Focus School System Rework - A Broad Overview

[Pakaku]

Void Sling sounds like a copy of Wisp's Wil-O-Wisp, which is to say laggy to execute, probably leaves you standing back and having to gauge where it will end from your starting point, and still spamming jump to get it out. If you wanted to void dash just one unit, you never had to mash jump, and every dash unit was instantaenous.

Sounds pretty terrible if that's so. I would rather have something like a wukong cloud, where you just jump-crouch once and keep going until you release crouch, and can aim to change direction mid-dash. Way easier to control, way less jump-mashing, and feels more like dashing than slinging (which sounds like putting your broken arm in a cast and sling, by the way)

[(XBOX)MeteorLink 187]

The void sling sound horrendous but the rest i am kinda looking forward to try.

[(NSW)Cion]

Why the renaming of Void Dash to Void Sling?

Void Dash sounds more cooler.

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

5 minutes ago, --ZeRo-- said:

The change hurts the casual hunter too. Someone who doesn't have the ideal amp/Warframe setup is going to be even worse off now. Before you could stack the buff up to oneshot the shields pretty easily, even if you didn't have the best amp. But now, you just have to deal the damage you can in 8s and then wait for a pointless cooldown to go away before you can do good damage again. And what do you mean by "keep the action going" that's exactly what a cooldown doesn't do.

that's assuming the casual player doing an Eidolon either for fun or for nightwave is running Madurai and know about Void Strike and use it effectively, when most casual players will just be running whatever they like the most. Do you think the Madurai changes will remotely affect someone who uses Vazarin or Naramon for example?
And by 'keep the action going' I mean that it encourages you to not wait around for some fake number to tick up, in normal gameplay your not gonna sit around for Void Strike to come off gameplay but keep the heat going. Take Lavos for example whose gameplay basically revolves around his big 4 cooldown, once its on cooldown it encourages you to keep the pressure on, to continue applying status effects and using his abilities to lower that number to use it again. in Operator terms, that would be to continue attacking said Eidolon to get it into a more beneficial state for when it next goes off cooldown, instead of the current thing when Void Strike isn't active: going invisible for the next 30 seconds or however long.

[TheHunter365]

il y a 1 minute, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa a dit :

once again, its made with the general playerbase in mind, and in normal gameplay your only really gonna need a damage buff that severe every minute or so, if ever. To me it looks like its kinda meant to be the 'last resort' button to try and get you out a bad situation.
And I'm not gonna act like I know anything about Eidolon's and their terminology, I only really did them at launch and whenever they are a challenge in nightwave, but whenever I've at least tried solo the shields don't take incredibly long to remove, and my amp isn't even that good I think (Klamora, Plaga, Phahd). and thats with basically only cloaking when being attacked meaning I rarely get the Void Strike buffs.

wdym, you can't benifit from voidstrike anyway using klamora, void strike is charge based, it gives 8 charges, klamora have base fire rate of 12, you deplete all your charges no matter how high they are in less than 1 sec :(
an experienced player that take the time to read and understand how voidstrike works don't need to sit in plains for several minutes to charge up, even in 6x3 where you look for minimum downtime (and waiting for vs to build up is downtime).

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

I want to see more of these new cosmetics. Having a use for focus after maxing out a school seems like a good step taken forward.

[just-JC]

I have no issue with the changes, and I think it's great that we don't have to worry about energy draining abilities and the pool.

But one MAJOR problem, at least for me, that keeps me from caring about focus schools is how we obtain focus exp/points.

It doesn't matter how much you improve the schools themselves, for a player like me obtaining focus exp is a major, boring and painful process.

I simply do not engage in Eidolons Hunts, matter of fact I dropped the game for one year after the Plains update because of that particular content. Since I don't have the energy or patience to farm eidolon shards the only other option left for me to grind focus exp is through missions and affinity farming.

