suited for their intended or updated vision is a natural thing and should be expected.

 

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1 hour ago, Kokomala said:

No, it isn't mute. You have to take this change in the context of the overall operator ability and focus rework. There are many unknowns right now, such as:

  • Waybound operator traits appear to have been removed from the focus tree, or significantly changed/renamed.
    • Mind Sprint was the only waybound allocated, however Naramon tree was not unlocked. Was this even working? Has it been changed? Are we trying to compare a new base void dash to our current existing and maximized void dash?
    • Is there an alterative progression tree for waybound style passive gains or ability allocation?
    • Are waybounds simply being rolled into the base ability? E.g. Stone Skin gave 200 armour in the tooltip.
  • Operator abilities and combat loop is different.
    • Void Blast - distinctively missing in action.
    • What other abilities are we getting? Can we modify these based on loadout?
    • What changes to the gameplay loop, or what will make you want to go frame -> operator -> frame are there?
    • How does this loop fit in with existing mechanics or encounters, and have any of these encounters been tweaked?
      • Kuva guardians
      • Eidolons
      • Sentients
  • Operator/Amp arcane changes, if any.
  • Will there be a menu option to invert the range (e.g. start max range and decay)? Or separate hotkey (or ability) for a max range dash?

Regarding how it played out, sure there were bits that were clunky, but there were also a few moments where it looked/felt quite smooth, especially with retained momentum. You have to take into consideration that Reb is attempting to demonstrate a new game mode that is parkour heavy, enemy updates, and void dash demonstration, whilst commentating and following the conversation with the others, whilst also playing on a lapboard - this combined will not be reflective of a comfortable gameplay loop that your typical player will have. It does look like an improvement for dashing around on the regular tilesets.

But sure, feel free to ignore all of the above unknowns and focus purely on the travel aspect. The void dash change is literally the same natural progression of coptering into parkour 2.0, or Itzal blink to the generic AW Blink. Every time there's a movement change it's all doom and gloom, however the changes to Warframe have been a net improvement and it is hard to argue otherwise.

It's pretty clear that these design changes have also been in the background for a long time now. Tennocon 2019 dropped the trailer for The Duviri Paradox, and it's just been waiting for the right time and world building setup to be released. Covid meant Deimos was released before The New War which is leading towards the release of The Duviri Paradox. Revamping/updating gameplay elements so that the gameplay loop is suited for their intended or updated vision is a natural thing and should be expected.

 

De literally touted the new movement as an improvement then showed us how it's worse.

There may be any number of changes to the focus trees but I really don't see what that has to do with the movement. You understand that the focus trees are a bunch of buffs and situational abilities, right? Not a way to unlock base movement uses. The movement is intrinsic to the operator, any one school having movement while the others are static turrets would make the same disparity in school choice that de are supposed to be addressing.

The dash we saw was a direct comparison to the current dash, otherwise mind sprint would have been removed and de would have qualified the visuals with a "this is representative of unupgraded movement" statement.

Even if de are reworking the operator's use; the showed us that it's current use is unchanged, it will still be a tool for buffing your frame in normal missions. A use case the movement change will degrade.

 

You entirely missed the point; the new dash is supposed to be easier, not just as hard but in a different way. If it was easier we wouldn't have seen so many failures and so little of working just barely as good as the current system.

I never once said anything about the momentum system, and I don't think anyone is against it.

 

Coptering was an exploit that was deemed worthy of making into an intrinsic part of the game, it wasn't designed and then backtracked years later. Not much joining this to the current issue.

 

Did you play archwing with the old blink? Did you play it after the blink update? The new blink feels bad by comparison. Anyone that has played both knows this. Even now with the buffs they made to universal blink, it still feels worse than the original ability; the one de coded and that functioned within the intended parameters. Even if in 5 years time de update the new void dash to be more in line with the current one, history tells us that the reworked rework will still be worse than the original ability.

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7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

There's not much need for Void Dash To begin with so that's not really an Argument....

Not to mention I would rather not Face Plant against Various Surfaces just to Stop....

Then Prove it for Every single Response I Made.... Other wise you just wrong.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Going by these responses I'm guessing you're just a troll or you are less than 50 hours into the game and have no concept of what the void dash is useful for.

Have you ever even used the void dash ability?

Do you even have an operator unlocked?

