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Eximus Reborn: Dev Workshop


Marcooose

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On 2022-05-13 at 10:35 AM, _COY_ said:

My idea to do so is this one:
The strength of Overguard and Eximus scales with the MR level of the group.

What ?

MR is suppose to give you Advantages.... Why would I want to be punished for being MR 30 ?

 I'm not like all the Other Try Hards whining about the Game being too easy... I actually like it when Enemies don't exist.... 👀

 

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7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

What ?

MR is suppose to give you Advantages.... Why would I want to be punished for being MR 30 ?

 I'm not like all the Other Try Hards whining about the Game being too easy... I actually like it when Enemies don't exist.... 👀

 

Its no punishment. With MR30 the Eximus stay the same as they are now 
The idea was, to help low level Tenno only 

-c0y

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So you've toned down the number of Eximi in endless missions, but what about the non endless?

solo Mobile Defense, i end up with 8 Eximi + nullifiers (or Eximi nullifier why not) on me on Neptune, operator is on cooldown because i haven't finished the war within, i cant make a dent on the overshield, even though i one shot everything else with Xoris. it's just ridiculous. I cant barely see what's on the screen with all the giant bubbles and the FX everywhere.

Also, Deimos first mission, level 12 or 13 : exterminate : i ended up facing about 5 Eximi, 2 were poisonous 2 energy leech and 1 health leech and there were 3 Toxic Ancients in the mix. Mag with about 200 HP and lots of useless shields. Dont have to tell how it ended up. I went there after completing Jupiter with no trouble btw.


So Ancients and the tall corpus guys seem to have the same purpose than the new eximi, and now there are both in simple missions. Spy on Pluto is a mess too. With all the clutter, i cant even see the name of the Tall Corpus guys to have an idea of their buff/debuff i just die and use the 3 seconds immunity to try and escape. But the ones you dont kill just respawn between you and the next objective, That's very cringy too.
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1 hour ago, LittleFlux said:

did eximus now immune skill damage? baruuk punch wave did't damage them at all. only actual weapon range.

Well it feels abilities are nono, and certain status immunities on top. Like you do heavy attack , or slam  and they dont even budge. Meanwhile if you have status immunity you get lifted in air. 

But yea, need some tweeking on overguard .Like hirudos healing doesnt work while attacking overguard, as if overguard doesnt have hp, but like hit point system.

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Here's the thing about the Eximus rework, visually, and the way their attacks work now is definitely much improved.

Being *immune* to CC is just stupid. It negates a ton of Frames abilities, and can ruin a glass cannon build that could previously hold their own without issue. An easy fix to this would be to make the Eximus units CC resistant, taking less damage / being less impacted, but still having the effect applied at some level.

 

But here's the real problem; the whole idea of making them CC immune was supposed to be an encouragement to use the Operator to remove the overshield with Void damage. However for anyone late game, the Operator takes way longer to do this than using a decent weapon. Why would I want to use say 4 or 5 shots from my Operators weapon (for an arbitrary number) to remove their overshield, then switch back to my Warframe to finish them off, when I can literally kill them outright with the overshield up between 1 and 3 shots with my main weapon? It makes no sense. The rework just pushes people away from using weapons that aren't at the top end of the pool (and if nerfing those weapons is the answer I can see people just walking away because it's just not going to be fun fighting major bullet sponges, Destiny already taught us this).

I don't find the Eximus units a problem to take down (it's only when you get swarmed by them that it becomes a challenge, and this can be enjoyable!), but I do find that it's restricting the type of Frames I want to take into a mission.

The Eximus units need to be made CC *RESISTANT*, and be made more susceptible to Void damage, that will help a lot.

 

And I haven't even touched on how much of a pain they are affecting lower level players who don't have the more powerful weapons, or an Amp yet.

It's a shame as there are some good foundations here, but in trying to address "power creep", this rework actually just pushes people more towards it.

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7 hours ago, (PSN)FluxOmega said:

Being *immune* to CC is just stupid. It negates a ton of Frames abilities, and can ruin a glass cannon build that could previously hold their own without issue. An easy fix to this would be to make the Eximus units CC resistant, taking less damage / being less impacted, but still having the effect applied at some level.

Pointless Change.... This doesn't affect the AoE Meta so they will just Keep Nuking Them... 

He's going to bother with a Less Effective Play Style that was never popular to begin with ?

