So uh, how's Gyre doin?

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

So I remember that Gyre on release was super powerful. Then she got a nerf to her 4th ability because it would start applying excessively. Afterward people were saying that she wasn't that good or she wasn't as good. Then people kinda stopped talking about her and it's been a couple months. So uh, how good is she? Is she still good? Is she bad? Was she bad but then they buffed her? I need an answer.

[sunderthefirmament]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

So I remember that Gyre on release was super powerful. Then she got a nerf to her 4th ability because it would start applying excessively. Afterward people were saying that she wasn't that good or she wasn't as good. Then people kinda stopped talking about her and it's been a couple months. So uh, how good is she? Is she still good? Is she bad? Was she bad but then they buffed her? I need an answer.

Here's your post, but from the past.

 

It's a fair question though.  She hasn't gotten any buffs that I'm aware of, and the change to her 4 certainly stripped her of a lot of her DPS (though maybe this had to happen for stability issues).

 

My take on Gyre is that although she looks gorgeous and her sound direction is top notch, she's a glass cannon with no cannon.  She crumples instantly when her unreliable CC falls apart, so anytime there's an eximus on screen.  To be fair, she performs admirably on the star chart and sortie level content.  But if you take her past that, her damage because negligible and her lack of survivability makes itself apparent.  I don't love the physics on her 2, as you can't even throw it upward, which seems like a pretty big oversight on a physics-based ability.  So I replaced it with Condemn.

 

PROS:

• fantastic sound direction
• good art style
• sufficient damage for sortie level

 

CONS:

• damage doesn't scale past sortie level
• inconsistent CC
• no survivability
• no real utility or niche
• physics based abilities are frustrating and unpredictable
• her 4 is too flashy with a bright energy color, and can be nauseating when you bullet jump (flashy corkscrew effect)
• signature weapon is terrible

[DrBorris]

In late game content (post Sortie) she is in a rough spot. She functions, but doesn't do anything special as her DPS falls off quite hard and her survivability is quite low. 

Everything before that though... as long as there are enough enemies to keep her crit buff active I'd argue she is the best speed running AoE DPS frame, she feels far better than old WoF Ember did. Everything you glance at and their five closest friends instantly explode when your 3 and 4 are up.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Someone already hit around 200 minutes in SP Mot with Gyre. Yea, they died a handful of times, but they were still playing skillfully. I know the average person can't do that, but it's possible.

[PsiWarp]

Mmm. I'd like her Red crits to make a bigger impact than 4.0x crit damage. More than that, her clientside bugs fixed so she actually performs as well as she does in solo, since half the time her passive and Cathode Grace straight up don't work.

[ReddyDisco]

Helminth food

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

She’s ok. She’s a DPS frame that DE nerfed the DPS of so she’s just mediocre in everything and just not worth using as there are much better frames available far earlier in the game.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Here's your post, but from the past.

 

It's a fair question though.  She hasn't gotten any buffs that I'm aware of, and the change to her 4 certainly stripped her of a lot of her DPS (though maybe this had to happen for stability issues).

 

My take on Gyre is that although she looks gorgeous and her sound direction is top notch, she's a glass cannon with no glass.  She crumples instantly when her unreliable CC falls apart, so anytime there's an eximus on screen.  To be fair, she performs admirably on the star chart and sortie level content.  But if you take her past that, her damage because negligible and her lack of survivability makes itself apparent.  I don't love the physics on her 2, as you can't even throw it upward, which seems like a pretty big oversight on a physics-based ability.  So I replaced it with Condemn.

 

PROS:

• fantastic sound direction
• good art style
• sufficient damage for sortie level

 

CONS:

• damage doesn't scale past sortie level
• inconsistent CC
• no survivability
• no real utility or niche
• physics based abilities are frustrating and unpredictable
• her 4 is too flashy with a bright energy color, and can be nauseating when you bullet jump (flashy corkscrew effect)
• signature weapon is terrible

They nerfed her 4 simply because the rate of which it was proccing was unintended. It had nothing to do with the games performance.

[Zeclem]

at the start she was a decent dps frame with decent cc but no survivability. then they nerfed her already meh ult for no good reason.

yes, it was meh. it added like, 500 damage for every crit you do with an electric proc and had a cooldown of 1 second per enemy. it was worth casting, but only barely. and now it does the same thing except the ult cd is global instead of per enemy now. 

now she is just another member of the club of frames that got released in a meh state and left untouched afterwards. 

