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Alternox: Why it's so weak and how to fix it.


ElecDeathblade
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1 hour ago, ElecDeathblade said:

What setup and arcanes do you used? Because that weapon isn't capable of doing that by itself.

And even if you're capable of doing that, the weapon is still weaker than it should, there are other weapons that can do what you did there faster.

They’re using Arcane Avenger (whadda you know, flat crit fixes a lot) and modded corrosive + Hunter Munitions (pls don’t do that, use the few brain cells you have, though it does make for a convenient “this is fine” since your test subjects are weak to corrosive.) A nice side of Galvanized Aptitude (bugged to multiply base damage mods/buffs on Alternox btw). And to top it all off, a panzer to proc viral. Wisp for that fire rate buff.

So yea, add some buff dressing and the weapon is “fine”.

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hace 5 horas, ElecDeathblade dijo:

What setup and arcanes do you used? Because that weapon isn't capable of doing that by itself.

And even if you're capable of doing that, the weapon is still weaker than it should, there are other weapons that can do what you did there faster.

Only arcane was Avenger which i proc in simulacrum with combat dicipline, a corrosive build + heat and hm for aptitude with a vulvaphyla for viral, this plus the elec from wisp for a total of 4 different status procs, i'm also using primed faction mods.

I was running pointstrike but early today i finally decided to put another forma and put galvanized scope and swapped merciless for primary Deadhead and Thermite rounds for hunter munition.

I was using wisp for the fire rate.

All i'm missing now is arcane acceleration and i can free the weapon to any frame, i mean i have a R1 but i need at least a r3, i could swap scope for fire rate and run Avenger but it doesn't feel the same.

Now the weapon has 3 formas it probably require 1 or 2 more to slot terminal velocity and a riven.

Now i'm running 560% dmg with 4.8 multiplier and additional headshot multiplier with Deadhead, the enemy i Target with altshot rise the base dmg to 620% and with a riven i can take it next tier of dmg all this without warframe abilities in effect.

Viral has no added bonus dmg on armored enemies so it's a waste to mod for it, with this You get Big numbers and Big slash procs with free viral from vulvaphyla.

Alt shot is utility is not meant to do dmg but it can kill some enemies if You spam it's explosion at max stacks.

A Lot of the latest weapon released are setup weapons btw, there are already an absurd amount of weapons that require no effort.

Ambassador performs exactly like this but people thrash talk it to much, with the release of fractilized reset it's alt shot is no longer an issue and You can run arcane Rage or a frame buff if You feel your dmg is lacking with the 320 from aptitude.

This work on all sort of assault rifles and some shotguns, shotguns have good base dmg tho and can use use a viral build so is a matter of preference.

Wanna free some mod slots for testing? Run chroma.

Wanna test if You can reach consistent Orange or reds? run nidus.

Edited by (PSN)Worta696
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hace 4 horas, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom dijo:

and modded corrosive + Hunter Munitions (pls don’t do that, use the few brain cells you have,

Do You realize that viral has no bonus dmg on armor and by running a viral build you're actually losing dmg.

Is also modded differently to tackle corpus and hm get changed for heat to deal with infested on deimos.

Viral builds are good for high base and multiplier slow weapons, better suited for aoe weapons and most shotguns and used by casual players that don't care about maximizing dmg.

When youre doing a 200k viral slash on a ten stacked viral with a vulvaphyla corrosive Will do a 500k one.

ARs without aoe alt shots lack base dmg to make use of it and unless you're armor stripping.

Wanna see it on a tenora prime?

Edited by (PSN)Worta696
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4 hours ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

Do You realize that viral has no bonus dmg on armor and by running a viral build you're actually losing dmg.

Corrosive only has a bonus against ferrite armor. More importantly, it doesn’t increase the damage of slash procs. So you’re mixing a proc that removes armor with a proc that ignores armor. You’re better off picking just one. Not modding Viral only works if you exclusively run Panzer, and even then it’s not always reliable.

Also let’s take a minute to look at this 

5 hours ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

a corrosive build + heat and hm

You say you’re running corrosive heat + hm, but then you say 

5 hours ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

swapped merciless for primary Deadhead and Thermite rounds for hunter munition.

but you’re already running Hunter Munitions.

