Angels of the Zariman: Hotfix 31.5.3

[Lime-Prime]

I like the new content, weapons and Warframe. 

Good job on that. I even like some of the new missions. The Eximus changes are certainly interesting too.

 

It is, however, unbelievable to me that you would implement changes that CONSIDERABLY and NEEDLESSLY slow down the pace of the game. Where did you get the idea to change the operator dash to  the "operator sling?"? Has there ever been an instance where the feedback was "Gee, we sure wish the pace was slower. Especially the operator dash. Oh and, cooldowns would be nice.". I cannot imagine that this is based on community feedback, nor can I imagine that it is based on your own experience playing the game. Because if you were playing the game, you would know that the most important edge that Warframe has over other similar games is the FAST PACED AND FLUENT MOVEMENT AND COMBAT.

The new operator dash feels like the alpha version of the old one, its slow and clunky and weird. It literally bothers me to use it. It sticks out like some broken laggy ability in an otherwise smooth game. The cooldowns are also a font size 76 question mark. Why?

I do not know where you are getting your feedback from, but whoever is telling you to slow the game down is either hardstuck MR1 or does not play the game enough to be qualified for feedback.

 

I guess I can live with the cooldowns but the dash... It's frankly terrible.

[Ymir_Jager]

if you increased the probability of gyre's blueprint and parts dropping. then what is the new drop rate chance because I have looked at its supposed drop rate on the wiki site for the game and it shows up as a 0% drop rate with a -982546382127687174831 probability for a mission/ bounty to drop it. I'm really upset for that fact I'm wondering why it says that if you increased the drop rate chance because if that's the actual chance then the players  that play the game without spending a dime have next to no chance of ever getting gyre to drop? Please respond I'm generally curious about this fact.

[emmyemi]

41 minutes ago, Ymir_Jager said:

if you increased the probability of gyre's blueprint and parts dropping. then what is the new drop rate chance because I have looked at its supposed drop rate on the wiki site for the game and it shows up as a 0% drop rate with a -982546382127687174831 probability for a mission/ bounty to drop it. I'm really upset for that fact I'm wondering why it says that if you increased the drop rate chance because if that's the actual chance then the players  that play the game without spending a dime have next to no chance of ever getting gyre to drop? Please respond I'm generally curious about this fact.

Drop rates for Gyre were increased, I was able to farm for all her parts within a couple hours after the hotfix.

[Meladoni]

What can I say ... I love this new Void Dash. With old one I have always problem with "where he dash?! for the lowe of...". And this one is clear and transparent. Thank you!
New schools are also good. Now, I dont need to dash everywhere to activate something. Nice :)

But! Bugs...
I lost one day of grinding of weapon parts, because I did not know about problem with "only host get rewards". That pisssed me of.
But today, I was almost furious. Why? I get some parts bp from mission and when we evac ... All Parts Was Gone. Not in a mission summary, not in the foundry. They wanish.
Please. Fix this.

[Do_High_Go]

9 minutes ago, Meladoni said:

What can I say ... I love this new Void Dash. With old one I have always problem with "where he dash?! for the lowe of...". And this one is clear and transparent. Thank you!
New schools are also good. Now, I dont need to dash everywhere to activate something. Nice :)

But! Bugs...
I lost one day of grinding of weapon parts, because I did not know about problem with "only host get rewards". That pisssed me of.
But today, I was almost furious. Why? I get some parts bp from mission and when we evac ... All Parts Was Gone. Not in a mission summary, not in the foundry. They wanish.
Please. Fix this.

So let's see if I understand you - you like the Void Sling because you did not know how to use the Void Dash or were bad at it. That seems to be about in line with all of the other Void Sling supporters - people who didn't know how to pilot the Dash.

I am not judging you for not investing time to learn to operate the Void Dash, but.... if you could not use or realize it's full potential you are simply not eligible to compare it with the Void Sling, it is like me comparing a motorcycle and a bicycle when i have barely ridden a motorcycle and i sucked at it and saying bicycle is better and easier to control - in vacuum it is correct, but relatively a motorcycle is faster.

The Sling, is mechanically slower and mono directional, so it creates that illusion of control, but it is only that, an illusion. Why? Void Dash let you dash backwards and sideways too, you did not need to look where you go and as long as you have some spatial awareness (which is not much to be asked), you could do so much more once you learn the length of the dash, since it did not vary that is something one could master in a single day of use (if you do not touch the focus nodes that change the length).

Oh and the Bugs? Do not be surprised, they are here to waste your time for literal nothing so you need to spend that time again, basically doubling the playtime in statistics so DE looks better in front of investors. I was an optimist before, then i became a realist, now I am a hardcore pessimist regarding DE's ways of handling the game's future. If they continue like that i can see the articles of the future being "DE, the company that was connected to their players, but then decided to go the Ubisoft and Activision way" or "How DE's need to look good statistically killed Warframe".

