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Wukong Should be Banned from Public Play


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Disclaimer: I am a Wukong main.

I often see criticisms about Wukong's Cloud Walker and his Celestial twin abilities. Wukong apparently comprises 11% of all play on Warframe, which is significantly more than the next frame down. Understandably, Wukong's overuse and admittedly lazy playstyle often aggravate other people in public squads. I've seen a lot of nerfs proposed, but I'd like to suggest something far simpler and easier, while keeping Wukong intact: ban him from public squads. Until you switch off Wukong, a message will come up saying something like "Try a different frame."

The smart thing to do when playing Wukong has always been to solo. He doesn't need damage or buffs from any other frames, he's one of the best stealth frames in the game, he heals himself through Cloud Walker. Wukong players don't need to play with others; in fact, more often than not, they don't play nice at all. Wukong is a selfish frame, and as a Wukong main I'm ready to admit that. Seeing how popular he is, I can't imagine the overall reception to any nerf would be very popular; it's more likely many Wukong mains who play purely solo, as I do, would come out of the woodwork to complain.

Wukong works on his own, and the Wukong mains that don't play solo need to learn this. Quite frankly, they're a problem, for both the public squads and the soloing Wukong mains. Locking him out of public play makes every party happy except the idling Wukongs in public squads that don't ever do anything. That's my suggestion to "fix" Wukong.

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Or not? We should not ban anything from public. If you dont want to meet wukong then premake your groups theres a lfg channel. Public is the annoying mess and it accepts everyone. 

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Just now, DragonManipulator372 said:

Be that as it may, there's always a consistent complaint about Wukong; the other option is a nerf which many people will most likely not be happy with; Wukong doesn't need other players.

You do realise that banning what people dont like would ruin public even more. Since there are alot of people that dislike aoe weapons in public since the first player eats all the fun ect. 

People will always complain but putting arbitrary restrictions to prevent a maybe complaint will definantly create a complaint. 

 

Plus whats the point of having things in game if they are banned from use? 

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15 minutes ago, Oggyswe said:

You do realise that banning what people dont like would ruin public even more. Since there are alot of people that dislike aoe weapons in public since the first player eats all the fun ect. 

People will always complain but putting arbitrary restrictions to prevent a maybe complaint will definantly create a complaint. 

 

Plus whats the point of having things in game if they are banned from use? 

Nothing can be done about the AOE meta unfortunately, too many people enjoy it. However, with Wukong, I often see far more complaints than praise. As for "the point", I personally find Wukong fun even when soloing; between his clone and my KZarr, it's quite fun to destroy everything. But again, Wukong is a frame that really shouldn't be played with others; he's too selfish and his playstyle is too lax. Banning him from public play would make many people happy, and the people who consistently play Wukong in public parties would no longer take up a party space, nor annoy other players with Wukong's playstyle.

It would also help put a stop to these "public" Wukongs giving solo Wukong mains (like myself) a bad name. The issue is with the people who play Wukong public, not Wukong himself.

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1 minute ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

Wukong is a frame that really shouldn't be played with others; he's too selfish and his playstyle is too lax.

At this point why not getting rid of him compleatly? delete the frame. 

that's not a solution, that's hiding a problem under the rug. 

The only problem Wukong has is that the Twin is too enticing and too much of an excuse to summon it and just hop around waiting for the twin to delete everything. 

That's what needs to change in Wukong, not banning him or not in public play. 

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

that's not a solution, that's hiding a problem under the rug.

I really disagree. Wukong's abilities are annoying to public players, primarily because Wukong is not for public play. I don't feel his set of abilities contributes much to squad play at all, and that's fine, the problem arises when fellow Wukongs insist on playing public, despite there not being any need to. Wukong is overpowered on his own, he doesn't need team members to back him up. I am perfectly fine with Wukong being banned from public play, as a solo player it doesn't affect me. His abilities are fine for solo play, but solo play alone.

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8 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

Nothing can be done about the AOE meta unfortunately

There's a lot of things that can be done to the AoE meta, fortunately. These can go from adding line of sight to it (should have been done long ago) to much harsher falloff, and goes through making self stagger bypass status and knockdown immunity. DE just needs to bite the bullet and apply as many measures as they see fit.