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hace 12 minutos, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom dijo:

Corrosive only has a bonus against ferrite armor. More importantly, it doesn’t increase the damage of slash procs. So you’re mixing a proc that removes armor with a proc that ignores armor. You’re better off picking just one. Not modding Viral only works if you exclusively run Panzer, and even then it’s not always reliable.

If those we're innate slash procs pheraps but those are tied to the dmg type that proc the HM chance for slash so if i do 500k hit the slash dmg is derivared from that hit.

To add to that corrosive alone reduce 80% of enemy armor, by reducing the armor increase is own dmg and the 325% bonus dmg from 10 viral stacks added by the vulvaphyla take the dmg Even further which can't be said about about a viral build that doesnt get any other benefits beyond its own stacks.

hace 15 minutos, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom dijo:

but you’re already running Hunter Munitions.

Where do You think the 4.8 crit multiplier came from, in The video i wasnt running vital sense this is the Main reason i swapped to primary Deadhead so i can increase it more with he headshot multiplier it grants.

 

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5 hours ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

Only arcane was Avenger which i proc in simulacrum with combat dicipline, a corrosive build + heat and hm for aptitude with a vulvaphyla for viral, this plus the elec from wisp for a total of 4 different status procs, i'm also using primed faction mods.

I was running pointstrike but early today i finally decided to put another forma and put galvanized scope and swapped merciless for primary Deadhead and Thermite rounds for hunter munition.

I was using wisp for the fire rate.

All i'm missing now is arcane acceleration and i can free the weapon to any frame, i mean i have a R1 but i need at least a r3, i could swap scope for fire rate and run Avenger but it doesn't feel the same.

Now the weapon has 3 formas it probably require 1 or 2 more to slot terminal velocity and a riven.

Now i'm running 560% dmg with 4.8 multiplier and additional headshot multiplier with Deadhead, the enemy i Target with altshot rise the base dmg to 620% and with a riven i can take it next tier of dmg all this without warframe abilities in effect.

Viral has no added bonus dmg on armored enemies so it's a waste to mod for it, with this You get Big numbers and Big slash procs with free viral from vulvaphyla.

Alt shot is utility is not meant to do dmg but it can kill some enemies if You spam it's explosion at max stacks.

A Lot of the latest weapon released are setup weapons btw, there are already an absurd amount of weapons that require no effort.

Ambassador performs exactly like this but people thrash talk it to much, with the release of fractilized reset it's alt shot is no longer an issue and You can run arcane Rage or a frame buff if You feel your dmg is lacking with the 320 from aptitude.

This work on all sort of assault rifles and some shotguns, shotguns have good base dmg tho and can use use a viral build so is a matter of preference.

Wanna free some mod slots for testing? Run chroma.

Wanna test if You can reach consistent Orange or reds? run nidus.

Like that the only weapon that would be still unusable would be the Stug, but that doesn't mean the weapon isn't weaker than a lot of other guns that can be obtained much earlier, because I remind you that the Alternox can only be farmed in the Zariman, literally the last place you unlock and with the highest level enemies outside of bounties and Steel Path.

Also, if you're going to use Slash it's better to run Viral instead of Corrosive, Viral enhances the damage that the bleeds of the Slash can do while Corrosive only removes some armor.

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

To add to that corrosive alone reduce 80% of enemy armor, by reducing the armor increase is own dmg and the 325% bonus dmg from 10 viral stacks added by the vulvaphyla take the dmg Even further which can't be said about about a viral build that doesnt get any other benefits beyond its own stacks.

It's more reliable to have Viral in the weapon, and you can use whatever companion you want instead of only the ones that can add viral reliably.

Also, Corrosive only works on armored enemies, Viral works for everything.

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Justo ahora, ElecDeathblade dijo:

Like that the only weapon that would be still unusable would be the Stug, but that doesn't mean the weapon isn't weaker than a lot of other guns that can be obtained much earlier, because I remind you that the Alternox can only be farmed in the Zariman, literally the last place you unlock and with the highest level enemies outside of bounties and Steel Path.

