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Next Update Post-Angels of the Zariman


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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

So your idea of 'Challenging' is just to... remove Warframe from the equation entirely so that it's just a gun game?

 

My idea comes the realization that:

1) People are complaining about the change only affecting CC and pushing damage further. Respecting the decision to keep CC as it is, how can the field be equalized?

2) Elite enemies should be priority targets and threats. You should not be able to just ignore them and treat them like regular canon-fodder enemies.

Coming from that perspective: My argument as to what should be done.

10 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Like... Are you sure you like playing the game if you're idea of 'challenging' and I can only assume to be 'fun' is just to remove straight up 90% of the mechanics so that we can play Gunshooter The Game?

My "idea" of challenging is "not allowing me to get comfy and rest in my laurels performing automated actions to shut-down the game as if it was a puzzle to solve, keeping me on my toes and scaled around the power level of the gear/equipment available to my experience/playtime and resources". Anything that accomplishes that is fair game in my opinion.

And still you haven't answered my question and instead proceed to ask what my definition is.

Edited by Jarriaga
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6 minutes ago, FSK41 said:

maybe you arent supposed to live trough everything by pressing gloom button ?

Quote on Quote tanks die onehit too unless abusing stupid shieldgate, and shieldgate is the same  to CC frames. There is no difference  between them on relevant levels, in your average Bounty u can turn off brain as Rhino sure but who cares about that

U are supposed to fear eximus not control them

you are STILL missing my point, holy S#&$. i am saying that NO MATTER THE ABILITIES, even without gloom ( that i almost don't use, and didn't used for higher level mission either ) it was faster to melee the overguard than use operator... is that clear enough for you? 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

In regards to Void Sling, we’re experimenting with directional changes such as strafing (sideways mobility) and backwards slings to allow more movement options. Strafe and back slings were tested during Void Sling’s development, but at the time we felt having similar directional control to bullet jump was important. Community feedback tells us that the more mobility options the better, and we are working on changes that meet that desire. Additionally we’re reviewing the code to resolve some Transference latency issues and considering other tweaks to Operators. 

That's all great news but cardinal direction movement was valuable for instantaneity and linear travel path, even without charging sling is slower so might as well turn around to aim. I still think that having both movement options is the best solution.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, (NSW)Vampire_Mika said:

really would be better imo, if its a super tank enemy that buffs all nearby enemies, but has no weapons to protect itself, so its a Priority target, the enemy is immune to AoE, status effects and damaging abilities, if you get too close, it stops buffing and runs away and is weak to CC abilities when running away. if too many enemies die in a short time, it will try to run away to more enemies. it is quite fast and has a bullet proof shield aimed at you when running away, CC abilities can slow or disable this shield.

 

something like this is waaay more effective and unique imo.

That reads like a reasonable middle ground. Fair enough.

Edited by Jarriaga
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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally we’re reviewing the code to resolve some Transference latency issues and considering other tweaks to Operators. 

Please remove the transference delay and revert it back to as it was.

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

Perfect timing 👏 please consider adding a slot or two for the operator as well. Thank you and good luck!

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I am actually perfectly content with Eximus units as they are but if they have to be changed, I think it might be interesting if their Overguard health is weak to their faction/enemy type rather than universally being weak to Viral/Slash. This could at least encourage players to shake up their builds a bit. Certainly they should be weaker to Amp/Operator damage; not one-tapped as that trivializes them too much but I think Operators should be able to strip them away at least as fast as a strong end-game weapon does currently. Basically rather than directly making them easier/nerfing them, give the player more ways to beat them. A lot of the "CC frames are dead" complaints don't hold much merit and I've not actually seen anyone demonstrating this at all, meanwhile I've seen plenty of people playing Nyx, Vauban etc. at higher level content and doing just fine. I have to wonder how many of the complainers actually play said frames.

 

I'm fine with Void sling mostly, but as a big Vazarin enthusiast it would be nice if applying Protective Sling on yourself was a little less tedious, like applying automatically after Void Dash if you melee after a sling. Currently you need to pop to the opposite side of where you want to go so you can dash through your frame, aim your sling, and then transfer back. Not terribly demanding but it feels a bit tedious compared to how much easier other Operator trees are to get maximum use of their abilities. I'd be very happy to have omni-directional movement back, for sure. 

