Next Update Post-Angels of the Zariman

[worldnamer]

Most people won't know a good design decision when it hits them in the face. Many of the changes in Zariman were really positive and overall the result was net positive.

There were some admittedly some changes that weren't as polished as they should be, but that's not really a surprise. What is surprising is how fast DE iterated and improved the biggest pain points of the new system.

Adding back in the reverse direction to void sling, while not a particular pain point of mine, seems to be a good step in the right direction to overall improving the mobility options in the game. Adding new amp arcanes is a step in the right direction which is amp mods - something that is glaringly missing from the game and relegates amps to second class weaponry, so this addition is looking positive, at least. The exchange of speed for distance variability and changing the movement dynamics of void dash to void sling was interesting and I think serves to emphasize that operator mode isn't meant to be a transitory one-off where you get one small benefit and then ignore it the rest of the game. That said, if you want people to enjoy moving into and out of operator mode, improving the speed at which you switch between one and the other is a good step towards accomplishing that.

I loved the Eximus changes, though at first I really was concerned with how overwhelming they were. Bringing the Eximus occurrences down a bit helped tremendously with that. Overguard is a bit overwhelming NOT because it's strong or that it ignores CC. Those are good things actually. The problem is that there's not a clearly defined counterplay to Overguard. I would prefer it not be operator amps unless DE is willing to make amps actually competitive with real weapons (which would require mod slots). That leaves either weapon arcanes (acceptable), mods (acceptable), a weakness to Toxin (as in traditional shields). Perhaps Gas? This would give a good purpose to the somewhat underwhelming secondary options.

Anyway, all of the changes POST Zariman have been directly addressing each of the pain points people have been expressing, and while there's a fair bit of salt within the community, I feel like DE have at least been pretty responsive in quickly resolving the most obvious of these issues. I would've loved if there had been a bit more review of those changes with people in the community, but it is, after all, a business, and "testing changes live" is something I've seen as pretty standard for Warframe.

Looking forward to the next round of changes!

[jhfdlkjd]

Honestly, this doesn't sound anything like making void sling or overguard better.

It's ok for devs to not play their own game much. I don't feel like messing with my work at home either. But putting this on mind, maybe you really should lay down your pride and listen more to players who have played thousands of hours and know way much more about how the actual gameplay is like.

For the void sling, I could do any move faster and easier with void dash than void sling. NO EXCEPTION. A nerf is a nerf, unless you offer some real buffs to it, such as making it even faster than dash.

For overguard, check the reply with most likes.

[Kane_Legion]

15 hours ago, Sylonus said:

It does not, I've tested this extensively. I keep hearing this myth and the one where if you double jump instead of void-jump that it's faster, if there's any difference it's so miniscule as not to be noticable.

I did make a video on this subject.. Then I deleted the video cause I was wrong

[Bakahung]

Happy to see new Incarnon weapons and Overguard/Void Sling being address .

But there is another thing I want to mention , that's the reward structure of both bounties and 3 new missions .

A lot of bounties took too long and too much effort to finished , but still gets the same amount of rewards as others .

Also rotation rewards for Endless missions are a bit of mess , and 2 new weapons (Aeolok/Hasper) being at 10% in C is like Ambassador all over again . 

I hope you can address solve these problems , too . 

[Kane_Legion]

2 hours ago, Sylonus said:

It does not, I've tested this extensively. I keep hearing this myth and the one where if you double jump instead of void-jump that it's faster, if there's any difference it's so miniscule as not to be noticable.

Honestly there is a bit of a small delay but its so small it does not really matter & if you press CTRL before you sling & then keep holding it it slows down the time between bursts I mean holding CTRL wile you press the jump key which if you hold CTRL then Void sling & then let go of CTRL then just spam the jump key its a little faster but there is still delay..

[sbr34]

 

Honestly I even like the overguard, just please remove this damn transfer delay on the new empty sling or if possible bring the old void dash back, it's just plain nonsense in a game where speed is one of the main "pillars" that it sustains you to go there and change the dash to something slower.

They could simply let the players choose their means of locomotion with tenno, so if the person wants to have more control activate the void sling and if he wants more speed, then switch to void dash, simple as that, they are simply forcing players to accept a new feature that curiously has never been requested by almost anyone.

About the overguard, I have more positive opinions since it added a certain level of danger more that I didn't have before, but one thing that was promised and I didn't even realize now was an improvement in relation to the drops of these same improved enemies.

