bnuy Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Hi Tenno! Welcome to another of my Warframe Rebalance threads, this one was quite spontaneous. In the past I pondered some changes that could make Nyx more engaging and viable, but that was well before I ever even started writing these threads. Recently a friend of mine who loves and mains Nyx mentioned some changes they would like to see her get, and that conversation somehow managed to spur enough motivation in me to write up a rework for her! Nyx has a theme of making the enemies be the biggest threat to themselves. She uses control of the enemies themselves to turn them against one another and keep herself and her allies mostly out of harm's way. I wanted to improve on this theme and rid her of the atrocious fourth ability she currently has. Absorb encourages you to sit in one spot and not engage with the game at all, it's the epitome of bad design. Along with this, with how old she is most of the augments are quite dated and should just be made inherent to the kit which I will be implementing in this thread. Finally, I will be giving lots of cross-ability synergy, allowing you to combo and actually engage with her kit, rather than just AFK. Hopefully this should keep her feeling fun, engaging, and fresh!Passive: Hypnotic Trance (new) Her old passive was just bad. It gave no player feedback and was basically useless in the grand scheme, not to mention even if her passive caused a bullet to miss her, it may fly past and damage an ally still. There are plenty of reasons it needed to be the first thing to go, and I'll be replacing it with an interesting bit of survivability that synergizes with her kit. Spoiler Nyx has a 10% chance to ignore damage from attacks of enemies within 15.0m, radiation proccing her attacker in retaliation. upon triggering it blocks all damage and status effects of the attack radiation proc has the standard duration of 6.0s Confusion debuff timers not tied to radiation procs are paused while radiation procs are active on enemies. if you use Psychic Bolts to confuse a radiation procced enemy, the Psychic Bolts confusion duration will not decay until the radiation procs themselves expire Summary: Her passive is now actually useful and gives direct visual feedback. Along with these things it improves her survivability, fits her theme, and has synergy with her kit. Ability 1: Mind Control (tweaked) Mind Control is very on theme and has the potential to be a fantastic ability, it just lacks basic quality of life and the ability to make more than a single ally. Spoiler Nyx dispels psychic energy at the targeted point, mind controlling up to 5 of the enemies within a radius of 3.0m and converting them to allies for 60.0s. up to five of the targets within the 3.0m radius are converted to allies for the duration and no longer able to be damaged by allies cast radius is affected by ability range maximum converted allies is affected by ability range prioritizes making allies out of Heavy and Eximus units in the area with extra priority on Heavy Eximus units if the ability hits no enemies the energy cost is refunded all converted allies benefit from your weapon mods with 50% mod power the enemy will assume the mods of your corresponding weapon type, if they have a primary they copy your primary weapon mods, if they have a secondary or melee they instead copy those mods mod power is affected by ability strength with 50% mod power your Hornet Strike would apply only +110% damage all converted allies gain 5% lifesteal from radiation damage dealt allies prioritize targeting enemies affected by Psychic Bolts hold cast to end existing Mind Control Mind Control can now be used to command around your newly converted allies. Tap Cast: Allies move to targeted area and defend or interact with the point. if cast on interactable point, allies will move to and defend the point while one interacts with it, like hacking a spy console or picking up excavator power cells if cast on non-interactable point, permanently causes all converted allies to stand on and around the targeted point and defend the area until called back Double Tap: Allies return to your side. all converted allies will begin returning to your side to support you Hold Cast: End Mind Control on all affected targets, opening them to finishers. all converted allies are knocked into a finisher prone state before having the effects of Mind Control cancelled Converted allies no longer gain bonus damage from shooting them during a short window after casting Mind Control. Converted allies are no longer invulnerable for the duration of Mind Control. Summary: This ability will feel better to use and be stronger, especially with the newly added extra meat-shields. Ability 2: Psychic Bolts (tweaked) This ability is already incredibly useful, but has no real use outside of stripping enemy armour and shields. I am going to be giving this ability some synergy with her kit while giving it much needed quality of life changes, as always. I am also baking the augment into the ability and changing how the augment functions to be more unique and engaging. Spoiler Nyx sends out 6 Psychic Bolts that seek out nearby enemies within 50.0m, staggering them and removing 70% of their maximum armour and shields for 10.0s. sends out 6 Psychic Bolts on cast towards