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I will join others in saying that the new dash is awful. Proclaiming how "rad" it looks isn't going to change our minds, it looks sluggish and will most definitely slow down gameplay. And I'm afraid of even imagining how all of this will feel at higher latencies, given the current state of Transference offhost. Please, please just don't touch this. No one asked for Void Dash to be changed. Don't make the mistake of "developing the game for yourselves", we all know how that turns out. Listen to your playerbase.

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)BdotRASS said:

De literally touted the new movement as an improvement then showed us how it's worse.

Over simplifying the Situation much ? 🤔

DE actually did improve on the things they wanted to improve.... Ergo it's better in the exact areas they were focusing on....

If you misinterpreted what DE was trying to do then that's on you.... 👀

Just now, (PSN)BdotRASS said:

Going by these responses I'm guessing you're just a troll or you are less than 50 hours into the game and have no concept of what the void dash is useful for.

Have you ever even used the void dash ability?

Do you even have an operator unlocked?

Oh.... You're on PSN.... I was about to say simply check my Profile yourself but....

Hang on.... Let me Grab a Screen Shot for you:

Heres my Profile?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Lett

 

Here's my Illegitimate Daughter 👀

?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Lett

 

Here's my Excess Eidolon Shards...

?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Lett

 

And here's my Naramon Focus Skill Tree.... Note that I do have Mind Sprint Unbound 👍

?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Lett

 

And that's just for my Main Account....

I have two other accounts.... But I say that with Embarrassment rather than with Pride because after a Certain point... Number Of Hours is nothing to be proud of....

I guess you simply haven't Reached that point yet.... Maybe ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

17 minutes ago, VengefulAncient said:

it looks sluggish and will most definitely slow down gameplay.

Only for the people who don't play Wukong ... And the people who don't have their Focus Trees Mostly Upgraded.... 

In other words.... It won't slow down as many People as you think it will... 😝

19 minutes ago, VengefulAncient said:

And I'm afraid of even imagining how all of this will feel at higher latencies, given the current state of Transference offhost.

And this is where you're entire Argument Falls Apart because it clearly proves your information is not accurate.... 

We are getting Client Side Transference....

I was so happy about it I even made a Thread for it... 👀

Insert Facepalm Gif (That's right... I can't even be bothered to embed one for you) 

 

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1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Over simplifying the Situation much ? 🤔

DE actually did improve on the things they wanted to improve.... Ergo it's better in the exact areas they were focusing on....

If you misinterpreted what DE was trying to do then that's on you.... 👀

Oh.... You're on PSN.... I was about to say simply check my Profile yourself but....

Hang on.... Let me Grab a Screen Shot for you:

Heres my Profile

So you're just a troll, gotcha.

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17 hours ago, Koften said:

I know alot of people are complaining about the speed of void dash, that it has been slowed down, it think DE is trying to figure out a way to cut out brain dead gameplay, I think they want to initiate more skill into the game, without slowing down the game( which is gonna take alot of work), that's why some eximus changes are being made. I think it's all just to make gameplay more rewarding, Warframe feels good but not so rewarding. I dunno if this the direction the devs wanna take the game but I support it and want Warframe to grow and be the best it is, keep up the good work DE 💪

They can start by nerfing nuke frames like Saryn and Mesa who are absolutely 100% braindead gameplay, not only for themselves but the teammates who had the misfortune of teaming up with them. You can follow that up by nerfing tank frames who can shrug off Profit Taker's explosion and laugh (or in Rhino's case, get hundreds of thousands of Iron Skin HP). You could even start by gutting AoE CC (or don't, CC's been a joke since the nuke meta took over).

Making void dash worse, for seemingly no reason, is the worst way to try slowing the game down and removing braindead gameplay.

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10 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Does it ?

I wasn't aware Operator's Had "Builds".... 👀

Very limited, but still viable ones from what we have for our current focus system, but after the rework that is coming up, there should be more.

Plus I'd say giving players the option to choose between the new dash and the old dash would quell a lot of the outrage happening.
Especially from the performance-based side of the Eidolon hunting community.

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3 hours ago, (PSN)BdotRASS said:

De literally touted the new movement as an improvement then showed us how it's worse.

There may be any number of changes to the focus trees but I really don't see what that has to do with the movement. You understand that the focus trees are a bunch of buffs and situational abilities, right? Not a way to unlock base movement uses. The movement is intrinsic to the operator, any one school having movement while the others are static turrets would make the same disparity in school choice that de are supposed to be addressing.