[cute_moth.npc]

We are out of update patches between now and Tennocon, she is probably doomed to join the rest of the 2021/2022 class of Warframes that got abandoned.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Someone already hit around 200 minutes in SP Mot with Gyre. Yea, they died a handful of times, but they were still playing skillfully. I know the average person can't do that, but it's possible.

And this is good opinion of someone that at tried playing her. I can see (even in this thread) that she is very weak (not even star chart strong) or she is weak because she doesn't melt SP.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

What if you armor strip the enemies via helminth or Unairu? Are her abilities good then?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

38 minutes ago, quxier said:

And this is good opinion of someone that at tried playing her. I can see (even in this thread) that she is very weak (not even star chart strong) or she is weak because she doesn't melt SP.

Depends on the player's skill level and experience in game. Nothing is weak on the starchart, at all.

And some people think their simulacrum Corrupted Heavy Gunner test actually means anything (it doesn't).

[Josh486]

She's fine imo

[quxier]

39 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

And some people think their simulacrum Corrupted Heavy Gunner test actually means anything (it doesn't).

I'm testing stuffs mainly using CHG (unless I need something specific).

41 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Depends on the player's skill level and experience in game. Nothing is weak on the starchart, at all.

I disagree. I've tried Yareli. With some help she melts Grineers (~40 minutes, pre current eximus, kuva survival). On other hand she has barely doing damage at 10~15 minutes in infested survival (one of the highest). I heard that you could use 4th to kill ancients but I find it troublesome for such "low" level.

 

[trst]

I'd say she's just fine.

People seem to want to compare her to other "nuke" frames when she's more of a "weapon platform" than anything. Which in that department she's perfectly fine with bonus crit chance on all weapons, aoe and light CC on all weapons, and one of the best enemy gathering abilities in the game (if you get used to the weird physics of it). On top of being fairly energy independent and can more easily maintain energy or even forgo things like energy Arcanes.

The big thing she's missing relative to other frames like her is the lack of survivability. But the only other frame in her category with an innate gathering ability is Zephyr. And in that comparison Gyre is far easier to use and has a better (but less spammy) gathering ability while Zephyr relies on a more stationary ability (Tornado) for damage but has some of the best survivability in the game.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

37 minutes ago, quxier said:

I'm testing stuffs mainly using CHG (unless I need something specific).

I disagree. I've tried Yareli. With some help she melts Grineers (~40 minutes, pre current eximus, kuva survival). On other hand she has barely doing damage at 10~15 minutes in infested survival (one of the highest). I heard that you could use 4th to kill ancients but I find it troublesome for such "low" level.

 

Every ability isn't supposed to nuke. 

I disagree that pressing a button is "troublesome" but if that's difficult for you that's ok.

[(PSN)DarkArticMage]

4 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Mmm. I'd like her Red crits to make a bigger impact than 4.0x crit damage. More than that, her clientside bugs fixed so she actually performs as well as she does in solo, since half the time her passive and Cathode Grace straight up don't work.

Personally I'm still experiencing the client side bug after the last hotfix.

[quxier]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Every ability isn't supposed to nuke. 

Sure but abilities should be good at something. It might killing stuffs, or CC. It might be "fun aspect" (it's subjective but at least it shouldn't be clunky e.g. Grendel's Pulverize + Augment can get stuck for some time so it's little clunky).

In Yareli case her 4th is bad at probably most things.

[pwnSacrifice]

1 hour ago, trst said:

I'd say she's just fine.

People seem to want to compare her to other "nuke" frames when she's more of a "weapon platform" than anything. Which in that department she's perfectly fine with bonus crit chance on all weapons, aoe and light CC on all weapons, and one of the best enemy gathering abilities in the game (if you get used to the weird physics of it). On top of being fairly energy independent and can more easily maintain energy or even forgo things like energy Arcanes.

The big thing she's missing relative to other frames like her is the lack of survivability. But the only other frame in her category with an innate gathering ability is Zephyr. And in that comparison Gyre is far easier to use and has a better (but less spammy) gathering ability while Zephyr relies on a more stationary ability (Tornado) for damage but has some of the best survivability in the game.

