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Reintroduce a Variant


Kontrollo
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I've brought this up before in the following thread, but it was locked:

Context:

Years ago, Conclave had some modes that were simpler than we currently have:

  • The main one was a a oneshot mode ('instagib') with a faster-firing Opticor only. No differences between Warframes, no abilities.
     
  •  As mini-events we had the following (iirc):
    • Snowday Showdown: snowballs (similar to throwing stars) and a candy cane scythe as melee
       
    • Quick Steel: throwing stars with 2 modes and a Nikana as melee
       
    • Hearts & Arrows: Valentine's Day event with bows

Aside from that they were fun to play, from a gameplay perspective they were great for mainly two reasons:

  • They allowed anyone to hop in without having to make any configurations to their loadouts beforehand.
    • Side note: Currently, completely new players still start with only a melee the first time they try Conclave, a problem present since 2016, I think
  • They put everyone on equal footing despite what they used (not even Warframe passives were enabled)

 

Conclave has been left "without active devs" for a long time -- we're talking years here -- and issues have bled into it mainly from unrelated PvE patches -- although at least with the Zariman update one of the biggest problems has finally been addressed (fall-off bug), so thanks for this. Despite that, some of the issues mentioned in the previous thread are still present, hence why I wanted to bring it up again in there. I'm thinking about two main directions it could be taken:

 

1) Reintroducing a simplified permanent mode like the ones or in the spirit of the ones mentioned above would sidestep all those lingering problems, for one thing.

 

2) Also, it'd be great to have something alongside Dog Days (or other PvE events), meaning it should be active in parallel: For people who already enjoy Dog Days, that event is of course all well and good already. For me and I assume others, the event is pretty boring. I'd rather play this kind of thing against other people instead.

So the idea is to have both a PvE and PvP side to this. People who like it could play a more interesting version of the event, and others who are already happy with what it offers today wouldn't have a reason to feel forced into PvP (because of FOMO or whatever other reasons), as happened with other mini-event in the past, iirc.

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I have espoused the benefits of variant modes in the past. To add one more onto that list:

It's relatively straightforward to have a new tab in the Navigation screen that displays the currently active variant mode - or modes, since there's little reason they couldn't borrow the more streamlined look behind the Invasion and Relic tabs that are primarily text and have all of them active. There's no worry about arsenals for variant modes, after all. This also puts Conclave a little bit more to the forefront, and in a way that remains inexpensive and appropriate. (Not in your face, not all the way off to one side of the orbiter)

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as always, yeah, Variants is the closest thing to widespread adoption that Conclave ever has had and probably ever will. embracing that, well. just seems logical.

still hoping for a 'Rocket Barrage' Variant though. either Ogris only or Ogris + like uhhh.... idunno some other Rocket themed Secondary.

Edited by taiiat
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Even if some find Conclave fun to play it is no surprise to me that it has been left "untended", since it goes against the rest of game in that it is the polar opposite of "co-op". The subcontext of "dominating" the other players (and "showing off") that exists even in the co-op game modes becomes the main thing in Conclave, even going as far as rewarding players along those lines. Considering that even "co-op" gameplay is chockfull of mechanisms rewarding and enhancing helping others and trying to hinder non-"co-op" behaviour, and that DE still is continuously trying to address and improve this, it is easy to understand why Conclave is in the state it is.

Actually, one might wonder why a game mode like Conclave still exists. It has nothing to do with "honing your skills by fighting other Tenno", since the rules and weapons are different and Tenno act differently from all other enemies. But mostly it is the single game mode in Warframe that, at it's core, turn players into "losers". Conclave as a concept can't work without a player becoming a "loser" (or several players), which is quite different from failing a mission, together with other Tenno. Add to this that Conclave currently is a decidedly uneven playing field, where specific builds/weapons sourced from the internet are clearly better than other combinations and more experienced Conclave-players gets an added bonus from knowing the "arenas" and it is easy the understand the un-popularity. Any player trying Conclave will currently not "hone their skills", instead their main (and only) function is to act like "fodder".

From my perspective it is the deadest game content in Warframe, and I think the game would be better off with Conclave simply chopped off. The alternative would be to turn it into an arena where normal rules and gear apply, either going all-in and allowing the same stuff everyone has in their arsenal or going the "neutral" route, applying Grendel-mission limits on modding. Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless of who "wins". Or if the "learning by fighting with other Tenno"-principle would be applied in full the rewards would scale by some sort of "improvement measurement", giving more rewards to "noobs" making progress than to already "experienced Tenno-killers".