enemies within 50.0m Psychic Bolt range is not affected by mods Psychic Bolt count is affected by ability range on enemy hit, Psychic Bolts stagger the enemy on enemy hit, Psychic Bolts apply the confusion debuff for 10.0s confusion debuff duration is affected by ability duration on enemy hit, Psychic Bolts remove 80% of the enemy's maximum armour and shields for their duration armour and shield removal is affected by ability strength on enemy or ally hit, Psychic Bolts add 100% of their remaining duration to all conditions Nyx has affecting the enemy the ability duration boost is not affected by mods the total remaining duration of any ability cannot exceed 250% of it's modded duration a 20.0s confusion debuff from Chaos can only be increased up to 50.0s on ally hit, Psychic Bolts instead grant the ally +100% radiation damage for all equipped weapons radiation damage bonus is affected by ability strength Pyschic Bolts have new targeting priority. While Aiming: Highlights the target you are aiming at with a 'Psychic Mark', if cast while an enemy is marked all Psychic Bolts will prioritize them. marks enemies while aiming at them, faintly appears above their head similar to Ash's Blade Storm mark on enemy mark, all Psychic Bolts will be directed at the marked target, redirecting to other nearby enemies once the marked target has 100% of their resistances removed on ally mark, all Psychic Bolts will be directed at the marked ally, stacking radiation damage onto them Tap Cast: Prioritizes debuffing enemies within range. all Psychic Bolts will be directed at the nearest enemy until their resistances have been 100% removed, they will then redirect to other nearby enemies to do the same Hold Cast: Prioritizes buffing allies within range. all Psychic Bolts will be split among allies in range, prioritizing un-buffed allies Recasting ability no longer removes existing Psychic Bolts effects. Infested movement speed reduction removed. Summary: The ability was already quite strong but lacked synergy and versatility. It really only had a single use, so these changes should open up lots of options for interesting synergy and actual combo-ing of her abilities. This will hopefully breathe some life into her kit. Ability 3: Telekinetic Transfer (new) With Absorb being replaced with a new survivability tool and the changes to Chaos, it made sense to swap their ability positions. Chaos is now her fourth ability, with the new survivability tool seen here replacing Chaos as her third ability. Changed the ability to a toggle with no energy cost the only drains energy while active, but during this time gives Nyx a very powerful tool for keeping herself alive while causing just a little more mayhem! Spoiler Nyx toggles her telekinetic energy, channeling to redirect 35% of all incoming damage to the attacker with +25% status chance, and buffing her passive while in Chaos. no toggle activation cost while active, drains 5 energy per second while active energy drain per second is affected by ability efficiency while active, Nyx mitigates 35% of all incoming damage, then redirects it to the attacker with +25% base status chance damage mitigation is affected by ability strength damage mitigation cannot exceed 95% status chance bonus is affected by ability strength status chance bonus is doubled against confused enemies confusion refers to those affected by Chaos, Psychic Bolts, or radiation procs while active, Nyx gains +2% proc chance to Hypnotic Trance for each enemy inside the same Chaos ring as her proc chance is not affected by mods while active, if Hypnotic Trance triggers, redirect 100% of the attack with a bonus damage increase equal to your current damage reduction, also with the usual bonus status chance if you have 50% reduction active and your passive triggers it will redirect 150% of the attack's damage back to the attacker with +25% bonus status chance Summary: Completely re-invented. A damage reduction that redirects damage to enemies and allows you to spread their own statuses back at them. A great tool for staying alive, and could even be used with niche builds to make some status shenanigans! Ability 4: Chaos (moved from ability 3, tweaked) This ability is a great fit for her kit and theme but it seems much better as her fourth ability. It has tons of potential and with Telekinetic Transfer being mainly a survivability tool if makes more sense for this to be moved into the place of her fourth ability. Aside from all that, this ability needed the usual treatment, augment baked into the kit and then updated. The ability felt a bit weak as a means of crowd control only, so I tweaked it to also help synergize with the rest of the changes/ability buffs in her kit. Spoiler Nyx summons a ring with a radius of 20.0m that confuses all enemies within for 8.0s while increasing their radiation weakness, and lasts for 25.0s. each second spent in a Chaos ring an enemy will have the radiation damage resistance of their health, armour, and shields reduced by 5% resistance reduction is affected by ability strength resistance reduction is permanent and not affected by mods this means an enemy with alloy armour which takes +75% radiation damage by default, will now take +100% damage from radiation after spending five seconds in a ring enemy radiation weakness cannot be increased above 