Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Focus School System Rework - A Broad Overview


[DE]Megan

Recommended Posts

I love DE and the DEVS they always do what is best with time.

For the mean time however, please take these 75 post from people who dislike Focus changes.

 

Spoiler

z1pm1wY.png

Spoiler

bUiSxPZ.png

Spoiler

JArr0U4.png

I must reinstate DE is great and the forum mods are great!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2022-04-08 at 6:49 PM, taiiat said:

could..... this instead always wait for you to release, rather than automatically using it when it's done Charging?

 

  • if you feel like Void Strike "needs" a 40 Second Cooldown, it seems like whatever you've designed isn't particularly well suited for this game. this isn't a slow paced game after all. 40 Seconds is an eternity.
    besides, the theme of Madurai is recklessness isn't it. having an eternity Cooldown doesn't sound very reckless to me. quite the opposite, that sounds incredibly strategic.
    if you want, you can add a skill based way to reduce the Cooldown instead, as long as it's something you can do in most any Combat situation.
  • i've always wanted to make good use of Void Singularity, it's just always been crap because Void Static ruins both Singularity and Void/Stealth mode by Alerting any and all Enemies within a big 'ol Bubble around you.
    it's a good tool, we've just been punished for trying to use it. it doesn't have to be removed, and it would be nice if it wasn't, heh.
  • could you add a skill based way to recover Vazarin Revie Charges? you want synergy, and recuperating things with synergy is kind've a big way to do this.
  • can the Vazarain Heal/Regen be like, 50/s + 1% max Health/s, or something? just to keep it being actually useful on things like Objectives. since it hasn't been and is not really doing much for an Objective when it has like 100,000 Health.
  • overall i'd even say, fundamentally build in some recuperating properties with synergistic use if you really want to encourage that more strongly. let us speed up Cooldowns or Regenerations in various ways by being active in Combat/Gameplay. for some perhaps specifically spacekid/Warframe, and others with either.

 

Edit: oh, you know. another option would be instead of Dash or Sling, spacekid could just essentially have Mach Rush. ala hold down such Button to just move forward in 3D space at fairly high speed. literally just let us fly like a Plane while consuming Energy over time. when you want to stop, let go of the Button.

again not totally sure where to talk specifically about Focus and spacekid, so i guess... i'll do it here.

 

  • Sling is just slower and worse 99% of the time than Dash, just plainly. slower to cross long distances, slower to quickly Dash once and switch back to Warframe. more time spent not moving when trying to use a Mobility tool.
    • and Sling still can't move omnidirectionally, while Dash could. so for those on Controllers especially but also just for everyone, moving anywhere but in wide open spaces is simply more laborious and tedious now.
  • why did you nerf the transition between spacekid and Warframe. did that really need to get slower? you accomplished clientside spacekid specifically so that the transition would be faster for less than ideal sessions..... but then nerf the entire thing so now everyone transitions at the speed of a moderately laggy Session. what gives?
    • i don't use Elevate but it's a shame for those that did. and for trying to do that mixing of both sides that you want Players to do, this only makes that slower and more awkward.
  • the Casting Animations you added to all of these Focus Abilities makes them much slower to use than before, compounding the slowness added overall. these things used to instantly activate upon Dashing or Punching, and we could do something else immediately. now we have Animations upon Animations to wait for. again, more time spent waiting rather than doing the things we're trying to do.

 

 

sortof copying Mach Rush or Reave would be better than Sling, if you wanted something that is technically more controllable than Dash. in either case, having reduced Gravity momentarily after performing the Mobility action would help with that, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2022-05-06 at 4:54 AM, taiiat said:

again not totally sure where to talk specifically about Focus and spacekid, so i guess... i'll do it here.

 

  • Sling is just slower and worse 99% of the time than Dash, just plainly. slower to cross long distances, slower to quickly Dash once and switch back to Warframe. more time spent not moving when trying to use a Mobility tool.
    • and Sling still can't move omnidirectionally, while Dash could. so for those on Controllers especially but also just for everyone, moving anywhere but in wide open spaces is simply more laborious and tedious now.
  • why did you nerf the transition between spacekid and Warframe. did that really need to get slower? you accomplished clientside spacekid specifically so that the transition would be faster for less than ideal sessions..... but then nerf the entire thing so now everyone transitions at the speed of a moderately laggy Session. what gives?
    • i don't use Elevate but it's a shame for those that did. and for trying to do that mixing of both sides that you want Players to do, this only makes that slower and more awkward.
  • the Casting Animations you added to all of these Focus Abilities makes them much slower to use than before, compounding the slowness added overall. these things used to instantly activate upon Dashing or Punching, and we could do something else immediately. now we have Animations upon Animations to wait for. again, more time spent waiting rather than doing the things we're trying to do.