7 hours ago, (PSN)FluxOmega said:

(it's only when you get swarmed by them that it becomes a challenge, and this can be enjoyable!),

What kind of Masochist are you ? 🤔

7 hours ago, (PSN)FluxOmega said:

The Eximus units need to be made CC *RESISTANT*, and be made more susceptible to Void damage, that will help a lot.

It won't....

You only need to look at the 2021 Usage Stats to see how little it will help....

 

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On 2022-05-19 at 8:28 PM, (PSN)FluxOmega said:

but I do find that it's restricting the type of Frames I want to take into a mission.

The Eximus units need to be made CC *RESISTANT*, and be made more susceptible to Void damage, that will help a lot.

 

And I haven't even touched on how much of a pain they are affecting lower level players who don't have the more powerful weapons, or an Amp yet.

It's a shame as there are some good foundations here, but in trying to address "power creep", this rework actually just pushes people more towards it.

the restriction is self imposed not one imposed by DE.

lower level having problems with eximus is flat out a lie. i tested it on my other account that has not even a companion and has loki when he was a starter and no other frame and not many mods. the earliest you can see eximus is the 5-10 bounty in PoE. i was killing them with an non potato cronus.

Warframe0135.jpg

the people having issues in the mid level range are moving too far ahead of their own gear. when you move too far too fast, thats what happens. a little bit of grinding nightmare for mods or farming vaults for mods goes a long way instead just blasting through star chart for no reason. 

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On 2022-05-19 at 5:28 PM, (PSN)FluxOmega said:

Here's the thing about the Eximus rework, visually, and the way their attacks work now is definitely much improved.

Being *immune* to CC is just stupid. It negates a ton of Frames abilities, and can ruin a glass cannon build that could previously hold their own without issue. An easy fix to this would be to make the Eximus units CC resistant, taking less damage / being less impacted, but still having the effect applied at some level.

 

But here's the real problem; the whole idea of making them CC immune was supposed to be an encouragement to use the Operator to remove the overshield with Void damage. However for anyone late game, the Operator takes way longer to do this than using a decent weapon. Why would I want to use say 4 or 5 shots from my Operators weapon (for an arbitrary number) to remove their overshield, then switch back to my Warframe to finish them off, when I can literally kill them outright with the overshield up between 1 and 3 shots with my main weapon? It makes no sense. The rework just pushes people away from using weapons that aren't at the top end of the pool (and if nerfing those weapons is the answer I can see people just walking away because it's just not going to be fun fighting major bullet sponges, Destiny already taught us this).

I don't find the Eximus units a problem to take down (it's only when you get swarmed by them that it becomes a challenge, and this can be enjoyable!), but I do find that it's restricting the type of Frames I want to take into a mission.

The Eximus units need to be made CC *RESISTANT*, and be made more susceptible to Void damage, that will help a lot.

 

And I haven't even touched on how much of a pain they are affecting lower level players who don't have the more powerful weapons, or an Amp yet.

It's a shame as there are some good foundations here, but in trying to address "power creep", this rework actually just pushes people more towards it.

I'm with many that say the over shields issues is completely and utterly overblown.The issue isn't about frames of choice. The issue is with people who are overly reliant on one or two abilities and are using meta builds they heard about (like "glass cannon" or "dragon key").

Mag, Ember, Saryn, Yareli and Volt usage has not changed for me nor for my friend who mains Mag and Saryn. Yes, you need to think about your load outs more and that's WONDERFUL! Yes, you need to aim for the head more, be more accurate, time your charge-in melee attacks, look at elements that shields hate. All of this is refreshing and more fun while also not be anywhere near as difficult as people claim. Asking for 5-10% more effort from a casual difficulty game is not gonna destroy lives.

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hace 3 horas, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 dijo:

I'm with many that say the over shields issues is completely and utterly overblown.The issue isn't about frames of choice. The issue is with people who are overly reliant on one or two abilities and are using meta builds they heard about (like "glass cannon" or "dragon key").

Mag, Ember, Saryn, Yareli and Volt usage has not changed for me nor for my friend who mains Mag and Saryn. Yes, you need to think about your load outs more and that's WONDERFUL! Yes, you need to aim for the head more, be more accurate, time your charge-in melee attacks, look at elements that shields hate. All of this is refreshing and more fun while also not be anywhere near as difficult as people claim. Asking for 5-10% more effort from a casual difficulty game is not gonna destroy lives.

Now try Limbo lol.

(They weren't that affected because actually, Ember can tank, Saryn has a lot of AoE and good DPS, Mag has a lot of damage if you play camped, and Yareli also tanks. Thing is, these Warframes weren't too affected by the Anti-CC of the Eximus because they have good damage or tank)

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2 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Now try Limbo lol.