100% vulnerability the Chaos ring applies a refreshing 8.0s confusion debuff confusion duration is not affected by mods the Chaos ring shrinks from 100% size, down to 25% by the end of it's duration can only have two Chaos rings active at a time, casting a third will replace the oldest Summary: This ability had a little bit of compensation to account for the increased energy cost in the fourth ability slot, but with the augment combined with it the ability was basically already perfect. Augments: All of the augments needed extensive overhauls. They were all what should've been basic functions of their abilities, so they were moved into the base kit and then adjusted to compensate. I like to think all of these augments are very unique and allow you to alter your playstyle to some degree, and they would all find use some place. Since Absorb is no longer a thing I changed one of it's two augments to be for Chaos instead, meaning Chaos now has two augments while her new Telekinetic Transfer ability (formerly absorb) only has one. Spoiler Mind Freak -> Loyal Servant: (Mind Control) maximum converted allies reduced to 1 Loyal Servant can serve as a cast target of Telekinetic Transfer, Chaos, or any enemy targeted abilities, with 50% of the normal ability stats. all ability stat scaling is affected by their corresponding stat, with 150% duration you will get 75% total ability duration on your Loyal Servant this allows all allies to cast targeted abilities like Trinity's Energy Vampire on your Loyal Servant to enable ability use without directly casting on enemies, as well as providing some amazing cross squad synergy upon taking lethal damage, Nyx can hold cast to make her Loyal Servant perform a 'Sacrificial Act', draining all of her Loyal Servant's remaining health and replenishing her own with it sacrificial act has a cooldown of 25% of your total Mind Control duration Loyal Servant has Psychic Bolts affect them with 500% efficiency Psychic Bolt efficiency is affected by ability range this means Psychic Bolts grant +500% radiation damage instead of +100% Pacifying Bolts -> Doubling Delusion: (Psychic Bolts) on death, for each Psychic Bolt afflicting the enemy, two new Psychic Bolts will be created each with 50% of the remaining duration, that will seek out the nearest enemy within 25.0m duration transfer is not affected by mods seeking range is affected by ability range Assimilate -> Adaptive Shift: (Telekinetic Transfer) redirected damage is converted to adaptive damage redirected damage gains +25% critical chance instead of +25% status chance critical chance bonus is affected by ability strength critical chance bonus is doubled against confused enemies confusion refers to those affected by Chaos, Psychic Bolts, or radiation procs redirected damage gains +2.0x critical damage critical damage bonus is not affected by mods Chaos Sphere -> Entropy: (Chaos) -50% total Chaos ring size Chaos rings no longer shrink over their duration Chaos rings now link their Hypnotic Trance bonus to one another this means if you have three rings active with a total of 10 enemies in them then the total proc chance for Hypnotic Trance will be 30% for all allies within any of the three rings you can have up to four Chaos rings active at a time applies the effects of Hypnotic Trance to all allies within any ring Singularity: (Absorb/Telekinetic Transfer -> Chaos) with one or more active Chaos rings, hold cast to permanently disarm enemies within the rings and then ragdoll and pull enemies that are outside of, but within 15.0m of any ring's edge toward it at a speed of 10m/s for 5.0s all enemies within the rings and pull have their weapons ripped from their hands and are permanently disarmed halved energy cost pull speed is not affected by mods pull range is affected by ability range pull duration is affected by ability duration Final Thoughts I really enjoyed this rework more than I thought I would! I'd always had a soft spot for Nyx with her mind control theme and her sort of area denial/crowd control kit. I did my best to enhance her gameplay loop and offer synergy within her kit. I think with these changes Nyx would be incredibly fun to play and be actively engaging, encouraging you to actually play the game, as opposed to Absorb AFK strats. I appreciate y'all takin' the time to read this, and I hope you enjoyed it. Looking forward to any feedback you have, if you noticed anything that feels off let me know! I'm not a Nyx main so I can't comment on what most mains want her kit to have, but I did my best to make what seemed appropriate based on the feedback from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nani Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilmera Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 i'm impressed. it's the best Nyx overhaul suggestion i've ever seen so far. out of thy mouth into Steve's ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnuy Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Vilmera said: i'm impressed. it's the best Nyx overhaul suggestion i've ever seen so far. out of thy mouth into Steve's ears I appreciate the kind words. I took a nap after posting and just updated to add a bit more synergies, as well as tweak some numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beueuom Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 