Angels of the Zariman: Hotfix 31.5.5

[TheRoyalBrook]

Just now, Trvldl said:

First of all I know what moonwalk bug is, been there. I've gotten moonwalk animation with operator in this update that broke some actions, and full ability disable with both frame and operator as a separate bug. Both are related to operator to frame transition and maybe knockdowns/staggers, the added delay didn't make it go away.

As for "change x value", if they can't add an option for instant sling that just repositions your operator like dash and just doesn't work with sling specific abilities then it's not a programming issue but a them issue, be it priorities, sleek code design or Steve's vision.

It's -really- a lot more complicated than just "adding an option." Trust me, I don't even do anything at this level, I just do basic IT work. That's more than just one value. That's modifying it's entire speed, or changing it's entire mechanic, both of which run the risk of a lot of bugs, and dev time being devoted to that before they can push it to prod and let the playerbase have a go.

[Rigtis]

hace 15 minutos, Naroxas44 dijo:

I keep seeing all these posts going "literally nobody asked for this", but a lot of people did; I've been wanting changes to operator's blast and dash for years now, because they felt so annoying to use and specific to one ability in the focus tree or meta. Operator felt like a movement and utility gimmick, with niche uses otherwise for things like kuva siphons or specific enemies or missions (most people probably used it for eidolon hunts in terms of content, especially compared to ropa fight and orphix).

Well actually no, I have made my research and the minority of people who were claiming for a change were those who played with a gamepad and newbies. Getting used to operator gameplay takes literally a week after unlocking if you expend more time practicing than complaining. Operator was introduced to be another tool for our frames and squads, never as a separated entity to play the whole mission (I think that was clear in The Sacrifice quest which shows that operator and warframe are one) so those "niche uses" you mention are just his intended purpose.

hace 15 minutos, Naroxas44 dijo:

These changes are iterative, and feedback will affect them; however, they're not going to scrap an entire system they just worked on for weeks without good reason, especially if it improves things for a lot of players in different game aspects. I think keeping that perspective in mind is important when discussing changes that the community wants, so expectations aren't unrealistic.

Good reason? Uhh... profit? When the numbers are going down, you don't think they would do a something about it? Also your definition of "improvement" is questionable.

[Trvldl]

3 minutes ago, TheRoyalBrook said:

It's -really- a lot more complicated than just "adding an option." Trust me, I don't even do anything at this level, I just do basic IT work. That's more than just one value. That's modifying it's entire speed, or changing it's entire mechanic, both of which run the risk of a lot of bugs, and dev time being devoted to that before they can push it to prod and let the playerbase have a go.

I'm not going to trust you as there is plenty of people working in IT in my friends. DE should already have everything ready if they used systemic approach, there is nothing to be done from scratch. Sorry, it's a them issue, not programming issue.

[xMarvin732]

Whenever i go out of Arsenal, my Nova unequips the Chairman Sigil..
It affects the front and the back

[I.V.A.R.A]

1 hour ago, FSK41 said:

nullifier protects you from a magnetic proc, if it is an enemy ability to take away your energy it makes sense nullifiers dont do a nything also if u dont want them to scale that high just kill them lmao

The magnetic comes from the centurions Hespar, not an ability, and others iI believe also do it. And a magnetic proc is a magnetic proc, just like flame pillars from Sargus Ruk can be ignored with Arcane (whatever stops heat procs). If it's not a magnetic proc it shouldn't make all the same UI sounds as well as show a magnet icon. Go get hit by an Ancient Disruptor (or 25) in Steel Path; that is an ability not countered by nullifier unfortunately. Arcane nullifier should 100% work because you're losing one of 2 slots to ignore it. It's not just a laughable thing to not have Avenger giving you 45% flat crit rate - if you're using a slot it should work.

And if you love magnetic procs so much, feel free to enjoy them. Why worry if others don't want to?