(They weren't that affected because actually, Ember can tank, Saryn has a lot of AoE and good DPS, Mag has a lot of damage if you play camped, and Yareli also tanks. Thing is, these Warframes weren't too affected by the Anti-CC of the Eximus because they have good damage or tank)

Limbo can still shoot straight and hit the one or two eximus units though. 

As for the cc frames, that's exactly my point. Name a warframe that can't survive against these eximus units? I mean, Yareli is supposedly ultra weak and squishy, right? Who's left that can't take the hits? Even Ivara has nothing to worry about because they can't locate her and eximus need to ID their targets in order to trigger energy or health traps. So, who's left?
 

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On 2022-05-16 at 6:20 AM, LittleFlux said:

did eximus now immune skill damage? baruuk punch wave did't damage them at all. only actual weapon range.

It seems as if only the actual fists hit eximus units, and not the waves. Then again just slide attack to win lol.

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hace 14 horas, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 dijo:

Limbo can still shoot straight and hit the one or two eximus units though. 

As for the cc frames, that's exactly my point. Name a warframe that can't survive against these eximus units? I mean, Yareli is supposedly ultra weak and squishy, right? Who's left that can't take the hits? Even Ivara has nothing to worry about because they can't locate her and eximus need to ID their targets in order to trigger energy or health traps. So, who's left?
 

Limbo has no way of protecting herself against the Eximus. The enemies' auras go through the Dimensional Rift and the only thing you can do at most is parry their bullets, but even then you have to dodge their auras and it's all chaos. At least try Zariman's quests in Steel Road for a while and you'll see that after a while it's complete chaos playing Limbo there.

(On the other hand, Yareli can tank thanks to Merulina, not exactly the weakest of the Warframes when it comes to resisting damage.)

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25 minutes ago, AJAL8000 said:

Limbo has no way of protecting herself against the Eximus. The enemies' auras go through the Dimensional Rift and the only thing you can do at most is parry their bullets, but even then you have to dodge their auras and it's all chaos. At least try Zariman's quests in Steel Road for a while and you'll see that after a while it's complete chaos playing Limbo there.

(On the other hand, Yareli can tank thanks to Merulina, not exactly the weakest of the Warframes when it comes to resisting damage.)

Yes, it's chaos. That's Warframe! Limbo can dodge, shoot and melee just like every other warframe. Your comfort of just staying in the rift without a care or caution is the weak point, not Limbo. Shut down the rest of the enemies and then focus on the eximus units, exactly as intended.

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Your comfort of just staying in the rift without a care or caution is the weak point, not Limbo.

Maybe I'd stay less in the Rift, if Limbo's kit wasn't built around staying in the rift.

Banish, puts people into the Rift.

Stasis Put peoples who are in the rift, and only in the rift, into stasis and nothing else.

Rift Surge main effects (Besides the Augment) is to put even more people in the rift, with the fact that Unbanish those with Rift Surge doesn't unbanish them and instead puts even more people in the rift.

And Cataclysm, creates a dome that... you guessed it puts people in the rift.

 

Why do people who Play Limbo, who's entire kit involves shoving people in the Rift, also stay in the rift? Who knows.

Next you'll ask why people play who Ember always try to apply heat procs.

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So, after playing with these changes for a couple days I have to say I am highly disappointed. I am not sure if you read comments on your Posts, especially ones this old. And I'm pretty certain you don't take advice from anyone (Many times a huge number of players have asked you not to introduce something into the game yet you have done regardless. RJ/Warframe energy link anyone?) but I shall say my piece regardless...

...The whole update is just awful. Zariman is boring and will be dead once people have gotten what they need from it. I play solo alot, and getting past 8 rounds in Armageddon gets tough and basically pointless. You have the old Rotation system of AABC, instead of like Disruption which is AABC, ABBC, ABCC then all C's (Which all endless should be by the way!) Yet these game modes become increasingly harder than any Disruption.

Once again you have diluted a Drop Table with garbage. And in endgame content where people need that garbage even less. You do know your own game, right?... Arbi for Endo, Index for Credits! Nothing weakens mood to carry on playing more than making zero progress. People beg you for less of a grind, yet you increase it further. I mean even the way to rank this Syndicate is awful. I hate to think what the next update will be. People want a points system so they can at least feel they are making progress, but instead you force even more grind & luck on them.