The dash we saw was a direct comparison to the current dash, otherwise mind sprint would have been removed and de would have qualified the visuals with a "this is representative of unupgraded movement" statement.

Even if de are reworking the operator's use; the showed us that it's current use is unchanged, it will still be a tool for buffing your frame in normal missions. A use case the movement change will degrade.

You entirely missed the point; the new dash is supposed to be easier, not just as hard but in a different way. If it was easier we wouldn't have seen so many failures and so little of working just barely as good as the current system.

I never once said anything about the momentum system, and I don't think anyone is against it.

Coptering was an exploit that was deemed worthy of making into an intrinsic part of the game, it wasn't designed and then backtracked years later. Not much joining this to the current issue.

Did you play archwing with the old blink? Did you play it after the blink update? The new blink feels bad by comparison. Anyone that has played both knows this. Even now with the buffs they made to universal blink, it still feels worse than the original ability; the one de coded and that functioned within the intended parameters. Even if in 5 years time de update the new void dash to be more in line with the current one, history tells us that the reworked rework will still be worse than the original ability.

You're significantly missing my point. Waybounds augment different aspects of the base operator. Energy, regen, movement etc. The different schools simply adds flavour to operator abilities. The fact that waybounds are missing makes me think that many people are just having the usual knee jerk negative reaction because "all change is bad", as we've only got half the information. Was Mind Sprint actually working in that demo? We literally have no idea. The school it currently belongs to wasn't unlocked. If waybounds are now a side progression system there may be other changes we don't know about - again, lots of things were missing or otherwise not ready to be shown. That is the point I am trying to make, which is why we collectively need to put down the pitchforks until we have a bit more info.

I'm well aware of DE's line of reasoning for the change, but lets be honest - rarely does a system change that impacts something as important as movement be made for a singular reason. The new void dash does appear to be better suited to traversing regular missions - which is the bulk of the game.

Coptering was in the game for over 2 years before it was replaced by the parkour 2.0 in patch 17. Blink was in the game for 5 years before it was adjusted, partly in preparation for modular AW, partly because it was too mobile. Void Dash has been in the game for 7 years and this change is arguably 2 years overdue (covid delays for TNW->Duvuri). I'm saying this because every single one of these things were clearly excessive movement but remained in the game for a long time, bug or not. However slow it may be, DE are progressively moving away from this style of movement to something that is more healthy for the game.

Lets look at what is arguably the most player broken activity in the game - Eidolons. Which is also where most complaints appear to be centered around for the new void dash.

Itzal and Blink The primary use was to navigate quickly between locations in the open worlds due to their size, but quickly found a home for lure collecting for Eidolons. The blink change shifted some players to start using void dash combined with hotkeyed energy pad spam to do the exact same thing. Then players found the Magus Revert and Meteoric Dash combo and either hotkeyed it or macro'd it to their mousewheel (this was later patched out) to break shields. Stacking the mechanics of void strike and operator/amp arcanes practically bypasses the entire fight, and void dash significantly trivializes the lure collection side. Players will use a mix of AW, Blink and Void Dash to get around, and Void Dash is spammed often.

One can certainly argue that DE did not predict the way players have trivialized that fight.

Now, is it fun stacking all of those mechanics to push as many tri runs as you can? Sure, if that's your thing. Is it healthy for the game? I'd argue that it is not, or rather the combination of mechanics in which players break (trivialize) the fight is not.

Not that it's really relevant, but why on earth do you think I'm not aware of how old vs new blink worked if I'm making comparisons with coptering? For what it's worth, I don't care either way. Sure you can't spam it as before and there's a brief cooldown between uses, but it is doesn't impact the game to such an extent that the game is less fun because of it. Now you can use whatever AW you want without worrying about movement, and hopefully modular AW will come DE Soon™. Is it less than what it was? Yes. Is the net impact to the game less than what it was? No. Is the game healthier for the change? Yes.

I'm of the same mindset with the new void dash. I don't think the game will be any less for the change, and focus/operators have needed some balance passes for a while now (void strike, energizing dash in particular) whilst making the schools a competitive and viable choice between each other. Tweaking both to be in line with where they are taking the game is much more important, and much healthier for the game, than ensuring people can maintain their 6x3 plus runs.

