July 2022 Riven Dispositions

[[DE]Connor]

Greetings Tenno, and happy TennoCon Week!

Due to TennoCon build restrictions, we’re making our Riven Disposition changes a little early. Our next Prime Access will be coming soon, but you’ll have to tune into TennoCon on Saturday July 16th to learn more!

Don’t forget about our Riven Disposition Guidelines, posted recently to keep everyone informed on our process for making these changes.

Thanks for reading!

RIFLES

Spoiler

Aeolak: 0.5->0.85

Alternox: 0.5->0.8

Ambassador: 1.05->1.1

Fulmin: 0.75->0.8

Kuva Karak: 1->1.05

Kuva Ogris: 0.75->0.7

Nagantaka Prime: 0.5->0.8

Nataruk: 0.55->0.6

Phenmor: 0.5->0.6

Quellor: 1.1->1.15

Tenet Flux Rifle: 0.9->0.95

Tenet Tetra: 1->1.1

Trumna: 0.8->0.85

Tombfinger (primary): 0.95->1

Vermisplicer (primary): 0.85->0.9

SHOTGUNS

Spoiler

Arca Plasmor: 0.9->0.95

Astilla Prime: 1.05->1.1

Bubonico: 0.7->0.75

Corinth Prime: 0.95->1

Kuva Drakgoon: 1.1->1.15

Felarx: 0.5->0.6

Kuva Hek: 0.85->0.9

Kuva Kohm: 0.85->0.9

Strun Prime: 0.9->1.1

Tigris Prime: 0.9->0.95

SECONDARY

Spoiler

Akarius: 1.0->0.95

Akstiletto Prime: 0.75->0.8

Athodai: 1->1.05

Cyanex: 0.9->0.95

Synoid Gammacor: 1.05->1.1

Knell Prime: 1.05->0.85

Kompressa: 1->1.1

Magnus Prime: 0.8->1

Pandero Prime: 1->1.05

Sepulcrum: 1->1.05

Sicarus Prime: 1.1->1.15

Staticor: 0.75->0.8

Tenet Diplos: 0.65->0.7

Tenet Spirex: 0.8->0.85

MELEE

Spoiler

Arum Spinosa: 1.15->1.2

Atterax: 1.1->1.15

Ceti Lacera: 1.15->1.2

Cyath: 0.9->0.95

Furax Wraith: 1.3->1.15

Galatine Prime: 0.85->0.9

Ghoulsaw: 0.85->1

Hespar: 0.5->0.65

Jat Kusar: 1.15->1.2

Keratinos: 1->1.05

Korumm: 0.75->0.85

Lesion: 0.75->0.8

Masseter: 1.2->1.25

Nepheri: 0.7->0.85

Ohma: 1.2->1.25

Praedos: 0.5->0.55

Rakta Dark Dagger: 0.95->1

Rumblejack: 0.8->1

Sarpa: 1.24->1.15

Scindo Prime: 1.25->1.3

Sigma & Octantis: 1->1.05

Silva & Aegis: 1.15->1.2
Silva & Aegis Prime: 1->1.05

Tenet Agendus: 0.75->0.8

Tenet Exec: 0.7->0.75

Tenet Grigori: 0.7->0.8

Tenet Livia: 0.65->0.7

Venato: 0.85->1.1

Verdilac: 0.75->0.9

Vitrica: 1->1.05

Volnus Prime: 1.1->1.15

ARCHGUNS

Spoiler

Corvas Prime: 0.5->0.7

Imperator Vandal: 0.9->0.95

Kuva Ayanga: 1->0.95

Phaedra: 1.2->1.25

[Numerounius]

Damn A bunch of shotguns getting buffed? Don't mind if I do!

Akarius getting nerfed? Expected

But Knell Prime? I heard that it become a de-facto eidolon weapon of choice so that is probably why it got hit so hard despite being a very recent release. Haven't looked into it too much but I guess I have to now.

Nothing on Zenith? Thank god the eidolon community didn't ruin that weapon for PT runners.

Tenet Diplos would have wanted higher but still something for profit taker.

Sarpa Nerf? That is strange given we have the vasilok for armor strip

Nothing on the high end dispo melees? It will be interesting to see how this unfolds moving forward with Khora Prime and her whipclaw ability.

Furax Wraith?- Why are we nerfing weapons for reasons other than their power level? Since the main reason for its heavy usage is [amalgram furax body count] I fear this is going to become a serious issue after Khora Prime releases when people use weapons regardless of their power level.