As a Nyx main I'm very happy with the vast majority of this. But I would leave Chaos as 3, and Telekinetic Transfer as 4, simply because I don't want to have to relearn which buttons I'm pressing. Your version of Mind Control is actually something I'd consider using if I weren't entirely addicted to the Dispenser. Although I'm not sure I agree with limiting Chaos's instances, which is the entire reason I use Chaos Sphere to begin with. I'd also keep the full invulnerability on top of the damage redirection for Telekinetic Transfer, with even an initial casting cost of 25. If Valkyr can have that plus kittyclaw shredding it makes sense to me that Nyx should be able to as well. And while we're comparing to Valkyr, the current drain of Absorb where energy drained is based from damage taken(8 per 1000 which adds up QUICK at higher levels) on top of energy per second is, however, very unwelcome. So I can live with something that ramps up slowly like Valky'rs Hysteria which would maintain a manageable rate. All in all very good design. Edit: And please for the love of god let the psychic bolts not be affected by Mag bubbles and other weird things that affect projectiles. They already home-in, we don't need them getting blocked/stuck just because a bubble got dropped too close to me and/or my target. Or maybe even if they're not projectiles at all, since having high ping also seems to not let them connect sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcticblizzard Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Way back in the day when Nyx was the new frame I remember the awe of the power she displayed and thinking how over power she was. For a while I used her and liked her. As time went on, she was left behind with only minor changes that were not enough to keep up with the modern times. With your ideas, I don't see the same "awe of power", but I definitely see a frame that can keep up with the modern expectations while sticking to the core theme. Thank you for your efforts of putting this together and I hope DE takes note. (As of this post, I do not know if you did a Frost rework/rebuild. If you have, thank you. If not, please do consider giving Frost a look. 5 augments and he is still clunky.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR1D3 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Another solid Nyx rework post, but I never see one for Banshee XD Solid work though. Solid. Really like those augment ideas too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnuy Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 2022-06-15 at 6:04 AM, Arcticblizzard said: Way back in the day when Nyx was the new frame I remember the awe of the power she displayed and thinking how over power she was. For a while I used her and liked her. As time went on, she was left behind with only minor changes that were not enough to keep up with the modern times. With your ideas, I don't see the same "awe of power", but I definitely see a frame that can keep up with the modern expectations while sticking to the core theme. Thank you for your efforts of putting this together and I hope DE takes note. (As of this post, I do not know if you did a Frost rework/rebuild. If you have, thank you. If not, please do consider giving Frost a look. 5 augments and he is still clunky.) Thanks for your kind words, I'd love to give Frost an overhaul! I have lots of random ideas for a few frames bouncing around in my head, and Frost actually happens to be one. (including a rework to cold procs) I can't guarantee anything, but seeing all the motivation I've had to write these up lately I'll potentially get a Frost one done eventually, if I do I'll let you know. 6 hours ago, PR1D3 said: Another solid Nyx rework post, but I never see one for Banshee XD Solid work though. Solid. Really like those augment ideas too. Oh gosh.... Banshee She needs lots of love! Her Sonar and Silence carry her, but even then Silence could use some buffs and changes. Maybe I'll make a rework of her as well one day but no promises! If I do though, she'll be getting a new fourth ability and potentially also a new first ability, or just extensive changes to it. Thanks for the feedback y'all, hope things are doin' well for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Don't touch Nyx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnuy Posted June 21, 2022 Author Share Posted June 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Kontrollo said: Don't touch Nyx. Would you care to elaborate? Did you even read the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 21 hours ago, bnuy said: Would you care to elaborate? Did you even read the thread? I've read it. Nyx doesn't need any drastic changes, if any at all. But that's what you're proposing. And after her previous rework I'd rather they leave her as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnuy Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Kontrollo said: I've read it. Nyx doesn't need any drastic changes, if any at all. But that's what you're proposing. And after her previous rework I'd rather they leave her as is. I mean, it's okay to like even if it's bad, I'm not going to police what you can and can't like. (people enjoy Inaros after all) Objectively though, Nyx needs tweaks. She's outdated, her 