This is so insanely backwards it's not funny. She does extremely little to buff weapons and has *no* survivability built in-kit, as well as all her abilities either being damage,, or damage + something, how is she in any way shape or form a weapon platform? She's basically a squishier, higher damage, electric Ember.  She's all caster frame, which is why we talk about her damage falling off hard in steel path.  Gyre is also extremely energy hungry if you're actually trying to keep up her 4 and utilize her other abilities due to the rather short base duration on it, and her lack of a "dump" stat - she needs str, range, and duration to function well.

Comparing her to Zephyr is hilarious. Zephyr is basically immortal, and Airburst (not tornado) is what we use to gather enemies, which is a lot better than gyre's 2 at doing just that. 'Nados are to multiply your damage in an area and do a terrible job of gathering enemies with the typical low Strength builds we run on Zephyr (* The more you know *). 

I would agree with two things here - She's just fine and her biggest flaw is lack of survivability. 

All in all, she works 'fine' but lacks a defined niche where you'd actually want to use her. She doesn't do anything unique but everything she can do is desire-able and functions 'okay'. If electric status becomes important or her gathering + damage becomes more relevant than say ensnare or larva, then she could find herself a solid niche. Barring that, she gets to sit on the shelf next to the other functional but nicheless frames. Maybe next to hildryn?

 

[Zeclem]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

What if you armor strip the enemies via helminth or Unairu? Are her abilities good then?

everything is good if you put them against defense stripped targets. frames who can do that will see use just for that ability quite often.

1 hour ago, trst said:

I'd say she's just fine.

People seem to want to compare her to other "nuke" frames when she's more of a "weapon platform" than anything. Which in that department she's perfectly fine with bonus crit chance on all weapons, aoe and light CC on all weapons, and one of the best enemy gathering abilities in the game (if you get used to the weird physics of it). On top of being fairly energy independent and can more easily maintain energy or even forgo things like energy Arcanes.

The big thing she's missing relative to other frames like her is the lack of survivability. But the only other frame in her category with an innate gathering ability is Zephyr. And in that comparison Gyre is far easier to use and has a better (but less spammy) gathering ability while Zephyr relies on a more stationary ability (Tornado) for damage but has some of the best survivability in the game.

the word you are looking for here is "buff" frame. 

and she is one of the weakest buffers out there. rhino is better. chroma is better. mirage is better. frost is better with his new augment. hell, even zephyr is a better crit buffer with her passive, and she is ages ahead in everything else that you can ask a frame to do for you compared to gyre. 

[pwnSacrifice]

16 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

everything is good if you put them against defense stripped targets. frames who can do that will see use just for that ability quite often.

the word you are looking for here is "buff" frame. 

and she is one of the weakest buffers out there. rhino is better. chroma is better. mirage is better. frost is better with his new augment. hell, even zephyr is a better crit buffer with her passive, and she is ages ahead in everything else that you can ask a frame to do for you compared to gyre. 

She Buffs herself, that's it, and not even a lot. 

Support  - buffs and helps others  (e.g. Wisp, Trinity, Harrow, Rhino)

Weapon platform - self buffs and survivability (e.g. Inaros, Mirage, Chroma, Zephyr)

Caster - primarily damage or primarily CC (e.g. Khora, Ember, Limbo, Yareli)

(So for your examples, in order, Support, Platform, Platform, Platform, Platform) This is why I call her a Caster. She's Electric crappy Saryn, or high damage squishy Ember, take your pick.  Obviously, frames can do more than 1 role sometimes, like Xaku or Rhino, but Gyre's pretty one-track with her abilities.

And Zephyr is one of, if not the, best frame in the game. Any comparisons to Zephyr right now are unlikely to be favorable. 

[trst]

2 hours ago, pwnSacrifice said:

This is so insanely backwards it's not funny. She does extremely little to buff weapons and has *no* survivability built in-kit, as well as all her abilities either being damage,, or damage + something, how is she in any way shape or form a weapon platform? She's basically a squishier, higher damage, electric Ember.  She's all caster frame, which is why we talk about her damage falling off hard in steel path.  Gyre is also extremely energy hungry if you're actually trying to keep up her 4 and utilize her other abilities due to the rather short base duration on it, and her lack of a "dump" stat - she needs str, range, and duration to function well.