 

 

sortof copying Mach Rush or Reave would be better than Sling, if you wanted something that is technically more controllable than Dash. in either case, having reduced Gravity momentarily after performing the Mobility action would help with that, too.

Tweaks are incoming, but until then I recommend transferring to operator in the air so you can immediately start your sling, hit melee to instantly transfer back to warframe, and then immediately use an ability or roll to cancel the melee attack when needed. Feels pretty good with practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This whole change feels weird. Which I can agree to the point that it could use a face-lift so to speak, but I am REALLY disliking some of the changes.

Void sling for instance, is flat out terrible... I want my void dash back!  Sling is still far too slow even after it was sped up, feels wonky, and it's wow factor is abysmal. Magic space ninja child abilities: "void dash" 😮. "void rope" 🥱

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm different because I'm loving void sling! Yes, it's no longer blindly being able to dash omnidirectionally with no idea where you're going, but the overall feeling of control with void sling feels more organic, controllable and understandable.

As for the delay, I like it more than hate it because it's not too much to where I can't chain well and fast travel, nor is it too little that I can't control direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I guess I'm different because I'm loving void sling! Yes, it's no longer blindly being able to dash omnidirectionally with no idea where you're going, but the overall feeling of control with void sling feels more organic, controllable and understandable.

I agree... But then they took that away in the recent Hotfix and now it as all the issues that Void Dash used to have....

2 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

As for the delay, I like it more than hate it because it's not too much to where I can't chain well and fast travel, nor is it too little that I can't control direction

What Delay are you people Talking About ?

I've been using Operator more lately and I've experienced none of this Delay everyone else claims they have....

I can Immediately Sling after Transference and I can immediately Transfer after Slinging.... I barely even Catch a Glimpse of My Character Model when I do this.... It's the most Responsive Thing even in Lag....

The only Delays I've been Experience are with the Abilities them Selves as those still appear to be Affected by Network Latency (Trying to Cast Void Strike in a 400ms Environment causes the Animation to play Twice just like the Guard Mode Activation on Voidrig).

The only time I experienced actual transference Delay is if I try to Spam Transference for no other Reason than to spam Transference.... And for the most part.... There actually has never been any reason to actually Do this other than Magus Elevate/Anomaly...

Which I don't think we need anymore since now if you die and you're using Unairu, you can just Get Right Back Up free if charge.... 👀

Im currently farming 10 Emergence Saviors just so can Make this Gimmick More Consistent.... I should be able to Get A Minimum of 8 Seconds Guaranteed to Get Revenge before Actually Dying with the Recent Changes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Lutesque said:

What Delay are you people Talking About ?

I've been using Operator more lately and I've experienced none of this Delay everyone else claims they have....

It's just the time for determining your distance and location of your sling. Some players would rather just rush to the next area instead of aiming tactically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the Void Sling changes, I am beyond happy. I cannot speak about any of the other Focus changes however, the cool-down for operator switching is annoying but nothing I can't deal with now. I have no issues with the update but I just wanted my Void Dash back  and had/have nothing else in  mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

It's just the time for determining your distance and location of your sling. Some players would rather just rush to the next area instead of aiming tactically.

Ironically enough they made it worse when they Sped it Up.... Now I cant control where I'm going to save my life....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The new Focus rework as far as awarding Focus (even though I don't need it, own and have everything max'd) is flawed, what's the use of having a Lens equipped let alone as a mission reward now when any Focus you get goes straight to the Focus School that's active, kick in the guts for us long term players who have their gear with a Lens on it and possibly want to spread the focus around without having to be forced to play with other active schools.

Yes it helps new players but again us oldies get rundown by a change that only targets/benefit new players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

what's the use of having a Lens equipped let alone as a mission reward now when any Focus you get goes straight to the Focus School that's active

My guess is it's for the people to Strap it on so that they can Unlock another School to make it active..

.

4 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

kick in the guts for us long term players

When wil long term players learn that a Side Affect of already owning everything means there's little DE can give you....

4 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Yes it helps new players but again us oldies get rundown by a change that only targets/benefit new players.

I don't know what to tell ya.... You beat the game.... There's nothing left for you to do..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

The new Focus rework as far as awarding Focus (even though I don't need it, own and have everything max'd) is flawed, what's the use of having a Lens equipped let alone as a mission reward now when any Focus you get goes straight to the Focus School that's active, kick in the guts for us long term players who have their gear with a Lens on it and possibly want to spread the focus around without having to be forced to play with other active schools.

