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Next Update Post-Angels of the Zariman


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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, FSK41 said:

Unless you planning to do 2h survival with banshee on SP i dont see how banshee has a problem in Steel Path

if you die just revive, you have rolling guard, arcane aegis and the new unairu waybound as well, if u keep dying i  have a fix for you: stop dying

Okay, you are suggesting tools that grant me literal invincibility to solve her awful health pool. This isn't a personal issue I have of being bad on frames with no life. It's a criticism of this game's stupid balance. How do I ever feel threatened by enemy damage again if I just bypass it with invincibility??

Edited by VhwatGoes
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard

Please.

PLEASE.

Stop doubling down on these bad design decisions!

For a game with a lot of choice, we certainly don't have a lot of viable choices for endgame these days:

  • AoE rules supreme, due to improper balancing of numbers. Single target weapons' useability are VERY niche in usecase now.
  • Eximus not only generally made CC a worse option as a whole, it particularly killed off so many already-niched CC-options:
    • Mind Control was already pretty crap as a skill, but was almost considered useful when catching Eximus with it. Gone.
    • Parazon Mercy killings being a tool to dispose of Eximus units? More or less gone now (due to the amount of damage and DoTs one tend to burst onto Eximus, and with the vast majority of their survivability being on the Overguard's side, once they reach Mercy-able status, they basicly instadie anyway from overkill damage, especially by DoTs)
  • Not only does the CC-immunity reinforce the damagemeta, it also re-reinforces the braindead tankiness metas (something that was less needed prior to the Eximus rework, since CC at least was an option before - but CC was generally not as used due to it having a higher need for attention, in contrast to tank-options being generally far easier to handle).
    • Sidenote: Not being able to CC actual minibosses so easily (like Acolytes, Liches and such) is more justifiable and makes sense, since they are rare but supposed to be a genuinely powerful threat. But eximi aren't rare - yet they are now often far deadlier than the actual minibosses. That's just absurd!
  • Viral+Slash is overly meta due to the incredibly poor balancing of damagetypes and armor. Playing rock-paper-scissors in the arsenal is not particularly fun, imo. And then Overguard came along and made Viral even more meta (since it's the only status that amplifies damage versus Overguard, go figure)

Just... PLEASE deal with these issues. Please reign in AoE, at least a little bit. Please make CC a minor option against Eximus units. Please make armor less oppressive + all elements more generally viable.

 

Edited by Azamagon
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb VhwatGoes:

Okay, you are suggesting tools that grant me literal invincibility to solve her awful health pool. This isn't a personal issue I have of being bad on frames with no life. It's a criticism of this game's stupid balance. How do I ever feel threatened by enemy damage again if I just bypass it with invincibility??

If you dont use tools to survive then how can u complain to die?

Arent you asking her to be able to ,,tank'' damage on Steel Path level?  Isnt that  invicibility in low levels as well? 

If we make our EHP so big that enemies at level 500 cant kill us easily whats the point of them having damage in the first place

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hi meg ^-^ just my 2 sense i like the way void sling works and being able to move with it better sounds grate only being able to go forward kinda sucks. the 2nd amp slot is a good idea i just wish all the operator DPS didnt get removed ie zenurik lighting damage etc. also can we address the focus grind feeling so slow O.o? and can we add 3 and 4 powers to operators or let us slot the 1s and 2s from other schools?

thanks for your time 

~parnmkie

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4 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

With more gameplay-relevant customisations coming to operators, is there a chance of having operator loadout slots? Not just for operator appearance, but for the Amp/arcane setup.

Yes please, this would be amazing! Operator loadouts seem like they wouldn't be the worst to code in (as we have other loadouts, even for their appearances, already), and would be a HUGE QoL improvement given all the new Op gear additions - and this implication of even more additions in the future.

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4 hours ago, FSK41 said:

Can we pls keep some goddamn challenge in the game? If we decrease the Overguard CC resistance increase something else to compensate, mainly HP and possibly speed or other threatening mechanics. It was such a good step to force the melee spammers to use more brain so dont go back to easymode please

Well put!