But, I digress from the topic of this Post, and that is the Eximus. Just what were you thinking!?! The only thing people hated about Eximus was Energy Leechs & Parasitic, yet you rework ALL Eximus to this hot trash. Did you do any play tests? I doubt it. You can't aim down your gun anymore because you can't see when an Energy or Leech is placing those things under your feet. Pray to the game Gods when you cast a slow casting Frame's ability that they don't put one under you cause you can't move. Despite those, to be able to see it with the all the graphics going on around you is a job in itself. And when you do you have little time to react. Honestly, it's a mess of a rework. This isn't even mentioning the unfathomable decision to make them CC immune!!

I believe you will lose alot of players with this update. And I believe you are too stubborn & too proud to admit you perhaps made a big mistake.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Maybe I'd stay less in the Rift, if Limbo's kit wasn't built around staying in the rift.

Banish, puts people into the Rift.

Stasis Put peoples who are in the rift, and only in the rift, into stasis and nothing else.

Rift Surge main effects (Besides the Augment) is to put even more people in the rift, with the fact that Unbanish those with Rift Surge doesn't unbanish them and instead puts even more people in the rift.

And Cataclysm, creates a dome that... you guessed it puts people in the rift.

 

Why do people who Play Limbo, who's entire kit involves shoving people in the Rift, also stay in the rift? Who knows.

Next you'll ask why people play who Ember always try to apply heat procs.

No, I'll make the same statement again and bold COMFORT WITHOUT A CARE OR CAUTION. 

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hace 3 horas, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 dijo:

Yes, it's chaos. That's Warframe! Limbo can dodge, shoot and melee just like every other warframe. Your comfort of just staying in the rift without a care or caution is the weak point, not Limbo. Shut down the rest of the enemies and then focus on the eximus units, exactly as intended.

Bruh, with tanky Warframes like Wukong, Warframe is definitely not chaos .-. that's the problem.

And I'm 10,000 hours into the game obviously I know dodge and all that stuff but with Limbo things get too tedious. Of course you can kill the Eximus inside the Rift but sometimes 3 Eximus or more come together and dodge while you're aware of killing and fulfilling the objectives is all chaos. When I was doing the Zariman missions in Steel Path with Limbo it was all chaos, but when you go with Wukong the game literally becomes easy, and you don't even need to go with Wukong, since we could also put the Warframes there they tank or turn invisible, but Limbo? It is unfairly difficult. Much more so when he doesn't have an easy way to increase his damage to kill Eximus more easily.

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4 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Bruh, with tanky Warframes like Wukong, Warframe is definitely not chaos .-. that's the problem.

And I'm 10,000 hours into the game obviously I know dodge and all that stuff but with Limbo things get too tedious. Of course you can kill the Eximus inside the Rift but sometimes 3 Eximus or more come together and dodge while you're aware of killing and fulfilling the objectives is all chaos. When I was doing the Zariman missions in Steel Path with Limbo it was all chaos, but when you go with Wukong the game literally becomes easy, and you don't even need to go with Wukong, since we could also put the Warframes there they tank or turn invisible, but Limbo? It is unfairly difficult. Much more so when he doesn't have an easy way to increase his damage to kill Eximus more easily.

So increase his damage output by utilizing the full arsenal. SP is out of the norm of the game, so it's our job to make the tanker enemies fold easier. That's the point. Now, with 10,000 hours of "easy play" you now have a challenge to overcome again: making a viable Limbo loadout. Dude, you, of all people, should be overjoyed by that!!

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hace 47 minutos, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 dijo:

So increase his damage output by utilizing the full arsenal. SP is out of the norm of the game, so it's our job to make the tanker enemies fold easier. That's the point. Now, with 10,000 hours of "easy play" you now have a challenge to overcome again: making a viable Limbo loadout. Dude, you, of all people, should be overjoyed by that!!

I don't mean to offend you but, that's a very lame excuse to take the blame off Digital Extremes for the problem Control Warframes are currently having.

On the one hand DE wants more variety, but on the other hand they make Wukong, the most used Warframe in the game, stand out even more because Eximus are now Anti-CC and Wukong doesn't rely on CC at all. Something is wrong there, well, it's pretty obvious to notice.

At this point I don't know what else to answer you, every thing I say you're going to be like "But it's not DE's fault for only balancing a Warframe every 3 years, it's the players' fault!" when almost it is practically confirmed that they do not play their own game.

I'm understanding that maybe you haven't been in the game very long or don't pay much attention to what DE really does, because otherwise you should have noticed several misconceptions regarding the game mechanics that could have been avoided if only they gave him a little more attention to the problem. (Like the current "Void Dash", who even themselves know that what they did had many problems, why didn't they fix those basic problems before putting it in the game?)