But hey, we can agree to disagree. Just remember that DE will steer the game towards their vision. Getting worked up over changes in a game is not worth losing sleep over, regardless of how passionate you are for the game.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)BdotRASS said:

So you're just a troll, gotcha.

Moving Goal Posts now are we ?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

1 hour ago, Rise said:

Very limited, but still viable ones from what we have for our current focus system, but after the rework that is coming up, there should be more.

Based on what ? One single mechanic being 30% Slower ? Don't you think you are Overrexagerating Just a tiny bit ? 🤔

1 hour ago, Rise said:

Plus I'd say giving players the option to choose between the new dash and the old dash would quell a lot of the outrage happening.
Especially from the performance-based side of the Eidolon hunting community.

You're probably right.... But as far as Eidolons Go that Toxic Game mode deserved exactly what it's got coming to it.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

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On 2022-03-12 at 1:37 AM, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

All I'm seeing right now is the typical kneejerk response from a bunch of crybabies. Just like the idiots who were outraged when Shotguns were apparently being "nerfed" with the status rework only to find out they are now much stronger than before.

I fully disagree on that - shotguns are still way weaker than before even with all new mods.

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1 hour ago, Kokomala said:

You're significantly missing my point. Waybounds augment different aspects of the base operator. Energy, regen, movement etc. The different schools simply adds flavour to operator abilities. The fact that waybounds are missing makes me think that many people are just having the usual knee jerk negative reaction because "all change is bad", as we've only got half the information. Was Mind Sprint actually working in that demo? We literally have no idea. The school it currently belongs to wasn't unlocked. If waybounds are now a side progression system there may be other changes we don't know about - again, lots of things were missing or otherwise not ready to be shown. That is the point I am trying to make, which is why we collectively need to put down the pitchforks until we have a bit more info.

I'm well aware of DE's line of reasoning for the change, but lets be honest - rarely does a system change that impacts something as important as movement be made for a singular reason. The new void dash does appear to be better suited to traversing regular missions - which is the bulk of the game.

Coptering was in the game for over 2 years before it was replaced by the parkour 2.0 in patch 17. Blink was in the game for 5 years before it was adjusted, partly in preparation for modular AW, partly because it was too mobile. Void Dash has been in the game for 7 years and this change is arguably 2 years overdue (covid delays for TNW->Duvuri). I'm saying this because every single one of these things were clearly excessive movement but remained in the game for a long time, bug or not. However slow it may be, DE are progressively moving away from this style of movement to something that is more healthy for the game.

Lets look at what is arguably the most player broken activity in the game - Eidolons. Which is also where most complaints appear to be centered around for the new void dash.

Itzal and Blink The primary use was to navigate quickly between locations in the open worlds due to their size, but quickly found a home for lure collecting for Eidolons. The blink change shifted some players to start using void dash combined with hotkeyed energy pad spam to do the exact same thing. Then players found the Magus Revert and Meteoric Dash combo and either hotkeyed it or macro'd it to their mousewheel (this was later patched out) to break shields. Stacking the mechanics of void strike and operator/amp arcanes practically bypasses the entire fight, and void dash significantly trivializes the lure collection side. Players will use a mix of AW, Blink and Void Dash to get around, and Void Dash is spammed often.

One can certainly argue that DE did not predict the way players have trivialized that fight.

Now, is it fun stacking all of those mechanics to push as many tri runs as you can? Sure, if that's your thing. Is it healthy for the game? I'd argue that it is not, or rather the combination of mechanics in which players break (trivialize) the fight is not.

Not that it's really relevant, but why on earth do you think I'm not aware of how old vs new blink worked if I'm making comparisons with coptering? For what it's worth, I don't care either way. Sure you can't spam it as before and there's a brief cooldown between uses, but it is doesn't impact the game to such an extent that the game is less fun because of it. Now you can use whatever AW you want without worrying about movement, and hopefully modular AW will come DE Soon™. Is it less than what it was? Yes. Is the net impact to the game less than what it was? No. Is the game healthier for the change? Yes.

I'm of the same mindset with the new void dash. I don't think the game will be any less for the change, and focus/operators have needed some balance passes for a while now (void strike, energizing dash in particular) whilst making the schools a competitive and viable choice between each other. Tweaking both to be in line with where they are taking the game is much more important, and much healthier for the game, than ensuring people can maintain their 6x3 plus runs.