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what void sling needs is to stay in place while you hold the button. make it drain energy while in use but let us float in place a little bit like zephyr

it's hard as hell to hit those void balls angels make because aiming is so slow and you don't go where you aim anyway so aiming and accounting for arc in such a small timeframe is hard even with maxed waybounds

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

- but what’s next?

Appreciate the heads up.

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

In regards to Void Sling, we’re experimenting with directional changes such as strafing (sideways mobility) and backwards slings to allow more movement options. Strafe and back slings were tested during Void Sling’s development, but at the time we felt having similar directional control to bullet jump was important. Community feedback tells us that the more mobility options the better, and we are working on changes that meet that desire.

This is good. (And I appreciate sharing the rationale.)
Not gonna lie, still not a fan of Sling - Dash was much snappier. But I can live with it.
And directional Dash, while not something I use habitually, was something I did feel the loss of.

Also,

1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Make Void Sling a straight trajectory instead of curve. Make the Hitbox of the Indicator center mass, instead of the feet. And for gods sake, actually make the indicator of Void Sling the actual Operator Hitbox instead of it's own tinier one.

^ This.

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally we’re reviewing the code to resolve some Transference latency issues

Please god yes.

One of the first hotfixes improved the problem (from ~1 sec to ~0.5 at a guess), but it still brings the flow to a complete stop.

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard.

CC immunity aside (since that seems to be a selling point of the mechanic, despite how awful it can be - Thrax bumrushing Zariman MDef comes to mind), my problems with Overguard are:
1) It's affected by Viral procs, further cementing Vir/Slash as the universal solution to Damage 2.0.
2) The delta between Overguard health and Eximus base health is huge, and the delta between Eximus eHP and everything else is similarly huge.


 

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

...

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

Please don't force us to use our mod slots, arcane slots, etc as bandaid fixes for what should be base functionality. That and adding grind (21 arcanes per) to fix what you yourselves admit are outstanding issues with the game.

^ This.
(Also, if new-mid players vs. Eximus is a problem, this would do nothing to alleviate that.)

 

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Much has been taken into account for future releases, so that we can avoid the bumps we saw during the initial launch.  

Respectfully, and I do mean this respectfully, this sounds nice, and you might even mean it.
But in practice, what you say and what we see (and I won't elaborate unless asked to, purely because the point here isn't to drag you) doesn't match up.

Actions speak louder than words, and experience says 'take this statement with a fair bit of salt'.

Edited by Chroia
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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

We would also like to apologize for the frustrations many of these bugs caused for our community. Much has been taken into account for future releases, so that we can avoid the bumps we saw during the initial launch.  

Thank you for this post. I hope this changes things moving forward (how bugs are organized, Dev Workshops, how Feedback is handled/valued, etc.).

However, players have heard this tune for many years now: Empyrean after the Game Awards, The Old Blood, Scarlet Spear, and even as far back as when The War Within was split into 3 parts with Lunaro, Specters of the Rail, and The War Within.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

This is a "Please don't do this" moment. 

If this is going to occur, then please take this into heavy consideration, please... 

Add more arcane slots to OPERATORS and or DRIFTERS. Not to amps, to the actual beings we control!

If you intend to add more arcanes for movement, you are indefinitely locking us out of the use of other vital arcanes that are for our operators/drifters as well as toward our own Warframes. Please reconsider such, and take other paths into consideration. 

Maybe allow us to perform these movement changes WITHOUT arcanes, which would be better in the grand scheme of things. 

Also, still upset about the loss of Void Blast, but I'm just shouting into the void at this point. 

Plenty of people will agree, disagree, and or actually come up with better alternatives than this, but I can assure you one thing... 

You're making the players who have been playing for years on end dislike these extreme changes, including me. 

