Eximus Reborn: Dev Workshop

[(PSN)rexis12]

7 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Why the hell would you guys want to do that!?!?

Because you end up putting 5 times more effort than you would need if you were just to pick Ember or even Mirage.

Also.

7 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

simulacrum test

Lmao.

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Because you end up putting 5 times more effort than you would need if you were just to pick Ember or even Mirage.

Also.

Lmao.

 

.....so what. It's a video game. Also, what you see as effort is what other players consider fun.

As for the lmao, yes, I ran a test. I absolutely do  DO NOT include endurance runs in any test because it is your job to figure out how to survive with the tools you have for as long as possible. I'm not gonna waste my time sitting in one stage for hours. That's your fun, not mine and DE already stated SP and endurance runs are not account for when it comes to frame design. 

[(PSN)rexis12]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Also, what you see as effort is what other players consider fun.

Fantastic, now do Limbo over 100 times in generic missions, and you find that fun turns into annoying busywork.

Limbo already needed more effort to do his job, considering how his massive CC needed constant casting and he needed a gear check to make sure he can keep using his CC. With the lack of any damage boost, without the augment, making things worse.

In addition to how this doesn't change that it makes his one survival tool, the rift walk, that much weaker due to the Eximus ignoring the ability.

16 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

As for the lmao, yes, I ran a test

Then you have a absolutely no say in how Limbo or CC Frames can actually fair if all your 'testing' amounted to a controlled test.

Lmao, look at mister "Well it worked in Simulacrum, surely it will work everywhere else!"

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

11 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Fantastic, now do Limbo over 100 times in generic missions, and you find that fun turns into annoying busywork.

Limbo already needed more effort to do his job, considering how his massive CC needed constant casting and he needed a gear check to make sure he can keep using his CC. With the lack of any damage boost, without the augment, making things worse.

In addition to how this doesn't change that it makes his one survival tool, the rift walk, that much weaker due to the Eximus ignoring the ability.

Then you have a absolutely no say in how Limbo or CC Frames can actually fair if all your 'testing' amounted to a controlled test.

Lmao, look at mister "Well it worked in Simulacrum, surely it will work everywhere else!"

A test that pits all enemies in full alert and attack, in an environment with more of the enemies you claim can't be handled well with Limbo, at levels beyond SP none endurance levels....yes, a test. The game mode is easier because you have escape options, team mates, resources and LESS eximus units to fight at a time. The controlled test was significantly more harsh than any game mode outside long endurance which, again, is up to your skill to survive, as it should be. 

More importantly, I took my limited experience with Limbo and simply used the mechanics to my advantage. You are a Limbo main (I assume due to your argument) so surely my limited knowledge of him can't be better. If that's true then this Limbo discussion is, like I said about the over CC frames being weak argument, is very much overblown.

[DionysisReborn]

I see a lot of people talking about how easy the new eximus are, and that might be true for folks in the late game, but they're a huge pain in mid game. I'm just starting to do the levels of missions for unlocking requiem relics and stuff. I'm trying to get my first kuva weapon. I'm not farming arbitrations yet and kitted with galvanized or mods like adaptation. So when I go into these missions and I don't have a much problem with the normal enemies, but suddenly I'm facing an energy leech eximus and an arson eximus under the shield of an arctic eximus, all in one room, that can just stonewall me.

Sure the goal was to create enemies that you "notice" or have to focus on, but in missions where there are waves of enemies coming at you, like the kuva fortress assault missions, as you kill the non-eximus enemies so you can focus on the eximus, the next round of enemies arrive, with more eximus. Suddenly, I'm solo in a room trying to defend an objective against 5 or 6 eximus. What's the old adage, "If everything is an emergency, nothing is an emergency." The only option I have is to be continually dodging, spraying bullets, and praying. I'm trying to play Harrow, and a lot of my survival is the shields I get from condemn. But now I can't CC any of the 6 enemies in here, so I get no shields.

In b4, "This is a multiplayer game. The solution to your problem is to play with randos."

[Petroklos]

1 hour ago, DionysisReborn said:

I see a lot of people talking about how easy the new eximus are, and that might be true for folks in the late game, but they're a huge pain in mid game. I'm just starting to do the levels of missions for unlocking requiem relics and stuff. I'm trying to get my first kuva weapon. I'm not farming arbitrations yet and kitted with galvanized or mods like adaptation. So when I go into these missions and I don't have a much problem with the normal enemies, but suddenly I'm facing an energy leech eximus and an arson eximus under the shield of an arctic eximus, all in one room, that can just stonewall me.