[TheRoyalBrook]

Just now, Trvldl said:

I'm not going to trust you as there is plenty of people working in IT in my friends. DE should already have everything ready if they used systemic approach, there is nothing to be done from scratch. Sorry, it's a them issue, not programming issue.

that's why I specified "their options are likely rebuild from scratch or revert and rebuild the focus changes." Those things are tied together. I don't know what your friends know, but if you really think it's just "click a button and done" to change it, then idk what to tell you. DE worked hard on this, critiques are fine, but it's not a simple change tbh. Either way I'm not in the mood to hit a full argument on a hotfix page about how much work goes into it.

[Trvldl]

1 minute ago, TheRoyalBrook said:

that's why I specified "their options are likely rebuild from scratch or revert and rebuild the focus changes." Those things are tied together. I don't know what your friends know, but if you really think it's just "click a button and done" to change it, then idk what to tell you.

Only if they didn't learn in 9 years, you don't seem to think highly of them in that case. You also assume i think it's a single click, how very condescending.

[No2Yes]

   As it stands the 'Void Sling', is not the more methodical approach compared to Void Dash, it's just the slower one, even with the Operator-Warframe switch delay brought to where it priorly was(I am unsure if this is intentional or not since it does not work on the Chrysalith relay itself but everywhere else there's no delay), you need to ameliorate this, you can not continue ignoring player feedback hotfix after hotfix, and this does not mean that you have to make it faster, just make it actually provide something more than just being slower.

 

   To do that, I offer 3 solutions:

   1. Remove the ~1s delay on void slinging, and instead make it so that the operator latches unto the space they are positioned at and become stationary and can then aim the sling beam anywhere they choose, after they stop holding the jump button their energy is expended appropriately and then they 'sling' to the aimed at position, latching unto space does not sap energy, and neither is there any forced sling, only after they stop holding will they sling, making it truly the more methodical approach, where you can even sit there for 5s deliberating where to go next, of course in that time they can use void mode to avoid damage and that would sap energy but space latching itself does not, currently there's just a delay and then you're forced to sling, at times I would think the old Void Dash would provide actually more accurate repositioning results even though slinging has the delay, probably because it's a relatively long uncontrollable delay that then forces a dash.

   2. Make the repositioning energy expenditure based on distance traveled, but don't change the maximum distance traveled per energy consumed, this makes it so the bane of operator dashing, being expending energy while not going anywhere because of invisible or hard to spot geometry, does not happen, giving the proper thought space to this more methodical approach.

   3. If the Void Sling works based on being 'afloat'/'in air', which seems to be the case in my testing you have to change that because that isn't always a possibility, what if I am in a particularly lodged spot?, I can only then use the sling if I am in Void Mode, it does not need to work that way, instead make the operator latch unto the space he is at, the moment they press Space and then Hold it, to make it a general system of travel.

 

   Lastly, these changes would not affect the method of dashing/slinging where you do a jump unto a slide/Void Mode then a jump(Ctrl+Space) for the most part, Instead I would just make that kind of Void Sling, a bit faster, maybe a bit less delayed, to be comparable to the older Void Dash, for these times where the most thoughtful action is to do the fastest one, and I guess for the players that still want it back too, to balance it out maybe I would make it a tiny bit more energy inefficient per distance traveled than the other method.

[Sheddar5K]

No plan on fixing the stupid shoulder emblem sinking?

[Pocket_Whale]

This is such an obscure problem, but the Grendel parts missions, especially Ice Fields of Riddah, need to be re-evaluated; this is not a criticism of the Eximus units as they now are, it's more of an issue with, "weapons do not do enough damage to these new Unit's over-shield without mods," -  the Chassis is nearly impossible in the current state with the new Eximus units, and they need to be removed from the mission, or reverted to the old units that are a challenge, but aren't a problem. If you could take a look at these mission types for Grendel parts, you would be life-savers. They have become brutal compared to what they were before.

[Rigtis]

hace 7 minutos, Pocket_Whale dijo:

This is such an obscure problem, but the Grendel parts missions, especially Ice Fields of Riddah, need to be re-evaluated; this is not a criticism of the Eximus units as they now are, it's more of an issue with, "weapons do not do enough damage to these new Unit's over-shield without mods," -  the Chassis is nearly impossible in the current state with the new Eximus units, and they need to be removed from the mission, or reverted to the old units that are a challenge, but aren't a problem. If you could take a look at these mission types for Grendel parts, you would be life-savers. They have become brutal compared to what they were before.

