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The Rundown on Dojo Lighting and Texture Bugs


[DE]Helen
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Warframe’s Dojo decorators have been troubled by lighting and texture bugs, and we want to update you about what our QA team has discovered with the help of your reports.

First, thank you for your screenshots and for directing us to specific builds in your Dojos. Without those details, we wouldn’t have been able to discover what was wrong.

At this point, we know the cause of each bug. Unfortunately, the fixes aren’t easy. I’ll explain in detail below, bug by bug.

The Polychrome of the room in which a player stands seems to bleed into the adjacent room when the player looks at that room through an open door.

The mechanics of this bug are the same as a bug that affected Operator hair darkness some time ago.

Lighting variance of this nature happens when camera position determines lighting. We were able to change that logic for Operator hair, but if we applied the same fix to Dojos, all of Warframe’s performance would take a significant hit.

Given that this bug does not actually change room colour, only the appearance while the player walks between rooms, we don’t plan to change anything. The available fix would damage performance beyond Dojos, into core Warframe gameplay – open zones, missions, minigames, you name it – which would cause a myriad of new problems. For now, camera position will remain the lighting determinant.

The room’s lighting colours suddenly change from the colours chosen by the decorator.

Spawn points set off this bug. Sometimes, a player spawn will make the game think two polychromes are active at one time. In such cases, the colours of an adjacent room affect the room in which the player stands. We have not yet determined how to separate the code logic that processes polychrome from player location.

The room’s lighting colours change after the player uses a Transporter.

As with the bug described above, the room spawn activated by the transporter makes the game think two polychromes are active at one time. We have not yet determined how to separate the game logic that processes polychrome from player location.

Shadows are aggressive, especially on Nintendo Switch.

Aggressive shadows are a result of engine limitations. This issue isn’t exclusive to Nintendo Switch, but it’s most prevalent there because of the console’s hardware. We have some optimization tricks up our sleeves that we hope will solve the problem.

Metallic reflections seem out of place or reflect nonexistent light.

Metallic reflection issues are peculiar, because they aren’t technically bugged. The reflection changes are a result of changes we made to Orokin tilesets. We recently updated gold textures to make them more, well, gold. 

We realized, however, that the improvements we made to Orokin gold hindered darker tilesets, like the Orokin Derelict, for example. The abnormalities in Dojo metallics reflect abnormalities in metallics for all of Warframe. Our team has been working on touch ups to affected textures in the Orokin Derelict. We also might be able to tint Dojo metallics specifically, which would resolve reflections in rooms without light sources. We’re looking into it.

Dojos are an eclectic sandbox of objects, skyboxes, and textures from all of Warframe. Nowhere else in Warframe does every tileset, camera decision, and texture meet. Usually, Dojo bugs are isolated to Dojos themselves, and when that happens, we can find a fix pretty easily. Other times, however, the collision of so many different Warframe elements turns Dojos into a stress case for code logic that wouldn’t otherwise be an issue. The ongoing lighting and texture issues are stress cases of that nature. We will be able to fix most of them, but the risk of damage to core gameplay means we must be careful.

I hope this helps shed some light on why we haven’t discussed these bugs since we first acknowledged your reports. QA is going after these bugs, but not with the vigor and aggression of a person going after a fly with a rolled up newspaper. In these cases, it’s more accurate to picture the delicate care of a surgeon performing heart surgery.

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Oh man that sounds crazy complicated. I really appreciate all the work that has gone into dojos over the years, and especially with this recent update, This work is good, damn good, and I just love what can be pulled off with this entire system of customization incarnate.

I did notice one issue that is missing from this post though, even though you guys probably already know, and it's inspiration hall lighting at specific points in the inspiration hall resulting in decorations becoming super dark or super bright based on distance to the light source. I wanna wish there was a way to program light sources to have less of an effect on decorations very near it, while not affecting everything else, but I get the whole thing is a balancing act in progress so I might be wishing for the impossible.

 

Still, I love dojo decorating, bugs and all. Thanks.

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Thanks for looking into it.
Loving all of the new decorations with the cetus and kuva fortress decoration sets,you've outdone yourselves. 😎
Also pls make the dax bust obtainable in game and the oro decoration. It has been so many years.

Edited by wizardeiges
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Does this also apply to other elements of the game and lighting engines? Such as the Akarius explosion fx not following energy color when you are a client? Since I think there are some complicated issues with it that causes it to not function compared to other weapons with similar fx.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Helen said:

We were able to change that logic for Operator hair, but if we applied the same fix to Dojos, all of Warframe’s performance would take a significant hit.

Given that this bug does not actually change room colour, only the appearance while the player walks between rooms, we don’t plan to change anything. The available fix would damage performance beyond Dojos, into core Warframe gameplay – open zones, missions, minigames, you name it – which would cause a myriad of new problems. For now, camera position will remain the lighting determinant.