Sure the goal was to create enemies that you "notice" or have to focus on, but in missions where there are waves of enemies coming at you, like the kuva fortress assault missions, as you kill the non-eximus enemies so you can focus on the eximus, the next round of enemies arrive, with more eximus. Suddenly, I'm solo in a room trying to defend an objective against 5 or 6 eximus. What's the old adage, "If everything is an emergency, nothing is an emergency." The only option I have is to be continually dodging, spraying bullets, and praying. I'm trying to play Harrow, and a lot of my survival is the shields I get from condemn. But now I can't CC any of the 6 enemies in here, so I get no shields.

In b4, "This is a multiplayer game. The solution to your problem is to play with randos."

Do you have the Nightmare Mods, Corrupted Mods and Acolyte Mods? How high Rank are your Mods? Could you share the build of your best Weapon?

[DionysisReborn]

1 hour ago, Petroklos said:

Do you have the Nightmare Mods, Corrupted Mods and Acolyte Mods? How high Rank are your Mods? Could you share the build of your best Weapon?

I have all of the warframe Corrupted Mods and half of the weapon ones, a handful of Nightmare mods like Lethal Torrent, Hammer Shot, Drifting Contact, and a couple Acolyte Mods but rarely see those on builds. The mods that are less than 6 ranks are maxed, but some of the larger ones are two from the top.

And I have a number of several forma weapons like Arca Plasmor, Fulmin, Rubico Prime, Atomos, a CO Crit zaw, a Sporelacer kitgun, but you just asked for one, so here's my Ignis Wraith for clearing since I don't have Prime Sure Footed.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-05-25 at 7:09 PM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I decided to try my rarely used Limbo Prime and ran a simulacrum test with 20 level 180 units (mr30 max level), consisting of 16 corrupted units (4 each of crewman, lancer, heavy gunner and bombard), along with four corrupted eximus units, in which the match gave me a guardian crewmen, two blitz heavy gunners and a leech lancer.

1) Simulacrum Test....

2) No Corrupted Ancient....

3) Nothing To Baby Sit

Yeah This Test Was Rigged.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2022-05-25 at 7:09 PM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

So, my conclusion is the complaints are not only unnecessary, they literally take the fun out of the gameplay! Why the hell would you guys want to do that!?!?

Because the game is Nothing like The Simulacrum ? 🤨

Go Baby Sit a Defense Objective and Revive your Pet 50 Times then come back and Tell me About "Fun"... 😐

On 2022-05-25 at 9:02 PM, iPathos said:

Does it matter? Why would you not use one of her core abilities most conducive to staying alive on top of strategy changes.

Because It's Boring 😭 !!!

On 2022-05-26 at 2:18 AM, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Also.

On 2022-05-25 at 7:09 PM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

simulacrum test

Lmao.

I felt exactly the Same Way....

People still the Simulacrum is actually Valid in this Day and Age... LoL... 😝

On 2022-05-26 at 4:18 AM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

....so what. It's a video game. Also, what you see as effort is what other players consider fun.

Hey look... You can have fun however you want and we will do the Same....

Which is where the problem with Overguard Is.... It punishes One Play Style but Leaves others unaffected and based on Last Night's Dev Stream....doesn't seem like that's Changing (like I said before.... DE is Stubborn)....

On 2022-05-26 at 4:18 AM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I'm not gonna waste my time sitting in one stage for hours.

Then what you say about Limbo Counts for Nothing... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2022-05-26 at 4:28 PM, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

A test that pits all enemies in full alert and attack, in an environment with more of the enemies you claim can't be handled well with Limbo, at levels beyond SP none endurance levels....yes, a test.

No it isn't...

The Simulacrum can not Summon Steel Path Enemies no matter what your MR is... But more importantly you didn't Summon a Corrupted Ancient... Like I said before.... Your Test was Rigged....

14 hours ago, DionysisReborn said:

I see a lot of people talking about how easy the new eximus are, and that might be true for folks in the late game, but they're a huge pain in mid game. I'm just starting to do the levels of missions for unlocking requiem relics and stuff. I'm trying to get my first kuva weapon. I'm not farming arbitrations yet and kitted with galvanized or mods like adaptation. So when I go into these missions and I don't have a much problem with the normal enemies, but suddenly I'm facing an energy leech eximus and an arson eximus under the shield of an arctic eximus, all in one room, that can just stonewall me.

Sure the goal was to create enemies that you "notice" or have to focus on, but in missions where there are waves of enemies coming at you, like the kuva fortress assault missions, as you kill the non-eximus enemies so you can focus on the eximus, the next round of enemies arrive, with more eximus. Suddenly, I'm solo in a room trying to defend an objective against 5 or 6 eximus. What's the old adage, "If everything is an emergency, nothing is an emergency." The only option I have is to be continually dodging, spraying bullets, and praying. I'm trying to play Harrow, and a lot of my survival is the shields I get from condemn. But now I can't CC any of the 6 enemies in here, so I get no shields.