Yes it helps new players but again us oldies get rundown by a change that only targets/benefit new players.

as an old player with maxed focus, the new way of gaining focus is amazing. it's not better focus / minute than ESO or better focus / day dolons but it's convenient and straightforward and has a low barrier to entry -- which is perfect. getting fancy endgame gear shouldn't mean you get to be 10x better than everyone else, it should mean you're chasing the last 10% better than everyone else

now if only they'd made all three methods faster or made the insane cost of focus abilities lower at the same time, but RIP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Lutesque said:

My guess is it's for the people to Strap it on so that they can Unlock another School to make it active...

When wil long term players learn that a Side Affect of already owning everything means there's little DE can give you....

I don't know what to tell ya.... You beat the game.... There's nothing left for you to do..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

The other Lens's I have equipped get stuff all compared to the active school.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like you said I guess it's so you can get into that School and then get Focus for it with no Lens equipped.

9 hours ago, TuxedoCatfish said:

as an old player with maxed focus, the new way of gaining focus is amazing. it's not better focus / minute than ESO or better focus / day dolons but it's convenient and straightforward and has a low barrier to entry -- which is perfect. getting fancy endgame gear shouldn't mean you get to be 10x better than everyone else, it should mean you're chasing the last 10% better than everyone else

now if only they'd made all three methods faster or made the insane cost of focus abilities lower at the same time, but RIP

Yes it's easier than the old days where we had a Lens on everything we killed with, but if I pick up a Focus orb and I'm killing the most with the Lens on the gun or Warframe then I'd like to see the Focus for it to be more than what the Active school gets at least.

Guess I'll get used to it, not like I have anything to spend the excess Focus on at the moment. 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2022-04-08 at 12:52 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Focus School is in session!

The Focus System is getting an extensive rework in the Angels of the Zariman update coming April 27th on all platforms to refresh the gameplay potential of Operators, movement, School identity and balance.

Almost every aspect of Focus is being reviewed & touched ...

The Official Patch Notes on launch will house all final information.

We felt it was a priority to give intent & vision to the community in workshop form, so let’s get to it!

 

WHAT IS FOCUS?

Focus has been a lot of things over the years. What started in 2015 as a pivotal decision moment in Warframe’s story has continually evolved into its own form of gameplay: Convergence was introduced alongside Focus Lenses to give players an added boost to collecting Focus,

Update 22: Plains of Eidolon shook the system up to add new Focus School nodes and Way-Bound abilities, and

Update 22.6 attempted to bring the 5 schools’ power levels closer together with numerous abilities reworked.

 

At its core, Focus aimed to be an exciting new path to enjoy Warframe from the lens of another character.

What we’ve come to realize over the many years is that there was a lack of true synergy between Operator and Warframe.

We hope to change that while also bringing something fresh to the table!


VIDEO COMPANION

We covered many aspects of this workshop in our Devstream, please see the timestamped section here for convenience & more details:

 

We hope this broad overview of the changes thus far will help guide the transition for these changes and assist you in early planning on how you will revisit Focus for your own purposes.

Note that the above may or may not see changes before release.

 

The official Forum Patch Notes will have the final versions of this massive Focus Rework effort!

(DRAFT - INCOMPLETE

TO BE WORKED ON, ADDED TO/"EDITED" LATER)

 

WHAT IS FOCUS?

 

Well, to address that, we really have to take a look at what introduced it, and what it was built upon.

 

A Major Update and Quest called "The War Within."

 

In large part, The War Within was dedicated to INTRODUCING and LEARNING to use a NEW SYSTEM,

which enabled The Operator to Act and be controlled independently of a Warframe.

It enabled MOVING.

The Operator could Walk, Run, Jump and go in different directions (just like "A REAL BOY" or girl, as Pinocchio would have it).*

 

Unlike the previous rework of the Focus System, (Update 22.6), this one changes everything at the level of what The War Within was BUILT UPON (installing as a new system) and BUILD AROUND (teaching and learning to use the new system),which the Focus Schools extend and continue on further from.

So FIRST, everything learned from The War Within (not after it) has been scrapped and replaced with something else.

As such, it's sort of misleading to just say this is a Focus School Rework.

This is a War Within Rework.

If it ISN'T, that's just all the worse.

Because what new players learn from "The War Within" will become instantly useless for what immediately follows on from its conclusion, (kind of like "The New War").

While players who already completed "The War Within" won't be able to learn anything about how the new system works by replaying it.