Don't nerf the first real and successful challenge addition in... well, ages...

If you feel that you just can't avoid having to offer a crutch to complaining players, make it an optional one with a cost (an arcane might be a good idea). But the whole "I can't handle enemies if I can 't easily CC all of them"-idea really is silly, when considered from an "all-powerful Tenno angle".

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Just now, FSK41 said:

If you dont use tools to survive then how can u complain to die?

Arent you asking her to be able to ,,tank'' damage on Steel Path level?  Isnt that  invicibility in low levels as well? 

If we make our EHP so big that enemies at level 500 cant kill us easily whats the point of them having damage in the first place

Lmao I am not asking for face tanking into levels 500+, this is a design issue where some frames have the privilege of face-tanking or straight-up ignoring damage while others have to clown around with these invincibility rituals, which most frames need to do.

I'm only making this argument because people are complaining about CC not working on eximus!! It makes CC frames actually threatened by enemy damage. This could make some actually fun gameplay, but instead they are faced with the irrelevant health and shield values unless, again like you keep repeating, they pick one of the 4 simple tricks to never die again.

It wouldn't be invincibility on low levels if they balanced the freaking damage formula for enemies. As you know, frame life doesn't scale with level the same way enemy damage does. It's possible to make it a more gradual challenge, which is what I am wishing for.

I hate living too easy, and hate dying too easy. I want health to be relevant. Video games are supposed to offer challenges. Is that too much to ask?

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Just use the test cluster more often. I honestly do not care about spoilers if that means I'll get a update working properly. Having to spend a week of frustration until the game is barely working is not my idea of fun, just let your major updates stay one or two weeks being tested before release. It's not like the current plot development in minor-medium quests is top tier anyway, Warframe narrative is in decline since The Deadlock Protocol given some plot holes, rushed development and lack of cohesiveness with each new lore drop. So being spoiled isn't going to ruin my gameplay or fun in the game. 

About Overguard, giving them complete CC immunity is not the way to go. But I agree that making the enemies completely void of defenses against Bastille for example isn't ideal, so maybe instead of 100% immunity to hard CC a simple slow down while being affected by these abilities would give everyone a fair chance of fighting. Also, to deal with the AoE meta, make so that for the weapons to strip overguard there needs to be a direct hit on the enemy. Or maybe just nerf AoE altogether, I'm getting pretty bored in every mission that I'm with a Wukong nuking every room anyway. 

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb VhwatGoes:

Lmao I am not asking for face tanking into levels 500+, this is a design issue where some frames have the privilege of face-tanking or straight-up ignoring damage while others have to clown around with these invincibility rituals, which most frames need to do.

I'm only making this argument because people are complaining about CC not working on eximus!! It makes CC frames actually threatened by enemy damage. This could make some actually fun gameplay, but instead they are faced with the irrelevant health and shield values unless, again like you keep repeating, they pick one of the 4 simple tricks to never die again.

It wouldn't be invincibility on low levels if they balanced the freaking damage formula for enemies. As you know, frame life doesn't scale with level the same way enemy damage does. It's possible to make it a more gradual challenge, which is what I am wishing for.

I hate living too easy, and hate dying too easy. I want health to be relevant. Video games are supposed to offer challenges. Is that too much to ask?

*I hate living too easy, and hate dying too easy. I want health to be relevant. Video games are supposed to offer challenges. Is that too much to ask?* It does now rejoice. 

 

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Posted (edited)

I hope the overguard feature remains relevant. Abilities and or arcanes to help combat it will be welcomed however, I hope its nothing like one shot to remove it completely type of feature. Also curious why the angels and Acolytes do not have a slight amount of it added to their health bars while in their physical forms?

