Accessibility: Trigger Mod/Toggle/Auto-Melee Please (aka, stop making me click like crazy)

[Salenstormwing]

Small suggestion. Accessability suggestion.

I want a mod that turns Semi and Burst weapons instead Auto and Burst-Auto trigger-type weapons.

Why? Because my hand hurts. The new Incarnon weapons are great, but I remember why I stick to either hold-and-release triggers like bows, or auto-fire weapons. I hate clicking constantly, trying to get kills, only to end a day of Warframe with my hand feeling like I murdered it.

The only change is it would make weapons in Semi and/or Burst allow the user to HOLD the trigger instead of having to tap it like crazy.

Even Reddit thinks we could use something like this. Some of us players love the game, but our bodies do not. I'm even open to there being penalties, as long as it's a choice I get to make as a player, I'm going to go for comfort of my hand and wrist over "because it's how it's always been".

 

(11-30-22) EDIT: There was a minor change to (SOME) Semi-Auto weapons, in today's patch, 32.2.0. Some Semi-Auto Weapons had their RoF to bring them down to "human" levels of usable and that allowed the devs to tweak them to hit harder and be MORE usable. This does NOT solve issues like my own where I suffer from repetitive motions, as the weapons DO require a lot of button presses, they'll just require LESS clicks now. Better, but not Best.

Still would prefer a toggle, or a mod, or ANYTHING, but at least they're realizing that there was no HUMAN way to click a mouse to be fully effective with a modded Semi-Auto weapon as they previously were modded.

Feel free to add your thoughts and feeling in the thread as well.

 

(4-10-23) EDIT: Hello all. I'd like to thank all those who have commented and kept liking the suggestion of an Accessability switch for Semi & Burst to be changed to Full Auto & Burst-Auto options. It means a lot both for me, and for folks who enjoy playing Warframe but suffer issues with arthritis, tendonitis, and other maladies that inflict pain to folks merely trying to play the game but find certain weapons painful to use.

I recently found out that Bungie actually had one of their Senior Developers come out and tell their staff about this situation, and they created options to add Accessability to their games, as seen in the following article: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50745

“I was hesitant at first to mention [to Chris] one of my barriers: fast firing non-automatic weapons like Scout Rifles and Hand Cannons cause me hand pain during longer sessions. Why couldn’t we have a way to enable auto-fire on these kinds of weapons? I braced for a negative response. Instead, he heartily agreed and mentioned it was something he had already been considering as something that we could work toward including in the game. You may have seen rumblings about upcoming changes in this area in recent TWAB posts and we hope you’ll stay tuned for more updates.” 

The devs over at Bungie went forth and added the Full Auto switch so their revolvers and scout rifles and the like could be used less painfully. If Bungie can see this as an issue, why can't we see it as an issue in Warframe, where Semi & Burst weapons have MUCH higher Rates Of Fire than their Destiny 2 breathern? Do we need DE's devs to have to suffer with the players already suffering to make them understand why this would be a nice change to make?

So far, no DE Dev has said anything here. And I'm going to keep this thread going till something happens on this that does some lasting effect on the game. I welcome you all to continue with me on this fight.

--Salen Stormwing

 

(8-26-23) EDIT: Hi Again. Happy Tennocon '23! Ten years of Warframe. And we got confirmation from Pablo that we're getting expansion of Accessibility Options in the upcoming updates! Auto-Melee is for sure. Maybe Auto-Trigger as well? Maybe? Maybe not? Either way, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

--Salen Stormwing, 1999

 

(9-29-23) EDIT: Hi. DE Finally graced us with  an accessibility section during yesterday's DevStream Auto-Melee is here for all but a few weapons (those being thrown ones). No Auto-Fire though. You can read all about it here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1366783-abyss-of-dagath-dev-workshop-accessibility-hud-improvements/

So no spamming E, just trigger buttons.

 

(11-17-23) EDIT: Hello. Since Auto-Melee's creation, I've been seeing a suggestion crop up that I feel does have some validity to both in this suggestion, as well as any future additions to accessibility. That is...

MAKE AUTO-MELEE (and future Auto-Trigger) HAVE A TOGGLE

Let players turn it off it bothers him. You can add it to the Accessibility Setting page (similar to how Destiny 2 does with theirs). That is all.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Salenstormwing
November Setting Edit

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

6 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

I'm even open to there being penalties,

I'm not

considering that Macro usage is already allowed for this purpose, and carries no penalties

it wouldn't be fair for the less tech-savvy players to have a disadvantage to get the same QoL.