In b4, "This is a multiplayer game. The solution to your problem is to play with randos."

So Two Days ago I started yet Another Account and I just Barely Managed to Scrape my way through The Vox Solaris Quest (yet again, DE really needs to do something about this Roadblock).... And so I was Doing Bounties to try and get my Tranq Rifle and Mining Drill....

 

Protecting The Coil Drive (or Anything Else Really) is hard Enough Already but whenever I'm dealing with Other Enemies The Game Spawned an Blitz Eximus Unit Behind My Back and I see The Coil Drive go From Full Shields to 40% Health Left before I can turn around to see what's Going On.... 

Seriously.... Anybody who says Eximus Units are Fine has no Clue What they are Talking About....

Again.... Simulacrum Tests are Easy... There's nothing to Baby Sit There.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I Wana see just how "Easily Avoidable" they are when you have to Revive your Pet 50 Times Over....

13 hours ago, Petroklos said:

Do you have the Nightmare Mods, Corrupted Mods and Acolyte Mods? How high Rank are your Mods? Could you share the build of your best Weapon?

Did it occur to you that maybe he/she was Trying to get those things needed for his/her Build while all this was Happening....

Nobody just has Fully Upgraded Versions of The Best Mods in the Game.... They need to be farmed... In content that was already Designed Backwards before Eximus Rework and Has Since Then only Gotten Even More Backwards because of all the Changes....

 

[Petroklos]

On 2022-05-28 at 2:17 AM, DionysisReborn said:

I have all of the warframe Corrupted Mods and half of the weapon ones, a handful of Nightmare mods like Lethal Torrent, Hammer Shot, Drifting Contact, and a couple Acolyte Mods but rarely see those on builds. The mods that are less than 6 ranks are maxed, but some of the larger ones are two from the top.

And I have a number of several forma weapons like Arca Plasmor, Fulmin, Rubico Prime, Atomos, a CO Crit zaw, a Sporelacer kitgun, but you just asked for one, so here's my Ignis Wraith for clearing since I don't have Prime Sure Footed.

Corrosive Heat, right? Sadly current Overguard is affected by Viral and that's the way to deal with it for most Status Weapons, as it will reduce its eHP by up to -76.5%. After the next Patch hits, Overguard will no longer be affected by Viral, but it will also be halved.

In my tests, your build took 1 min 20 seconds. Replacing Rifle Aptitude with Hammer Shot took 1 min 12 seconds. Also replacing Stormbringer with Cryo Rounds to change from Corrosive to Viral furthermore reduced the time to 38 seconds. And lastly replacing Hammer Shot to Thermite Rounds reduced the the time to 30 seconds. That's a -62.5% TTK.

Also I should note that the Ignis Wraith is really not as good as many make it seem. It's amazing for low level clear, but will harshly fall off as the Levels increase even in the Mid Game, doubly so with the New Eximus whose scaling peaks at Level 50 instead of 75.

As for other Weapons, my Radiation Rubico P will reliably break Overguard in 2 to 3 Shots, same with my Viral Slash Dread using Split Flights, my Viral Slash Nataruk and my VIral Slash 12x Combo Broken War though with its Attack Speed it's much faster than the other guys at dealing with Eximi. These were all tested as non Galvanized builds on Level 120 Eximus.

You could consider dedicating a Weapon Slot to dealing with Eximi. My poorly Modded Catabolyst, looking like this right now deals with Level 120 Eximi with great ease, plus when its bladder-magazine empties out you can yeet it at the Eximus to seal the deal. With more Capacity to fit in better Mods, plus a fitting Secondary Arcane, it's gonna be a beast. But generally, Beams, Shotguns and Sniper Rifles are probably your best bet until you get the Galvanized Mods and some decent Gun Arcanes.

[SuperLuigi1025]

Just ran into my first Deathsquad in Steel Path.

Died with in seconds because there was almost all Life Leeches and a shield one in the mix along a that one that does that fire wave that knocks you back.

Not only did I do barely even a damage to them because of this rework or even had time to react to them when the spawned in front of me.

Also I couldn't even get passed them because they decided to spawn in the way of the path I needed to get through to even go after a capture target.

Which made my only choice to run passed them with a very high chance of dying in seconds.

 

So please tell me how is this fair when you can get slaughtered with in seconds by a Deathsquad in Steel Path?