[SprinKah]

Only problem I got with Eximus is Guardian Eximus, because they just provide layers upon layers upon layers of invulnerabilities and damage resistance to allies around, even to Eximuses. At this point Arctic Eximus is just an exponentially worse version of Guardian Eximus. It'd be very nice if you guys could tweak down Guardian, nerf the 90% dmg resistance or make the rotating shield have HP. 

Plus the fact that Corpus Eximuses are so much tougher to deal with, with their headshot-resistant helmets, making Corpus Eximuses effectively require 2x amount of shots needed to down their Overguard, there's no way to shoot off their helmet as well before it. It'd be nice also if Overguard doesn't take that into account headshot-multiplier/dmg resistance that enemies have, to be the same accross the board in all factions. Slightly nerf Overguard's scaling if you will, but it'd be nice if it's consistent accross all factions. 

Other than that, I think Eximus are fine and I enjoy fighting them, they give me a micro-objective of sort. 

Perhaps tweak the scaling of Eximus's overguard, make it low in lower levels then gradually soar upward in higher levels, like the opposite of armor-scaling flattening, but not too much. Make it easy for new players in low levels, but tough for veterans in high levels

[Argos1024]

16 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Additionally, we’re reviewing the possibility for new Operator Arcanes that have direct interactions with Overguard and are planning on adding an additional Arcane Slot for Amps.

 

TL;DR: Please consider observing a new<MR3/4 player (not a vet/QA playing back at that level), pre second dream and with minimal weapon. modding, or enemy knowledge. That context could be rather casual averse with Eximus attacks & Overguard and I'm unsure if the conversion rate to a paying customer would happen before they would just leave. I personally might have lost interest around Saturn and never buy Plat...

--

I appreciate the DE team taking a look at changing new design based on customer feedback - I know how hard that can be first hand (I admin a delta group with 4k+ testers), so thank you for that. As one that recently came into Warframe (Dec '21) I love the Eximus rework for visuals and some behavior, bravo! But the eximus attack AI is too aggressive and Overguard is confusing for early players; so an Arcane/Operator only answer for just that is likely not the way.

Looking back at what I wanted to get out of Warframe early: the "challenge" was not DPS'ing heavies with weird abilities so I could smash their troops; rather it was in learning proper ability/weapon/mods from trial and error or the community so I could experience crushing those enemies with the right setup for the regular node/mission/quest at hand. THAT is what gets new players hooked to open their wallets... It worked on me and I've enjoyed playing it slow and buying plat where I want to save grind time.

I just completed WW in April and only MR10 today. With some star chart still left I really feel like I'm just starting the game honestly, and I plan to stick around for a long while as it is a fun grind... I'm not certain I'd feel the same way had began post AotZ so you might want to look at that. It's hard to say 100% as I can only look back and can't forget what I learned along the way.

 

[SprinKah]

As for Void Sling. I really prefer void slings right now, perhaps I'm just a...slower player that doesn't really require going from A->B as fast as possible and take things slow.

Void sling does it for me, being able to sorta....hover in the air for a split second and aim where I wanna sling to, can sorta charge the amount of distance I wanna go, no longer having to...dash as fast as possible in order to not fall down immediately.

And the fact that I can just simply use spacebar in order to do these void slings maneuvers is amazing as well.

But if you guys call for it, to bring back Void Dash in some aspects, please don't take away some of the many good aspects of Void Sling as well. 

[Kane_Legion]

small thing probably not gonna be implemented: you Void Sling at a wall & then you press the jump key then you switch to your warframe & start wall "hopping"
also can we get a toggle wall hop option in the settings like press jump to hop onto a wall & the jump key again to jump off the wall..
Like TitanFall wall running but wall hop instead

[Oorel]

8 hours ago, MegaAbyss said:

 

They really don't need to change much

there is no difference...

[(XBOX)Archangel461]

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring and as this is my first ever reply to anything on the warframe forums. With this being perhaps the most profound change to a core part of the game, that being the enemies. This eximus rework has been a breath of fresh air and is absolutely the spotlight to this most recent update. However it has also further widened the gap between veterans and beginners. Prepare for a lengthy but thought out response.

Overguard, is it OP or just a minor announce? Depends on what side of the coin you are on, veteran or beginner. As the warframe community doesn't really have a middle ground. Veterans see the Overguard as a new threat to aim their vast arsenal at. Beginners see it as the grim reaper itself. How does each player deal with this new threat? Bigger question is does it align with HOW it was intended to be dealt with?

Let's begin with the intended method, Amps. Before this update it was stated that Amps would be the primary way to deal with Overguard. This came with operators becoming more involved in the day to day combat of warframe. This has turned out to be the worst way to deal with Overguard. Even with an upgraded Amp, weapons with sufficient builds, are the only effect means at quickly dispatching Overguard. Veterans have no issues with this. Beginners however are being slapped down. This needs to change, but how?