4 is a trash anti-play anti-fun ability. Her 1 is horrible and needs extensive changes to be viable in any capacity. What do you like about her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontrollo Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 hours ago, bnuy said: I mean, it's okay to like even if it's bad, I'm not going to police what you can and can't like. (people enjoy Inaros after all) Objectively though, Nyx needs tweaks. She's outdated, her 4 is a trash anti-play anti-fun ability. ... That's just your subjective opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcticblizzard Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, Kontrollo said: Not to team up or anything, but you are not realy giving full reasons for your stance on the topic. If you believe Nyx is just fine, may be you can describe to the readers what is missing here that you seem to know. But short line interruptions in this thread without full explanation just leads to people not giving the attention to your opinions. I am not trying to insult you or be patronizing. Many of the forum posters don't seem to think full written posts are needed, when they truly are. As always, I look forward to constructive criticism and discussion. Readers, please do comment and keep it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnuy Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Kontrollo said: That's just your subjective opinion. Nyx's 4 objectively discourages playing the game. It's base function locks you in place and prevents all forms of input/interaction. That is without mentioning the total damage immunity that just throws a wrench in balance. Sure you can spend a slot to use an augment, the ability still removes basically all parkour and movement and slows you to a snail's pace. It's actively discouraging you from playing the game. Ignore damage, ignore parkour. It's objectively bad design in a fast paced parkour reliant looter shooter. If you wish to say any of this is subjective please do elaborate on why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harutomata Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Whenever someone gives feedback on Nyx, it has mixed reception. Since she's viable, in a sense. Yes, she can armor/shield strip, but so can many other frames which have other things going for them. Yes, she can turn invincible with the augment which demotes Warframe from being a movement shooter so it feels meh. And there are bunch of tank frames, again with more things in their kit. So the question remains, why play Nyx? You know what the problem is? That the current way she's used does not fit her theme at all. She's supposed to be a mind control/psychic themed, crowd control warframe. But she got powercrept by other frames, and eximi becoming CC immune was the last nail in the coffin for Nyx in my opinion. Revenant does mind control better than her, and it's not even part of his theme lol. Personally I think she could use change. I don't think she should be a nuke frame or anything like that, but they could definitely give her more support/utility. I think Psychic Bolt restoring health (and/or maybe energy) for her and her team could incentivize her being used for teamplay more. (Though functionality might be debatable when facing infested faction enemies.) Ability Strength currently does nothing for Chaos. What if it made affected enemies do more damage to each other? As one more problem with her current kit is that she has incredibly poor stat weights. You can't really effectively build her for all of her current abilities. She's currently a waste of interesting theme and good visual design. It's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_xGamerx_x Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 oh no nxy cant clear rooms like Wukong/Bramma time to complain in the froums. 1 hour ago, Harutomata said: eximi becoming CC immune yes eximi ignoring CC was a questionable choice, effectivly killing all cc frames :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeAndZephyrMarried Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Mind Control is a bad ability because most enemies in this game are bad and uninteresting. However, Warframe being a horde shooter I'm not suggesting to directly buff enemies just so Nyx, Revenant and Nekros have a section of their kits improved. Mind Control could instead improve a target with special effects and abilities that only Mind Control has. Just as an example, imagine if Heavy gunners under Mind Control gained much more effective suppression that could slow down enemies. Basically think of how suppression works in Warhammer PC games and let Heavy gunners do that if Nyx casts 1 on them. Yeah I realize it's unrealistic. It's a lot more work than simply buffing numbers or giving her more copies of the same boring specters we already have. I don't expect that much extra detail for a single frame- I simply mean Mind Control should have something unique to offer and not another flavor of specters. I agree with most of your proposed rework except for her passive and her Absorb replacement. I still think dodge is a survival gimmick that suits her better than outright immunity or facetanking. One proposal I liked was her dodge chance improving in direct relation to number of enemies afflicted by