But hey, we can agree to disagree. Just remember that DE will steer the game towards their vision. Getting worked up over changes in a game is not worth losing sleep over, regardless of how passionate you are for the game.

A void blast is a void blast no matter the school. The focus schools add secondary effects such as shield regen or a slow proc, it doesn't change the void blast to a grapple or ranged attack.

 

Yes waybounds are the passive upgrades for the operator as a whole, no doubt that's why they had mind sprint enabled; to create a more apples-to-apples comparison for us.

 

It's easy to sit behind a 'we don't know enough' stance, however ignoring what wasn't said is as silly as ignoring what was said. Not one of the team commented that something was not right, no one interjected that mind sprint didn't seem to be working and that it should be quicker or further or that it was reacting in some unexpected way. The new void dash functioned as everyone in that room expected it to function.

Dude, no one has pitchforks. We're just saying that this currently looks like a really bad change to a thing we want not to be bad. To a thing that is currently not bad. Sure improvements can be made, but this clearly isn't an improvement. It's a reduction.

 

Again, coptering was an exploit, Void dash is not an exploit.

Now, if people are exploiting void dash with macros then disable macro inputs or invalidate pizzas for the operator. This change is clearly not intended to address that use case.

 

My comment on the before and after blink nerf is that de implemented, then eventually walked back the nerf and yet it is still in a lesser state than it was originally. I'd never spoken to anyone that thought the old blink was bad other than the other archwings didn't have it.

Had de wanted to fix the issue of the community only using a singular archwing they'd have added blink to every archwing as it was, not depreciated it to the point of near invalidity.

 

You say these tools are excessive, but what about the excessive nothingness designed into the game? 

As others have stated; the speed and fluidity are a large part of what makes this game fun for a lot of people and this is essentially a blow to that fun. You may or may not have noticed this, but there's a lot of dead space in Warframe. There are a lot of empty corridors and huge empty tiles and tilesets, there's a lot of nothing inbetween objectives and groups of enemies. A lot of us use void dash as a way of not painstakingly trudging through endless bland and empty rooms, it's not something that comes right away, it takes a little time and some practice, but you get to a point where void dash is comfortable and suddenly that really slow frame that always gets left behind in exterminate missions feels useable, you can catch up with the rest of the squad and contribute to the game. When someone has activated another excavator and you're trying to get to it at breakneack speeds with a powercell. When you're taking on the eidolons and it does a stamp sending you off into the distance, you're suddenly not just holding forward on the joystick for 45 seconds, you can dash a couple of times and your back into the fun. When you're fighting the profit taker, and it deploys the shield pylons, you can get over there and deal with them and get back to the fight again. You can scale the mushroom trees in a way that uses a skill you've developed rather than stopping and opening the gearwheel and selecting an archwing and then holding (x).

This is some of what we'll lose if the void dash is changed to what was shown in the dev stream. This is some of what would have to be revisited by de to preserve the fun the current dash brings.

 

I understand it's sometimes hard to see the situation from another's point of view so I tried to be as descriptive as I could, but perhaps it's just not for everyone.

 

Yeah, if anything taught us that de don't care for our opinion it was the release state of railjack.

No sleep lost, just would hate to see myself and others deprived of a fun mechanic.

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hace 39 minutos, (PSN)BdotRASS dijo:

You say these tools are excessive, but what about the excessive nothingness designed into the game? 

As others have stated; the speed and fluidity are a large part of what makes this game fun for a lot of people and this is essentially a blow to that fun. You may or may not have noticed this, but there's a lot of dead space in Warframe. There are a lot of empty corridors and huge empty tiles and tilesets, there's a lot of nothing inbetween objectives and groups of enemies. A lot of us use void dash as a way of not painstakingly trudging through endless bland and empty rooms, it's not something that comes right away, it takes a little time and some practice, but you get to a point where void dash is comfortable and suddenly that really slow frame that always gets left behind in exterminate missions feels useable, you can catch up with the rest of the squad and contribute to the game. When someone has activated another excavator and you're trying to get to it at breakneack speeds with a powercell. When you're taking on the eidolons and it does a stamp sending you off into the distance, you're suddenly not just holding forward on the joystick for 45 seconds, you can dash a couple of times and your back into the fun. When you're fighting the profit taker, and it deploys the shield pylons, you can get over there and deal with them and get back to the fight again. You can scale the mushroom trees in a way that uses a skill you've developed rather than stopping and opening the gearwheel and selecting an archwing and then holding (x).