Archguns, Pretty small list nothing major here. Ayanga getting nerfed by 0.05 isn't that crazy. Corvas might see some use.

Companion weapons, ofc there is nothing here. Sadly the same is also true for Arch-Melee since they are so forgotten about they don't even have rivens.

[Inquizitor]

Nerfing Furax Wraith dispo because AoE spammers abuses the Amalgam Furax Body Count, but not actually even using the Furax itself. Yea, wonderful balancing logic there.

[TheLordOmega2]

Le 07/07/2022 à 22:45, [DE]Connor a dit :

Knell Prime: 1.05->0.85

 

Fun is not allowed, as usual...

[kulow]

at least you didn't nerv shedu 3 times in a row instead of fixing obvious non functional armcannons all together..

[Amolistic.]

Wohoo, my cc cd heat sepulcrum riven is smiling after this update. akarius getting nerfed in dispo again, uhh plus nerfing the dispo of furax wraith isnt going to fix tho, its just better just nerf the mod instead of nerfing the dispo, 

And out of my surprise, nataruk is getting its dispo buffed again, wow. 

[Tololo]

lol aoe furax saw it coming
and ogris aswell
glad theresnt muh nerfs
wouldve been anoyed if they nerfed my baby zarr
akuris was good while it lasted

[(PSN)EnigmaticPulse]

Not sure why Furax Wraith was exactly nerfed (again). It isn't used as a standard weapon...nor a standard stat-stick.

You might as well nerf the regular furax and Mk-1 furax to the lowest disposition.

See y'all at tennocon. 

 

[Epsilon_Knight]

6 minutes ago, TheLordOmega2 said:

Fun is not allowed, as usual...

The gun doesn't need it, tbh.  Anything you're reliably headshotting is still going to get deleted.

[AlienGuy666]

i dont mind because i have no useable rivens especially of these

[I.V.A.R.A]

Lol quite a few of these nerfs are just player usage. Not the weapon being too powerful. Shows exactly why you shouldn't nerf weapons because people use them... No logic to that at all. 

Furax used for AOE, sarpa used for armor strip by those who don't have vastilok (and angels needing it done), etc. 

But at least I can finally use some of the prime weapons I've been waiting to use for 6 months, because 4 dispo changes a year. Since primes are usually barely an upgrade these days and never have gimmicks anymore, it'd make sense for them to start with same dispo as non primed like it used to be. Because usage won't change that much in something like Strun, Magnus, Nagantaka, etc. Brand new weapons? Sure 1/5. But making people wait 6 months for the prime version with 2% increases actually have acceptable dispo is idiotic. Worst of all... That change did nothing. People still sell and buy 0.5 dispo for the same prices. 

[gamingchair1121]

13 minutes ago, I.V.A.R.A said:

Since primes are usually barely an upgrade these days

fun fact: if de started all primes at their normal's dispo more people would buy the prime access because if you have a godroll for the base why use the prime if the prime is just going to be worse? on release, the prime should be more powerful than the base, right? (and tbh the prime should always be more powerful than the base so why give them separate dispos unless there is a huge power difference)

[PainisDeWitt]

Kind of weird nerfing Furax's dispo given how you don't even need to use the weapon to use its interaction with Amalgam Body count lol

[gamingchair1121]

ngl kinda sus nerfing both ogris and furax just in time for the resource booster (because arbitrations one of the best ways to get kuva)

[Oorel]

On 2022-07-14 at 5:08 PM, gamingchair1121 said:

fun fact: if de started all primes at their normal's dispo more people would buy the prime access because if you have a godroll for the base why use the prime if the prime is just going to be worse? on release, the prime should be more powerful than the base, right? (and tbh the prime should always be more powerful than the base so why give them separate dispos unless there is a huge power difference)

I would prefer that, feels right.

In general I think there should simply be a judgement call on new weapons because some are clearly not 0.5 and will be much higher, so its just a matter of time. its a bit tedious knowing that its going to take a year for some weapons dispo to end up were they should've been initially.

 

On 2022-07-14 at 5:19 PM, gamingchair1121 said:

ngl kinda sus nerfing both ogris and furax just in time for the resource booster (because arbitrations one of the best ways to get kuva)

Ogris can still hit a nice multi roll, its not a big deal. lets face it, we all knew ogris was getting nerfed. furax is weird though.

[DryMind]

Furax and sarpa nerf - is just joke. LoL.

People use them not cuz they have huge damage numbers, people use them cuz they are good when you put utility mods on them.