radiation or confusion in her affinity range. It encourages using her abilities and it's a literal display of high chaos = high advantage for Nyx. On that note, Absorb should definitely be replaced but I'm on the position that it shouldn't be an ability that requires Nyx to get hit in the first place. I've always wanted Nyx to have access to sleep- her name literally means night, come on- but with Chaos and the whole letting enemies fire upon each other, it doesn't seem to fit, nor do I want her to step on Equinox's toes by sleep spam. For the moment let's say it's a further debuff ability- something to do with darkness, such as accuracy and damage debuff on enemies- and if its debuffs and your new Chaos' resistance reduction reach a certain point, enemies lose consciousness and go to sleep because something something mind damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 On 2022-06-22 at 10:01 PM, Arcticblizzard said: Not to team up or anything, but you are not realy giving full reasons for your stance on the topic. If you believe Nyx is just fine, may be you can describe to the readers what is missing here that you seem to know. But short line interruptions in this thread without full explanation just leads to people not giving the attention to your opinions. I am not trying to insult you or be patronizing. Many of the forum posters don't seem to think full written posts are needed, when they truly are. As always, I look forward to constructive criticism and discussion. Readers, please do comment and keep it civil. Psychic bolts now makes me have to be aware of my reticle, where now I can just press it and move on. Chaos is a quick instant CC. Every time you cast it's an almost guaranteed CC (when they grab their heads and keel over), the rest of the ability is a nice bonus. We like the 4. Someone else thinking it isn't acceptable or anti parkour is subjective. I don't care if people use a team of 4 wukongs because that's their playstyle. The passive is actually great. And I'm always gonna helmith out the 1 for ensnare. On 2022-06-22 at 11:43 PM, bnuy said: Nyx's 4 objectively discourages playing the game. It's base function locks you in place and prevents all forms of input/interaction. That is without mentioning the total damage immunity that just throws a wrench in balance. Sure you can spend a slot to use an augment, the ability still removes basically all parkour and movement and slows you to a snail's pace. It's actively discouraging you from playing the game. Ignore damage, ignore parkour. It's objectively bad design in a fast paced parkour reliant looter shooter. If you wish to say any of this is subjective please do elaborate on why. Prowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcticblizzard Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 On 2022-07-03 at 6:23 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Ignoring game mechanics (parkour, active participation, ect). 1) What do you envision Nyx theme to be? Example: Frost is themed around cold/ice, so all of his abilities are cold/ice themed. 2) Does Nyx's 4th abilities still fit that theme you came to in question #1? I am not trying to make anyone look like a fool here. It appears that there is a large number of other players who see Nyx good as is and not in need of change. As far as mechanics go, yes. However, at this point what is in question is whether or not Nyx's entire kit follows the same theme. Making munitions disappear in mid flight seems to me to be more than just an illusion or mind trick. I realy do hope you or someone who follows your opinion will reply. I do look forward to seeing this from the other side. As always, I look forward to constructive criticism and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 43 minutes ago, Arcticblizzard said: Ignoring game mechanics (parkour, active participation, ect). 1) What do you envision Nyx theme to be? Example: Frost is themed around cold/ice, so all of his abilities are cold/ice themed. 2) Does Nyx's 4th abilities still fit that theme you came to in question #1? I am not trying to make anyone look like a fool here. It appears that there is a large number of other players who see Nyx good as is and not in need of change. As far as mechanics go, yes. However, at this point what is in question is whether or not Nyx's entire kit follows the same theme. Making munitions disappear in mid flight seems to me to be more than just an illusion or mind trick. I realy do hope you or someone who follows your opinion will reply. I do look forward to seeing this from the other side. As always, I look forward to constructive criticism and discussion. And we can put fire blast in Frost..... Themes are suggestive, not codified rules that are supposed to be followed 100%, which the addition of the helminth shows. As well as the fact that we're ninjas with high tech weaponry. Everyone isn't a role player. Not to mention DE is very unlikely to circle back and redo a frame that was just reworked, especially when they've said multiple times they aren't doing reworks, and if they did, they'd probably pick 10 other frames that haven't been touched yet. Good luck with the rework, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnuy Posted July 19, 2022 Author Share Posted July 19, 2022 On 2022-07-03 at 3:23 