[muziqaz]

Sorry, there was a problem reacting to this content. 

 

What's next? Sorry, there was a problem reporting all the bugs?

[Alpheus]

1 hour ago, Ymir_Jager said:

if you increased the probability of gyre's blueprint and parts dropping. then what is the new drop rate chance because I have looked at its supposed drop rate on the wiki site for the game and it shows up as a 0% drop rate with a -982546382127687174831 probability for a mission/ bounty to drop it. I'm really upset for that fact I'm wondering why it says that if you increased the drop rate chance because if that's the actual chance then the players  that play the game without spending a dime have next to no chance of ever getting gyre to drop? Please respond I'm generally curious about this fact.

The "982546382127687174831" is probably a product of the math behind the cells of the table freaking out over an input of 0 into the calculator. The Zariman bounties aren't in the official drop table documentation yet, only the starchart missions.

[Meladoni]

52 minutes ago, Do_High_Go said:

So let's see if I understand you - you like the Void Sling because you did not know how to use the Void Dash or were bad at it. That seems to be about in line with all of the other Void Sling supporters - people who didn't know how to pilot the Dash.

So, let's see if I understand you - You do not like my personal experience and preferencesa about Void Sling, and then, you use your personal bias to fit this in to your narrow worldview, you create a strawman argumentation around it, and be happy about it... how low :)

Hm... Let me try doing the same;
You dislike Void Sling, because your lack any ability to learn or adapt to change, or you have hissy fit because you are bad at it. That seems to be about in line with all of the other Void Dash supporters - people who lack learning capacity and calm demeanour.
You see? It's easy to make strawman. Learn to ask questions and accept other experience :)

[Trace-IV]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb Meladoni:

Hm... Let me try doing the same;
You dislike Void Sling, because your lack any ability to learn or adapt to change, or you have hissy fit because you are bad at it. That seems to be about in line with all of the other Void Dash supporters - people who lack learning capacity and calm demeanour.

well buddy sorry, as much as i love this "i gonna use your way against you" you are in the wrong, he just told the truth, the old players put a lot of work into the practice, and the dash were WAY more mobile, he even gave some examples like all direction dash without looking in the direction, speed etc.

 

actually if you mastered the Dash this sling thing feels simply as if u had a pair of iron weights on your ankle. try to make his statement the enemy as much as you want. its simply the truth^^ i like the way they tried to individulize each tree though, it was a step into the right direction. but destroying the operators whole mobility to 35% of his former speed is just horrible to experienced players. just the same as Izhal's nightmare back in the days (i dont know how long you play already but i doubt that u are very advanced in the game progress)

[Rigtis]

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[Rigtis]

hace 7 horas, master_of_destiny dijo:

I would ask if you know the definition of words...but I don't think that is necessary.  You seem adequately equipped, and then fundamentally decide to ignore the definition.

This sound like you are triggered, tone it down.

hace 7 horas, master_of_destiny dijo:

Let me start with "elucidate."  In context, it means to explain.  You'll note I started with an item that appeared on a drop table.  As such, it was impossible to generate a conspiracy about.  If the drop chance is x, then the only potential conspiracy was that DE was lying when the drop table was constructed either maliciously or due to incompetence.  You'll note that this is a possibility, as demonstrated by the recent hotfix that "fixed the drop rates" of items.  Namely Gyre parts being a 2% drop rate rather than the intended "uncommon" value.  That was a conspiracy the community had, based upon actual drops, that ceased being a conspiracy when DE confirmed it and fixed it.

Try to tell that to all those who are still running like 100 bounties a day without getting a single part. No matter what they say, the drop table is still bugged and seems to be randomizing between 25% and 2%. for some reason.

hace 7 horas, master_of_destiny dijo:

Likewise, a conspiracy requires that the stated goals and objectives differ from reality.  DE has...mostly...not had this issue.  Please note the obvious logical step here, that the stated goals may not be what I personally consider reasonable or good.  That should be obvious...but people often mistake the intention of support, with the intention of agreement that word mean what they should.  For the record, it is my belief that with every successive generation of warframe is a test in understanding exactly how much grind will be tolerable, with the intent to be at about 110% of what would be "fun" for most.  In this way the tolerable grind is extended slightly.