But don't worry. Everything is now newly explained, without having to think about "The War Within" at all, in a much easier, new way.

 

FIRST:

ASK.

WHAT IS FOCUS?

 

SECOND:

ANSWER (without mentioning "The War Within").

"Focus has been a lot of things over the years.

What started in 2015 as a pivotal decision moment in Warframe’s story has continually evolved into its own form of gameplay: 

Convergence was introduced alongside Focus Lenses to give players an added boost to collecting Focus, 

Update 22: Plains of Eidolon shook the system up to add new Focus School nodes and Way-Bound abilities,

and Update 22.6 attempted to bring the 5 schools’ power levels closer together with numerous abilities reworked.

At its core, Focus aimed to be an exciting new path to enjoy Warframe from the lens of another character.

What we’ve come to realize over the many years is that there was a lack of true synergy between Operator and Warframe.

We hope to change that while also bringing something fresh to the table!"

 

SO, THAT'S WHAT "FOCUS" IS. 

 

(And it's perfectly CLEAR.

There's nothing wishy-washy, or ambiguous,

or otherwise lacking in FOCUS,

when addressing WHAT FOCUS IS.

Right?)

 

THIRD:

VIDEO COMPANION.

"We covered many aspects of this workshop in our Devstream, please see the timestamped section here for convenience & more details:

 

 * (Save "How ‘Pinocchio’ Turned a Real Boy Into a Puppet Who Longs to Be a Real Boy" for The Duviri Paradox, perhaps.

What makes Pinocchio such an important film in the Disney canon?

Beyond the laudable artistic merits of the film itself,  Pinocchio represents Walt Disney at what film historian Leonard Maltin called “the apex of what many of his (later) critics considered to be the realm of the animated cartoon.”

Disney was finally able to breathe after maxing out every line of credit in yet another expensive, certain-to-fail endeavor—a hand-drawn movie about a girl and seven little men—and mortgaging practically everything except for the clothes he was going to wear tomorrow and his last can of beans.)

 

ALSO

Possibly find a way to weave in:

 

farKAGg.png

and:

 

https://r.nf › Warframe › comments › new_arg_or_did...

New arg or did someone have a stroke? - r/Warframe

Apr 22, 2022 — Now I'm imagining Drifter just being this complete loner who hides out making sushi in their rooms instead of hanging out with the other ...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2022-05-12 at 8:02 PM, TuxedoCatfish said:

Sure, but compared to Lua lenses or being able to either solo or find a reliable team for eidolons? I'll stand by it.

And Compared to everything thing else it's Significantly Higher....

Atleast you're not hiding the fact that you are Cherry Picking content to make your point... So That's Something I guess...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Lutesque said:

And Compared to everything thing else it's Significantly Higher....

Atleast you're not hiding the fact that you are Cherry Picking content to make your point... So That's Something I guess...

A few more levels is nothing compared to things that cost hundreds of plat. I'm not "cherry picking" anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rework on the other operator abilities I'd call a net positive, but I kinda wish you'd reworked some of the existing abilities instead of removing them altogether.

I HATE void sling with a passion.  I hate the weird arc, I hate the charge up delay, I hate that you can only move forward with it. My mobility on operator is completely in the trash. it's like valkitty grapple but somehow WORSE.

The enforced delay before you can switch back into frame is a bit annoying, but something I"m ok with.

Having things activate on ability 1 instead of dash feels clunky. I wish there was something to unlock that could merge it back into part of my movements, so I don't have to keep stopping and pressing another button.  I'm willing to take a nerf for the alternate option (e.g. spam-prevention cooldown).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Reb says there was not an operator transference delay built into the game and they are going to make transferring client auth to remove the lag this creates.

The delay I experience is several seconds which does not just come from a host auth delay alone. There is more to it than changing the auth. So now we will have to wait months for Void sling to be fixed when Void dash wasn't broken.

Void sling is getting ability to strafe, but why spend time developing that. We had that in Void Dash.

Just like when the UI changes came in for the end of mission and it was missing features such as leave group, or a working mission clock that took months to fix. Can we not repeat the same cycles?

And just like the Archwing Blink nerf, we now have Teleport stations being added to the open world several years after. Do the teleport stations keep active abilities alive? If they don't it just proves this is the definition of pointless tinkering which is better spent elsewhere.

Are we going to add teleport stations to other missions like we have in Zariman? Don't bother. Just reinstate Dash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

New thoughts on the focus change: none of them are actually strong enough. 
 The level of investment required to max focus exceeds the level of investment required in any other aspect of the game bar none. There literally is no bigger farm than focus. Which has a soft daily cap which can only be overridden with sentient cores which can be gained depending on planetary cycles and how optimized you’ve made yourself for Eidolon hunting which is a late game mechanic in itself. 
 