Before I begin on the how let's take a trip back in time. You first unlock your amp after completing the war within quest and visiting the Quills on cetus. This is supposed to be your first intended effective means at defeating Overguard. However from a new player perspective you just completed the second dream, unlocked sedna, and are atleast MR5. Now to aquire a better amp that is only marginally better at defeating Overguard you have to fight these hulking beast called Eidolons, which before were immune to any damage you threw at them. Ands let's not forget that after gaining enough standing and materials to craft a better Amp you still are only half way there as arcanes are the other half. Also this doesn't include Little Duck which is a whole other grind to craft a META Amp that is STILL only marginally better at defeating Overguard. So now on to the how.

Inorder for Overguard to be defeated as intended Amps need a MAJOR boost in damage against Overguard. I would like to add that adding an arcane and additional arcane slot would help a bit, but it is not the answer. This new arcane is not going to drop into our inventory at R5. It will need to be grinded out, if you're nice it will be available at the Quills, however I'm sure it will only be available at the Zariman vendor. Further hurting beginner players.

Now I want to slightly shift the conversation to veterans as I have spoken immensely about beginner players. Having an enemy that charged at us immune to all CC has been an exciting experience. It changed the pace of the game and added an eurgency when one or multiple entered the battle field. However it fell short when using the intended method of how to dispatch these new threats. We quickly learned that the best way to deal with these new enemies is the same as everything else. Blast it till its dead. This quickly reduced the enthusiasm the new eximus brought. This needs to change. 

Now after that long winded but I believe necessary response this is my full recommendation of changes.

1. CC immunity remains the same

2. MAJOR BOOST in Amp damage to Overguard 

3. Increased damage resistance for Overguard to standard damage types ( I.P.S./elements)

With these changes it will help bridge the gap between veteran and beginner loadouts. As the amp not the weapons become the primary way to deal with Overguard. When an Eximus is in play I will not think "blast it into oblivion", instead I will think " switch to operator to remove Overguard." Eximus units are meant to be a threat and should absolutely retain all CC immunity. 

Thank you for reading.

[FSK41]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb VhwatGoes:

If only objective health increased with mission level, like what was promised for excavators long ago :v

Yeah why it isnt immortal entirely so enemies cant kill it while you play CSGO in warframe with Soma?

[SprinKah]

52 minutes ago, FSK41 said:

,,Oh i cant kill something one hit with my bramma, help me mommy''


Seriously people asked for challenge and all I  see is people crying they cant kill something, maybe your build and gear is the problem not the enemy

I LOVE the Eximus rework, the only type that I got a problem with is Guardian.

It's not about their...ability that I got the problem with per se, I mean yeah, their ability can create scenarios that one might consider a bit too much, I mean...I have gone through A LOT of solo Steel Path Exterminate missions to the point I gained 400+ steel essence from them alone, RAW, no abilities, to test my weapons out. Grineer side, I had no problem with, Eximus enemies were tough but reasonable...

Now onto CORPUS side however. You go up against a Guardian, and you best hope it's not a Juno Tech, with their rotating shields up, a few enemies beefed up 90% resistance next to him, INCLUDING 1-2 other Eximuses around, sure if I were to use my Chroma's abilties, they wouldn't have been so tough to deal with but I'm trying to test out my weapons raw bc not every warframe has dmg-enhancing/tanking abilities. It took me 5+ minutes, slowing chipping down their Overguard without getting shredded in seconds (And I'm not exaggerating, lvl 130 Juno Tech will shred warframes in seconds with ability-usage) , while waiting for their invulnerable shields to rotate around, can't deal with the enemies next to him because well...Guardian. took ALL of my ammo + 1 ammo pad for my Primary Merciless Kuva Hind with riven ( pure TOXIN build btw which normally would've killed them in 3-4 shots each), in order to get through that single cluster of enemies, I think THAT might be a bit overtuned, lost like 3-4 revives for that as well.

I distanced myself from AoE weapons ages ago, not once touched them for a long time since I noticed how often I see Wukong/Zarrs in my public matches...

 

But tbh, it's not their ability that I got a problem with, it's the inconsistency...

Like i said, Corpus enemies (Crewmen to be precised) have 50% headshot-dmg reduction with their helmets, that applies to Overguard too, that BASICALLY gives them double the amount of health/overguard that Grineer/Infested eximuses have...I just don't think that Corpus ALONE should have that, while Grineer/Infested Eximus enemies, don't. 