Comparing her to Zephyr is hilarious. Zephyr is basically immortal, and Airburst (not tornado) is what we use to gather enemies, which is a lot better than gyre's 2 at doing just that. 'Nados are to multiply your damage in an area and do a terrible job of gathering enemies with the typical low Strength builds we run on Zephyr (* The more you know *). 

I would agree with two things here - She's just fine and her biggest flaw is lack of survivability. 

All in all, she works 'fine' but lacks a defined niche where you'd actually want to use her. She doesn't do anything unique but everything she can do is desire-able and functions 'okay'. If electric status becomes important or her gathering + damage becomes more relevant than say ensnare or larva, then she could find herself a solid niche. Barring that, she gets to sit on the shelf next to the other functional but nicheless frames. Maybe next to hildryn?

 

Cathode Grace and Rotorswell both have notable weapon buffs. Paired with a grouping ability she seems fairly focused on buffing weapons even if her abilities are also designed to do damage.

And Zephyr is a rather apt comparison with the only major difference being that Gyre is more mobile and has more ability damage while Zephyr has better survivability. Both have a grouping ability, they both buff their crit chance (Gyre needs a lot of strength to match Zephyr's but Zephyr's requires you to be airborne), and Tornado effectively gives Zephyr's weapons AOE and more damage but at the cost of the ability being effectively stationary unlike Gyre.

Also most frames lack a niche as there is always some meta frame that can do their job better. Even then Gyre's niche would be whenever you just want some low effort bonus damage on your weapons. Or in some mobile objective modes like Interception, Defection, or Void Armageddon where she gets to keep her damage while staying mobile and can group enemies as necessary.

  

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

the word you are looking for here is "buff" frame. 

and she is one of the weakest buffers out there. rhino is better. chroma is better. mirage is better. frost is better with his new augment. hell, even zephyr is a better crit buffer with her passive, and she is ages ahead in everything else that you can ask a frame to do for you compared to gyre. 

All of those need some form of energy management to keep their buffs active, ones like Zephyr or Frost are conditional buffs, and Zephyr is the only other one with a grouping ability. Gyre's a decent choice unless you want as much damage as possible while needing to manage energy or you want survivability with your weapon buffs.

Also I'd say "weapon platform" is more accurate than "buff" as she only buffs herself. Unlike say a frame like Harrow or Rhino.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

Gyre is the squish frame from hell. But when I put an invigoration on her which gave her, like, 1800 health she was... still the squish frame from hell. If she takes 1 or 2 hits on Steel Path she drops like a lead balloon. (In comparison, I run a Nova -- also a megasquish frame -- with 300 health and have no problems surviving any mission type.)

All that being said, I really really really love Gyre! 

I replaced her 2nd (worthless) ability with Gloom (see above for why) and gave her a loadout slot of her very own. She's fun to play and she looks amazing. Now if only I could totally avoid her taking any damage... 😂

[Zeclem]

6 minutes ago, trst said:

All of those need some form of energy management to keep their buffs active,

energy management is not an issue. if you can not build arcane energize or zenurik, you can always use restores if its such a huge problem.

6 minutes ago, trst said:

ones like Zephyr or Frost are conditional buffs,

zephyr's "condition" is not touching the floor. thats not exactly a super difficult condition to maintain in warframe. oh and, she is not less mobile than gyre. she is one of the most mobile frames out there once you get used to her tailwind. 

frost's condition isnt exactly hard either, his ult has good range, spammability and comes with armor stripping. 

6 minutes ago, trst said:

and Zephyr is the only other one with a grouping ability.

none of the frames i listed need a grouping tool to do their damage. gyre does, since most of her ability damage comes from electric procs that are only worth a damn with a grouping tool. 

and if you really want a grouping tool, helminth exists.

6 minutes ago, trst said:

Gyre's a decent choice unless you want as much damage as possible while needing to manage energy or you want survivability with your weapon buffs.

this is an admission of gyre needing help. she does not have any real survivability, have objectively weaker buffs than most frames with buff abilities and her only advantage is nullified by using a very popular arcane, a very popular focus school or just using consumables that are very easy to mass up.