Focus School System Rework - A Broad Overview

[iPathos]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Raptor6001 said:

void strike only being good for 1 attack then having a 40 second cooldown will mean eidolon shield may no longer be able to be consistently one-shot.

It's not only good for one attack, it's active for 8s and applies to all instances of damage instead of only x separate instances and then it's all gone.
 

The Void Blast change is the one I'm most bothered by at this stage, it seems to be an unnecessarily clunky way to implement a new idea. If it would instead teleport the frame to you and have it perform a melee attack (spam limited by standard attack speed etc) while you remained in operator form, that would be more viable. As many have said as well, Void Dash/Sling is not a reliable enough method to disarm Kuva Guardians etc due to interactions such as with Magus Lockdown. Either that needs fixing or Void Blast should remain in some capacity.

[TheHunter365]

il y a 1 minute, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa a dit :

yeah, sorry, maths ain't my forte... but its still quite a big increase, especially if you want to add it to the other numbers you can reach and the default numbers amps already have, not even getting into warframe weaponry.

I still think people are just over-reacting a bit about it because they lost their funny "I don't wanna play the game" button, and thats coming from a Madurai user...

thats not the main issue, making it duration based and not "shot" based already make it really op for casual gameplay, but when it come to the only activity that benifit from operator damage boost "eidolons", its near pointless, 40sec cooldown, a limb rotation is 17ish sec, wich mean you need 3 people with perfect cooldown management to efficiently break the shield.
For normal warframe gameplay a damage boost is absolutely not needed, especially from focus, raw damage increase or even multiplicative damage increase, i mean you get this from bunch other things like helminth, abilities, you don't need focus for this.

[DryMind]

31 минуту назад, [DE]Megan сказал:

UNAIRU 

VAZARIN

With this new shield and armor related things there is a good question - any changes to Corrosive and Magnetic statuses? They are totally overwhelmed by Unairu.

In the name of the Trinity... With this changes may DE also rework her abilities?

[CyDuck.UA]

Does this mean that there are going to be new mechanics in the quests like The War Within and The Sacrifice since the Void Blast is gonna be removed? In both of these quests you've got to use Void Blast to stun a respective enemy (didn't list them to not spoil the quests).

[CyDuck.UA]

Does this mean that there are going to be new mechanics in the quests like The War Within and The Sacrifice since the Void Blast is gonna be removed? In both of these quests you've got to use Void Blast to stun a respective enemy (didn't list them to not spoil the quests).

[Azu1189]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

yeah, sorry, maths ain't my forte... but its still quite a big increase, especially if you want to add it to the other numbers you can reach and the default numbers amps already have, not even getting into warframe weaponry.

I still think people are just over-reacting a bit about it because they lost their funny "I don't wanna play the game" button, and thats coming from a Madurai user...

The time Void Strike took to charge never made it an "I don't wanna play the game" button. The extra damage output it gains is strong but with how many strong damage options are in the game already it only makes sense to reduce it's cooldown to better accomodate Eidolon hunters.

[ChozenBardoUmbra]

44 minutes ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

I still think the operators should have gotten other improvements before focus improvements. The biggest thing they need is better movement, like increased sprint speed, knockdown recovery and more.

Like I keep saying the operator needs to be good on their own if we are going to use them.

they are supposed to be human void demons, they move similar to what Kahl or Veso move like, so it makes sense.

[Mazifet]

Look how they massacred my void dash.

 

[Starz]

Everything looked good until I got to the 40s cooldown on Void Strike. Does this start once the ability activates or at the end of the 8 seconds? This is a real kick in the face to anyone doing Eidolons with a squad of 2 people. The cooldown being 20-30 seconds and the cooldown starting upon activation would be a nice change.