 

This nerf changes nothing, only affect 1% of people who love this weapons design and use them as damage weapon (which will be quiet bad even with 2.0 dispo), not 99% people who actually use them.

[Voltage]

You guys realize people only use Furax Wraith as a stat stick with the Amalgam Mod right?

[gamingchair1121]

2 minutes ago, DryMind said:

Furax and sarpa nerf - is just joke. LoL.

People use them not cuz they have huge damage numbers, people use them cuz they are good when you put utility mods on them.

 

This nerf changes nothing, only affect people who love this weapons design and use them as damage weapon (which will be quiet bad even with 2.0 dispo), not 99% people who actually use them.

yet another reason why de needs to make dispo rely on a weapons power and not usage for some reason

[rainy]

On 2022-07-07 at 4:45 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Tenet Flux Rifle: 0.9->0.95

I don't know how this isn't 1.5. Normal Flux Rifle performs exceedingly better due to being a beam and because of the Flux Overdrive nerf on Tenet Flux since its release, the only thing that made Tenet Flux comparable at the time. Having a riven for them puts normal flux an order of magnitude ahead of Tenet.

I'm surprised Phenmor and Felarx both got +0.1. At least Laetum is sitting at 0.5, unless 0.45 is possible?

A lot of these dispositions are still questionable if you view their strength relatively.

• This shotgun buff still feels like the aftermath of their huge status nerf from Warframe Revised, many of their statuses are literally not viable for DoTs. Only by using mods like HM which can use the larger Critical Chance numbers (Critical Chance is not divided by pellet count, because that would be insane) can they even approach what they could do before. Most shotguns cap the flat status effects in a shot or two anyways, whether they have 5% SC/pellet or 50% SC/pellet, this will not change, so why does their status damage need to be gimped?
• Assault rifles still have average dispositions, but Phenmor outclasses all of them by a massive margin, yet it gets +0.1.
• Beams still have insanely overscaled dispositions; Spectra, Phantasma, Flux, Convectrix, Phage, Quanta Vandal...  Funnily the beam shotguns have what other shotguns wish they still had: status damage that is not divided by innate pellet count.
• Machete Wraith is by far the best Machete in its class (not counting Zaws, but probably still the best), it has a 1.4 disposition because the class itself is very weak. The rest of machetes, even at 1.5, could never come close. So why do Kreska and Prova Vandal, inferior machetes, have lower dispositions? This issue is present across many weapon classes, what is going on? Normal Stradavar, 1.1?? Akstilleto Prime, 0.75, yet Kuva Twin Stubbas has 0.85?? How can Akarius still have higher dispo than Staticor? Will the introduction of Laetum inflate the disposition of the rest of Secondary weapons?

Also since the introduction of rivens, certain base stats have been improved with superior mods, mostly for shotguns. Critical Deceleration on shotguns provides +200% Critical Chance, but the rivens still base their CC on blunderbuss, only 90% CC. Primed Ammo stock and Primed Tactical Pump are the same, with bonuses almost double their original that rivens are still based on. Primed Rubedo-Lined Barrel provides +187% damage, but the rivens only provide +100%. I think the last time riven stats were adjusted was when Sacrificial Steel was introduced and buffed for melee weapons after the blood rush change. Other stats that had primed mods at the time either have a compromise of their stats used on rivens or their full stats. Those mods included: Primed Point Blank, Primed Pressure Point, Primed Fury, Primed Pistol Gambit, Primed Target Cracker, Primed Ravage, Primed reload mods, Primed Faction mods, and Primed Magazine mods. Will these ever be adjusted?

25 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Nothing on the high end dispo melees? It will be interesting to see how this unfolds moving forward with Khora Prime and her whipclaw ability.

Don't forget that the lich melees apply their multiplier now to psuedo exalteds (intended, shockingly), many people seem to overlook this. It only doesn't help Khora if she's focusing on Slash (unless using lich impact -imp riven). Tenet Grigori and Tenet Agendus now lead lich melees in this area after today's adjustment, and I think people will find they overwhelmingly defeat the traditional stat sticks if both have rivens, especially on Atlas and Gara who have less multipliers to work with.

[danitot]

On 2022-07-07 at 10:45 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Furax Wraith: 1.3->1.15

DE: re-release an event, where you can obtain a specific melee weapon (Furax Wraith) from the reward pool.
Also DE: nerfs the above mentioned melees riven disposition because of the spike of usage ( possibly from leveling it up as a lot of newer played did not had it).

<*Slow clappin' intensifies*>

[(PSN)Big-Swole601]

Wow Nerfed Orgis glad im finally MR 30 and can leave this game.  