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Psychic bolts now makes me have to be aware of my reticle, where now I can just press it and move on. By this do you mean my rework makes you have to worry about your reticle? Because no, it doesn't, you must have misread or misunderstood. You can still cast without aiming with this rework and it will prioritize the nearest targets. On 2022-07-03 at 3:23 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Chaos is a quick instant CC. Every time you cast it's an almost guaranteed CC (when they grab their heads and keel over), the rest of the ability is a nice bonus. With this rework it does this function and more, it's overall improved and now grants in-kit synergy and enemy debuffing. On 2022-07-03 at 3:23 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: We like the 4. Someone else thinking it isn't acceptable or anti parkour is subjective. I don't care if people use a team of 4 wukongs because that's their playstyle. "We" you and who? It's not subjective, it's a very core component of the gameplay and the engagement. Removing parkour removes a large part of what makes Warframe, well, Warframe. You disagreeing does not make this false. On 2022-07-03 at 3:23 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: The passive is actually great. And I'm always gonna helmith out the 1 for ensnare. Yes, and with this rework her passive is effectively the same just more powerful. It's just a better version of her current passive. You state yourself you always subsume over her 1, and in this thread I vastly improved her 1 and turned it into an actually effective way to have a band of goons helping you in combat. Why would you complain about the ability you like using the least getting a direct improvement? On 2022-07-03 at 3:23 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Prowl. Prowl should be changed as well. Pointing out another area with this flaw doesn't make your argument any more correct. Objectively, Nyx's 4 is bad. It discourages you from parkouring and playing the game, as well as renders you invincible meaning you can ignore damage and enemies now as well. It just turns off most mechanics of the game, it's a S#&$ty, non-engaging, anti-play, anti-fun ability. On 2022-07-05 at 4:54 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: And we can put fire blast in Frost..... You... didn't really think you had a point here did you? Subsumes are not a part of the frame, it's a separate system. This has nothing to do with a frame's inherent theme. On 2022-07-05 at 4:54 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Themes are suggestive, not codified rules that are supposed to be followed 100%, which the addition of the helminth shows. As well as the fact that we're ninjas with high tech weaponry. No, themes are not suggestive. Every frame is built around a specific theme. Subsumes have nothing to do with a frame's theme, stop conflating two separate things. On 2022-07-05 at 4:54 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Everyone isn't a role player. Warframe is quite literally labeled a Role-playing game. Not sure what your point here was, you're not proving anything. On 2022-07-05 at 4:54 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Not to mention DE is very unlikely to circle back and redo a frame that was just reworked, especially when they've said multiple times they aren't doing reworks, and if they did, they'd probably pick 10 other frames that haven't been touched yet. This is not an argument against my rework. I know DE is not likely to go back and rework frames, that doesn't mean I'm not going to offer suggestions. On 2022-07-05 at 4:54 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said: Good luck with the rework, though. Thank you, though I would have appreciated if you offered any actual constructive criticism. All you said is "it changes Nyx therefore it's bad because she's perfect". I would appreciate if you read it over once again and gave some feedback, but I'm not expecting you to. Regardless, have a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AegidiusF Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Le 14/06/2022 à 18:18, bnuy a dit : Ability 3: Telekinetic Transfer (new) With Absorb being replaced with a new survivability tool and the changes to Chaos, it made sense to swap their ability positions. Chaos is now her fourth ability, with the new survivability tool seen here replacing Chaos as her third ability. Changed the ability to a toggle with no energy cost the only drains energy while active, but during this time gives Nyx a very powerful tool for keeping herself alive while causing just a little more mayhem! I like your Nyx rework, but there is only one point I don't really like : Telekinetic Transfer replacing Absorb : why replace an invulnerabilty ability by a damage reduction ability ? Nyx Absorb is great, I use it a lot with it's augment Mod Assimilate. I would prefer keeping her 4th and making it better rather than replacing it by another ability. Telekinetic transfer has only a base 35% DR : we will need a bit more than 270 Power strength to reach the 95% DR cap. Gara's Splinter Storm has a base of 70% DR for just 50 energy points (cap at 90% DR). How to build this ability in a proper way when you have to put so many Power Strength ? Your efficiency and Duration (as there is an energy drain) will suffer from this. Also, you won't heve enough range for the other abilities. A base 35% DR is not enough. Le 14/06/2022 à 18:18, bnuy a dit : Her old passive was just bad. It gave no player feedback and was basically useless in the grand scheme, not to mention even if her passive caused a bullet to miss her, it may fly past and damage an ally still. There are plenty of reasons it needed to be the first thing to go, and I'll be replacing it with an interesting bit of survivability that synergizes with her kit. Even though I agree that Nyx Passive needs a better version, I like it, as it synergizes with the Aim Glide effect, that reduces enemy accuracy. The problem with her passive is the fact that enemy accuracy scales with level : low level enemies have low accuracy, high enemies have high accuracy and Nyx passive won't do much against them. DE has reworked enemies accuracy (before, high level enemies had even greater accuracy), but high level enemies still have a lot of accuracy and a 20% reduction is not enough. Nyx passive should be higher, like : all enemy targeting her has a 50% chance to miss the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 58 minutes ago, bnuy said: By this do you mean my rework makes you have to worry about your reticle? Because no, it doesn't, you must have misread or misunderstood. You can still cast without aiming with this rework and it will prioritize the nearest targets. With this rework it does this function and more, it's overall improved and now grants in-kit synergy and enemy debuffing. "We" you and who? It's not subjective, it's a very core component of the gameplay and the engagement. Removing parkour removes a large part of what makes Warframe, well, Warframe. You disagreeing does not make this false. Yes, and with this rework her passive is effectively the same just more powerful. It's just a better version of her current passive. You state yourself you always subsume over her 1, and in this thread I vastly improved her 1 and turned it into an actually effective way to have a band of goons helping you in combat. Why would you complain about the ability you like using the least getting a direct improvement? Prowl should be changed as well. Pointing out another area with this flaw doesn't make your argument any more correct. Objectively, Nyx's 4 is bad. It discourages you from parkouring and playing the game, as well as renders you invincible meaning you can ignore damage and enemies now as well. It just turns off most mechanics of the game, it's a S#&$ty, non-engaging, anti-play, anti-fun ability. You... didn't really think you had a point here did you? Subsumes are not a part of the frame, it's a separate system. This has nothing to do with a frame's inherent theme. No, themes are not suggestive. Every frame is built around a specific theme. Subsumes have nothing to do with a frame's theme, stop conflating two separate things. Warframe is quite literally labeled a Role-playing game. Not sure what your point here was, you're not proving anything. This is not an argument against my rework. I know DE is not likely to go back and rework frames, that doesn't mean I'm not going to offer suggestions. Thank you, though I would have appreciated if you offered any actual constructive criticism. All you said is "it changes Nyx therefore it's bad because she's perfect". I would appreciate if you read it over once again and gave some feedback, but I'm not expecting you to. Regardless, have a good one. I was saying I like your new passive..... Not typing a huge response to everything else. The helminth is in the game for a reason. And Mag and Excal are the next frames confirmed for a rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AegidiusF Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Le 05/07/2022 à 13:04, Arcticblizzard a dit : 1) What do you envision Nyx theme to be? If i can make a little contribution to this interesting conversation : Nyx has one theme and two references/inspirations. The theme is psychic power, and the inspirations are : 1) the night goddess on Greek Mythology, Nyx, daughter of Chaos (mother in law of Pasithea - the name given to her Deluxe skin, cosidered, by mistake, by some people as the hallucinations goddess). and 2) a parasitc wasp, capable of mind controlling other species for her own reproduction, being is symbiosys with some virus that removes the target immune defenses, so their eggs and larva won't be killed inside the parasitic target. That's why Nyx has a Vespa helmet (vespa means wasp in italian and portuguese), and normal Nyx helmet has a parasitic wasp stinger form. This way, we have : Nyx passive : goddess Nyx on her dark veil. Nyx 1st : parasitic wasp controlling her target Nyx 2nd : the virus in symbiosys with the parasitic wasp that removes the defenses from the body of the target. (this ability was reworked and now it's matches much better Nyx's whole inspiration/references). Nyx 3rd : the confusion in the battle field brought by the darkness of the Night goddess Nyx 4th : psychic power (perhaps there is some reference on the World Egg Nyx created on the Orphic mythology, but I really don't think so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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