[TheOlright]

Welp, overall this focus rework looks way better now. I never liked to hunt Eidolons, exactly because to strip shields effectivley, one should sit in void invisibility for awhile. Now I may even try it, but still, 99% sure that I will use zenurik 99% of the times, just because it makes so much compared to other schools. But new dash is still looks slower than the current one

On the side note (since you no longer do "thank you for watching devstream" thread) - everything new looks really refreshing and great overall, except for evolving weapons. RN they look like kitguns 2.0 - where you can change parts whenever you like, I really hope that each weapon will have its unique traits, "built-in arcanes" of a kind

[Dazzul]

Void Sling is no improvement over Void Dash, and I'm still confused of what problem it is trying to solve. It's also sad to see the loss of utility  passives like Zenurik heavy efficiency or Unairu bullet attractor

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

5 minutes ago, Azu1189 said:

The time Void Strike took to charge never made it an "I don't wanna play the game" button. The extra damage output it gains is strong but with how many strong damage options are in the game already it only makes sense to reduce it's cooldown to better accomodate Eidolon hunters.

well yes, but these changes are mostly with the casual playerbase in mind... why should they make one thing completely busted in casual gameplay to accommodate for one group of players?
Sure, the same can be said for the other way around (why make one thing 'unusable' for a small group to accommodate for the wider player base), but at the same time nights on PoE last 50 minutes, is losing your peak efficiency gonna actually hurt too much? Your acting like because the cooldown is a bit too long that section of gameplay is absolutely untouchable now. a 1000% damage increase for 8 seconds is more than enough to destroy a limb or remove shields. Its helping keeping the action continued and not turning it into 4 children standing around in a field.

[--ZeRo--]

Here's a good analogy for anyone wondering why eidolon hunters are upset

Imagine you've been speedrunning super Mario for years, and then someone comes out of nowhere and steals your controller and you have to get a different one with an entirely different layout and buttons. And you can't do the things you used to do with the old controller. That's it.

[TuxedoCatfish]

Also I think the Focus changes might end up being a nerf to Eidolon hunt clear times at the very high end, but if so it's fine because a) the changes to Void Strike and other nodes should lead to less downtime and extremely passive play during hunts, which is an improvement to gameplay and b) Eidolons have already been subject to several massive nerfs to shield EHP and general resilience (in addition to power creep over time in terms of non-amp damage, see for instance Necramechs). At worst, this is just nudging it a little back towards their original baseline, and probably not all the way back or even close.

[iPathos]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

well yes, but these changes are mostly with the casual playerbase in mind... why should they make one thing completely busted in casual gameplay to accommodate for one group of players?
Sure, the same can be said for the other way around, but at the same time nights on PoE last 50 minutes, is losing your peak efficiency gonna actually hurt too much? Your acting like because the cooldown is a bit too long that section of gameplay is absolutely untouchable now. a 1000% damage increase for 8 seconds is more than enough to destroy a limb or remove shields. Its helping keeping the action continued and not turning it into 4 children standing around in a field.

They're not saying it's not enough to get the job done, they're saying that it's drastically longer than necessary on the cooldown side due to limb and shield rotations - even in lower efficiency squads.

[HealingMind]

I generally like the direction that a lot of the general focus-related stuff had, but I'm rather saddened by a lot of the changes. Zenurik and Madurai, 2 schools that were heavily in the meta (though the latter mostly for Eidolons) got buffs that made them even better, and Zenurik is still the ONLY school that gives you any form of energy, while most of the other schools got buffs that are just sort of whatever. I feel like Uniaru got the best of the lot, while Vazarin just became discount Trinity, only without the good of her kit by far: the energy from her 2. Survivability in Warframe is at an all-time high, with more and more frames having survivability baked in, the presence of Gloom, or even Metastasis as a discount Gloom if they don't, Elevate being a lot more easily accessible (and will probably be even MORE so with the Void Strike changes), even being able to slot in life strike on a weapon that spams heavy attacks anyways, so still having a support tree that only heals and provides survivbility is really weak. It's really strange how of all trees, ZENURIK is the tree that buffs ability strength with its ability, when it doesn't need it to be good, and would be great for a support focused tree like this.