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9 hours ago, (PSN)S1ckS1deSold1er- said:

 

I believe you will lose alot of players with this update. And I believe you are too stubborn & too proud to admit you perhaps made a big mistake.

This !!!

This is Exactly what I thought about Railjack and it's Exactly what I think about Eximus Rework....

Ah well.... It's up to them.... It's not like we have a Choice in the matter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

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22 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Maybe I'd stay less in the Rift, if Limbo's kit wasn't built around staying in the rift.

Banish, puts people into the Rift.

Stasis Put peoples who are in the rift, and only in the rift, into stasis and nothing else.

Rift Surge main effects (Besides the Augment) is to put even more people in the rift, with the fact that Unbanish those with Rift Surge doesn't unbanish them and instead puts even more people in the rift.

And Cataclysm, creates a dome that... you guessed it puts people in the rift.

 

Why do people who Play Limbo, who's entire kit involves shoving people in the Rift, also stay in the rift? Who knows.

Next you'll ask why people play who Ember always try to apply heat procs.

So, with all of this talk about Limbo struggling with Eximus units, I decided to try my rarely used Limbo Prime and ran a simulacrum test with 20 level 180 units (mr30 max level), consisting of 16 corrupted units (4 each of crewman, lancer, heavy gunner and bombard), along with four corrupted eximus units, in which the match gave me a guardian crewmen, two blitz heavy gunners and a leech lancer.

First off, that battle was freaking fun!!! I don't use Limbo much so I had to relearn the kit but, dude, he's damn near untouchable!! The eximus units still can't hit him with primary fire and their eximus specials were easily avoidable. What's more, everyone else is still susceptible to stasis so taking out the eximus units is even easier with Limbo. Heck, he even faired better than my Fortress Frost Prime build when I played around with 20 level 180 eximus units, due to his ability to rift through most attacks and flank guardian units easier!

So, my conclusion is the complaints are not only unnecessary, they literally take the fun out of the gameplay! Why the hell would you guys want to do that!?!?

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13 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

I don't mean to offend you but, that's a very lame excuse to take the blame off Digital Extremes for the problem Control Warframes are currently having.

On the one hand DE wants more variety, but on the other hand they make Wukong, the most used Warframe in the game, stand out even more because Eximus are now Anti-CC and Wukong doesn't rely on CC at all. Something is wrong there, well, it's pretty obvious to notice.

At this point I don't know what else to answer you, every thing I say you're going to be like "But it's not DE's fault for only balancing a Warframe every 3 years, it's the players' fault!" when almost it is practically confirmed that they do not play their own game.

I'm understanding that maybe you haven't been in the game very long or don't pay much attention to what DE really does, because otherwise you should have noticed several misconceptions regarding the game mechanics that could have been avoided if only they gave him a little more attention to the problem. (Like the current "Void Dash", who even themselves know that what they did had many problems, why didn't they fix those basic problems before putting it in the game?)

Well, I've been playing since late 2015 so, yes, I've been paying attention and have played for a long time. And, just to be clear, I'm 100% aware, from the beginning, that the frames are ALL overpowered, as the game intended. Normal star chart is trivial and most SP players resort to Wukong because that is the ONLY way they can survive SP, no different than newer players rushing to get Rhino for normal star chart. 

I'm good with that. Let those players play how they like. They are having a great time playing the game with them and, as soon as they reach my 3,500 hour playtime, they most likely would be able to use other frames effectively. 

In no way, shape or form do YOU have to use them, right? You have 10,000 hours in so no warframe should be an issue for you to breeze SP in, right. Your experience hours equal over one entire year of play so your view point is far beyond those players and they are now where you once was: learning and enjoying. DE is not the problem because we all enjoyed playing with OP frames for years. Just because some of you are "tired of the status quo" does not mean that status quo is bad. 

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On 2022-05-10 at 9:57 PM, Lutesque said:

Let me guess....

You have Prowl active for all those Builds.... ? 

 

Does it matter? Why would you not use one of her core abilities most conducive to staying alive on top of strategy changes.

 

As for the Eximus changes, my primary concern at the current time is for those with destructible weakpoints (aka the Nox Eximus) having their helmet be unbreakable until after their Overguard is removed - while their Overguard inherits the higher level of damage reduction that the Nox has before said helmet is broken. Seems like an oversight but for one of the more annoying eximus units, that's a pretty major concern.

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