What I can’t figure out is why the focus schools were made weaker than existing mods or arcanes when it requires more effort to max a school than an arcane and especially a mod. It makes 0 sense and takes progression and walks it backwards. 
 

Why is Zenurik still not instantly refilling energy? Are you worried that it will stop people from spamming pizzas? Or that it would be more useful than arcane energize, it should be.  I mean realistically, the school has one job and it’s not even the best at it. 
 

Why is the power strength boost from Madurai only 40%. That’s no bueno. So, picking a focus school should allow you to revolutionize your mod loadouts. What is that conditional 40% going to get me to drop from my build. Absolutely nothing. I’m still better off going with Umbral Intensify (an never bothering with a conditional operator at all much less the grind) but wait, the mod for my parazon provides 50% power strength. Honestly boost to 110% power strength for Madurai. Yeah, it’s a lot. But also, it should be. One it is conditional and not a permanent buff. Balance says that conditional buffs should be balanced to have a higher ceiling than permanent ones. Also the grind required to max focus schools including the soft daily cap and the complete unavailability of the operator until second dream suggests that these mechanics don’t start until mid game and should be ideal until endgame. 
 

For the Melee school, stop trying to make slams a thing. It makes poor sense for melee users to jump in the air and expose themselves to more firepower generally. Provide good buffs like range, follow through buffs, critical chance buffs, status chance buffs, that are not combo related but mechanic related. If we must tolerate the slam for combo counter fine, but I’m still not going to use it. At late game levels when a stray bullet can one shot, jumping in the air is just not the best strategy. Better off using an operator arcane to immobilize enemies around me and dance between them building my combo counter than to put a target directly on my head. 
 

Unairu is meant to be the survival school but it offers less protection than bronze mods at the start of the game. It’s inexplicable. In an actual mission the ability buttons are bad. It’s incredibly easy to miss the throw. Put it back on void sling. It’s markedly less useful as a thrown ability. And the shield one still asks you to void sling -_-‘ so here’s the thing. The armor boost for warframes should be on par with arcane guardian at the least. There should be a damage reduction skill as the ability button that rivals adaptation. The other ability button should grant overshields which would allow a synergy between the two abilities while still capitalizing off of the armor. 
 

Vazarin…is not an attractive offer generally. I mean the invulnerable period is used by some endurance runners, but I mean it doesn’t make for entertaining gameplay so much as it makes for looped gameplay. Try instead providing a massive health boost after void sling ( like the addition of a full vitality) which applies to team members who are hit by the dash. While still restoring health, and healing defensive targets by up to 60% per dash. One of the ability buttons should actually be a passive energy gain because if we’re going to be honest a health school is only so useful on its own as  high health as diminishing returns. And it should provide a slight boost to guns for the same reason, (it’s also weird to have a melee school but nothing at all for guns) things like reload speed, fire rate, headshot multiplier. Or instead of any of those a headshot combo counter. Which would synergize with have the health and protective abilities long enough to line up head shots. 
 

Edit: I keep forgetting to say this but let the buffs operators give to their warframes to simply apply to operator powered vehicles (warframes, necramechs, archwings) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, (PSN)Tazzilla88 said:

Why is the power strength boost from Madurai only 40%

Not sure where you are getting your information but this is from the wiki:

  • When used at full energy, damage is increased by 400 / 600 / 800 / 1000%.

Void Strike is crazy strong now without having to sit in Void for 10 minutes to charge the multiplier. 

Check the Wiki   next time before giving out wrong information. 

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

Not sure where you are getting your information but this is from the wiki:

  • When used at full energy, damage is increased by 400 / 600 / 800 / 1000%

That's not the Power Strength Boost He/She was Talking about.....

3 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

Check the Wiki   next time before giving out wrong information. 

And please Dial Down the attitude....

2 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

But you do you and grab a pitch fork and march till your hearts content. 

This was uncalled for.... 😐

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hello,

I am a bit late to the party here, but is Madurai Phoenix Spirit simply... gone?  People seem to imply it got fused with Phoenix Talons, but the in-game info seems to contradict that.  Phoenix Spirit used to boost elemental damage.  Phoenix Talons only boost physical damage.  I haven't done the math, but I feel my main build just lost it's edge.  Would it be an option for DE to actually add the previous Phoenix Spirit effects to the new/reworked Phoenix Talons? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...