Also, if you're going to use Slash it's better to run Viral instead of Corrosive, Viral enhances the damage that the bleeds of the Slash can do while Corrosive only removes some armor.

Vulvaphyla is adding the viral of your conventional viral build if i deal a 100k hit the slash dmg derivates from that.

Corrosive wil get bigger numbers the more stacks it has on the enemy and with an already stacked viral the dmg scales way harder.

 

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

If those we're innate slash procs pheraps but those are tied to the dmg type that proc the HM chance for slash so if i do 500k hit the slash dmg is derivared from that hit.

Slash procs don’t care what damage type your base damage is, only how much base damage you have. Not how much your weapon hit for against an enemy, the base damage. A slash proc from a weapon with 100 base damage as pure impact will be the same as a slash proc from a weapon with 100 base damage as corrosive.

This is game mechanics 102.

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

To add to that corrosive alone reduce 80% of enemy armor, by reducing the armor increase is own dmg and the 325% bonus dmg from 10 viral stacks added by the vulvaphyla take the dmg Even further which can't be said about about a viral build that doesnt get any other benefits beyond its own stacks.

Guess you missed the part where I said 

36 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Not modding Viral only works if you exclusively run Panzer

if you’re going to run Hunter Munitions, you “need” a viral source, and the implication was that not everyone runs Panzer exclusively.

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hace 1 minuto, ElecDeathblade dijo:

Also, Corrosive only works on armored enemies, Viral works for everything.

Fully stacked viral grants 325% bonus dmg to other sources and Will deal dmg againts shield and armor without any bonus because it only has againts health and unless you're armor stripping every single enemy to deal direct Youll be stuck with the 325 and the slash and nothing more dmg meanwhile corrosive get a bonus againts ferrite that adds beyond the 325% from viral plus the bonus of the 80% armor reduction to grant bigger slash procs attached to the corrosive to health caused by hunter munitions.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

Fully stacked viral grants 325% bonus dmg to other sources and Will deal dmg againts shield and armor without any bonus because it only has againts health and unless you're armor stripping every single enemy to deal direct Youll be stuck with the 325 and the slash and nothing more dmg meanwhile corrosive get a bonus againts ferrite that adds beyond the 325% from viral plus the bonus of the 80% armor reduction to grant bigger slash procs attached to the corrosive to health caused by hunter munitions.

You don’t know how game mechanics work. The exit is on the left.

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36 minutes ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

Fully stacked viral grants 325% bonus dmg to other sources and Will deal dmg againts shield and armor without any bonus because it only has againts health and unless you're armor stripping every single enemy to deal direct Youll be stuck with the 325 and the slash and nothing more dmg meanwhile corrosive get a bonus againts ferrite that adds beyond the 325% from viral plus the bonus of the 80% armor reduction to grant bigger slash procs attached to the corrosive to health caused by hunter munitions.

Viral procs increase damage against health, including armored health. It also increases damage from procs such as slash. Armor has no effect on the slash procs as that comes directly from your modded base damage so even if your hit does 1 damage to the enemy due to their armor the slash proc hits at full strength and ignores the armor entirely.

An example: Say you have a weapon that does 100 base damage for ease of calculations. You hit an enemy with 99% damage reduction and proc slash, the slash will then tick for 100 damage even if the initial hit did 1 damage. If you crit, and say the weapon has a 2x multiplier then you do 2 damage and the slash ticks for 200 damage. 

 

In either case the showcase doesn't say much as you are using abilities and frame buffs. You could probably do something comparative to that with the stug and a mirage.

Had i used my gyre setup in a similar setup i could have blown the whole group up easily enough. Use the pull thing then nuke their armor with unairu and fire away, even with crappy mods anything would tear through enemies easily in such a scenario. Doesn't mean the weapon is good however, it has to be compared to other weapons.

Edited by Vahenir
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1 hour ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

Fully stacked viral grants 325% bonus dmg to other sources and Will deal dmg againts shield and armor without any bonus because it only has againts health and unless you're armor stripping every single enemy to deal direct Youll be stuck with the 325 and the slash and nothing more dmg meanwhile corrosive get a bonus againts ferrite that adds beyond the 325% from viral plus the bonus of the 80% armor reduction to grant bigger slash procs attached to the corrosive to health caused by hunter munitions.