Edited by EdDiesel
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13 minutes ago, just-JC said:

Just use the test cluster more often. I honestly do not care about spoilers if that means I'll get a update working properly. Having to spend a week of frustration until the game is barely working is not my idea of fun, just let your major updates stay one or two weeks being tested before release. It's not like the current plot development in minor-medium quests is top tier anyway, Warframe narrative is in decline since The Deadlock Protocol given some plot holes, rushed development and lack of cohesiveness with each new lore drop. So being spoiled isn't going to ruin my gameplay or fun in the game. 

About Overguard, giving them complete CC immunity is not the way to go. But I agree that making the enemies completely void of defenses against Bastille for example isn't ideal, so maybe instead of 100% immunity to hard CC a simple slow down while being affected by these abilities would give everyone a fair chance of fighting. Also, to deal with the AoE meta, make so that for the weapons to strip overguard there needs to be a direct hit on the enemy. Or maybe just nerf AoE altogether, I'm getting pretty bored in every mission that I'm with a Wukong nuking every room anyway. 

I wouldn't ask for a nerf to AOE weapons. Instead maybe enemies with overguard can have higher resistance to radial damage, not direct damage (e.g. radial damage fall off 90%) from AOE weapons.

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Might as well throw in my 2 cents here:

 

I like the idea of void sling, especially being able to control the distance with which I travel out to. With the recent change, void sling is so fast, it feels like I only have 2 options: short sling, and long sling. In-between happens so fast I'm not sure if I have the reaction time to get a medium sling. I also support strafe-sling and backwards-sling.

 

In regards to overguard: I fully support increased time to kill on eximus units. Besides...with the right build, they die almost immediately upon being put into the crosshairs anyway. So the time to kill feels okay to me. The problem is that they are completely immune to crowd control. I think crowd control deserve to be valuable in some respect when dealing with eximus units, without necessarily disable the AI completely because that's just busted. I'm not sure how you would deal with this but just want to toss this feedback up here.

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3 minutes ago, EdDiesel said:

I wouldn't ask for a nerf to AOE weapons. Instead maybe enemies with overguard can have higher resistance to radial damage, not direct damage (e.g. radial damage fall off 90%) from AOE weapons.

My problem with the current AoE weapons and how they work is that I feel like I HAVE to use them if I want to have any chance of actually killing stuff, otherwise I'm either slowing down my squad, being useless or helpless against the enemies. I really enjoy hitscan weapons, but while I'm killing one enemy I would have killed 20 with a single shot of my Kuva Ogris. The same with Overguard, while I'm trying my best to keep my aim at the enemy to deal with the Overguard I know that if I had a AoE weapon I wouldn't need to either aim or to be static while shooting. Basically, it feels like I'm being punished for trying to use my aim when I know that if I used a AoE weapon my performance would be much better and I wouldn't slow down the squad as much. I just want more options, there is almost 50 frames and hundreds of weapons, I want to use most of them. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, VhwatGoes said:

snip

This all sounds wonderful, as for the shield gating point...
I believe the way shield-gating scales should be changed, because even if they change it to a %DR and not full invulnerability, you're encouraged to have lower shield values to abuse this.

Here are my proposed shield-gate changes.
Shield-gate Changes:

  • Shield gate now works off of a charge system.
    • shield gate is consumed upon shields breaking and must be recharged
      • can only be consumed if it's charged
    • shield gate recharges upon meeting the following criteria
      • out of combat for 1.5s (partially depleted shields)
      • out of combat for 3.0s (fully depleted shields)
        • getting hit while invulnerable still counts as being in combat and resets the timer
           
  • Shield gate duration now scales.
    • base duration of 100ms, increased to 500ms if shields reach 100%
    • duration is increased by 2ms for each point of maximum shields
    • if shields and overshields are depleted in one damage instance, shield-gate duration
      is increased by current overshields
       
  • Shield regeneration now works differently.
    • shields recharge upon meeting the following criteria
      • out of combat for 1.5s (partially depleted shields)
      • out of combat for 3.0s (fully depleted shields)
        • getting hit while invulnerable still counts as being in combat and resets the timer
      • shields recharge at a base rate of 40% maximum shields per second
         
  • Shield-gate now grants 95% damage reduction instead of 100%.
     