And let's compare Grineer-specific Arson Eximus and Corpus-specific Guardian Eximus: 

Guardian:

- 90% dmg reduction aura that affects EVERY enemy in a relatively large area. 

- Make even the squishiest enemies into complete tanks, can even affect ally Eximuses, which can also be ANOTHER Guardian.

- Basically invulnerable shields with tiny gaps that you can only occasionally shoot at, and you'd seriously need to deal with them FAST if you're going in raw. 

Arson:

- Occasional, obvious fire blast that can be easily dodged through by rolling. 

 

And seriously tho, like I said... what's the point of Arctic when there's Guardian...it's literally just a completely worse version of it...

I mean, if DE had made other Eximuses..well..as good as Guardian, I PROBABLY wouldn't have a problem but I highly doubt the majority of people would like that tbh, or maybe they would, who knows, depends really. 

 

[phaselock97]

16 hours ago, FSK41 said:

Another highly-discussed topic being reviewed is Overguard. We’re currently experimenting and reviewing different options to address varying islands of feedback.

Can we pls keep some goddamn challenge in the game? If we decrease the Overguard CC resistance increase something else to compensate, mainly HP and possibly speed or other threatening mechanics. It was such a good step to force the melee spammers to use more brain so dont go back to easymode please

Yeah, maybe make them be affected by CC but make them INVULNERABLE to splash damage untill the guard is stripped and make it only strippable with direct damage. Direct damage meaning not being able to use the bramma and shoot somewhere close to it and it dies. Direct damage meaning hit the bastard directly with the explosive arrow or it takes no damage. This way you bring down the AOE meta a bit and make CC valuable again cuz you can stop them in their tracks. You also keep the gameplay engaging by not letting people just jump around like monkeys, throwing rocket arrows left and right and maybe that might also make single target weapons somwhat relevant again.

[-Bv-Psykiik]

more arcane slots for operators and perhaps mods too would be great 

[(PSN)c1234567890alvi]

I opened up a topic before wondering what could be done about Void Sling and a universally praised answer was (aside from "better directional control) add Aim-Glide to Void mode in the air.

Regarding damage to Overguard with operator: it has been said countless times before, but: No. Bandaids. One of the greatest critique points when you released the weapon arcanes and galvanized mods was that it were band-aids you first had to grind for. Do not repeat that mistake, please.

Regarding Overguard CC, make it an Adaptation similar to sentients. It would keep Eximus as priority targets, since you would need to get rid of their Overguard before they get entirely immune, but would also pull CC frames out of their bad situation right now. Add a splash damage resistance instead, I feel like AoE spam has heavily increased since then...
 

 

[Eklectus]

Why is Void Sling even a thing you guys are trying to salvage? Nobody asked for it. It didn't need to be touched at all. If you insist on keeping it for so-called precision, then make it pop up when holding down space and let us use the thing that actually works when tapping space in void mode. 

[AlexMercer]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

No thank you, I much prefer the new sling.

That is also why asked a option to switch.

[Sylonus]

8 hours ago, MegaAbyss said:

I did make a video on this subject

Just watched the video, I have no idea what you're talking about... the delay is no different whether you're using melee or not, you transfer in, and then there's about a 1.5 second delay before you can use melee, or transference to transfer back regardless of what you push, this did not used to be the case, right now after they removed the extra extra delay, it's mostly only an issue for magus elevate, but, still kindof annoying at times.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, SprinKah said:

 

 

"while waiting for their invulnerable shields to rotate around"

that's what your movement system is for.....

and testing guns raw doesn't make the point....because in the real world scenario.....a knowledgeable player will be using the tools available in the game to defeat the enemy.

If anything, you should try a buffed single target to show how fast you can kill. 

My Kuva Karak has no issues killing those units.

[memic]

The problem not about sling or dash, but huge nothingness we need to travel, like one km to rapolyst battle

[Bloody_Sunshine]

Just stop trying to fix void sling. Void dash was perfect and had no reason to be replaced. Giving us void dash back would be the more logical and smart choice, literally not a single soul complained about it. All you are showing us is that you just don't play your own game and have no idea of what you are doing. Just admit the failure and revert the change. 

[(XBOX)RedstoneGuard]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)ForegoneBison70 said:

Will we be getting any gyre buff/fix’s? After her fix in the hot patch she is in dire need of some help.

What happened to her?

[wavic]

I would like to see an option to choose between Void dash and Void sling. I find Void sling useful only during Angel fight.
And I hate so much that transference delay.