This is some of what we'll lose if the void dash is changed to what was shown in the dev stream. This is some of what would have to be revisited by de to preserve the fun the current dash brings.

I understand it's sometimes hard to see the situation from another's point of view so I tried to be as descriptive as I could, but perhaps it's just not for everyone.

Dude, seriously, I couldn't agree more with you. Some people commenting here are so blind that they wouldn't notice a turd even if it fall straight on their faces. I always say that some tilesets need a rework, a revisit or however they want to call it; the thing is that they are OBSOLETE at this point of the game. Defense enemies get constantly stuck on big maps, capture missions where you have to travel 1.5K mts to extraction after the damn objective is complete in 25 seconds, disruptions with many empty rooms, stairs that "spit you" out of bounds, friendship doors (no idea why those things still exist), and so on. I wish there was at least dedicated tilesets for statiionary mission types (like defense), instead of recycling a chunk of a generic map, put a objective in the middle and call it a day. It seems that no matter how awful it can be, because if it can delay us, is a win for DE.

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23 hours ago, Rise said:

After looking through the forum post, is there any way we'd be able to get the option to use the older Void Dash instead of being forced to use the new one?

I think that'd be a win-win for players that rather keep the old Void Dash versus the players that prefer the newer one.

This way, you can choose which Void Dash fits your gameplay the best. It allows for more build customization in a way, which is a good thing.

this ^

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The new void dash looks so slow that there will no longer be much of any reason to use void dash for mobility anymore.  Hopefully it would still be worth using for the mobility of it (compared to parkour) if you had waybounds maxed.

Also, for optimal Eidolon hunting, we currently void dash forward and backward into the head to proc virtuos shadow.  If we can't do that anymore, then we'll just be standing around waiting in between shield breaks, which would just be less interactive, fun, and interesting.  We can work around not having backward void dash, as long as it's spammable to some kind of degree, and as long as it still procs shadow.

Super interested to see all the detailed changes intended though.

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53 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

some tilesets need a rework (...)

It seems that no matter how awful it can be, because if it can delay us, is a win for DE.

And the problem is that said reworks often manage to make the issues worse. Looking at you, Corpus Ship tile set. In tinfoil hat mode, I often think that making missions needlessly longer by tile set design is actually a conscious decision.

On the topic of Void Dash, I kind of like the idea that people suggested with tap for old, hold for new.

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The 2 things I use operator for, are dash across the map, especially through NPC spam, and recharging energy through zenurik.

Seeing as both appear to be getting nerfed, I am nothing but excited for this update.

It would make sense to me to add to the game, instead of deleting things to justify content - how good can the content be if it can't stand on its own?

We will see how bad we get hit but I already mentally started preparing myself to play hildryn from here on out etc. 20 minutes after the stream but we will see.

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il y a 2 minutes, 60framespersecond a dit :

And the problem is that said reworks often manage to make the issues worse. Looking at you, Corpus Ship tile set. In tinfoil hat mode, I often think that making missions needlessly longer by tile set design is actually a conscious decision.

On the topic of Void Dash, I kind of like the idea that people suggested with tap for old, hold for new.

The new corpus tileset really show the state of modern warframe: Looking pretty at the detriment of gameplay, with huge setpieces that amount to nothing and replacing old and beloved elements by the worst thing possible (i really miss the oldest corpus defense mission).

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1 hour ago, (PSN)BdotRASS said:

 

I understand it's sometimes hard to see the situation from another's point of view so I tried to be as descriptive as I could, but perhaps it's just not for everyone.

Right.... You want everybody to see your Point of View but you make no Attempt to see theirs.... 

The Hypocrisy is Delicious 😝 !!!

17 minutes ago, eboomer said:

Also, for optimal Eidolon hunting, we currently void dash forward and backward into the head to proc virtuos shadow.  If we can't do that anymore, then we'll just be standing around waiting in between shield breaks, which would just be less interactive, fun, and interesting.  We can work around not having backward void dash, as long as it's spammable to some kind of degree, and as long as it still procs shadow.

This pretty much the only concern I can get behind because The Propa Scaffold just simply refuses to Crit if Virtuos Shadow isn't Active.... And Virtuous Shadow doesn't always Proc hence the spamming that DE is accusing us of is actually their Fault because you have to Spam it until it works....