And that's where it lies the real problem for me. Focus Lens is a cumbersome and counterproductive system. You have to farm multiple lens. Then you have to build a bigger lens. Then you have to build a bigger lens that you can only obtain in one particular bounty from one particular island of content. And then you have to build an even bigger lens, the Lua, that is also locked behind a single mission.

Now, I don't mind farming Lua Lens. And I don't mind buying Greater Lens BP. Eidolons Lens farming I can do without. The Lens farming process isn't the issue, although it could be improved a lot.

What simply doesn't make sense to me is that even after you go through all the trouble of setting up the right Lens for the right Frame/Weapon, it's in the end all for nothing. Because the minute you need to change Focus Schools the Lens that you put in that particular frame/weapon, that was strategically chosen to make the affinity farming route as efficient as possible, needs to be DESTROYED, making all that work and trouble meaningless.

So why should I care about Focus Schools? Or farming Focus Exp? If I don't do mindless Eidolons Hunts all that is left for me is a mechanic that punishes me for my choices and how efficient I want to be while grinding Focus Exp though affinity farming. Not only I have to go through the trouble of building lens; I have to destroy them if I want my Saryn/Equinox/Etc to farm another Focus School. 

 

• So please, take a look at how we obtain Focus Exp. Either give me options to farm resources like Eidolon Shards through different outlets or IMPROVE the Focus Lens system and how we obtain Focus Exp on mission. Everything else is looking great. 

[motorfirebox]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Wolkenritter said:

the cooldown on Void Strike seems excessive.

To get +1000% damage currently, you'd have to suffer a "cooldown" of 80 seconds, and it would only apply to the next 8 attacks.

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

5 minutes ago, TheHunter365 said:

wdym, you can't benifit from voidstrike anyway using klamora, void strike is charge based, it gives 8 charges, klamora have base fire rate of 12, you deplete all your charges no matter how high they are in less than 1 sec :(
an experienced player that take the time to read and understand how voidstrike works don't need to sit in plains for several minutes to charge up, even in 6x3 where you look for minimum downtime (and waiting for vs to build up is downtime).

 

thats the point! I, someone with an amp not built for Void Strike, have no trouble with Eidolon Shields, and only struggle really with Limbs because of a more casual build, so why are you complaining when even I an Eidolon casual would normally take like 30-40 seconds burning down shields at most, which is enough time for the new Void Strike to get off cooldown.
Someone else said it best, people will adapt and at most your gonna drop like not a whole lot, if 6x3's were possible pre-helminth and other buffs like Eclipse and Zenith stuff, then they'll still be possible afterwards. At most you might drop like 1 eidolon but that's probably unlikely I'd say...

[mikakor]

Just now, motorfirebox said:

To get +1000% damage currently, you'd have to suffer a "cooldown" of 80 seconds, and it would only apply to the next 8 attacks.

except that nothing in this game needs that much. this node was only used in ACTUAL gameplay for eidolons. now eidolon hunters can't even use this reliably. you'll probably use it for "one" limb of the eidolon, then it'll be useless. gone. because the cooldown is that stupidly long for no reasons. 

[SephirothWS]

6 minutes ago, just-JC said:

What simply doesn't make sense to me is that even after you go through all the trouble of setting up the right Lens for the right Frame/Weapon, it's in the end all for nothing. Because the minute you need to change Focus Schools the Lens that you put in that particular frame/weapon, that was strategically chosen to make the affinity farming route as efficient as possible, needs to be DESTROYED, making all that work and trouble meaningless.

This is my one and only problem I have with the focus system as well, the fact that lenses are a huge pain in the rear to farm up and collect, only to outright destroy them if you need to swap to a different lens, .. is counterproductive, so I don't bother with switching lenses. What needs to be done is a re-evaluation of how one obtains these focus lenses, or allow us to swap out and NOT DESTROY lenses when we need to.

[N7Arthur]

I feel like for void sling, tap should go the maximum distance, not some short minimum, and you can hold if you want to control the distance, so we can still have our speed while having controllability too.