This. Yesterday a friend of mine was telling me the same thing ingame. The new Eximus units are not properly balanced for Grendel farming. We tried it out together, but it was still very tough with unmmoded equipment and base frame stats.

[LostTribesman]

Can you make it so the Seppulcrum pistol has the same effect as the Laetum pistol, where you can't dual wield with a glaive? Currently if you use the Seppulcrum with a glaive then the unique reticle for the Seppulcrum bugs out. If you throw the glaive without hitting anything or detonating it, then the reticle dissapears. It only reappears if you hit something with the glaive or detonate the glaive a few times.

[Aeoni]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Fixed being unable to individually extract from endless missions (excluding the new Zariman mission types, stay tuned for possible add!). 

Those new missions really need individual extract.

It's painful sometimes to stay for 18 minutes in Armageddon, only to have the others decide they want to extract before reaching C rotation. Conversely, I see a lot of people just aborting in the middle of long runs instead of being able to keep their rewards, which is a shame.

The potential for trolling is also huge there, just as it used to be with Survival before IE was possible.

Please turn that "possible" into "definite". Thanks! <3

[Numerounius]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Fixed being unable to individually extract from endless missions (excluding the new Zariman mission types, stay tuned for possible add!). 

•  

Wait are you saying that there might be a better way to individually extract instead of waiting at an extraction for a grueling 60 seconds without dying or going into operator mode that can be performed? If so that would be great, can't wait for its implementation! I would also love to see this retroactively applied to other endless missions. 

[LordLoaly]

can we expect some Overguard Adjustments PLEASE

 

 

[-Faded_Dreams-]

•  Atlas agument mod [RubbleHeap] it's (still) bugged - still costs energy despite having 1400+ rubbles.
   

[-Azurath-]

Oof well no point of using CC frames anymore pretty much all the cc frames are now useless. time to forma thous tank frames and make them power houses.

Plus add a transfer to warframe ability on the operator ability section please 

[Argon-Queen]

Please reconsider the fix to Gyre's rotorswell just a smidge. They way she would arc incredible red crit lightening through the map was an incredibly fun sight to behold, and I honestly haven't been so happy with a new frame in a while. Fine tune it a little if you like, but this increase in delay on her lightening strikes has certainly reduced the fun factor for me just a bit. At the very least, please consider reducing the delay in lightning strikes a little bit? I just found it incredibly fun before, and that's all I care about really.

Not only did she motivate me to pick fire rate over AOE, but to use lightning damage on my builds as well. Now, there is a little less reason to do as much.

Thanks for the content DE, Gyre is amazing one way or the other.

[Nekomian]

21 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Well actually no, I have made my research and the minority of people who were claiming for a change were those who played with a gamepad and newbies. Getting used to operator gameplay takes literally a week after unlocking if you expend more time practicing than complaining. Operator was introduced to be another tool for our frames and squads, never as a separated entity to play the whole mission (I think that was clear in The Sacrifice quest which shows that operator and warframe are one) so those "niche uses" you mention are just his intended purpose.

Could you provide your research that shows this was a minority? A lot of people are in that category of "use gamepad" or "are new", I would not call that a minority of people.

It's well known that operator is another entity to use alongside the frame and not a separate entity to play and complete missions standalone, and that's not what I was implying operator should be used for either (unless people want to play that way, then they're free to). I'm referring to the fact that it had little use outside of these specific cases. If intended purpose was for eidolons, orphix, ropa, kuva guardians, and the handful of other times it's actually required then that's fine, but for the majority of the content I don't think players used operator for anything but movement and utility, so it went underutilized in these spaces. I know I personally was not void blasting regular tileset enemies for unairu wisp spawns, using void dash for lighting dash damage, or waiting in void mode for void strike to charge for 30s in exterminate or defense missions. Many people disabled extra focus nodes they felt were "useless" and developer stats probably showed this. A quick check on discord shows I see a ton of people just saying pre-rework that operator is "just utility", and I do think this was the common mindset from conversations I've had about the topic with other users. For something that's supposed to be a major story plot point and gameplay unlock, it shouldn't have been so underutilized in multiple areas of gameplay as it was.