11 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

too many people enjoy it

Irrelevant, too many people has enjoyed too many things that eventually end up being changed regardless.

Feel free to investigate about Coptering, Tonkor's Rocket Jump, World on Fire, Accelerant, Greedy Pull, Peacemaker, Void Dash, Void Blast, etc. for further reference. I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones i can recall off the top of my head right now.

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4 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

I really disagree. Wukong's abilities are annoying to public players, primarily because Wukong is not for public play. I don't feel his set of abilities contributes much to squad play at all, and that's fine, the problem arises when fellow Wukongs insist on playing public, despite there not being any need to. Wukong is overpowered on his own, he doesn't need team members to back him up. I am perfectly fine with Wukong being banned from public play, as a solo player it doesn't affect me. His abilities are fine for solo play, but solo play alone.

you are talking from subjectivity. and since this isent a competative game. banning things that bother people is a terrible precident. i already seen limbo and volt mentioned to. 

and i theres people who dislike wisp, vauban, necros and so on and so on.

if warframe had a competative mode i could see some frames being banned for being to strong but in casual public? coman. and i even hate having wukong in my group but id never see him banned for it. its unhealthy for the game in the long run

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1 minute ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

primarily because Wukong is not for public play.

And...who said that? 

because this is just your opinion, not the truth. 

DE makes every warframe to let people play them in coop AND solo. 

There is no "solo frame". 

7 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

I don't feel his set of abilities contributes much to squad play at all, and that's fine

So...is Mesa a "solo" frame? Saryn? Revenant? Nidus? Gauss? Gara? Garuda? Ivara? Xaku? 

Just because a frame doesn't have or has very little abilities that can "help" the team doesn't mean that it's a "solo frame". 

9 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

despite there not being any need to.

Let me give you a news....There is literally NO warframe that "needs a team". 

Literally no frame. 

Even Yareli can deal with the game in solo play. 

11 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

I am perfectly fine with Wukong being banned from public play

And that's why it's a relieve that DE makes frames with the intent of making them useful in both situations and not "solo" and "coop". 

you can play solo, don't force people to play solo. the game is not yours and your opinion is not everyone's opinion.

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7 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

harsher falloff,

This is nullified for explosive weapons by Primed Sure Footed; no incentive not to get in an enemy's face and blow them up.
 

8 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

adding line of sight to it

Acceptable, though I do use the explosive damage to help bust a lot of crates quickly; Limbo is fine for this though as a replacement.
 

9 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

goes through making self stagger bypass status and knockdown immunity.

This would make Primed Sure Footed as a Daily Tribute reward worthless; can't say enemies knocking me down has ever been a problem.

I'd also like to go back to an earlier reply and say:

24 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

The only problem Wukong has is that the Twin is too enticing and too much of an excuse to summon it and just hop around waiting for the twin to delete everything. 

...that Wukong's ability flaws aren't limited to his clone; frankly Cloud Walker is a far more overpowered ability with its endless flow of bonuses.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

...that Wukong's ability flaws aren't limited to his clone; frankly Cloud Walker is a far more overpowered ability with its endless flow of bonuses.

Wukong is not popular because of Cloud walker. 

don't take us for stupid people, please. 

Edited by (PSN)max141064
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1 minute ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

...that Wukong's ability flaws aren't limited to his clone; frankly Cloud Walker is a far more overpowered ability with its endless flow of bonuses.

then if we go by op shouldent sayrn be banned from sanctuary since she gets around 90% of the action everytime shes in there?

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Wukong is not popular because of Cloud walker. 

The clone certainly has a part, but an ability that:

  1. Makes you invincible
  2. Makes you invisible (and immune to lasers, thus making spy mission a non-issue)
  3. Stuns enemies
  4. Lets you fly fairly quickly
  5. Heals your health rapidly as you move, as well as your clone's health

Seems very attractive from an outside perspective.

3 minutes ago, Oggyswe said:

shouldent sayrn be banned from sanctuary since she gets around 90% of the action everytime shes in there?