To sum it up: the Conclave doesn't need "variants", since the variants are all more fun than what the actual Conclave is and only underlines how "un-fun" Conclave is for the over-whelming majority of players. Instead the core Conclave should be turned into a "variant". I agree with the critique against DE that chopping Conclave off but still leaving it hanging by a thread is a (very) sub-optimal solution.

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45 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

The alternative would be to turn it into an arena where normal rules and gear apply, either going all-in and allowing the same stuff everyone has in their arsenal or going the "neutral" route, applying Grendel-mission limits on modding.

This doesn't seem like much of an improvement. More lore-accurate, perhaps, but at the cost of increased imbalance, the persistence of skill / knowledge gaps, newbies being proverbial cannon fodder, the winner / loser structure - effectively all the issues you observed in current Conclave. Some of which might be made even worse, in truth. Toxic Lash or Saryn + Lanka / Electric procs come to mind.

45 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless of who "wins". Or if the "learning by fighting with other Tenno"-principle would be applied in full the rewards would scale by some sort of "improvement measurement", giving more rewards to "noobs" making progress than to already "experienced Tenno-killers".

Tweaking the reward structure isn't new or undesired. But that's also kind of a different topic. Literally.

45 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

To sum it up: the Conclave doesn't need "variants", since the variants are all more fun than what the actual Conclave is and only underlines how "un-fun" Conclave is for the over-whelming majority of players. Instead the core Conclave should be turned into a "variant".

But this isn't an either-or situation. We can have both. Regular Conclave needs a few weapon bans and some fixes from PvE bleed-overs, but beyond making sure other bleed-overs don't seep in - and DE seems able to put at least that much effort in, based on new weapon releases - it doesn't necessarily need a huge amount of attention. It'd be nice to have newer weapons added in, but it also won't implode if that doesn't happen.

Also, real talk, we'd probably want both active for at least a healthy transition period before dumping Conclave as-is. Otherwise it's just ripping the rug out from under the players who enjoy Conclave for no reason other than to be rude. I think there's been enough shade thrown over the years.

Edited by Tyreaus
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15 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

I have espoused the benefits of variant modes in the past. ...

Going to put that into a quote because it fits very well here:

On 2021-09-13 at 1:34 AM, Tyreaus said:

This is the big thing. Or at least, y'know, any iota of half-decent attention.

My personal "best take for PvP" centres around variant modes for a few reasons.

1. Current Conclave is restrictive based on PvE progress. If you're new to Warframe, you're walking into Conclave with starter gear (setting aside current issues of actually getting that gear working in Conclave - let's just assume someone fixes that). If you happen to want to try any of the weapons other players are using, you have to farm those weapons in PvE. That basically boots players out of PvP for a fairly extended period. That's less of an issue if everyone has the same stuff available from the get-go. (This "booting" also applies to loadouts to a lesser degree: fussing with loadouts means less time spent actually playing PvP)

2. The easier it is to get players into a game, the more likely it is for them to end up in that game. We already don't have a ton of material incentive to play Conclave (resource gain is sub-par and exclusive items are a collective "meh" by most players). Wanting the pride of beating other players, or just mucking about with friends, is a fine reward. If you have to spend half an hour setting up a loadout to get to that point, you start chipping at a player's patience. (We have a number of threads talking about not finding games, after all...)

3. PvP bleed-overs are much easier to contain in variant modes (and, if players have the same gear available, are a lot less impactful to balance). An instant-kill Opticor variant doesn't need to worry about shield gating, for example. And you can easily turn off abilities and passives as development of a particular variant requires. They're pretty much their own self-contained boxes.

4. They're easy to develop new updates for. Some crazy concepts, like K-drive racing, might be more in-depth. But it also takes little to no effort to just enable the Nikana and Kunai variant, or Opticor variant, or "Stuggy Wuggy Time" variant where everyone has a Stug and the best weapon in the game gets to truly shine. You can have a virtually constant influx of new PvP content that, while superficial, is at least something new without a huge impact on PvE development. (Not only shows players the mode is getting worked on, but gives developers a little light-hearted creative outlet)

5. They're decently popular. Most players in the forums ask for variants mainly because the main Conclave mode is so broken with PvE bleed-overs. But at the same token, it's not like people hate them, and at least a few have genuinely asked for their return. A fair number of players were questioning where the PvP component was when the first Dog Days dropped. (And, as above: it gives developers a creative outlet, so they don't have to come into Conclave work only from the PoV of a bug-fixer)

And probably a bunch of player psychology stuff, like winning or losing being based solely on skill rather than equipment, the intimate knowledge that the game is balanced pretty much by nature...