The intention is always to grind hard for everything, but nowadays it requires a superior mental effort to tolerate bugged drop tables. Have you ever heard of QA or you think is fair that they use their player base as lab rats to check their reactions to their mistakes? The grind is not being extended "slightly", is ridiculously tedious in comparison with previous updates and after they began to reduce the cost to build mechs, a railjack, amps, liches farming and such; I suppose they were trying to achieve the opposite, to decrease the grind. They always take a step forward and then two steps back.

hace 7 horas, master_of_destiny dijo:

Now...it's funny you should choose to die on the Grendel hill.  "It's easy to master the star chart" is...an arguable point.  Likewise, it is technically an assured reward, and you can optimize a group to only cost you 25 essence.

Completing the regular starchart is the most basic long term task for every player, I don't see how anyone could argue with that unless they are lazy or can't play regularly, but if they don't have enough time for that, they shouldn't be playing a grinding game in first place. Grendel parts aren't "technically an assured reward", they are guaranteed for just completing each mission.

hace 7 horas, master_of_destiny dijo:

The problem with all of the above is that you've conveniently forgotten that vitus essence is a random drop.  Can't believe I have to say it, but after doing more than 100 nodes with less than a dozen game types you then have to grind through a game mode which was introduced as "harder core" at onset...as defined by the high death penalties, inability to raise companions, level scaled enemies, and lest we forget the invincibility drones that now function basically the same as an eximus unit (without all the now cool stuff and at fractions of the size).  Hmmm....  Is it more reasonable to get the star chart cleared and 25 essence, or run 20ish bounties?  That's not a question with an objective answer, it's a subjective item as food for thought.

Now you are making up things pal, when did I say VE was a guaranteed drop? I said Grendel parts are guaranteed as rewards. Arbitrations are crap, we agree on that, but there are ways to cheese them and help your mates... if you know what you are doing. DE even increased VE drop rates as another move of their new generation "less grind" mentality (not even mentioning that it is affected by resource boosters). Btw let me tell ya something, in my clan, I usually made squads to farm Grendel and everyone can get him without having to farm a single Vitus Essence because I invite them since I have nothing else to do with my accumulated VE (almost 1500k right now lol). Sorry that you have bad luck with it, I think you need better friends or a better clan.

hace 7 horas, master_of_destiny dijo:

You know, I'd have been better off just not engaging.  I can see now that it'll be another TL;DR response, where you misconstrue words intentionally.  I should really be angry, but being truthful right now I just don't care.  DE is doing exactly what DE has done for years.  Release content broken, patch to a slightly less messy state, focus on whatever cosmetics people will buy, and disappear up the backsides with grind because penalizing the free to play part of the community is much easier than maintaining anything good.  This is not new...and it's funny that you should comment on your experience.  It seems to mean nothing.  I've been playing since there was no prime vault.  I remember when exterminates could be failed because their system spawned only exactly as many enemies as was required, and they could spawn off the map.  I remember years of getting syndicate medallions, where DE literally placed them in unobtainable spots.  

None of that matters though.  The bit that matters is that this is not new.  It's not been new since PoE.  To blame this update for being particularly egregious, rather than an evolution with as many bugs as is normal, is fundamentally wrong.  This isn't the chunk of corn in the excrement, this is the brown mass of digested waste that is common.  Yes, I chose to end on a crappy metaphor to round this out...and to try and smile a little bit.

So you support bad game design? Because the way you express yourself is like "this is not the first time, so we shouldn't care and let it be". How do you think that affects their reputation as a company? I don't think somebody would be excited to join a game where you have to deal with tons bugs just becasue we stopped caring and quit. DE will keep doing this until they see their profit in danger, just like it happened with Prime Resurgence at release.

I will finish by saying that I respect your opinion and read everything you wrote, so hope you do likewise, pal.

Have a good day.

[Rigtis]

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[Rigtis]

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[Meladoni]

33 minutes ago, TraceRho said:

(i dont know how long you play already but i doubt that u are very advanced in the game progress)

6 and half year in game, almost 2k hours on steam only (+ old client). It was about 2 weeks after War Within start when I do this quest, and I learn to use Dash. Do I master it? In my opinion - Yes, because I get where I want, I use it when I need, and I always feel that Dash "lack something", and now, with Sling, I can say; "that's a right way". Do you know if I master it? This do not matter. Why? Because it will be based on your experience, your personal preference and your view on both versions.

And that is way I write post above. That person insult ppl like me, who like new version and are Old Players, as he judge my my experience and preference through the prism of his own experience and preference. Which is, as I show above, pointless, and in a way he write his post - insulting, as he wrote his strow man.