  • Enemy / AI / non-player shield-gating has a base duration of 250ms that does not scale with anything
    • this basically refers to anything that has a form of level based shield scaling, specters, enemies, AI allies, etc
Edited by bnuy
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4 hours ago, FSK41 said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback.

Can we pls keep some goddamn challenge in the game? If we decrease the Overguard CC resistance increase something else to compensate, mainly HP and possibly speed or other threatening mechanics. It was such a good step to force the melee spammers to use more brain so dont go back to easymode please

Personally, I just want them to lower how much health Overguard has overall, but more specifically in sub-30 content where new players might not have the overpowered weapons mid to high MRs have. I'm not even sure they should appear on Mercury at all, outside of Steelpath.

That being said, I also think that pretty much every Grineer with energy shields, as oppose to physical shields, should have Overguard instead. I also think maybe certain bosses should have Overguard to prevent quick death by DoTs (like kril).

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

What are we committing to in 1.1?

Our objective for Angels of the Zariman 1.1 is to address top feedback points that required more development time, careful consideration, and code changes to implement.

In regards to Void Sling, we’re experimenting with directional changes such as strafing (sideways mobility) and backwards slings to allow more movement options. Strafe and back slings were tested during Void Sling’s development, but at the time we felt having similar directional control to bullet jump was important. Community feedback tells us that the more mobility options the better, and we are working on changes that meet that desire. Additionally we’re reviewing the code to resolve some Transference latency issues and considering other tweaks to Operators. 

I hope you're going to bring back some of the speed/range and accuracy that the old void dash had then because sling is just so slow to use and often as not, due to the way it travels, ends up missing the target that I was aiming for (it still feels clunky).... accuracy is needed for the angel fights, it shouldn't take multiple slings to hit the orbs when I know for a fact from old events/missions that I could hit them with ease with the old void dash.

 

Or maybe you could make it so the old mechanic of (keyboard) ctrl+space gives us void dash and a 'new' space first option gives players sling instead....

 

5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback. We understand that doesn’t provide you with much to go off of but please know we’re committed to making good on the feedback we’ve been given. Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

As to the arcanes... please no more band aids for poor design decisions... the simple fact is the overshield scaling is too high for the damage that the operator can do with an amp in a reasonable time frame.  That and cc resistance still sucks.

 

 

Oh and nothing about focus school costs either....

 

Edited by LSG501
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I like most of the changes but I do have some suggestions:
 

  • Improve mobility while in Void Sling - I use an Xbox controller for play and hitting the Angel Orbs or  enemies in general with void sling abilities is not fun
  • When exiting a Warframe into Spoiler mode there should be some kind of affect that reflects the school the player is using - maybe an AoE proc related to the focus school?
  • When entering into Spoiler mode have our first ability auto-selected - this would be a QoL for Xbox controller users
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5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback. We understand that doesn’t provide you with much to go off of but please know we’re committed to making good on the feedback we’ve been given. Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

With this, I've had an idea with Overguard so that Void damage can consistently work against it in higher levels (and make operators useful in higher level content). is make void damage function similarly against Overguard in the sense of how Shattering Impact works against base armor values of armored enemies. Just a thought for scaling adjustments!

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Can we have any improvements on Void Armageddon? More like it feels Boringeddon. 

I didn't expected but it feels slower than a defense.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Voltage said:

Like Scarlet Spear?

Haha xD yeah, i mainly referred to my personal experience, which admittedly, i'm pretty lucky when it comes to bugs (except RJ launch, regardless of how fun it was and still is). Additionally, DE's track record regarding bugs isnt a stark black and white scale, but there exists a nuance of in-between shades of gray; some updates will have more, some less. There will be outliers (like Scarlet Spear), and others will be "relatively" bug free. Again, from what I, myself, can observe as a player.

Edited by Kaggelos
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