 

12 hours ago, taiiat said:

as always, yeah, Variants is the closest thing to widespread adoption that Conclave ever has had and probably ever will. embracing that, well. just seems logical.

still hoping for a 'Rocket Barrage' Variant though. either Ogris only or Ogris + like uhhh.... idunno some other Rocket themed Secondary.

You must be thinking of Angstrum. 

(Then we really need Super Jump back, too! https://gfycat.com/forsakencandidcrayfish 😄)

 

9 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

This doesn't seem like much of an improvement. More lore-accurate, perhaps, but at the cost of increased imbalance, the persistence of skill / knowledge gaps, newbies being proverbial cannon fodder, the winner / loser structure - effectively all the issues you observed in current Conclave. Some of which might be made even worse, in truth. Toxic Lash or Saryn + Lanka / Electric procs come to mind.

Completely agree with this. Conclave balance has moved away from PvE balance for a very good reason. Initial Conclave 2.0 balance disallowed damage mods but still used some shared utility mods and didn't have its own. It evolved into what we have now because it made sense (minus all the bugs and problems that bled over from PvE changes with time, of course).

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1 hour ago, Kontrollo said:

You must be thinking of Angstrum. 

(Then we really need Super Jump back, too! https://gfycat.com/forsakencandidcrayfish 😄)

Angstrum was the first thing i thought of, but then i wasn't so sure about picking it since it wouldn't really offer something that different from Ogris.
but other choices like Kulstar are basically an AoE spam 'Shotgun' and that's not really in the spirit of what i'm looking for.

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22 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

But this isn't an either-or situation. We can have both. Regular Conclave needs a few weapon bans and some fixes from PvE bleed-overs, but beyond making sure other bleed-overs don't seep in - and DE seems able to put at least that much effort in, based on new weapon releases - it doesn't necessarily need a huge amount of attention. It'd be nice to have newer weapons added in, but it also won't implode if that doesn't happen.

I think you might have misunderstood me. My main point is that regular Conclave should simply be removed or just left in it's current state. It is a dead end, and a bad fit to all other Warframe content. A bad idea even at it's inception, and it has never really functioned well. It might be replaced by some improved variant, or it might not. I mainly see it as a separate game within a game, and even with the current DE input it is still mostly a drain on resources that could be used better elsewhere.

I can respect that there are a few player that likes it, but the "why" of that is beyond me. I don't play Warframe to compete against and kill my fellow Tenno, and if I wanted to compete against other humans there is a humongous amount of games that does just about everything better than the Conclave.

Edited by Graavarg
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2022-06-24 at 11:17 PM, Kontrollo said:

Context:

Years ago, Conclave had some modes that were simpler than we currently have:

  • The main one was a a oneshot mode ('instagib') with a faster-firing Opticor only. No differences between Warframes, no abilities.
     
  •  As mini-events we had the following (iirc):
    • Snowday Showdown: snowballs (similar to throwing stars) and a candy cane scythe as melee
       
    • Quick Steel: throwing stars with 2 modes and a Nikana as melee
       
    • Hearts & Arrows: Valentine's Day event with bows

Aside from that they were fun to play, from a gameplay perspective they were great for mainly two reasons:

  • They allowed anyone to hop in without having to make any configurations to their loadouts beforehand.
    • Side note: Currently, completely new players still start with only a melee the first time they try Conclave, a problem present since 2016, I think
  • They put everyone on equal footing despite what they used (not even Warframe passives were enabled)

 

Conclave has been left "without active devs" for a long time -- we're talking years here -- and issues have bled into it mainly from unrelated PvE patches -- although at least with the Zariman update one of the biggest problems has finally been addressed (fall-off bug), so thanks for this. Despite that, some of the issues mentioned in the previous thread are still present, hence why I wanted to bring it up again in there. I'm thinking about two main directions it could be taken:

 

1) Reintroducing a simplified permanent mode like the ones or in the spirit of the ones mentioned above would sidestep all those lingering problems, for one thing.