[XennethKeisere]

Thanks for buffing Kompressa.

NOW FIX THE DAMN THING SO IT ACTUALLY WORKS RIGHT!!

Not to mention the stacking bug, the Index energy spawns breaking when using Dispensary bug, etc. etc. You got your work cut out for you guys, neglecting bug fixes just cuz TennoCon is around the corner. =\

[Prisma_Excalibur_Prime]

This is probably gonna be one of my hottest warframe takes in a long while, if you disagree with me, by all means let's discuss it, just don't be an asshat about it

these dispositions are the result of balancing being based on the usage popularity of a given weapon by players of high Mastery Rank and internal rankings based on the "strength" of a weapon according to the wiki. But it seems very obvious, especially based on the changes in this patch, that it's primarily the "usage popularity" part which determines a rivens strength. Basically, the cumulative  % of players simply equipping a certain weapon for "use" in missions. This is inherently flawed because this is not a reliable metric to measure a weapons strength in a game where combat efficiency is affected by so many variables

On the surface, sure, the powerful meta weapons get used more often, so the disposition will be lower and in theory isn't as worthwhile as the potential for a much stronger riven in a lesser used/weaker weapon. But this falls apart when you realise meta weapons perform just inherently so much better that it makes rivens for weaker guns are basically pointless outside of utility picks, because why bother with a stronger riven for a weak weapon, when you could have a mediocre riven for an insane weapon? the curernt meta weapon picks literally prove this point and have done for months if not years, especially since Warframe has evolved into a horde-kill-everything-as-fast-as-possible-shooter over the years

And on the subject of utility weapons picks, we end up with situations like this, with these disposition changes in this patch, where we have weapons with super niché usages like stat-sticks, or the utility behind the Furax's amalgam mod, as a great example. The rivens for these weapons get nerfed because they have high "usage popularity", but in-game they're not actually being used as normal weapons. They're being used solely to buff some other already better weapon or ability. This gameplay strat isn't the problem, but because dispos are based on "usage", it basically results in the rivens of weaker/less used weapons being made worse than they potentially should be, which defeats the purpose of rivens being made to give these weaker less meta weapons a chance to truly shine. The weapon is still weak because the riven is now weaker than it should be. You've taken away the chance for weak weapons to be strong just because it's being used to fill a different need of buffing a completely different weapon.  And depending on the weapon, it doesn't necessarily mean the It's even being "used" at all, just brought with into a mission at minimum because of mods with passive buffs like Amalgam Furax and the Vigilante mod set.

Dispositions should be based on something else entirely, or even just remove the "usage popularity" from the disposition criteria and have them judged solely on the "internal rankings based on the strength of a weapon", for example the potential burst/sustained DPS of a weapons base stats.

This would:

1. Truly expose which weapons are actually piss weak mastery fodder because they'd finally get reliably decent and strength rivens to bring them up to the higher potential of current meta choices
2. Actually encourage varied weapon picks across the board as people experiment with typically weaker weapons and realise "hey, the miter isn't just a meme with bubble pop utility, it's actually viable now" Because all weapons would, at the very least, be able to kill basic enemies in all content the game has to offer
3. Weapons picked for utility reasons would still be picked for utility because of their utility, except now they're also able to at least support the player in a normal gameplay environment outside of whatever one specific mission you were originally using it for
4. The riven market could stabilise. Rivens for meta/utility weapons would still be high because of their weapons innate meta strengths, but rivens for others would stop fluctuating because they'd just all have the potential to be a good riven. You could still charge high/low prices for specific rivens with specific stats based on how much effort you put into rolling it a hundred times to get those stats, and there would still be people who would willingly pay higher prices to skip stat rolling altogether to just buy your "god roll"   

I want to stress, my issue isn't with how weapons are used, by all means have your utility weapons and stat-sticks, it's with rivens being based on a misrepresented statistic which causes a weapon power imbalance that rivens were meant to be the fix for.

_{Also, let us lock certain stats for a high kuva/resource cost when we roll them g'damn.} 

[(NSW)jhj82]

lol why even nerf sarpa/furax?? People who are using them are only using them for utility. I'm sure 99.9% of users don't have a catalyst on them

Stupid choices as usual

[wirecard]

31 minutes ago, XennethKeisere said:

stacking bug,

if you mean this stack decay bug affecting galvanized mods and primary/secondary arcanes, the patchnotes say its fixed. however i didnt test ingame yet.

if you didnt mean this, please lmk what you actually meant :)