Thank you for explaining this. I wish the circumstances were different, but this is a good reason to leave the situation as is. I'm glad that the focus is on core game performance.

Edited by LillyRaccune
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It seems what I gather from your post is that the same coding that applies to the majority of the game also affects the dojo. Fare enough. I can understand that the dojo is not a major part of the the reason why people play the game, but surely, if you are encouraging players of your game to submit their dojos 4 times a year to a competition, to earn goodies, you would find a solution that fixes the problems we have now - by seperating some of the code for dojos - so in the future you don't have to constantly run into problems for every change you make to the main core of the game.

Saying that, I do hope some of the problems you are encounting with the dojo get resolved and that there can be a solution achieved in the future that can fix the problems on a more or less permanent basis.

Thanks for the post, Helen.

Edited by (PSN)SABRETOOTH1971
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There's also the fact that TNW patch came through and decimated some of our dojos.  There are grossly oversized objects in my dojo that you still haven't fixed, which completely break entire rooms both in functionality (blocking doors) as well as breaking the decorative builds that so much time and so many resources were poured into.  

You have contests for dojos.  You have plat costs in dojos.  You have hundreds of assets available in them that I'm sure took time and resources from other parts of the game.  You cannot treat this like it isn't part of the game and experience for a lot of players.  Yet you've broken this thing I've invested my time into and you're just completely ignoring it.  You won't even acknowledge that this is an issue.  It seems to be the consensus among players that have had this happen that when you break things, you expect the players to put in the time and effort to fix what you broke.  

Not only am I not going to re-spend my time fixing what you broke out of just the pure principle of the matter, but why bother?  If you're just going to break stuff and then refuse to even acknowledge it, who's to say how many times you're going to break it and how many times I'm going to have to fix your mistake?  What is even the point of engaging with the game at all if this is how you treat players?  I'm not rebuilding something just to have you knock it down again and then refuse to even acknowledge that there's an issue, much less fix it.

The way you've handled the bugs with dojos has all but driven me from this game.  There's zero point in giving you money or engagement if this is how I'm going to be treated.

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12 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

There's also the fact that TNW patch came through and decimated some of our dojos.  There are grossly oversized objects in my dojo that you still haven't fixed, which completely break entire rooms both in functionality (blocking doors) as well as breaking the decorative builds that so much time and so many resources were poured into.  

You have contests for dojos.  You have plat costs in dojos.  You have hundreds of assets available in them that I'm sure took time and resources from other parts of the game.  You cannot treat this like it isn't part of the game and experience for a lot of players.  Yet you've broken this thing I've invested my time into and you're just completely ignoring it.  You won't even acknowledge that this is an issue.  It seems to be the consensus among players that have had this happen that when you break things, you expect the players to put in the time and effort to fix what you broke.  

Not only am I not going to re-spend my time fixing what you broke out of just the pure principle of the matter, but why bother?  If you're just going to break stuff and then refuse to even acknowledge it, who's to say how many times you're going to break it and how many times I'm going to have to fix your mistake?  What is even the point of engaging with the game at all if this is how you treat players?  I'm not rebuilding something just to have you knock it down again and then refuse to even acknowledge that there's an issue, much less fix it.

The way you've handled the bugs with dojos has all but driven me from this game.  There's zero point in giving you money or engagement if this is how I'm going to be treated.

Dude...chill man. It's not like the entire game revolves around the dojo.

Edited by (NSW)Cion
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12 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

There's also the fact that TNW patch came through and decimated some of our dojos.  There are grossly oversized objects in my dojo that you still haven't fixed, which completely break entire rooms both in functionality (blocking doors) as well as breaking the decorative builds that so much time and so many resources were poured into.  

You have contests for dojos.  You have plat costs in dojos.  You have hundreds of assets available in them that I'm sure took time and resources from other parts of the game.  You cannot treat this like it isn't part of the game and experience for a lot of players.  Yet you've broken this thing I've invested my time into and you're just completely ignoring it.  You won't even acknowledge that this is an issue.  It seems to be the consensus among players that have had this happen that when you break things, you expect the players to put in the time and effort to fix what you broke.  

Not only am I not going to re-spend my time fixing what you broke out of just the pure principle of the matter, but why bother?  If you're just going to break stuff and then refuse to even acknowledge it, who's to say how many times you're going to break it and how many times I'm going to have to fix your mistake?  What is even the point of engaging with the game at all if this is how you treat players?  I'm not rebuilding something just to have you knock it down again and then refuse to even acknowledge that there's an issue, much less fix it.

The way you've handled the bugs with dojos has all but driven me from this game.  There's zero point in giving you money or engagement if this is how I'm going to be treated.

