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Next Update Post-Angels of the Zariman


[DE]Megan

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7 minutes ago, MegaAbyss said:

I think they should remove overguard from the main starchart & only put it on high level Eximus enemies in Kuva Fortress steel path, steel path on the main system, The Zariman, The Zariman steel path, The Void steel path, Arbitration & open world missions in steel path cause thoughs are suppose to be harder missions.

then make the names Different put a star or name it different
Example: Eximus
Example steel path: Evolved Eximus

Then only put OverGuard on the Evolved Eximus Enemies.

I'd definitely second this or something like it. Overguard at present is at its most impactful in areas that weren't supposed to be challenging, against players that were not looking for a serious challenge. Limiting it to dedicated harder areas such as the steel path would force more forethought and strategy for players that wanted an advanced challenge, without detracting from the fun flow of easier stages.

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Like a few others I would like to know what, if any, changes are planned for Gyre. Her kit is fun and is a welcome addition to all the gunframes we've been getting (Caliban, Yareli, Xaku, etc), but with the fix to her Rotorswell she doesn't have alot of kill potential on her own once levels reach around 80 or so, and she's forced to rely on AoE weapons like Amprex or Bramma to kill or start cleaning up kills. Plus with the addition of Overguard, her main source of survivability (Crowd Control/Kill Potential) is severely weakened to the point that any amount of damage at level 80+ is going to kill her. It feels like she was released without regards to changes made to the Exilus and other Warframe hampering sources like Nullifiers.

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If you want us to engage with Overguard as you envisioned either let us mod our Amps like other users already have suggested OR let Overguard have a fixed amount of health regardless of enemy level so Amps in their current state can deal with them. As it stands now OG scales pretty fast with enemy level yet operators still have the same weak weaponry dealing the same "base" damage...

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9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback. We understand that doesn’t provide you with much to go off of but please know we’re committed to making good on the feedback we’ve been given. Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

The problem with Overguard starts the second you start playing the game. New players will not have access to the operator form and by extension Operator Arcanes.  Furthermore, there are a ton of problems with using Arcanes to solve this problem. How Will it be implemented? Do you think this will be a viable option across every level of gameplay? will there be other measures taken?

Also is there a way that you could shorten long cast abilities and replace full body abilities (i.e.  Harrrow's Penance) with a faster variant that is also upper body only? Several Warframe abilities lock you down to use. Even with Maudurai or Natural Talent, it often results in a free hit for health and energy Eximus that can get you killed.

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The biggest thing that made me sad was the missed opportunity for functional furniture when giving us an actual house. I know it would be a lot of work with action nodes on every seat, But one of the new characters literally get up and sits back down. I'd be fine if only the operators and new war spoiler character could use them but I want warframe to be better and not do what alot of games do where chair like thing plus sit emote equals good enough.

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I appreciate the follow up on this. I don't know if this feedback of mine is particularly useful, but I like the idea behind Void Sling a lot. It minimizes a lot of mistakes for long distance dashing. The loss of directional dashes was dearly missed, thank you for considering that again.

I don't think I speak for everyone, so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt in my attempt to do so. I think the perceived issues with Void Sling vs Void Dash are mostly involving the light beacon itself when you're not trying to aim it. It's absolutely wonderful when you take the time to aim it at a long distance, and it does resolve the issue of frequent player mistakes when trying to cover long distances without snagging on geometry. I've noticed that sometimes when I do get stuck on level geometry, I just teleport to the beacon. I think I understand the intention behind Void Sling.

The clunkiness arose when players are not trying to aim with it. When you charge Void Dash, the delay of the light beacon preventing an immediate traversal isn't an issue. It seems like you're being made to wait a minimum amount of time before you sling, but if you already take that time to charge it and aim, you instantly fly when you finally do yeet yourself forward, you actually don't have to wait because the wait already occurred.

When you're tapping the input to dash, you wait the minimum amount of time, involving the beacon spawning and telegraphing where you will go. This subtle delay makes the instant tap dashes feel worse than the fully charged slings. What people claim to be 'too slow' I think is actually 'too unresponsive'. When you're tap dashing, you are trying to move 'right now'. So the delay actually hurts the sensation there, I think. But when you're trying to go the distance, the delay isn't noticeable because you're taking the time to aim it.

What it seems to me is, there needs to be way to skip the delay for tap inputs. If the intention is to telegraph where you will go so you can correct your aim, tap inputs are too short of a time for humans to react to - to be able to make any meaningful adjustments. Perhaps coding a way to check when you tap the input Void Sling rather than hold it to allow you to skip waiting for the beacon to spawn? I can't imagine this would be easy, so I'd understand if it doesn't happen. It's essentially a buffer-input check, but one taking into account reaction time and player intention. Fine tuning it would also take time. However, I think it would give players the best of both worlds if it was accomplished.

You'd be able to instantly dash and strafe when you need to move immediately, even if the distance is short and not as far as void sling, but when you need to take the time to aim to get those precise dashes to things far off in the distance, Void Sling would provide much more control than old Dash Could. The fact you seem to teleport to the beacon in these instances has resolved a few 'getting stuck on geometry' issues. It's so close to being perfect. You're all doing great.

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Overguard is one of the best additions to the game in years.

It would be even better if the Overguard "shield" was completely explosion resistant, and instead took more damage from direct hits and select Warframe damage-dealing abilities.