[Petroklos]

1 hour ago, (NSW)SuperLuigi1025 said:

Just ran into my first Deathsquad in Steel Path.

Died with in seconds because there was almost all Life Leeches and a shield one in the mix along a that one that does that fire wave that knocks you back.

Not only did I do barely even a damage to them because of this rework or even had time to react to them when the spawned in front of me.

Also I couldn't even get passed them because they decided to spawn in the way of the path I needed to get through to even go after a capture target.

Which made my only choice to run passed them with a very high chance of dying in seconds.

 

So please tell me how is this fair when you can get slaughtered with in seconds by a Deathsquad in Steel Path?

An Assassination Squad, which should be a pretty big deal, managing to kill Players sounds as it should be, doubly so in Steel Path. Worst case scenario, you just have to use one of your four to six Revives.

If you don't mind, what was your Loadout? Warframe, Weapons, Builds and intent of each.

[Petroklos]

On 2022-05-28 at 1:36 PM, Lutesque said:

Did it occur to you that maybe he/she was Trying to get those things needed for his/her Build while all this was Happening....

Nobody just has Fully Upgraded Versions of The Best Mods in the Game.... They need to be farmed... In content that was already Designed Backwards before Eximus Rework and Has Since Then only Gotten Even More Backwards because of all the Changes....

The person I was responding to, very specifically stated, "I'm just starting to do the levels of missions for unlocking requiem relics and stuff. I'm trying to get my first kuva weapon. I'm not farming arbitrations yet and kitted with galvanized or mods like adaptation". If they're doing Liches, then they should be able to do the grinds needed for the Acolyte, Corrupted and Nightmare Mods. If they can't do Liches, then they're too early and should loop back to get better Gear and Mods. And that's nothing new.

Also I would not consider these "the Best Mods in the Game", rather I would consider them the basic minimum. No Galvanized, no Primed, no Rivens, no Weapon Arcanes.

Lastly, as I pretty much explained in this followup reply, their build had space to be optimized against Eximus (and in general) to cut the TTK down to one third, while still limited to these Sets of Mods.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2022-05-28 at 3:36 AM, Lutesque said:

) Simulacrum Test....

2) No Corrupted Ancient....

3) Nothing To Baby Sit

Yeah This Test Was Rigged....

1) The same weapons build that quickly wipes a standard level 180 enemy, especially an eximus, would be the same weapons capable of quickly wiping out SP units. 

2) Yes, I had to deal with ancients too. That wasn't the only test I ran. Ancients and guardians are always top of list so I had no issues evading and killing them. That's what you're supposed to do.

3) When all enemies are focused on you then it's actually hard to survive because all attacks are pointed at you, not the objective. Further, eximus units don't destroy the rift, so tell me how a typical wide range cataclysm with stasis still doesn't buy you enough time to kill a few enemies that you can aim easier at (because everyone else is stopped) and whose bullets still can't hit you?

Nah, the only thing that's rigged is you guys, once again, trying to get an easy way to do things...only to usually then complain about being bored because it's too easy. Self inflicting wounds.

[SuperLuigi1025]

8 hours ago, Petroklos said:

An Assassination Squad, which should be a pretty big deal, managing to kill Players sounds as it should be, doubly so in Steel Path. Worst case scenario, you just have to use one of your four to six Revives.

If you don't mind, what was your Loadout? Warframe, Weapons, Builds and intent of each.

Okay let me be more clear.

The build wasn't the problem since it can handle non-deathsquad Eximus in Steel Path since they aren't in a group in 1 spot.

It was the type of Eximus combo they gave me in that deathsquad.

Because of the Guardian Eximus all the other Eximus around them were protected barely taking damage.

Also I was using Nezha Prime with his Warding Halo and it could barely last a second because of the Arson Eximus making that blast of fire that keeps eating Warding Halo up while doing a lot of damage.

Then there is the the Eximus that steals your heath which because the rest of the deathsquad were them killed me the moment Warding Halo was gone and before I could set up anther Warding Halo.

 

No amount of of load out would have helped me there because there was nothing I could do against that combo.

[Petroklos]

2 hours ago, (NSW)SuperLuigi1025 said:

Okay let me be more clear.

The build wasn't the problem since it can handle non-deathsquad Eximus in Steel Path since they aren't in a group in 1 spot.

It was the type of Eximus combo they gave me in that deathsquad.

Because of the Guardian Eximus all the other Eximus around them were protected barely taking damage.

Also I was using Nezha Prime with his Warding Halo and it could barely last a second because of the Arson Eximus making that blast of fire that keeps eating Warding Halo up while doing a lot of damage.

Then there is the the Eximus that steals your heath which because the rest of the deathsquad were them killed me the moment Warding Halo was gone and before I could set up anther Warding Halo.