 

2) Also, it'd be great to have something alongside Dog Days (or other PvE events), meaning it should be active in parallel: For people who already enjoy Dog Days, that event is of course all well and good already. For me and I assume others, the event is pretty boring. I'd rather play this kind of thing against other people instead.

So the idea is to have both a PvE and PvP side to this. People who like it could play a more interesting version of the event, and others who are already happy with what it offers today wouldn't have a reason to feel forced into PvP (because of FOMO or whatever other reasons), as happened with other mini-event in the past, iirc.

I'm all for variants. Heck even make it even more frequent. Halloween event with claws. 4th of july being ogris launching. Canada day having the same (week long event.) 

st patrick's day being all staffs (and skin it to look like a gnarled wooden staff.) 

Arbor Day using a new loka loadout (tigris + Magistar?)

And on and on.

Add frame fighter as a way to onramp people who want to have a few quick matches with some standing gain (my initial idea was 1k standard, + 1.5k to the winner) but tweak for match length averages?

And there is the frame racing scene that I've seen some youtubers do. So why not canonize that? Given at least one of the zariman tiles outright has a track area. It's obviously something done pre-accident.

Sure conclave isn't a priority but give people options that arne't 'here you must be able to snipe in a hurricane if you want any sort of decent standing gain otherwise you are a mobile target we WILL mock and dog to hell for existing because you are a mobile points bag that will get NOTHING in standing gain' because that is super demotivating. 

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On 2022-07-21 at 2:32 AM, ABlindGuyPlays said:

I'm all for variants. Heck even make it even more frequent. Halloween event with claws. 4th of july being ogris launching. Canada day having the same (week long event.) 

st patrick's day being all staffs (and skin it to look like a gnarled wooden staff.) 

Arbor Day using a new loka loadout (tigris + Magistar?)

And on and on.

Add frame fighter as a way to onramp people who want to have a few quick matches with some standing gain (my initial idea was 1k standard, + 1.5k to the winner) but tweak for match length averages?

And there is the frame racing scene that I've seen some youtubers do. So why not canonize that? Given at least one of the zariman tiles outright has a track area. It's obviously something done pre-accident.

Sure conclave isn't a priority but give people options that arne't 'here you must be able to snipe in a hurricane if you want any sort of decent standing gain otherwise you are a mobile target we WILL mock and dog to hell for existing because you are a mobile points bag that will get NOTHING in standing gain' because that is super demotivating. 

I don't know about Frame Fighter. Last I played it must've been years ago, so not sure if anything has changed - but I think it has/d some very obvious flaws for a fighting game. It'd definitely need some polish first.

(Although obviously, the same can be said about Conclave itself these days, with all the problems/bugs/exploits that have bled into it from PvE changes.)

Racing was probably in consideration at some point, I think back in 2019 or 2020 they mentioned in a stream a sort of "track and field" / "warframekart". Nothing ever came of that, either.

Well, there's a difference between "not a priority" and "not or barely ever fixing bugs and problems from unrelated patches" in my opinion. But yes, on top of that, Conclave is also very hard to get into because of a very high skill ceiling. Not going to go into giving tips/advice here, there are videos and discords for that.

Have you actually been mocked, though? If so, general Warframe behaviour policies still apply - mute/report if required.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2022-06-25 at 12:11 AM, Graavarg said:

Even if some find Conclave fun to play it is no surprise to me that it has been left "untended", since it goes against the rest of game in that it is the polar opposite of "co-op". The subcontext of "dominating" the other players (and "showing off") that exists even in the co-op game modes becomes the main thing in Conclave, even going as far as rewarding players along those lines. Considering that even "co-op" gameplay is chockfull of mechanisms rewarding and enhancing helping others and trying to hinder non-"co-op" behaviour, and that DE still is continuously trying to address and improve this, it is easy to understand why Conclave is in the state it is.

Actually, one might wonder why a game mode like Conclave still exists. It has nothing to do with "honing your skills by fighting other Tenno", since the rules and weapons are different and Tenno act differently from all other enemies. But mostly it is the single game mode in Warframe that, at it's core, turn players into "losers". Conclave as a concept can't work without a player becoming a "loser" (or several players), which is quite different from failing a mission, together with other Tenno. Add to this that Conclave currently is a decidedly uneven playing field, where specific builds/weapons sourced from the internet are clearly better than other combinations and more experienced Conclave-players gets an added bonus from knowing the "arenas" and it is easy the understand the un-popularity. Any player trying Conclave will currently not "hone their skills", instead their main (and only) function is to act like "fodder".