Saryn's spores are impressive, but they still require damage to spread; your allies can help speed up the process (though granted, Saryn could probably solo ESO with the right build.)

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Just now, DragonManipulator372 said:

This is neither constructive nor an argument.

The same could be said about your "suggestion" that is filled with bias and straight up made-up "reasons" on why people use Wukong. 

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

The same could be said about your "suggestion" that is filled with bias and straight up made-up "reasons" on why people use Wukong.

First of all, how am I biased? I am a Wukong player, I'm trying to offer a solution from what I've seen from the community at large. Secondly, no, Cloud Walker is not a "made up" reason. It's overpowered and has way too many bonuses for other frames to catch up.

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Posted (edited)
On 2022-05-13 at 3:10 AM, DragonManipulator372 said:

This is nullified for explosive weapons by Primed Sure Footed; no incentive not to get in an enemy's face and blow them up.
 

Harsher falloff would have nothing to do with PSF. It's literally just reducing damage near the explosion edge even further than it currently is.

On 2022-05-13 at 3:10 AM, DragonManipulator372 said:

Acceptable, though I do use the explosive damage to help bust a lot of crates quickly; Limbo is fine for this though as a replacement.

If explosives were good mainly as utility by breaking crates, you can be sure there would be no issue with AoE weapons. The issue is that these are powerful enough to deal with enemies in all the relevant content and have no real drawbacks since the few ones added by DE can be easily trivialized.

On 2022-05-13 at 3:10 AM, DragonManipulator372 said:

This would make Primed Sure Footed as a Daily Tribute reward worthless; can't say enemies knocking me down has ever been a problem.

Like it or not, PSF is part of the issue since it entirely negates the drawback added by DE when self damage eas removed. Also, making PSF unable to prevent self stagger would fix the issue of new players asking for ways to get it asap in order to join the bramma spamma club, so double win.

On 2022-05-13 at 3:10 AM, DragonManipulator372 said:

..that Wukong's ability flaws aren't limited to his clone; frankly Cloud Walker is a far more overpowered ability with its endless flow of bonuses.

Wukong is overloaded with low investment high reward abilities that also trivialize parts of the game.

Hell, his Twin, Cloud and passive are all busted and one could also make a case for his 3 to be quite good as well due to several reasons.

Edited by ----Legacy----
typo
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8 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

First of all, how am I biased? I am a Wukong player,

That's called bias. As a wukong player, you're offering a pseudo-fix that actually fixes nothing in order to prevent a possible wukong nerf that could actually fix the issue.

11 minutes ago, DragonManipulator372 said:

Cloud Walker is not a "made up" reason. It's overpowered and has way too many bonuses for other frames to catch up.

Yes, cloud walker has too many things going for it on top of being really cheap to cast, but the same applies to celestial twin.

With that out of the way, i think a big part of why celestial twin is so good comes from the braindead AoE meta on top of how specter AI interacts with weapons. Most wukong players found on public lobbies use it only with Kuva Zarr or Kuva Bramma after all.

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Hell, his Twin, Cloud and passive are all busted and one could also make a case for his 3 to be quite good as well due to several reasons.

I actually agree with this; personally I think the 2x damage on the clone, the three extra lives, and the stun ability on cloud walker should all be removed.

Edit: As a matter of fact, kick the Clone's health and shields down a notch to be identical to yours - my clone has 5000 health at any given time, which is just ridiculous.

29 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

As a wukong player, you're offering a pseudo-fix that actually fixes nothing in order to prevent a possible wukong nerf that could actually fix the issue.

As for this, yes, it doesn't "fix" Wukong, but nerfing him is going to dampen other solo players' experience and enjoyment, simply because there are bad apples who play Wukong in a public squad.
 

Edited by DragonManipulator372
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Posted (edited)

Reality Check:

Clearly more players enjoy playing Wukong that players complaining.

-the anecdotes of complainers claiming to see him so often supports this.

it doesn't make sense that a small minority should make decisions for a majority.

 

take your 'cancel culture' back to twitter

Edited by (PSN)haphazardlynamed
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