 

No amount of of load out would have helped me there because there was nothing I could do against that combo.

Well, the answer to that problem is to just move around, a lot, but sometimes you're just in a tight spot and you gotta take that L. Also I see you're a Switch Player, and personally I just can't move or dodge to even save my irl life while playing on my Switch Alt, so if Rolling on Reaction is hard for you, I can relate.

The strat in your situation would've been to gain some distance, take care of the Guardian Eximus and then start dealing with the rest of them while constantly moving to avoid most of their Attacks and Rolling through the Heat one. Even if you Halo breaks, you've got enough of a window of Invulnerability to set up the next one, assuming that you have the Energy to do so. Also don't forget your Chakram, the Damage Vulnerability it puts on Enemies will help you absolutely shred through the Eximus.

I'm not going to say that the new Assassination Squads aren't hard to deal with if you're under limiting circumstances, but I trully believe that that's how they should be.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

57 minutes ago, Petroklos said:

Well, the answer to that problem is to just move around, a lot, but sometimes you're just in a tight spot and you gotta take that L. Also I see you're a Switch Player, and personally I just can't move or dodge to even save my irl life while playing on my Switch Alt, so if Rolling on Reaction is hard for you, I can relate.

The strat in your situation would've been to gain some distance, take care of the Guardian Eximus and then start dealing with the rest of them while constantly moving to avoid most of their Attacks and Rolling through the Heat one. Even if you Halo breaks, you've got enough of a window of Invulnerability to set up the next one, assuming that you have the Energy to do so. Also don't forget your Chakram, the Damage Vulnerability it puts on Enemies will help you absolutely shred through the Eximus.

I'm not going to say that the new Assassination Squads aren't hard to deal with if you're under limiting circumstances, but I trully believe that that's how they should be.

Agreed. I got hit with an assignation squad and that was a pretty crazy battle with my unprepared Ember Prime. I LOVED IT!! Those eximus units demand more respect now and forces you to regroup sometimes. Their design is just incredibly good for gameplay IMO and, first the first time since SP rolled out, I had to rethink my focus school, companions and element combos for my loadouts. 

This is the refresher we needed! To bad it's about to get nerfed.  

[DionysisReborn]

While I appreciate the help that @Petroklos provided, and I really do, I made the recommended changes and saw improvement, I just don't think the discussion happening with Pablo and on the devstream are being had with an understanding of some of the crappier parts. When Pablo says that "CC works on everything else, you just need to focus on the eximus unit", that sounds like he's talking one or two in a flexible situation that allows you to get some distance or choose how to engage it. It doesn't sound like having to defend a terminal solo in a dead end room against 6 eximus including an arson that can hit the whole room with their burst. Over half the floor is life or energy leach spots. There's an arctic shield over two of them, and I have to get over all of them to get out the door to avoid the arson blast because it still hits you if you are below or above it. If it was just one or two, I'd be tempted to agree with Pablo on the devstream. This isn't a death/assassination squad. This is what naturally spawned in.

And the whole "CC works on everything else, so you can focus on the eximus" doesn't apply to Revenant. I've had an eximus gunner that spawned in behind me peel all my charges of mesmer skin off in under a second, and now everything in the room can hit me for full damage, I've lost my status immunity, and now it isn't JUST the eximus that isn't getting CC'ed. Everything  is hitting me now, and revenant isn't built for that kind of tanking. And CC immunity is one thing, but if part of a survival ability is CC, but part is something else, like Condemn that gives you shields back for every enemy hit should still give you shields for hitting an eximus unit. As I mentioned before, I've been in fights where the only people in the room were me and 5 eximus, so there was nothing for me to hit to get shields to try to survive.

If these things are supposed to make you notice them, that's fine. Make them feel more special. Give me one or two at a time that I have to play smart with. If you throw 6 of them at me at a time the only way to win is to have a big end game gun with big end game AoE damage and nuke them. At that point, sure they aren't a problem anymore.

Or if they want to throw 6 eximus death squads at us, fine. Do that. But make it rare enough that it feels special and scary and not like it just won't be worth my time to try and crack this requiem relic.

The frustrating part here is that I am more scared of the random eximus units in the level than I am of the lich/sister. It shouldn't feel that way.

[Zilotz]

So let's look at steel path here and today:

I do have Arcane Nullifier maxed(so all magnetic procs should not block my screen and should not steal my energy).

But still fighting against infested i fined my energy suddenlt dropping to zero for no reason.

Wait, there IS a reason - magnetic status is BROKEN right now, it has a guarantee to steal energy no matter if you are affected by it or not(Arcane Nullifier, any status immunity skill are useless).