From my perspective it is the deadest game content in Warframe, and I think the game would be better off with Conclave simply chopped off. The alternative would be to turn it into an arena where normal rules and gear apply, either going all-in and allowing the same stuff everyone has in their arsenal or going the "neutral" route, applying Grendel-mission limits on modding. Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless of who "wins". Or if the "learning by fighting with other Tenno"-principle would be applied in full the rewards would scale by some sort of "improvement measurement", giving more rewards to "noobs" making progress than to already "experienced Tenno-killers".

To sum it up: the Conclave doesn't need "variants", since the variants are all more fun than what the actual Conclave is and only underlines how "un-fun" Conclave is for the over-whelming majority of players. Instead the core Conclave should be turned into a "variant". I agree with the critique against DE that chopping Conclave off but still leaving it hanging by a thread is a (very) sub-optimal solution.

Warframe is a co-op game in the same way a sniper in battlefield that sits on top of a mountain and gets 3 sick cross map head shots ending the match 3-0 is playing with his teammates. 

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10 hours ago, (XBOX)ConfusingEel30 said:

Warframe is a co-op game in the same way a sniper in battlefield that sits on top of a mountain and gets 3 sick cross map head shots ending the match 3-0 is playing with his teammates.

Yes, that is a good description of random PUGs, especially if you happen to get one of those players wanting "most kills" and then explains wiping the map/mission clean of enemies by themselves as "helping the other players". 🙂

But there is another side to co-op: occasionally you happen to get syncing abilities/playstyles even in random squads, and have you never played with friends using a pre-designed squad (builds, setups & roles)?

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  • 2 weeks later...

as someone who played quick steel and actually enjoyed it I wouldn't mind having it come back, but I would like to see the k/d ratio be disabled from profiles entirely as I know I will push myself too hard to make it look good, I hate games who have those but that's just me

On 2022-08-07 at 8:40 AM, Graavarg said:

Yes, that is a good description of random PUGs, especially if you happen to get one of those players wanting "most kills" and then explains wiping the map/mission clean of enemies by themselves as "helping the other players". 🙂

But there is another side to co-op: occasionally you happen to get syncing abilities/playstyles even in random squads, and have you never played with friends using a pre-designed squad (builds, setups & roles)?

obvious skill issues aside, what is that player supposed to do? wait for everyone else to get a sizeable amount of kills so as to not hurt their ego? i'm not trying to defend wukong aoe meta users(though you really don't need that to carry a team) it's just the way these missions like exterminate are set up with what weapons and frames the game has given you, whoever is the most efficient and quickest will just blaze through the tiles leaving everyone else behind

if you try to introduce more team reliant gameplay like in left 4 dead then that will stall progression and create a festering toxic environment when others can't keep up or aren't as good nor experienced as seen in LoR raids, perhaps if you split the objectives and the team up, let everyone else do their thing it might solve this issue but at that point it may start to look like lengthy railjack missions and nobody even plays on those anymore besides rj fissure survival

Edited by ZenDash
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12 hours ago, ZenDash said:

obvious skill issues aside, what is that player supposed to do? wait for everyone else to get a sizeable amount of kills so as to not hurt their ego? i'm not trying to defend wukong aoe meta users(though you really don't need that to carry a team) it's just the way these missions like exterminate are set up with what weapons and frames the game has given you, whoever is the most efficient and quickest will just blaze through the tiles leaving everyone else behind

My comment wasn't about SP, and not focus on Exterminate-missions either. It was mainly about those players feeling a need to bring SP-gear to normal starchart missions. As to "ego", the question is why someone feels the need to do that and to explicitly select a random PUG squad to do it in. In an Exterminate those three other players are not needed for anything, except as spectators to the "wonderfulness" of the player in question. Who, btw, doesn't seem to care a bit about turning them from "players" into "spectators".

In other missions the excess killing potential simply isn't needed for anything, except racking up kill percentages. And again, while one might wonder where the need for that comes from I am pretty sure it does not arise from the ego of the other three players.