Trigger Mode should just be an Option Setting, right next to the Accessibility stuff.

Edited May 4, 2022 by (PSN)haphazardlynamed

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Trigger Mode should just be an Option Setting, right next to the Accessibility stuff.

Exactly this.  Or a setting in the Arsenal for each weapon, although I think that's much less likely.

[Salenstormwing]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I'm not

considering that Macro usage is already allowed for this purpose, and carries no penalties

it wouldn't be fair for the less tech-savvy players to have a disadvantage to get the same QoL.

Trigger Mode should just be an Option Setting, right next to the Accessibility stuff.

I would LOVE them to be accessibility options.

Some of my favorite weapons early on were the dual revolver-style weapons, but I can't use them anymore as they tear up my finger like crazy.

And as for penalties, I say I'm open to them because I know there are folks out there who see any change as a 'bad thing' even if it means folks with bad fingers and wrists have real issues using certain weapons in-game.

I've seen Burst-Auto weapons in other games.  And they're great to use, because you don't have to click constantly. You just shoot, have the gun pause slightly, then shoot another burst, and keep going till you hit the bottom of the mag. It's simple, it doesn't hurt to use, and I don't feel like my hand is getting murdered.

I love the new weapons of the Zariman, but damn if the Semi-mode makes me not want to use them.

[Quest]

+1 can't believe this hasn't been made yet

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

And as for penalties, I say I'm open to them because I know there are folks out there who see any change as a 'bad thing'

It's a feedback forum.  Give feedback you believe in.  If you think penalties are justified, argue for that.  If you're not sure, say that. 

But if you don't believe they're justified, well, there's no sense in trying to appease people who won't be appeased.

[Salenstormwing]

10 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's a feedback forum.  Give feedback you believe in.  If you think penalties are justified, argue for that.  If you're not sure, say that. 

But if you don't believe they're justified, well, there's no sense in trying to appease people who won't be appeased.

Fair enough.

The option being in the Accessibility Section of the Options Menu, similar to "Hold Melee for Struggle" would be a fine option for "Hold to constantly fire" & "Hold to constantly melee". I know some folks in the previously quoted Reddit thread wondered why it wasn't an option with Melee. And it's not like the combos for melee would act different since every melee is just hit the Melee button + (nothing/move/block).

I also see the option of a Rank 0 Exilius Trigger Mod as totally a valid way to implement it. Just make it so it's the ONLY mod that could be slotted without unlocking the Exilius slot. It costs nothing, and it lets you put the mod on what you want, in case you DO, for some reason, want to leave it as-is.

Another possibility, let us toggle it from the weapon-stat page. Obviously this would apply to only semi and burst options, but having something you could select on the weapon in the weapon screen, would work too.

I like playing devil's advocate. I do think the Option in the Options Menu would be BEST, since it is an issue that's more driven by reducing wear and tear on my hand, but ANY option that gets it implemented would be better than NO option. I want to use my Akmagnus pistols some day, but I have a real fear I'll never do it because my hand just can't take it.

 

Help me DE-wan Kenobi, you're our only hope.

Happy May the 4th.

[Lutesque]

11 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

 

I want a mod that turns Semi and Burst weapons instead Auto and Burst-Auto trigger-type weapons.

Why do need an Accessibility Feature in the Form of a Mod ?

Would it sit right with you if the Colour Blind Feature was an Arcane ? 🤔

11 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I'm not

considering that Macro usage is already allowed for this purpose, and carries no penalties

it wouldn't be fair for the less tech-savvy players to have a disadvantage to get the same QoL.

Trigger Mode should just be an Option Setting, right next to the Accessibility stuff.

This ^^^

And while we're at it.... Wheres the "ALWAYS SPRINT" feature ? 🤔

[Famecans]

12 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

Some of my favorite weapons early on were the dual revolver-style weapons, but I can't use them anymore as they tear up my finger like crazy.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I also see the option of a Rank 0 Exilius Trigger Mod as totally a valid way to implement it. Just make it so it's the ONLY mod that could be slotted without unlocking the Exilius slot. It costs nothing, and it lets you put the mod on what you want, in case you DO, for some reason, want to leave it as-is.