Edited by Halo
Emphasis / Alternatives
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I would like to point out some problems:
1) In the mission "Tide Void", when asked to take the large orbs, why are the orbs dropped by the slain eximus not also counted? That would be great as a thing, since the mission takes too long.
2) Still in the "Tides Void" missions, wouldn't it be better if the spheres dropped by the killed enemies are automatically taken from the vacuum of our companions? And please, lower the floating orbs, because in the long run it is difficult to resist the mission, as it takes too long to reach them, kill the enemies and survive.
3) In the "Armageddon Void" missions, some enemies, if not a few, who should be in A or B, go to the relic to be defended, and playing stands alone does not help.
4) Can you shoulder the mission / indicator time when you want to go kill an angel? Whether or not it is required by the mission, because it is frustrating to have to look after the mission and in the meantime go and kill the angel, because it is required by the mission itself, so you make life easier for everyone.
5) In the "Armageddon Void" mission, can you teleport the angel in front of the relic is already in front of it? This would avoid having to go to point A or B, thus risking to have the relic destroy. The players who play alone must also be taken into account.
6) After completing Zariman's Mobile Defense, red markers appear to enemies, as if in an extermination.
7) When a Thrax Legatus appears and summons the 3 ghosts, if you perform a Void Sling on them and have the arcane lockdown equipped, it disappears and starts attacking continuously. The only way to escape is to move away a little and go back, so as to make it visible again, but evoking the 3 ghosts again.
8) Please put the void dash back on, let me explain: you can leave the Void Sling when jumping twice when with the operator / spoiler, and the Void Dash when crouching and jumping, so everyone is happy.
9) Please weaken the eximus a little, they are too resistant. Make them immune to CC.

I hope I have not left out anything.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

In regards to Void Sling, we’re experimenting with directional changes such as strafing (sideways mobility) and backwards slings to allow more movement options.

Glad to see some of the feedback reached you. If a boost to distance speed isn't going to be implemented, then mobility improvements is a step in the right direction. There's also some thorough feedback in this thread on improving the aim functionality of Sling. I won't reiterate, but you would benefit by reading them.

 

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

Please DO NOT DO THIS. This is a bandaid solution to a problem that should never have been a problem to begin with. Eximus Overshield is scripted as weak to Void damage. This perk should be base stats for amps/beam. Give the amps increased damaged against overshield that scales against enemy level (so it will still be effective at SP Zariman). 

The goal of this update was to incorporate Operators into the gameplay. No one will farm for an arcane and waste limited arcane slots to be more effective against Overshield when using a primary weapon is faster. 

Moreover, adding an arcane that will likely be locked into Zariman is ineffective. Low MR who actually need extra damage to Overshield won't be able to earn it, and high MR have other methods to fight Overshield that leaves the Operator out entirely.

Don't bandaid the problem, heal the wound. 

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The new Void Sling greatly reduces movement flow. (note, I didn't say "removed")

We went from a bulletjump - aim glide - void dash spam - bulletjump to a bulletjump - aim glide - WAIT - Void Sling - bulletjump. Without mentioning the cooldown between each Sling. In my few years of playing what kept me going was the insane movement flow and "combos" you can get with enough experience. Now, not only the Void Sling is shorter than the old Void Dash but you also have to cope with the "perks" of the Sling. I personally found myself using the operator a lot less in general missions after the update, while obviously on Zariman I have to use it anyway. The objective of making players use the OP more definitely didn't work on me...

...If it matters, I heavily use Nyx with the Arcane Helmet and all the movement thingies just to enjoy some fast paced action.

I'm very disappointed in this part of the operator, but at least the new focus nodes are fine (from the few I could test so far).

REMOVE THE COOLDOWNS

 

As for the new eximus units, I like the changes except for the new Energy Leech Eximus - you really did have to give us mag procs did you? Apart from that, Overguard has potential, however I feel like it's a fair bit too strong to deal with - I usually level my stuff using Equinox on Adaro, and I often find myself at a huge disadvantage because of the ability-immunity and lowly-modded gear I'd be leveling. I feel like Overguard could very well stay, but it needs to take less damage to deplete.

AND PLEASE, do NOT make an Operator Arcane for Overguards, that's such a massive no from me.

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hace 2 horas, o0Despair0o dijo:

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I've been here since 2015. Over 2000 hours played.

You guys didn't improve your updates in terms of bugs one bit.

And I've been also here since 2015, but with 7500 hours registered on steam on my main account.

They did improve with every single update they released, if you take in consideration how much more complex each update got, they improved a LOT.