A lot of the game's audience plays rather casually and differently from one another; the simplicity of learning operator movement isn't the issue here (regardless of gameplay or skill) but rather the limitations it has overall. It's not difficult to understand void dash goes from point a to point b on tap, or to judge the distance of that dash / count number of dashes left with muscle memory and experience over time. Having a system that allows more flexibility is important though when you have lots of different players wanting different things, and the old one didn't do that super well tying things to dashes and limiting a lot of uses for the operator (especially in tight spaces) to specific missions or uses, rather than in a broader sense of scope.

21 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Good reason? Uhh... profit? When the numbers are going down, you don't think they would do a something about it? Also your definition of "improvement" is questionable.

Every time a major change is made, there's people that outcry and vow that they're leaving the game for good; given more people continue to join and break prior records, I would need some sourcing on "the numbers are going down" and its impacts on profit. In regards to my "improvement" claims, I said "improves things for a lot of players in different game aspects"; see the above for this. I did state this system isn't perfect, but just because it's "slower than dashing across the entire plains of eidolon" or "not as fast as void dash" doesn't mean these changes didn't improve the overall experience for players in other areas, even if certain things or areas were not specifically "improved upon".

[nslay]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Why not just give void dash to operator and and void sling to drifter?

Ah, I see you don't like drifter. Uncool to express your opinion this way since both should have Void Dash. Nobody wants Void Sling.

[ArturiaFayth]

Makes me wonder if one of those bigger feedback area's is tied to the focus schools...

[Xyngrr]

11 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

It's well known that operator is another entity to use alongside the frame and not a separate entity to play and complete missions standalone, and that's not what I was implying operator should be used for either (unless people want to play that way, then they're free to). I'm referring to the fact that it had little use outside of these specific cases. If intended purpose was for eidolons, orphix, ropa, kuva guardians, and the handful of other times it's actually required then that's fine, but for the majority of the content I don't think players used operator for anything but movement and utility, so it went underutilized in these spaces. I know I personally was not void blasting regular tileset enemies for unairu wisp spawns, using void dash for lighting dash damage, or waiting in void mode for void strike to charge for 30s in exterminate or defense missions.

You're confusing the issue here - the Focus rework is a seperate thing from the mechanical changes to play. I have seen very few ( if any ) outcry about using ability keys for abilities, or the changes to them. Most like the focus changes, myself among them.

The ingame functionality Dash and Blast had are the issue people are not liking and want addressed in some way.
Sling is...

• slower
• shorter range
• has animations on both ends
• prevents linear directional movement
• requires looking at the destination point and not the target you're fighting

Blast was...

• The operator hit and run melee
• instant stun or knockdown on many enemies
• high status chance, proc'd a lot of void status
• gave time for amp to recharge while still engaging

These are not all relevant points for everyone complaining about their removal but they are all points that come up. meaning someone used these features and they were removed with no replacement, so it's a straight nerf to the functionality and experience.
Which also grates given the reason given for their removal was to encourage more Operator use.

[-Gara]

Let's bring back the old void dash and remove transference cooldown because everyone was happy with them but you randomly decided to ruin the fun and quality of play for your entire player-base. One of the worst changes ever 

 

[KitMeHarder]

For the short time I had Gyre, I must say this fix (nerf) has really killed her viability for me. The one second cooldown on her Rotorswell discharge needs to at least be per enemy, not universal. I honestly was having a lot of fun with her before this change, and I haven't really enjoyed a frame since Xaku.

So I feel this change alone should make her good enough, and you can just tweak the graphics so they aren't as taxing (or add a cap to how many are visually shown, like you did with slash procs).

[TheRoyalBrook]

10 minutes ago, -Gara said:

Let's bring back the old void dash and remove transference cooldown because everyone was happy with them but you randomly decided to ruin the fun and quality of play for your entire player-base. One of the worst changes ever 

 

that... seems a drastic exaggeration.