The CC-complaints are mostly illogical, since CC still works just as before on most enemies. The only reason for complaining seems to be that players are missing the huge crutch of being able to lock absolutely everything down and play passively. And that is done by pushing CC-builds into extreme territory, disregarding Health, Armor, Shields and other "survivability" mods, due to CC being so extremely powerful. Now that a few tankier enemies can continue coming at them they are suddenly unable to handle the situation. And even worse, they might actually have to move to avoid a negative effect! An effect they could lock down at safe distance with the old CC.

All this is a bit silly, and the problem is with the players and the builds they use. There isn't a warframe that can't handle Eximus units with Overguard, and there are hundreds of weapons that can handle them fairly easily. But the one big change is that you now have to play more on your toes, and play more actively, you can't just stand in one place unmoving while relying on your overpowered CC.

But it would be totally silly if DE were to remove the Overguard mechanic. A much better decision would be to develop an alternative "baby-level Warframe" for players that want to feel über-powerful without any relevant threats. Or add a "can't die"-mode, so they can feel perfectly safe while playing.

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Glad to hear void sling is getting looked at for its immense lack of 360 horizontal movement. Please, all I ask is that two critical things be kept in mind: 

1.  Speed of Enacting Movement. How long does it take for an operator to avoid incoming damage because of how long it takes to void sling out of danger. Is it fast enough to avoid a big incoming shot?

2 Omni directional movement capability. What direction can the operator quickly go to get out of a bad situation? Being able to move in more than just the direction you currently see is pivotal to surviving Steel Path and other high end enemy engagement areas. 

 

The work done to make our operators what they should be has been wonderful thus far. (aside from the initial misstep of void sling) Operators (us) power the frames we command with our own energy. When the situation calls for the emergence of our enraged and (should be) overpowered Operator (or admittedly the derpy looking Drifter) we should be allowed to ensure our Operators can hang as long as our modded frames. (at least be useful at that level)

 

As for Overguard, I didn't know that was a thing. I learned the "Operators straight up can't kill elites in high end content so i'll just whack it with a frame" mentality and moved on. Would be neat if they could. Would be lame if they required already important, AND in use, arcane slots to do so. Thanks again DE for listening to a neverending *@##$fest and really trying to make people happy with your efforts. Keep it up!

Lets go wreak havoc on the cosmos and make space pastries. (what? I get hungry after killing 1.200 enemies in a single mission)

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Thanks for the heads up!

I don't know if it will be read, but I'd love to see these for Angels of Zariman 1.1:

  • Vazarin and Naramon schools are still bad. By design, not by numbers. Please make them fun to use and actually useful!
  • Please reduce the damage multipliers for Madurai as a whole and increase the damage multipliers for other schools. No school can compete with Madurai at all for anything damage-related, not just in Eidolons.
  • Please make Power Transfer do something to Status and/or Raw Damage amps as well. Right now, Propa Bracer is the only actual good one for damage.
  • If you are going to allow us to equip 2 arcanes per amp, please allow us to equip one to the **Prism** and the other to the **Scaffold**. And we need a rebalance on them. Virtuos Shadow is the only good amp arcane, **especially** with Madurai.

Thank you for the effort put in this update! I overall liked it a lot.

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I know some of the functionality being moved from host to client is why this void sling thing is being pushed so hard but I'd take a meter of actual void dash back over any of this sling crap, it just feels awful. Coupled with the new delays, somebody compared it to trying to run through a swimming pool and even with all the tweaks it still feels that way.

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10 hours ago, FSK41 said:Can we pls keep some goddamn challenge in the game? If we decrease the Overguard CC resistance increase something else to compensate, mainly HP and possibly speed or other threatening mechanics. It was such a good step to force the melee spammers to use more brain so dont go back to easymode please

Interesting. The usual “ranged primer+melee co” has been by far my most reliable way of taking out Eximus. Assuming someone with kuva AoE spam doesn’t get it first. 

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On 2022-05-11 at 6:54 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

I'm selling you a car with square wheels. No I will not fix the issue with that, but you can buy normal tires for a premium. Nuts not included.

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11 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

Please no more mandatory mods. If anything, you should fix void damage to have that functionality instead. Possibly allowing Void Status effect to deal percentage based damage overtime to overguard.

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10 hours ago, MegaAbyss said:

dude press the melee button wile in operator it cuts the wait time down the middle

It does not, I've tested this extensively. I keep hearing this myth and the one where if you double jump instead of void-jump that it's faster, if there's any difference it's so miniscule as not to be noticable.

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Dormizone is a plat sink, remove that S#&$ or do something about it, it's not rewarding at all and never will be in this state. Not even worth the grind to get that damn stupid key that should have been offered when reaching rank 5 hold-fast.

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11 hours ago, FSK41 said:

allow me to rephrase: The genius people spamming melee on enemies affected by gloom so you can watch them die while eating popcorn* 

It is good that CC looses some effectiveness , it is not like it was entirely useless just not on that 2 enemies in the map

I had hoped that DOTs dont work on the overguard 

This is not true at all, the people who are spamming melee, or big explosive guns, do not need to use gloom at all, they're on tanky frames that generally don't have to interact with enemy abilities, they can just ignore them.

Gloom enables frames that want to do something different for the most part, because builds that make gloom good make Warframe powers good for the most part, gloom users are usually there to use Warframe abilities to kill things,, if all they wanted to do was shoot explosive weapons or smash melee, there's no need to use gloom at all, just be tank swing sword and shoot boom, gloom and shield gating have been patching up the squishiness that entails playing a non tank frame and building towards using their abilities, making the CC abilities not work on enemies just encourages more melee and aoe spam.

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