It would also need to be a mod gifted as soon as the modding station is opened up.   I'd also want it available on melee, so we're talking adding a slot there.  If they're doing that, shouldn't there be other melee exilus options, rather than just have a slot with one eligible mod?

Between those things, making it cost zero capacity, and having it be eligible to slot in exilus without an exilus adapter, that's seeming like a lot of contortions just to make a square _^mod peg fit into a round _{^{accessibility/health}} hole. 

And even after all that, it still, to a degree, discourages people from using the feature.  Because the exilus slot has some value on almost all weapons, and a great deal on some of them.

Like, I could see DE doing it that way if the other ways are problematic, and I'm not denying it would be an tremendous improvement on what we have now.  But it very much seems like trying to fix the problem with duct tape and baling wire.

[Salenstormwing]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Like, I could see DE doing it that way if the other ways are problematic, and I'm not denying it would be an tremendous improvement on what we have now.  But it very much seems like trying to fix the problem with duct tape and baling wire.

True.

DE, anyone from the staff... can you like...  say something on this please? Would love to have someone from the staff notice this.

[Sojufueled]

I had to move my melee quick attack to mousewheel because this game uniquely stresses my body. Single shot high fire rate weapons I avoid because of this, and I honestly don't think they are balanced around the need to click.

[Salenstormwing]

12 hours ago, Sojufueled said:

I had to move my melee quick attack to mousewheel because this game uniquely stresses my body. Single shot high fire rate weapons I avoid because of this, and I honestly don't think they are balanced around the need to click.

I've heard several folks suggest that. I don't like it myself, because it's still a pretty uncomfortable fix if it's your fingers that are hurting. This is why we really need an HOLD-to-FIRE/MELEE option in accessibility.

I'd love to know if it would be possible from a coding standpoint from someone like DE Steve, but I don't know if he checks the forums. If you see a Dev Stream, it would be nice to help post the question there and ask folks here to up-vote it for visibility.

Seriously, I miss my dual pistols, but they're just too painful to use.

[Tyreaus]

37 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

I'd love to know if it would be possible from a coding standpoint from someone like DE Steve

I can tell you: yes, it's possible for guns at minimum. Or at least it blooming well should be. You would have an option to turn on auto for semi-auto weapons - either true or false. In the code should be a check for the trigger type of the weapon you're using. This would look like, "If it's semi, use this stuff; if it's auto, use this stuff..." with appropriate loops, references, running settings and memory values and so on. The trick is to factor in the boolean, so it would read like, "if it's semi and this setting is turned off, do this stuff; if it's auto or it is semi and this setting is turned on, do this other stuff". (That can look a few different ways, from if statements to nesting that decision matrix inside the semi-auto code and referring to the auto function)

The vast majority, if not all, of the core functionality wouldn't change. The setting would just make semi-autos point to code ordinarily reserved for autos.

Melee would be a little different because melee probably doesn't have the code to handle auto firing like ranged weapons do. The fix there might end up being an internal macro instead: if the setting is active, it repeats the input at a certain rate while the melee button is held down. (That's also a fix for the auto option above, but I find it's a little messy and doesn't promote clean code. If you want the first solution to work, your code has to be decently organized and modular.)

[Sojufueled]

9 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I've heard several folks suggest that. I don't like it myself, because it's still a pretty uncomfortable fix if it's your fingers that are hurting. This is why we really need an HOLD-to-FIRE/MELEE option in accessibility.

I'd love to know if it would be possible from a coding standpoint from someone like DE Steve, but I don't know if he checks the forums. If you see a Dev Stream, it would be nice to help post the question there and ask folks here to up-vote it for visibility.

Seriously, I miss my dual pistols, but they're just too painful to use.

If that's not clear, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just showing what I've had to try to do to cope in the meanwhile.

[Divinehero]

yea i've been wanting somethin like this for years

[Salenstormwing]

Still no word. Also, Unlocking a Relic, getting the Tonkor boost with infinite ammo... OWW MY FINGER! 😡

Come on DE, please give us the option to just hold to continue to shoot. Please. I wanna go back to my Dual Revolvers on my Mesa... I wanna be a cowboy!