 

[Lutesque]

13 hours ago, Zilotz said:

But still fighting against infested i fined my energy suddenlt dropping to zero for no reason.

Here's your Reason....

 

[master_of_destiny]

So, I'd ask if DE did any testing to verify this...and then I'd stop and ask if they did any testing that included players that hadn't already sunk 100+ hours into the game at minimum.

 

Let me be blunt, DE got what they wanted...but I don't think the cursed monkey paw they made that wish on explained everything to them.  As with their changes to the operator schools, the ancients being tuned to curb stomp unprepared players was...badly executed.  Namely, the original toxic aura could be a one hit on virtually anything that wasn't a tank frame.

 

The rework is better.  It introduces a gigantic middle finger to Limbo...but otherwise makes eximus a challenge instead of a brick wall.  

 

To those who want to argue, stop using the simulacrum.  Strip off the Primary, Secondary, and rare arcanes.  You are now a relatively normal player at the middle end of the game.  Now, try a Steel Path survival on Mercury with the infested.  Last 10 minutes, without any of the focus school power shenanigans.  It's not the same as setting up a dozen proc'd arcanes, and waltzing through enemies with no AI.  I know it may be hard to comprehend, but if the first experience somebody gets with a new enemy, in a power fantasy game, is emptying a clip of ammo into them and their health bar literally hasn't gone down it is a failure.  DE...clearly walked into this with the desire to cause more player deaths.  Not to add challenge, but to increase the perceived difficulty by killing you more.

 

 

Oh, but the retort is that if you invest a silly amount of focus into one school you can self-revive Inaros style.  Yeah.  And how many people actually put forward the crazy effort to earn that?  I say this as somebody with all of the stuff unlocked, all of the cosmetics, and a frighteningly large number of shards of all flavors left.  As the 1% of players with a time investment, I think DE dropped the ball here on understanding what to do.  Their rework is better, but it unfairly gives Limbo a slap...and out of all frames the only real use for Limbo anymore is as a wide range treasure bomber...which is great only because the new missions give 0 credit unless you spend the 20+ minutes required to find all 11 plumes....of joy.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2022-06-12 at 9:48 PM, master_of_destiny said:

To those who want to argue, stop using the simulacrum.  Strip off the Primary, Secondary, and rare arcanes.  You are now a relatively normal player at the middle end of the game.  Now, try a Steel Path survival on Mercury with the infested.  Last 10 minutes, without any of the focus school power shenanigans.  It's not the same as setting up a dozen proc'd arcanes, and waltzing through enemies with no AI.  I know it may be hard to comprehend, but if the first experience somebody gets with a new enemy, in a power fantasy game, is emptying a clip of ammo into them and their health bar literally hasn't gone down it is a failure.  DE...clearly walked into this with the desire to cause more player deaths.  Not to add challenge, but to increase the perceived difficulty by killing you more.

Two major issues here:

1) If any unprepared, I'll equiped player decides to enter SP and gets wrecked, then that's what is supposed to happen. It's absolutely NO different than any other game where a player enters a level they are not prepared for. That's how the learning, developing and mastering process starts.

2) If, in a power fantasy game, you enter a SPECIALLY MODIFIED, HARD GAME MODE and empty a clip into an ADVANCED LEVELED enemy and their health bar doesn't go down, then it is a failure on the player for being unprepared for the mission. For the power fantasy to work, players should have the power giving mods AND know how to use them. Quit giving players a pass as if they're children. Did they mod properly for for Corpus units? How should they mod for Grineer? For Infested? If any player decides to enter SP then they damn well better know these things.

[master_of_destiny]

6 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Two major issues here:

1) If any unprepared, I'll equiped player decides to enter SP and gets wrecked, then that's what is supposed to happen. It's absolutely NO different than any other game where a player enters a level they are not prepared for. That's how the learning, developing and mastering process starts.

2) If, in a power fantasy game, you enter a SPECIALLY MODIFIED, HARD GAME MODE and empty a clip into an ADVANCED LEVELED enemy and their health bar doesn't go down, then it is a failure on the player for being unprepared for the mission. For the power fantasy to work, players should have the power giving mods AND know how to use them. Quit giving players a pass as if they're children. Did they mod properly for for Corpus units? How should they mod for Grineer? For Infested? If any player decides to enter SP then they damn well better know these things.

I'm going to walk past the butchery of words...so if what I respond to is somehow not understood please link that to not understanding some of this alphabetic assault.

In less obtuse terms...it's difficult to respond to you when you can't form a complete sentence.