[Pakaku]

8 minutes ago, just-JC said:

So please, take a look at how we obtain Focus Exp. Either give me options to farm resources like Eidolon Shards through different outlets or IMPROVE the Focus Lens system and how we obtain Focus Exp on mission. Everything else is looking great. 

Just me being cynical, but I'm guessing the radio silence means there are no changes planned for that slog. This is "grindframe", after all...

[Scorpin99]

3 minutes ago, SephirothWS said:

This is my one and only problem I have with the focus system as well, the fact that lenses are a huge pain in the rear to farm up and collect, only to outright destroy them if you need to swap to a different lens, .. is counterproductive, so I don't bother with switching lenses. What needs to be done is a re-evaluation of how one obtains these focus lenses, or allow us to swap out and NOT DESTROY lenses when we need to.

 

11 minutes ago, just-JC said:

I have no issue with the changes, and I think it's great that we don't have to worry about energy draining abilities and the pool.

But one MAJOR problem, at least for me, that keeps me from caring about focus schools is how we obtain focus exp/points.

It doesn't matter how much you improve the schools themselves, for a player like me obtaining focus exp is a major, boring and painful process.

I simply do not engage in Eidolons Hunts, matter of fact I dropped the game for one year after the Plains update because of that particular content. Since I don't have the energy or patience to farm eidolon shards the only other option left for me to grind focus exp is through missions and affinity farming.

And that's where it lies the real problem for me. Focus Lens is a cumbersome and counterproductive system. You have to farm multiple lens. Then you have to build a bigger lens. Then you have to build a bigger lens that you can only obtain in one particular bounty from one particular island of content. And then you have to build an even bigger lens, the Lua, that is also locked behind a single mission.

Now, I don't mind farming Lua Lens. And I don't mind buying Greater Lens BP. Eidolons Lens farming I can do without. The Lens farming process isn't the issue, although it could be improved a lot.

What simply doesn't make sense to me is that even after you go through all the trouble of setting up the right Lens for the right Frame/Weapon, it's in the end all for nothing. Because the minute you need to change Focus Schools the Lens that you put in that particular frame/weapon, that was strategically chosen to make the affinity farming route as efficient as possible, needs to be DESTROYED, making all that work and trouble meaningless.

So why should I care about Focus Schools? Or farming Focus Exp? If I don't do mindless Eidolons Hunts all that is left for me is a mechanic that punishes me for my choices and how efficient I want to be while grinding Focus Exp though affinity farming. Not only I have to go through the trouble of building lens; I have to destroy them if I want my Saryn/Equinox/Etc to farm another Focus School. 

 

• So please, take a look at how we obtain Focus Exp. Either give me options to farm resources like Eidolon Shards through different outlets or IMPROVE the Focus Lens system and how we obtain Focus Exp on mission. Everything else is looking great. 

Both of you should be relieved in that one of the new endless modes gives you 2.5k focus for killing a certain enemy for the school you are currently using, regardless of what lenses you have equipped.

[Ainz-OoaI-Gown]

31 minutes ago, Dazzul said:

Void Sling is no improvement over Void Dash, and I'm still confused of what problem it is trying to solve. It's also sad to see the loss of utility  passives like Zenurik heavy efficiency or Unairu bullet attractor

Very sad to see the heavy efficiency passive disappearing too, I was trying to shift away from the extremely meta power-spike perma x12 melee combo counter and enjoyed playing with fix combo multipliers like x2 or x3. Back to square one I guess.

[SephirothWS]

2 minutes ago, Scorpin99 said:

Both of you should be relieved in that one of the new endless modes gives you 2.5k focus for killing a certain enemy for the school you are currently using, regardless of what lenses you have equipped.

2.5k, do you have any idea how much focus one needs to max out a school? They haven't shown the numbers for unlocking and ranking up the nodes, and I'm sure they're in the 5, 6 or even 7 digit ranges per node. So, in reality, 2.5k is a drop in the bucket.