You forget that 90% of Corpus doesn't have armor and Corrosive on them is 100% useless.

Viral affects the health directly, meaning that it can be used against everything. And when I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING.

Also, if you want to remove armor, just use a Sarpa with Shattering Impact, two or three shots of that and you removed 100% of the armor.

Edited by ElecDeathblade
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49 minutes ago, (PSN)Worta696 said:

Bark all You want, You can't Even do proper math.

It's not a math problem, is the bleeds from Slash ignores enemy armor, so that 80% armor removal that you did doesn't get added to the bleeds.

Also, again, if you want to do direct damage to armored enemies, use Sarpa with Shattering Impact or an ability that removes all armor.

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On 2022-05-10 at 1:00 AM, Sojufueled said:

It seems to me like it's made to toss the alt fire into one of Gyre min-vortices to ramp up her passive, but it's debatable whether I'd really find that worthwhile. Any pure status weapon with no crit is kind of doomed to be a primer.

Phantasma looks confused.

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  • 4 months later...

I guess June was understandably the last time anyone thought about the Alternox. Personally, I didn't really pay attention to it with AotZ with all the new focus stuff and arcanes around to play with, and I only just noticed the cool looking tesla gun, got it built and forma'd it up. I blindly hoped that there would be something saving it from irrelevance despite being numerically equivalent to 1/3 of a Supra Vandal. There isn't, of course - it really is just 1/3 of a Supra Vandal. 

So everyone's known for months that it's MR fodder, but it's worth noting that it's also one of the guns that more recently got dragged in with the Ignis in having its headshot multiplier 1'd out. The same headshot multiplier that was used earlier in this thread as part of an attempt to illustrate the gun behaving like a normal gun, as long as it was benefiting from a fat stack of buffs at the time, as if to finally remove the usefulness of the weapon for that one guy who thought it was basically okay. And despite its projectile looking to be the size of that of like, the Battacor, way smaller than the wave gun mode of the Fulmin.

DE why do you even make these pretty guns with design gimmicks if only to watch them suffer

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Wait, a 10 second AoE status priming pulse, that's what it does?! I'm excited to bother pulling it out of my Forge now.

This gun is literally for priming enemies caught inside of Arcsphere + Coil Horizon combos.. The same ones I already kill hordes of Grineer on Steel Path with, now with extra crits from all of the extra electric procs and something else to mod on like Viral as well. I bounce around a lot while playing Gyre and don't fire my weapons a lot because I'm just chaining skills so a low maintenance weapon like an area DoT is great!

It's actually perfect, they made a weapon for Gyre that actually compliments one of her best playstyles.

I sort of understand why this gun would not come out on top on most other Warframes but it looks like they really matched it to her this time.

Like, an actual signature weapon.

Edit: Except after just testing it I guess it just fires one of the alternate fire bubbles at once no matter what.. I guess I was expecting more even for Gyre.

RIP lol.

Edited by cute_moth.npc
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Yep. The secondary fire doesn't do a whole lot that Arcsphere doesn't, but it might be useful if she could launch more than one to spread some statuses other than electric. No such luck. 

And the ideal with synergistic weapons would be that they would be usable by other frames but special with the frame they're built for, rather than being pretty useless for anyone else but just usable for that frame. It still needs twice the damage on its normal fire to come close to the curve.

And Gyre's crit boost is a multiple of modded crit chance, not an additive crit source, so this isn't one of those guns with 0% CC and a 3x multiplier just waiting to be unlocked by an additive crit ability. Everything she can do to make this gun better, she can do to make a better gun, still better....

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  • 1 month later...

i hope that if the buffs this weapon they dont do the boring thing and buff primary fire damage only. we already have phantasma for a great status gun that has a face secondary fire, we dont need another one.

if you buff it, focus heavily on the alternate fire. that's why anyone would even wanna use the gun. let there be multiple aoe's active at a time, depending on how much multishot you have, fire rate should increase pulse rate (while still staying up for 10 seconds) and give it some crit for christs sake. 2%, you might aswell just have said 0.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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