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AI/Bots need to be added in conclave


Jackdarsan

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Much like Arena/Index, have bots filling up the conclave match to allow for opportunities for new players to start a conclave match. If other players do join they just take the bots position just like Index does.  

If this idea butt hurts the die hard conclave players so much their eyes tear up, then make this a training option or a reduced/no rep gained option, just for the simple opportunity of giving the player a taste of the game modes. 

They might just enjoy conclave enough to increase the conclave player base if new players a given an easy opportunity to play. 

Before anyone says there a discords or clans or whatever, the new player wont be looking outside the game to play the game, that's just poor game design. They will just see no one joining and ask in game and 99% feedback will be 'oh conclave, that's dead, don't bother with that'. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jackdarsan said:

If this idea butt hurts the die hard conclave players so much their eyes tear up, then make this a training option or a reduced/no rep gained option, just for the simple opportunity of giving the player a taste of the game modes. 

Alternatively, making bots contribute very diminished or no standing gain, and perhaps with a redux of standing gain.

That'd address two problems:

1. Lobbies appearing barren / inactive from a gameplay perspective (besides appearances mattering, running around finding the one person in an 8-player map is fun only for so long)

2. Standing gain being monopolized around performance, leaving low-performing players reward-barren.

Plus other benefits, like new players having some sort of outlet or reprieve in an imbalanced match beyond being a punching bag. Something that'd stave off the Alt+F4 temptation, both in active gameplay and from a reward perspective.

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8 minutes ago, Jackdarsan said:

Much like Arena/Index, have bots filling up the conclave match to allow for opportunities for new players to start a conclave match. If other players do join they just take the bots position just like Index does.  

If this idea butt hurts the die hard conclave players so much their eyes tear up, then make this a training option or a reduced/no rep gained option, just for the simple opportunity of giving the player a taste of the game modes. 

They might just enjoy conclave enough to increase the conclave player base if new players a given an easy opportunity to play. 

Before anyone says there a discords or clans or whatever, the new player wont be looking outside the game to play the game, that's just poor game design. They will just see no one joining and ask in game and 99% feedback will be 'oh conclave, that's dead, don't bother with that'. 

 

I agree with it if there is no rep gained from killing the bots. Because conclave is pvp and killing bots is pve. But yea it'd be a great idea for new players to be able to practice and get a feel for conclave at any time by playing bots. I'm also hopeful come crossplay we won't need bots for activity though. 1 can only hope. 

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Just now, Leqesai said:

Despite some of the developers having experience working on games with bots I don't think DE has what it takes to do this correctly. The AI of Warframe is pretty much non existant.

True and since the ai in warframe is so brain dead it could possibly make players in the lobby just kill the bots to win because its easier. 

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40 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Despite some of the developers having experience working on games with bots I don't think DE has what it takes to do this correctly. The AI of Warframe is pretty much non existant.

I think there's a misconception that bots, at least for Conclave, must be sophisticated and human-like. For most of the benefits they'd provide, they don't need to be any more complicated than specter AI with, say, Loki Decoy accuracy stats (30-50%). In a way, they're just there to liven up the place. Better AI is just a cherry on top.

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27 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

I think there's a misconception that bots, at least for Conclave, must be sophisticated and human-like. For most of the benefits they'd provide, they don't need to be any more complicated than specter AI with, say, Loki Decoy accuracy stats (30-50%). In a way, they're just there to liven up the place. Better AI is just a cherry on top.

I didn't say they need to be human like. They do, however, need to navigate the conclave maps in a player-like fashion (bullet jumping, vertical movement, use of powers etc.). The "AI" in warframe is zerg "move in line towards objective with barely any competence whatsoever" which does not really work for bots with this level of movement. It worked fine in old games where the player has very little momentum/vertical movement but Warframe is pretty complex regarding movement.

The AI specters in this are a testament to just how brain-dead the AI is. Specter-like bots in Conclave would be a joke. Unless they were aimbots with 2x stronger weapons or something cheezy like that.