[feralknights]

45 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

removal of Void Blast to allow Melee inputs to cause automatic Transference from Operator to Warframe.

To be absolutely fair this is not what we meant when folks asked/requested/begged for Operator melee as far back as the release of TWW.  Void Blast opened a lot of opportunities to play the game differently and allowed us to have an at-hand CC even if we didn't have a 'frame or a weapon that had a specific ability for it-- it was an important piece of emergent gameplay, and now we're gonna have that taken away from us.

I've been doing strictly Operator-only gameplay since TWW as both a challenge and a fun alternative to normal gameplay to keep things spicy and fresh, especially in high level content, and now I'm just not going to be able to do that anymore.

Hell, let us at least just use the Rumblejack without switching.  The animations have at least been rigged for Spoiler Mode's meshes.

[(PSN)xNURSi3x]

So what is happening with gaining focus? This wasn’t discussed! I would like to know if the orbs are still available and how that will work ie sanctuary etc to get focus. Also the rate of focus and is the max amount the same per day

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

On 2022-04-08 at 8:52 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Void Blast to Warframe Melee Transfer

Melee input while using your Operator will now instantly Transfer to your Warframe and perform a Melee attack. 

Oof. Probably the only thing I don't like about the rework is this. Void Blast could've stayed and be expanded with Operator getting the ability keys (a couple of new nodes wouldn't be that bad when the reset is happening and overall costs could be easily adjusted), instead it's getting removed to get nothing worth noting as a replacement.

Void Fling change to make it more combat worthy instead of "bumping it walls" was fine, except in some cases I could already do that by pressing E, now I have to fling, possibly bump against an obstacle, turn around and shoot if I want to disarm a Kuva Guardian (or catch Kuva, which Fling seems far less user friendly than Void Blast), when I all needed to do was press E and shoot.

[--ZeRo--]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa said:

well yes, but these changes are mostly with the casual playerbase in mind... why should they make one thing completely busted in casual gameplay to accommodate for one group of players?
Sure, the same can be said for the other way around (why make one thing 'unusable' for a small group to accommodate for the wider player base), but at the same time nights on PoE last 50 minutes, is losing your peak efficiency gonna actually hurt too much? Your acting like because the cooldown is a bit too long that section of gameplay is absolutely untouchable now. a 1000% damage increase for 8 seconds is more than enough to destroy a limb or remove shields. Its helping keeping the action continued and not turning it into 4 children standing around in a field.

The change hurts the casual hunter too. Someone who doesn't have the ideal amp/Warframe setup is going to be even worse off now. Before you could stack the buff up to oneshot the shields pretty easily, even if you didn't have the best amp. But now, you just have to deal the damage you can in 8s and then wait for a pointless cooldown to go away before you can do good damage again. And what do you mean by "keep the action going" that's exactly what a cooldown doesn't do.

[sitfesz]

There is a solution to not ruin solo eidolon void strike. Make the ability reuseable to cancel the effect and return remaining duration percentage as a cooldown reduction.

What I mean is if you don't cancel the ability, there will be the whole 8 seconds duration using up 100% of the 40 seconds cooldown. Canceling the ability at 4 seconds should only use 50% of the maximum duration and return half of the cooldown, so 20 seconds only.

[Mrezu]

I have an idea how to make it so that the void strike and unairu wisp are as usefull in eidolon hunt as in normal missions.

Make it so that the wisp's and void strike have no cooldown, but cap it, there is a certain number which you dont need to go above when doing eidolon hunts, there is no need for it to scale endlessly i think.

Keep the void mode on void strike, it is used to survive the eidolon's void spike or however it is called, when the eidolon roars, sending out a big wave that deals damage and applies magnetic proc.

Dont apply the change to unairu wisp, where the wisp's fly to allies in affinity range, there is no need to, as for normal missions we already run vacuum, so it will be easily to collect them, and when it comes to eidolon hunts, people dont run vacuum there, instead they leave the wisps for later usage.