If you wanna blame them for something the only real thing we can say is that being 2022 we still dont have a PERMANENT test cluster/server where we can give faster feedback so the updates come out clean, but what you're saying here, sir, is pure bs.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback. We understand that doesn’t provide you with much to go off of but please know we’re committed to making good on the feedback we’ve been given. Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

Why not simply fix it and then move onto Arcanes? Honestly it seems as though DE is actively avoiding very obvious problems within the game's balance and attempts to fix via bandaids. The Overgaurd system in its current iteration had zero chance of being received well by either those looking for a challenging, balanced, lategame, or those who feel the game's current difficulty is sufficient. Unsurprisingly, that's how it played out.

Edited by Silligoose
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2 hours ago, Lord_Harkkon said:

The game is heading in the right direction please don't waste it by listening to AOE and melee spammers.

Overguard didn't fix AoE spam at all tho, it merely amplified it even further

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Very glad to hear Void Sling is getting some directional mobility. I'm guessing it'll work something like rolling, which can strafe/backflip as well? Interested to see where that goes!

So Overguard (OG from now on) then... It was discouraging to see amps perform so poorly against OG compared to regular weapons when it was touted as the main counter to it - a means to encourage using the Operator and Warframe in-tandem. I figured there would have been a large damage multiplier for Void against OG, but it if there is it doesn't scale remotely well (partly because AMPS don't scale remotely well, arcanes or nay).

Adding new arcanes, especially if they are the 5-rank types as with the new Zariman arcanes, is not a great solution. Cynical me wants to say that it encourages yet more grinding round the millstone and putting the onus on us instead of the devs to fix the problem. Optimist me wants to hope the effects will be more interesting than additional damage (at that point, just increase the multiplier or base damage of amps!).

No word on the CC immunity either, which is a huge shame. I'm biased as all get out of course but there have been a vocal majority that do not like this feature for how it further shunts CC-focused frames; this sentiment has been repeated many times to no avail. I hope that changes soon.

 

That should cover it for now. See you at 1.1, then.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Hello, Tenno!

It’s been almost 2 weeks since the launch of Angels of the Zariman on all platforms. The team has deployed 6+ Hotfixes and digested handfuls of feedback threads - but what’s next?

While these individual Hotfixes were needed to address crucial bugs, we have larger plans committed to addressing bigger feedback areas in our next major Update: Angels of the Zariman 1.1 (final name pending). We would also like to apologize for the frustrations many of these bugs caused for our community. Much has been taken into account for future releases, so that we can avoid the bumps we saw during the initial launch.  

We will be entering console Certification for 1.1, meaning all the issues or changes from the initial Angels of the Zariman launch that require a code integration will go live with this update. This includes fixes for bugs such as the Voidplume 0/8 pickup indicator, Zariman Steel Path completion Inbox not being sent, and more. 

 

What are we committing to in 1.1?

Our objective for Angels of the Zariman 1.1 is to address top feedback points that required more development time, careful consideration, and code changes to implement.

In regards to Void Sling, we’re experimenting with directional changes such as strafing (sideways mobility) and backwards slings to allow more movement options. Strafe and back slings were tested during Void Sling’s development, but at the time we felt having similar directional control to bullet jump was important. Community feedback tells us that the more mobility options the better, and we are working on changes that meet that desire. Additionally we’re reviewing the code to resolve some Transference latency issues and considering other tweaks to Operators. 

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback. We understand that doesn’t provide you with much to go off of but please know we’re committed to making good on the feedback we’ve been given. Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

 

We also plan to release the remaining 2 Incarnon weapons that were shown on Devstream #160, as well as some other goodies!

Angels of the Zariman 1.1 is our commitment to the community in addressing the feedback from the original Angels of the Zariman launch. Our next Devstream will speak further to these changes - stay tuned! 

 

Thanks!

Looking forward to it. I think overguard has promise, it just needs some more interesting mechanics around it to encourage more varied gameplay rather than reinforcing the zoom and boom meta.

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2 hours ago, Nyoah said:

i only see the 3 incarnon weapons in that post, what are the other 2?

They're adding 2 more so it'll be 5 incarnon weapons when the update goes live.

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