Even the bots in their old game were pretty dumb but compared to warframe enemy AI they move more realistically (like spazzy players...)

 

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3 hours ago, Jackdarsan said:

Much like Arena/Index, have bots filling up the conclave match to allow for opportunities for new players to start a conclave match. If other players do join they just take the bots position just like Index does.  

If this idea butt hurts the die hard conclave players so much their eyes tear up, then make this a training option or a reduced/no rep gained option, just for the simple opportunity of giving the player a taste of the game modes. 

They might just enjoy conclave enough to increase the conclave player base if new players a given an easy opportunity to play. 

Before anyone says there a discords or clans or whatever, the new player wont be looking outside the game to play the game, that's just poor game design. They will just see no one joining and ask in game and 99% feedback will be 'oh conclave, that's dead, don't bother with that'. 

 

I'm just curious if this would cause players just want to play against bots because it would be easier than against other players? So then players might try to look ways to prevent playing against others like leave if another player joins? or try to play at quiet hours when there's less chance for other players? 

I personally would love to play against bots I'm not big fan of PvP games they usually brings negative feelings and worsen my depression. I have tried conclave couple times to get standing and I got stunned and killed instantly wasn't fun at all. At least got standing by staying at the end. I even "won" one match because player rage quit and match kicked everyone out but then put me back as only player (or everyone were placed on their own matches?) so when timer went down I won because I was only player. 

But that's why I play Warframe it's PvE game where players work together not against each other. 

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28 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I didn't say they need to be human like. They do, however, need to navigate the conclave maps in a player-like fashion (bullet jumping, vertical movement, use of powers etc.).

It's like the opposite of that "well yes, but actually no" meme...

As I said, they need not be any more complex than specter AI. They're there to liven up the place. That they're sub-par to human players is fine, probably ideal: it's player versus player, after all, so you'd want to discern other players as priority targets.

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42 minutes ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

But that's why I play Warframe it's PvE game where players work together not against each other. 

With you on that, would love PVE conclave so we team up like Index to kill off NPCs. However that might be asking for too much. 

Just was trying to think how to revive an already existing part of the game but hek DE will do whatever they want in the end, they could remove conclave all together if they wanted. 

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54 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

It's like the opposite of that "well yes, but actually no" meme...

As I said, they need not be any more complex than specter AI. They're there to liven up the place. That they're sub-par to human players is fine, probably ideal: it's player versus player, after all, so you'd want to discern other players as priority targets.

Yes but what I'm saying is they need to be smarter than they currently are simply because the AI doesn't know how to navigate the maps effectively. Currently enemies just trudge along. There is zero evasive action to the AI and zero vertical movement.

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11 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Yes but what I'm saying is they need to be smarter than they currently are simply because the AI doesn't know how to navigate the maps effectively. Currently enemies just trudge along. There is zero evasive action to the AI and zero vertical movement.

Okay: why is improved AI necessary for bots? Why is it we cannot have bots unless they have improved AI?

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14 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Okay: why is improved AI necessary for bots? Why is it we cannot have bots unless they have improved AI?

...So the bots can properly navigate the conclave maps...

Current AI is not designed for conclave and wouldn't work right.

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33 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

...So the bots can properly navigate the conclave maps...

Current AI is not designed for conclave and wouldn't work right.

Uh...Index and Rathuum AIs can navigate a fair portion of Conclave maps as-is. Namely all the maps shared with Index and Rathuum. I don't see any indication that AI would suddenly fail in, say, the Derelict Chambers map. What gives you the impression they'd fail there?

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Just now, Tyreaus said:

Uh...Index and Rathuum AIs can navigate a fair portion of Conclave maps as-is. Namely all the maps shared with Index and Rathuum. I don't see any indication that AI would suddenly fail in, say, the Derelict Chambers map.

That's a good point. The AI on those maps still doesn't move with any verticality though. They just wander around set paths until they detect player. Could certainly work.

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