I think the other changes seem quite decent, but those two, plus the new void slingshot instead of void dash, might slow a lot the hunts.

Well, we will see about the void slingshot in game, cause it might not be as bad in practice, and there is still archwing to navigate around the plains of eidolon. But i am sure that the changes to void strike and unairu wisp certainly won't be fun for eidolon hunters, if not tweaked.

 

Oh actually there is one more ability which I think won't have much use in gameplay, the second chance, which lets you revive your warframe after getting killed by killing x amount of enemies with your operator. The case in which it would be usefull is maybe high level content, where you can actually die. The problem is, you 1. won't be able to stay alive there with your operator, pretty much at all and 2. won't be able to kill those high level enemies with your amp. Therefore the ability is useless in my opinion.

Maybe if it was like Savegoth where you kill enemies in one shot, or instead of having to kill enemies have to do something diffrent, lets say... hit certain amount of enemies or something, then it maybe would be somewhat okay.

[(NSW)Captain]

So, as far as I can tell, this represents some neat conceptual changes to most focus schools, improves Naramon, Unairu, Zenurik, sidegrades Madurai, and doesn't fix the actual issues with Vazarin at all.

Vazarin is a school made for co-op. This is fine and dandy, but it loses a good chunk of its point during solo play. Bonus affinity range doesn't especially matter if you're solo. By the same token, instant revives are cool but in current Warframe if you need to revive more than once you're carrying newbies. Plus most players will just instant-rez and eat the affinity loss if you're playing normally.

I don't have suggestions for alternate abilities since this is so close to release, but on the whole I think this change will not meaningfully change how people approach focus schools. Zenurik will far and away be the most popular, and Vazarin will have basically no users.

Having said that the rest of the operator changes are pretty neat, can't wait to try.

[Voltage]

14 hours ago, UnOriginalGN said:

40s cooldown on void strike. Mhm. Gonna love how void strike isn't going to even be an option in solos or duos anymore. Just slowly tick the shield with klamora. How exciting innit. If we even want to make void strike a good option for eidos anymore, we would need to either do trios with no person on unairu wisp, or full squads. Low end PCs and old gen consoles will love full squads in eidos innit. 30 FPS my favorite.

People will adapt. At least they didn't remove Eidolons for a new mode like they did to its predecessor. It's a bit dramatic to go on about Void Strike when people did 6x3 pre-Helminth, pre-Eclipse buff, pre-Zenith meta etc. In the absolute worst case scenario, you go from 6x3 down to 5x3 with these changes, but I highly doubt that.

Also, when Shrine of the Eidolon added Tridolon hunts, DE did say this: "Taking down a Teralyst mirrors the tactics of a Trial in terms of teamwork and communication". Given Trials required 4 players to start the mission, DE did intend them to be something of a team effort, so the powercreep over the years being toned down and requiring the re-usage of a full squad of coordination to get the maximum benefit of the mode is healthy for the game as a multiplayer co-op game. 

I like these changes overall as a whole, and I see the bigger picture of a bit more integration with combat.

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

5 minutes ago, iPathos said:

They're not saying it's not enough to get the job done, they're saying that it's drastically longer than necessary on the cooldown side due to limb and shield rotations - even in lower efficiency squads.

once again, its made with the general playerbase in mind, and in normal gameplay your only really gonna need a damage buff that severe every minute or so, if ever. To me it looks like its kinda meant to be the 'last resort' button to try and get you out a bad situation.
And I'm not gonna act like I know anything about Eidolon's and their terminology, I only really did them at launch and whenever they are a challenge in nightwave, but whenever I've at least tried solo the shields don't take incredibly long to remove, and my amp isn't even that good I think (Klamora, Plaga, Phahd). and thats with basically only cloaking when being attacked meaning I rarely get the Void Strike buffs.