 

Let me now slow this down for you.  I can get to the steel path by simply beating the star chart.  That's pretty easy...as level 40 is basically the worst you get to.  Note then that the following content path is to either A) continue to the new stuff or B) grind out mastery rank and all of the content you didn't get because it's literally not sign posted.  This means that I could start the Steel Path, and immediately get curb stomped because it's 50+ levels higher and with modifiers.  

 

Cool, your retort to this is "get good scrub."  Ummm, that's a  stupid response.  It's stupid because this is not dark souls.  It is not a game that's set about rules that is follows.  It's not even a game that can consistently follow its own rules...because invincibility and other things happen without regard for any established rules.  It does all of these things to increase grind times...when literally up to the point of Steel Path you can beat the game with a freaking Stug.  The video proof there is not mine.  Search out youtube.

 

So...what was my point that you seem to not understand?  Well...Steel Path is not "Hard Mode."  It's not even really balanced mode.  It's a half-measure response to DE being pissed that people took their content, demonstrated it in the simulacrum, and they perceived that people thought that was all the game could offer.  Instead of say balancing out the power fantasy, they installed a new grind wall into the game, and gave us Arcanes, Arcanes, a huge focus school grind, and more arcanes so that the power fantasy worked...and then turned around and were angry that whenever the grind wall they installed provided enough power to curb stomp regular enemies...so they decided to make tanky as all get out eximus units.  This is acceptable for players that are well kitted...but when you've got a burston, and you're against a level 20 eximus guardian, it's basically a screw-you to players.  That's a fantastic way to have your fantasy about being a space ninja die...because something that requires 4+ clips of ammo to take down makes this game not a power fantasy....but another bullet sponge looter-shooter grind.   

How is The Division 2 doing by the way?  What about Battlefield's most recent offering?   Oh....they're both circling the toilet of irrelevance, with players checking out due to not wanting to grind for 20+ hours to get a random +4 loot drop to replace their current +3...that has a 100th the chance of dropping.  Is that really relevant here....?

 

 

You know though, the most interesting bit of this is that you are so slow to the party that it's funny.  You are demonstrably wrong, because since this post DE has already decided to nerf them, implemented the nerf, and it's collectively been forgotten about.  Maybe instead of resurrecting a dead thread, and deciding to dredge up a comment that was proven right by the people who made the game, and deciding to tell me "get good" you can spend that effort doing something more reasonable.  Is that an option?  I mean, at this point you should be trolling back through the railjack 1.0 threads and telling people they're wrong for saying it was unreasonable to ask for a pick-up radius larger than a basketball for the drops in literally millions of virtual cubic meters of space that the maps covered.  

[vixenpixel]

I think the change on eximus is pretty cool. I have three thoughts on it though. Riven sliver drop rate should increase alittle. If you dont have a resource chance booster on the chance you are lucky to get one drop from an hour steel path grind. Maybe boost drop rate to better reflect the added stuff in iron wake shop would be a good idea. Im talking 1% higher maybe. 

Im not a fan of the 90% damage resistance aura on that one eximus unit. Id rather have it do damage. Bulletsponge isnt exactly riveting gameplay imo. 

Lastly, the complete cc immunity seems a tad overthetop. It's not unplayable but quite honestly, cc was never needed more than with the new eximus units. Perhaps add cc resistance but still give abilities a stagger effect on eximus would balance the playingfield a bit?

 

My only issue with the eximus units is the complete immunity to cc when they have overshield. I think the cool solution to the issue would be to make it so that cc abilities cause a stagger on the eximus instead, thus buying the player a couple of seconds to focus-fire on them. This would be in line with the goals of the update, I think. Also, this could encourage teamwork, having one player in a group focused on quick-cast cc abilities to "stunlock" an eximus unit. Whereas if you play solo, you arn't really going to have enough time to smatter the enemy with damage in the window created nor, perhaps the energy to do so. I think, to balance it, you would want to make it so that continuous cc abilities can't refresh the stagger-stunlock. Like vauban's 4 isn't going to keep staggering the enemies. Only the initial proc of it would affect the unit when they enter the vortex radius. But recasts -would- stagger-stunlock enemies since this would be a steep drain on energy and require some sortof coordination in a group. Perhaps a trinity refilling energy or dispensary would be encouraged. 

I really like the idea of making eximus units special and more powerful, I just think that the implementation of the cc immunity is, while in line with what I want from the game, a little bit overthetop. Perhaps even a little bit sloppy in it's implementation in how it ignores the abilities of the warframes. It goes a bit against the idea of playing a warframe who is supposed to be like this absolute weapon of destruction. Imagine for one second styanax in that anime short running into a couple of steel path eximus units on the way to his fight with the bad guy monster... He would never make it there in time and when he does, he is barely standing.