21 minutes ago, eboomer said:

Super interested to see all the detailed changes intended though.

Indeed.... Chances are the Virtuos Shadow issue might not be an Issue if they plan on Deleting Madurai's Void Strike....

2 minutes ago, (PSN)INFINITYWART said:

Will there be any other ways to use/spend extra focus rep earned after schools are maxed out?

Please Read The First Post... 🙄

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Will there be major changes to the current Brilliant Eidolon Shard requirement for unbinding way-bound Focus nodes?

I feel that limiting players to a single method of earning Brilliant Eidolon Shards is detrimental to the enjoyment of this game.  I discuss this topic in more detail here:  https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1302664-brilliant-eidolon-shards-make-them-tradeable-andor-give-us-more-varied-ways-of-earning-them/#comment-12462922

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I'm really not sure what to think of this change, I don't like the idea of replacing my melee to force myself into my frame, if I want to play Operator only, of course still too early to judge, but I rather have the type of overall where it focus all on the Operator, I did make my own "version" of how I think the Operator System should be changed.

I've put it into a Spoiler, cuz well, Spoilers! 

Spoiler

So with the New War finally granting us our Drifter (or Adult Operators), I've been wanting to use my Drifter in all the main missions that I can however with how weak the Focus System is, it's borderline impossible to do so. (Yes. I know there are Arcanes, but that besides the point)

Now there has been chatter about DE reworking the Focus System to be more Combat Friendly for the Operators, however, we have no information on what DE plan with the Focus System, so for now this is how I'll rework the system.

Note: Before anyone asks, all Focus Points (that you spent) and Shards will be refunded to you. So we can reset any mistakes we made.

Transference: Let's start with the basic combat first.

⦁   Transference Static Debuff Removed & Way-bound Passives Removed: Removing this unwanted debuff will stop any annoyance of "dying" as a Drifter/Operator and no longer has any use with the New Combat System. Also, as the Drifter/Operator now get the default values equal to (or more) the Way-bound Passives no longer are needed.
⦁   Health (1,000) & Armor (225): The Drifter/Operator gains the following amount of Health and Armor by default. (Can only be modded with Arcanes)
⦁   Shields (1,000) & Energy (190): The Drifter/Operator gains the following amount of Shields and Energy by default. (Can only be modded with Arcanes)
⦁  Normal Passives: All Normal passives from -all- Schools are unlocked by default. (This change will allow us to use our favorite ones without hazzle) Note: DE will need to Balance each passive, so perp your butts for Nerfs!)
 (New!) Transcendence: Named after the old Focus System, Transcendence is a New System where if your Warframe is destroyed, you are ejected. (Just like in the Trailer!) Note: You'll remain as your Drifter/Operator until you either complete the Mission or Recall a Warframe or Mech. (New Gear Item, the reason why I make it a gear item as this will give the player a choice to remain as Drifter/Operator or hop back into a Frame or Mech) 
Additional Notes: The Drifter/Operator can now use K-Drives, They can also use the Gear Wheel, however only the Drifter can slide/roll and can bullet jump. The Drifter is also the only one who can now go into bleed-out state, like any other Warframe, however their bleed-out timer is much longer. (Note: The Revive System has been scrapped, if you die, you just Re-spawn but still lose XP)
___________________________________________________________________________
The Drifter Kit: All of the "Void" Powers have been removed in favor for the Drifters Kit. They still keep their cooldown and can now be Modified & Enhanced with a brand new Skill Tree, unlocked for them.
Note: Only the Drifters are able to use the Drifter's Kit, the Operators will still keep their Amps and Void Powers, Obviously.
⦁  Sidearm & Dagger: The Drifter is now equipped with the Sirocco Pistol and the Rumble-jack Dagger, both the Dagger and Pistol can be modded. However they are the only weapons they can use.
⦁  Healing Injection: Healing Injection functions the same as it did, however it now is granted Enhancements, depending on the School.
⦁  Smoke Screen: Smoke Screen the same as it did, however it now is granted Enhancements, depending on the School.
⦁  Target Radar: Target Radar functions the same as it did, however it now is granted Enhancements, depending on the School.
___________________________________________________________________________
 

Keep in mind, this is a old conspet, before this Dev-workshop came out of, so you will see some odd things here

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