[quxier]

On 2022-05-06 at 8:01 PM, Tyreaus said:

Melee would be a little different because melee probably doesn't have the code to handle auto firing like ranged weapons do. The fix there might end up being an internal macro instead: if the setting is active, it repeats the input at a certain rate while the melee button is held down. (That's also a fix for the auto option above, but I find it's a little messy and doesn't promote clean code. If you want the first solution to work, your code has to be decently organized and modular.)

Melee has something like this:

- You can hold Glaives

- Ghoulsaw's block+forward combo looks like few combos for one key input (but I may be wrong).

[ShogunGunshow]

On 2022-05-04 at 6:10 AM, Lutesque said:

Why do need an Accessibility Feature in the Form of a Mod ?

Would it sit right with you if the Colour Blind Feature was an Arcane ? 🤔

Don't give DE ideas.

[Salenstormwing]

On 2022-05-18 at 10:21 AM, quxier said:

Melee has something like this:

- You can hold Glaives

- Ghoulsaw's block+forward combo looks like few combos for one key input (but I may be wrong).

So it's SORT of implemented but not completely? What the hay, DE?

But seriously, Auto-Burst weapons are the best.  You get the nice 3-round burst and you can concentrate on aiming instead of working your finger into a blistered mess full of pain and sadness.

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

So it's SORT of implemented but not completely? What the hay, DE?

It's just they implemented stuffs for particular weapon not whole system. So it's understandable that you get some "partial support" for such feature.

10 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

But seriously, Auto-Burst weapons are the best.  You get the nice 3-round burst and you can concentrate on aiming instead of working your finger into a blistered mess full of pain and sadness.

Gyre's 4th + single target weapon with some slight AoE like Chakhurr is pretty nice as well

[Salenstormwing]

Huh? Oh, hey.

Still no word from DE about helping folks not have to deal with trigger issues because of bad hands and pain. Which is why I want to mention the Catabolyst pistol. Most pistols, when you unload them, will reload when you hit the trigger button again. But that's not so with the Catabolyst, which when you hit the trigger, does NOTHING. SO you gotta manually reload it with the reload key, like a pleb, so it can throw the old ammo pack out like a grenade.

Fun. Even when we have automated systems, DE turns them off at times.

But anyways, in other news, I just hit Rank 20 in the ongoing Nightwave! And it has... "RANGED ADVANTAGE" mod.

+300% damage if no enemies are within 10m.

Pretty Awesome, yeah?

It's for the Akjagara only. A dual pistol set that ONLY has SEMI triggers.

"CLEM."

Yeah, I don't like it either, Clem. Nor does my hand.

[Unimira]

I'm for making semi-trigger completely optional, doesn't make ANY sense when throwing weapons have auto-trigger already (the Warframe can automate movement for the entire arm but not a finger?) and macros or binding trigger to mousewheel can bypass most drawbacks anyways.

We even have curious examples like the Cyngas that has Auto-Burst in space but normal (Semi-)Burst on ground and the new evolving weapons have semi-trigger while unevolved but become auto when evolved.

Not sure DE has any thought behind trigger types, feels like they just don't care.

[EinheriarJudith]

5 hours ago, Unimira said:

I'm for making semi-trigger completely optional, doesn't make ANY sense when throwing weapons have auto-trigger already (the Warframe can automate movement for the entire arm but not a finger?) and macros or binding trigger to mousewheel can bypass most drawbacks anyways.

We even have curious examples like the Cyngas that has Auto-Burst in space but normal (Semi-)Burst on ground and the new evolving weapons have semi-trigger while unevolved but become auto when evolved.

Not sure DE has any thought behind trigger types, feels like they just don't care.

there is also this: Battacor | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom

[Salenstormwing]

3 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

there is also this: Battacor | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom

I forgot about the Battacor being Auto-Burst. It's a very fun weapon. And Auto-Burst is such a joy to use. If DE could make Burst function like the Battacor's Auto-Burst, I'd be happy. I'd also love Semi being able to be Auto. Yes, it would require a bit more control, but at the very least it wouldn't be limited by how fast I could force my mouse and finger to click vs me merely having to remove my finger from the trigger when I felt like doing it.

But as an accessibility option, let the player be the one who determines how they play and how to enjoy the game without forcing them into injuring themselves to keep up. My Akjagara Prime will never see the light of day otherwise.