 

On the issue of survivability, I don't see the problem really. The game is still not -hard-. In fact, even after the update I was farming zariman steel path for arcanes til level 400-500 with a well built frame. Even my friend who always runs inaros because he doesn't want his pet to ever go down (because reviving it every second is such a drag) was starting to die at that point and while my warcry-tenet grigori heavy attack efficiency trinity tank build was still one-shotting or two-shotting everything including eximus units, I started to struggle too at that point. Me, on the other hand was using a vulpaphyla, I should mention. Anyway, I wasn't expecting to hit level 9999. I just wanted to get all the arcanes and running the bounty for quills ten thousand times for standing was getting obnoxious. 

My point is that it's not that hard if you know what you are doing and if you put the time and effort into preparing for it. If I made a new account, I would struggle but knowing what I know and need, I could probably prepare for it in a week or two. I think one of the issues is simply that people don't know what they can or could be doing. I have friends at legendary 2 who goes down a couple of times per mission in steel path. It's absolutely crazy. I tell them: "Brief respite, shield gating. Rolling guard. Stop dying please." Then I look at their loadouts and notice that they pressed randomize and are using mk1 unlevelled weapons they probably put formas on just before the mission... Just to up the stakes a bit.

At this point, I have builds that work for everything or specializes in some content. One of my favourite builds is the Saryn big D loadout. 276% ability strength, corrosive buff on her 1 (venom dose?), built her tanky with arcane grace (her base stats are fairly high), 3 umbral mods. She doesn't need efficiency or range so everything goes into duration and strength. It's a very selfish build. Oh, did I mention her 4 is now roar. 82% double dipping damage. And she uses the phenmor. In steel path disruption she stays far from the bombers so they don't nullify her buffs. They die in a second of that buffed incarnon spray. 50% of the damage is +2000% and since you dont build crit on it, every mod slot carries a big damage punch. Melee is probably best to use glaive for the aoe destruction. The weapon's slash procs on heavy attack destroys steel path grineer with one throw if you give it a second to tick. If you need to be tanky, cast her two (molt). Drop into void form, vazarin void sling to heal to full and 5 seconds of immunity. Plus the toxic lash buff makes corpus enemies extremely easy as well. 

Or you could play Zephyr. Her 3 is very op. Airburst rounds + sporelacer + cascadia overcharge is alot of fun in steel path. Just remember rolling guard for the moment when turbulence drops. 

But even if you don't have all this stuff, if you know the ins and outs of the game or researched where to pick up some easy but essential mods, you wouldn't struggle as much. Just remember, not all frames are cut out for all the content. I play limbo only for cache finding. Max range and max map vision. I play frost for mobile defense. Sometimes range-volt since his 4 stuns globally and the 2 makes quick travel. To me, planning for the missions and picking the right frame is alot of the fun. Sortie spy and rescue = max duration wukong with perspicacity. I never play wukong otherwise. I think he is overused, even with the bramma 1 thing devstream 163 announced a nerf for. I much more enjoy stacking equinox 4 for a big nuke (although not very effective against grineer).

Point is, if you are a "limbo main" or even a "main anything" you are doing it wrong. Or at the very least, you are missing out while struggling in hardcore mode.

[Hantu369]

Okay, I have no idea if this is the right place for this, but DE, please look over the Mastery Rank tests. These Eximus updates make some of them nearly impossible, namely how they're immune to cc. I just qualified for the MR 28 test, and though I've been practicing it's incredibly challenging. Which, to be fair, is to be expected. It's the MR 28 test. It should be a challenge. But this feels excessive. The enemies were already invulnerable, they didn't need overguard on top of it. I've seen a few other players bringing this same issue up: post 1, post 2. While I have mostly noticed the change with this test, I'm sure these changes affect other tests as well. It's so frustrating to have to rely on luck for what should be a skill test.

[(NSW)But_A_Helgi]

17 hours ago, Hantu369 said:

Okay, I have no idea if this is the right place for this, but DE, please look over the Mastery Rank tests. These Eximus updates make some of them nearly impossible, namely how they're immune to cc. I just qualified for the MR 28 test, and though I've been practicing it's incredibly challenging. Which, to be fair, is to be expected. It's the MR 28 test. It should be a challenge. But this feels excessive. The enemies were already invulnerable, they didn't need overguard on top of it. I've seen a few other players bringing this same issue up: post 1, post 2. While I have mostly noticed the change with this test, I'm sure these changes affect other tests as well. It's so frustrating to have to rely on luck for what should be a skill test.

Seconded, that CC immunity needs to be toned down in general.