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

7 minutes ago, mikakor said:

except that nothing in this game needs that much. this node was only used in ACTUAL gameplay for eidolons. now eidolon hunters can't even use this reliably. you'll probably use it for "one" limb of the eidolon, then it'll be useless. gone. because the cooldown is that stupidly long for no reasons. 

yes, and the cooldown is long because its mainly focused on CASUAL gameplay for non-eidolons, to try and tie gameplay together and keep the gameplay flowing smoothly. Hence the change from a void-mode thing to just a single button... in-and-out of operator for the buff and lay the damage on. and in casual gameplay you'll only need that severe a buff, once again, maybe once a minute, if ever.
I've said it before, but if they're focusing on casual gameplay, as they have for most updates, why should they have to change the cooldown of a strong power to accommodate for a small group of players. At worst, you drop like one or 2 Eidolon's, at best you drop nothing or increase efficiency. Either way, you'll adapt, players always will adapt to new things.
God forbid what the Eidolon community will come up with next if they dare nerf Eclipse or something.

[iPathos]

2 minutes ago, Scorpin99 said:

Both of you should be relieved in that one of the new endless modes gives you 2.5k focus for killing a certain enemy for the school you are currently using, regardless of what lenses you have equipped.

It'd be nice if they put Riven Transmuters somewhere in there too, some of us simply don't enjoy doing Eidolons or don't have any need to complete them any more barring that one drop.

[bouffosaure]

il y a 8 minutes, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa a dit :

thats the point! I, someone with an amp not built for Void Strike, have no trouble with Eidolon Shields, and only struggle really with Limbs because of a more casual build, so why are you complaining when even I an Eidolon casual would normally take like 30-40 seconds burning down shields at most, which is enough time for the new Void Strike to get off cooldown.
Someone else said it best, people will adapt and at most your gonna drop like not a whole lot, if 6x3's were possible pre-helminth and other buffs like Eclipse and Zenith stuff, then they'll still be possible afterwards. At most you might drop like 1 eidolon but that's probably unlikely I'd say...

u really have to unterstand that this rework is the worst possible for us, i need only between 0 and 200ms to one shot the shield of eidolon+limb, so yes 30/40 sec for a shield is really slow and we need unairu wisp + great stacks. but i think u can't unterstand.

[Hedrax]

Over all I'm very excited about these changes and there are a lot of positives. I do have a couple concerns.

Unairu Wisp; In eidolon hunting things can get pretty hectic and I know the change to make the Wisp seek out the nearest ally is to help with issues of finding them. But the only reason that is a problem at all is that each Wisp can only be picked up by one player forcing the team to not bring vacuum to make sure every one can get Wisps consistently. So the problem extends from a work around and the current change kind of destroys the work around leaving the initial problem. What would help more is making Wisps a sort of client side thing like energy orbs so every one can get a Wisp from each use of the ability.

Last Gasp; Great in theory, but as happened in the dev stream there are issues with Amp damage jut not being up to the challenge of killing enemies in high level missions so when you hit the wall you are SOL. And it's replacing Basilisk Scales, a huge loss for Operator survivability. So in my opinion a situation ability such as a self revive that falls off and probably can't be used when you need it the most (since if you are getting overwhelmed in your warframe are you really going to have much of a chance as operator?) at the cost of losing a huge amount of passive survivability as operator is a very bad trade.

Other than those two things, love what I see.