I had 1 decoration that got bigger and a few resource decoration got small, it's not that bad, i had countless rooms that never got affected to begin with.

So that decoration that blocks the door, simply select it and delete or resize it. it's 1 decoration, how hard is it to reposition it?

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1 hour ago, KIREEK said:

I had 1 decoration that got bigger and a few resource decoration got small, it's not that bad, i had countless rooms that never got affected to begin with.

So that decoration that blocks the door, simply select it and delete or resize it. it's 1 decoration, how hard is it to reposition it?

One decoration for you.  I had whole rooms that took me days get completely destroyed.  The pieces that got resized were painstakingly meshed inside of dozens of other pieces.  This isn't resizing one thing for 2 seconds.  This is stripping an entire build to put several pieces back how they're supposed to be.

If there was an option to resize in constrained movement so that the selected piece didn't come flying out of position when I pick it up to resize it, I would be minorly annoyed at the sheer number of things I have to resize, but it would be a simple matter of just selecting and resizing.  This is not that.  At all.

If I select the resized part manually and just pick it up in free movement, the game sees that its anchor point is currently forced into collision and clipped through solid surfaces.  This is how all the pretty things in dojos get made.  Forcing clipping.  When it sees that it's clipped, it unclips it, forcefully, putting it where I don't want it.  Re-clipping the part, blindly, through dozens of other pieces that it's buried in would be impossible..  In order to resize these things, because there is no option to do so in constrained movement, I would have to remove literally hundreds of pieces that have been carefully meshed together so that there is no collision, resize the piece and then put them all back.  I would have to do this for every piece that they oversized.  There are dozens.  Imagine stripping an engine to get to the insides.  That much work, for dozens of pieces.

I'll give you an example.  I built a railjack-sized infested angler fish.  When building it, I actually put in bones to act as a guide while building.  I left them there though because the fish is big enough and detailed enough that you can actually get into its mouth and go in and poke around in its organs, and the bones that I put in just as a basic size guide actually look like the ribs while inside.  It has individual scales and fins and tendrils and tumorous growths like you would expect an infested creature to have.  Again, this is big enough for a warframe to climb inside and jump around in.  I measured it.  It has the jaw size to take a bite out of a railjack nacelle.  In this room, only one thing got resized.  One of the ribs.  If I grab it to resize it, it pulls it out of the fish.  Because of collision, there would be no getting it back in.  This means that in order to resize it (I'm not deleting it, it's part of the build.) I would have to manually pull every single tumor, tendril, fin, scale, and other parts used as part of its body off the side of the fish to get to where it is and then resize it, then put everything back.  This isn't removing one or two parts.  This is removing part 1 that has collision meshed with part 2 that has collision meshed with part 3 and so on for dozens of parts.  To get to one part that *I* didn't screw up.  One part.  In one room out of many.

Oh.  And the rib that got resized is now so big that it covers the entire railjack-sized fish and you can't see it anymore.  Totally not a bug, I'm sure.

They destroyed more hours of work than a lot of mid MR players have in the game.  How hard could it be indeed.

Edited by (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2022-03-17 at 5:58 PM, [DE]Helen said:

The room’s lighting colours suddenly change from the colours chosen by the decorator.

Spawn points set off this bug. Sometimes, a player spawn will make the game think two polychromes are active at one time. In such cases, the colours of an adjacent room affect the room in which the player stands. We have not yet determined how to separate the code logic that processes polychrome from player location.

Huh, so possible theory on that was correct. Welp, spawn point will never be in the spawn room, I'll just quarantine it off for now and allow people to walk into the main room for trading and such. 

Cannot thank you enough for putting the time and effort into trying to figure out how to combat these bugs. 

Hope it gets resolved soon <3

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Found a supposed fix for the Dojo Lighting not changing in the spawn room. 

Delete the spawn pad in the desired room which instantly reset the colors to what I had them set to, put it in another one (without colors), leave the dojo, go back inside, original rooms colors will retain what they were supposed to be. 

After doing such, and confirmed about the original spawn rooms colors coming back, I did an experiment, putting a polychrome in the clean room with the spawn pad. 

Placing, changing colors + lightings, rushing the polychrome, left the dojo, re-entered, the new blank room with new colors RETAINED them. 

Upon seeing this, I dismantled the spawn pad again, put it back into my original spawn room, left the dojo, came back in, and sure enough, the colors were fixed. 

I have done this in the past, but with rooms that had been touched and HAD new colors. 

Possibility that it could be just placing the pad into a blank room, or just dismantling it so many times the game just says "here, take your colors back." 

Hopefully this assists others / assists in the effort in fixing the bug of the spawn pad acting as a polychrome

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