Finally, hiding this kind of behaviour behind an "effectiveness" argument (which some players are doing) is just silly. If you analyze that just a tiny bit deeper "ego" pops up again, though in that case it is about one player joining three random others in a co-op mission but taking it on himself/herself to decide how the team should play. In advance, without consulting the other players. If that isn't egocentric (which, as one might guess, is all about ego) then what is?

Playing Warframe, and gaming in general, is about having fun. Sometimes fun can also be about being effective, but that is not something one player can unilaterally decide for the others on a team. If you really want to help other players and Warframe as a game, you should help other players have fun. But as to "ego", making an active choice to play with other players and maximizing your own fun while completely disregarding theirs really is quite "ego"-centric...

Edited by Graavarg
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  • 2 months later...
On 2022-06-24 at 6:17 PM, Kontrollo said:

Also, it'd be great to have something alongside Dog Days (or other PvE events), meaning it should be active in parallel: For people who already enjoy Dog Days, that event is of course all well and good already. For me and I assume others, the event is pretty boring. I'd rather play this kind of thing against other people instead.

So the idea is to have both a PvE and PvP side to this. People who like it could play a more interesting version of the event, and others who are already happy with what it offers today wouldn't have a reason to feel forced into PvP (because of FOMO or whatever other reasons), as happened with other mini-event in the past, iirc.

Yea ive been wanting a dog days pvp event too. Literally just scrap out the npcs and put us in. Would be so fun. 

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On 2022-06-26 at 12:34 AM, Graavarg said:

... even with the current DE input it is still mostly a drain on resources that could be used better elsewhere.

You are aware that at the height of its maintenance (post-launch), the maximum amount of people working on Conclave was two people part-time? Even at the time (pre-PoE), that was probably less than 1% of the company. A project that can be successfully maintained by two people on the side is probably similar to the current state of Frame Fighter. And according to dedicated server hosts, it should take even less than that to re-enable a variant.

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1 hour ago, standardheadache said:

You are aware that at the height of its maintenance (post-launch), the maximum amount of people working on Conclave was two people part-time? Even at the time (pre-PoE), that was probably less than 1% of the company. A project that can be successfully maintained by two people on the side is probably similar to the current state of Frame Fighter. And according to dedicated server hosts, it should take even less than that to re-enable a variant.

No, I wasn't aware. But it figures, and I don't think it really matters. Regardless of whether it is a dedicated team or 10% of a singled-out dev, it is all about "return on effort".

I also think two things/facts are pretty clear: (1) DE does not consider additional effort into the Conclave "worth it" (since that isn't happening), and (2) there are a lot of issues with the Conclave that need fixing/implementing. There are only two solutions to the current "Conclave left mostly hanging"-state, one is to transfer the current effort, small as it is, to something else (and maybe shut down the Conclave as well) and the other is to transfer more resources to handling all the Conclave issues (and maybe expand on the Conclave concept as well).

I cannot say what is better for Warframe, for "everyone" or for DE, but my personal opinion is that DE should go for the first option. Currently the Conclave does not seem to engage a lot of players, and a lot of "matches" can be classified as "actual noob-slaughter". A few elite Conclave-players with specially trimmed Conclave-setups gathering standing and/or having fun by feeding off less equipped and less experienced players is (in my book) detrimental and antithetical to Warframe's general co-op "we all lift together"-concept.

If DE would go for the second option, the Conclave desperately needs a handicap system that would effectively cancel out all gear & experience advantage and/or a system that would simply block uneven match-ups from even happening (the "Recruit Conditioning" only works up to a point, and you basically have to turn it off to find any opponents). 

Edited by Graavarg
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On 2022-11-11 at 4:33 AM, Graavarg said:

... the other is to transfer more resources to handling all the Conclave issues...

This is the current direction, shipping with Lua's Prey. It's several backlogged fixes due for several years, several of which are known to be changing a boolean. The return on investment is the possible return of the pre-PoE Conclave community and engagement from new players who came to the game for PvP. Usually fixes like this spike the Conclave population upwards, and further work would be welcome, including additional low-effort "fixes" like reintroducing a variant. Dedicated server hosts state that they are given the option to still host variant matches and are willing to do so.

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On 2022-11-10 at 10:19 PM, (XBOX)GameGhost123 said:

Yea ive been wanting a dog days pvp event too. Literally just scrap out the npcs and put us in. Would be so fun. 

omg this. This sounds so much fun! Maybe only do it around the time Dog Days is out but have it be an option to get the pearls as well as some conclave standing.

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