So, I state it once again - It's not a matter of how old are you in game, master of X, Y and Z ability or frame ... it's a personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Do_High_Go]

3 hours ago, Meladoni said:

o, let's see if I understand you - You do not like my personal experience and preferencesa about Void Sling

 I did not mean to insult you tho, I just pointed out how the majority of people liking the Sling are people who used pilot Dash wrong and did not understand it well. It is not a Straw man argument if it is an observable quantifiable fact! I have personally observed over 30 people saying quote "I never used/could pilot well Dash anyways, glad to see it go". Isn't it kind of spiteful? Those people are not going to use Sling either, they just do not actively interact with that part of the game, yet dictate how that part of the game evolves? It just does not make any reasonable sense! If you are not one of them, don't get so offended, your case simply reminded me about the group.

You simply did not like it? Why? Because you bonked into random stuff? Because Operator dashed in a "weird" direction? Almost as if you were not aware that Dash can go in 4 different directions and when you did you reacted with "why it goes there"

It is not a personal bias, and even if it was, what are the chances the majority of people share My personal bias then? Most people agree that the Sling is slower and clunkier to use compared to Dash, so how is it My personal bias?

You can like what you want, for whatever reason, however omitting the facts in your deliverance is "kinda low". Sling IS more controllable Because It Is Slower - just like with a car, the faster it goes the harder it is to control. And still, you cannot summarize better control with "it goes forward where i look" when before it could go in 3 more directions, and you did not even need to look there! If we consider that the Sling has only 25% of the control of Dash, but i digress.

It was never about learning capacity, I would love to learn to do something new, but Sling is not something New, the key combo is the same it is just ..... simply..... slower! Over two times slower in fact. Sling needs little to none time to master, because there is so little to master, and it directly proportional to it's capabilities, which Are severely reduced.

If you are trying to justify removal of functionality and making it slower, you are lying to yourself. You can still like it for the control but always remember it is at the expense of sever reduction in speed. I like some parts of it too, it looks better for sure, but that is all, everything else is B A D relatively speaking and that is not a straw man argument since it has been Measured with numbers to show, you know, actual facts, unlike Control, which is subjective.

[cha0sWyrM]

19 hours ago, Meladoni said:

What can I say ... I love this new Void Dash. With old one I have always problem with "where he dash?! for the lowe of...". And this one is clear and transparent. Thank you!
New schools are also good. Now, I dont need to dash everywhere to activate something. Nice :)
 

i mean..."where he dash?" what do you mean where he dash? it was always the same. its a set distance in the direction YOU choose. how could you NOT know where it was going?

people who didnt know how to use void dash in the first place are not qualified to make a comparison.

thats like saying..."i dont understand how to drive a car....so bicycles are better than cars because they are easier for me"

[Trace-IV]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Meladoni:

6 and half year in game, almost 2k hours on steam only (+ old client). It was about 2 weeks after War Within start when I do this quest, and I learn to use Dash. Do I master it? In my opinion - Yes, because I get where I want, I use it when I need, and I always feel that Dash "lack something", and now, with Sling, I can say; "that's a right way". Do you know if I master it? This do not matter. Why? Because it will be based on your experience, your personal preference and your view on both versions.

And that is way I write post above. That person insult ppl like me, who like new version and are Old Players, as he judge my my experience and preference through the prism of his own experience and preference. Which is, as I show above, pointless, and in a way he write his post - insulting, as he wrote his strow man.

So, I state it once again - It's not a matter of how old are you in game, master of X, Y and Z ability or frame ... it's a personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less.

do me a favor buddy stop talking big, you are doing the exact same thing as you blame him to do, you literaly call ppl bad because YOU like the new thing more? if you like it more then i can garuantee you you have NOT mastered the dash xD
i can also play with this sling thingy, but seriously the performance is poor. its slow its one dimensional it is simply cheap, if you think so otherwise think so with the rest of the 5% playerbase that actually likes it (which includes our all holy and highly professional gaming pro Rebecca),
I'll stop this discussion here because DE wont change a #*!% anyway so be happy, and go on.

[cha0sWyrM]

On 2022-05-02 at 4:38 PM, Meladoni said:

You do not like my personal experience and preferencesa about Void Sling, and then, you use your personal bias to fit this in to your narrow worldview, you create a strawman argumentation around it, and be happy about it... how low :)

 

you have it completely wrong man.

no one really cares about your personal opinion or experience. if you like void sling...ok you like it.

the issue is that it is in fact WORSE. there are posts with videos showing how and why its worse with time stamps and everything. it isnt a matter of anyones opinion. the ability is fundamentally not as good as dash, its observably slower...it takes more physical button mashing to execute...it has less functionality since it only goes forward, it now has a cool down so we cant spam it...and it doesnt properly trigger arcanes like its supposed to. i have arcanes i spent months farming that dont work at all now (im looking at you magus anomaly).

you can like void sling all you want, but its still objectively worse than void dash in every measurable way.


 

[Tepes]

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