[TheHunter365]

il y a 4 minutes, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa a dit :

yes, and the cooldown is long because its mainly focused on CASUAL gameplay for non-eidolons, to try and tie gameplay together and keep the gameplay flowing smoothly. Hence the change from a void-mode thing to just a single button... in-and-out of operator for the buff and lay the damage on. and in casual gameplay you'll only need that severe a buff, once again, maybe once a minute, if ever.
I've said it before, but if they're focusing on casual gameplay, as they have for most updates, why should they have to change the cooldown of a strong power to accommodate for a small group of players. At worst, you drop like one or 2 Eidolon's, at best you drop nothing or increase efficiency. Either way, you'll adapt, players always will adapt to new things.
God forbid what the Eidolon community will come up with next if they dare nerf Eclipse or something.

and this is exactly the issue "the cooldown is long because its mainly focused on CASUAL gameplay for non-eidolons", why taking an ability that its used in something non casual, and just destroy it. The only purpose of voidstrike is eidolon, there is no other type of gameplay in warframe that need this high damage multiplier, and especially from an operator. You can mod weapons, you can't mod amps to do the same thing saddly

 

and yeah its should be possible to still do eidolons efficiently its just much more tedious.
i'm not mad about this change but i really don't like it for one reason, this is just my point of vue, but i see eidolons as the only endgame activity that you can repeat for worthwhile rewards, something where you can speedrun, seek efficiency, it leaves you exited to log in the every day to improve your times. Every other aspect of the game is straight up things you do once, and never touch again wich is sad, there is no real endgame activity, nothing to do everyday when you log in once you completed you affinity grind, your standings etc...

[Xenoxic]

40s cooldown on void strike, please remove that thank u!!
Other focus stuff seems useable so far

[just-JC]

8 minutes ago, SephirothWS said:

This is my one and only problem I have with the focus system as well, the fact that lenses are a huge pain in the rear to farm up and collect, only to outright destroy them if you need to swap to a different lens, .. is counterproductive, so I don't bother with switching lenses. What needs to be done is a re-evaluation of how one obtains these focus lenses, or allow us to swap out and NOT DESTROY lenses when we need to.

Just being able to use the lens that you had previously equipped (for example Eidolon) to improve it with another one (Lua) without actually having to destroy it or build it again would be a massive improvement. Right now we are being punished for equipping Lens from a lesser tier because if you want to eventually improve that frame/weapon to generate more focus exp that fitted Lens is a waste of resource. Or even being able to, for example, Valence Fusion a Lua Lens already fitted with another Focus School without having to farm and build another Lua Lens, that would be great. It's a painful process that leaves you feeling unappreciated for your effort and choices made while equipping/farming Lens. 

[(XBOX)KawaiiAsa]

1 minute ago, TheHunter365 said:

and this is exactly the issue "the cooldown is long because its mainly focused on CASUAL gameplay for non-eidolons", why taking an ability that its used in something non casual, and just destroy it. The only purpose of voidstrike is eidolon, there is no other type of gameplay in warframe that need this high damage multiplier, and especially from an operator. You can mod weapons, you can't mod amps to do the same thing saddly

probably to try and integrate it into more casual gameplay, I'd imagine. At worst a 1000% increase can be used to kill a few enemies and get out of a bad situation, at best it can be used to melt a sister/lich or any other boss of your choosing. Also its not a multiplier thats just for operators, if thats what you mean 'from an operator' since it also applies to warframes and their weaponry.

[TheHunter365]

il y a 4 minutes, (XBOX)KawaiiAsa a dit :

probably to try and integrate it into more casual gameplay, I'd imagine. At worst a 1000% increase can be used to kill a few enemies and get out of a bad situation, at best it can be used to melt a sister/lich or any other boss of your choosing. Also its not a multiplier thats just for operators, if thats what you mean 'from an operator' since it also applies to warframes and their weaponry.

yup i understand this opinion of bringing an ability only used in something to integrate it into more casual gameplay, but its not necessary, even for sisters you just need eclipse, good burst weapon (like tenet detron secondary fire), good modding with anti faction, ms cc and cd, and here you go ^^
Edit to clarify: on the other hand for amps, you have unaru wisp for 100% damage, you have virtuos shadow fro crit chance, volt shield for crit damage, and voidstrike for that infinite damage scaling, no mods.