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So...what exactly is Soulframe about?


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We know Soulframe is DE's attempt to make a challenging game. Will this phrase commonly be used as a counter argument by the "Muh Power Fantasy" crowd every time someone screams balance in Warframe? I've already seen phrases like this coming out in recent threads.

On the other side, will the phrase like "If you don't want challenge, PLAY WARFRAME!", will be used often in the upcoming Soulframe community every time someone said the game is too hard and challenging?

 

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Probably, but so far I don't think anyone but Steve knows what Soulframe will be DE's attempt at doing. It could be super easy too for all we know, and you just hike around reading poems at people and they applaud you if they found it intrinsically meaningful. Meanwhile DE's still saying they want to do challenge and endgame with Warframe. 🤷‍♀️

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Just now, RazerXPrime said:

Do we know this?

Soulframe is the opposite of Warframe, the one thing standing out is the slow paced combat. Slow-paced combat games generally punish players who are careless and impatient (which is a trait among Warframe player nowadays) and challenging. I don't know any slow-paced game that is easy. If you do, please tell me.

 

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Probably, but so far I don't think anyone but Steve knows what Soulframe will be DE's attempt at doing. It could be super easy too for all we know, and you just hike around reading poems at people and they applaud you if they found it intrinsically meaningful. Meanwhile DE's still saying they want to do challenge and endgame with Warframe. 🤷‍♀️

I am becoming more skeptical with DE making Warframe challenging. Sure, we will have challenge, but DE will just dumb it down after player outrage.

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Just now, DrivaMain said:

Soulframe is the opposite of Warframe, the one thing standing out is the slow paced combat. Slow-paced combat games generally punish players who are careless and impatient (which is a trait among Warframe player nowadays) and challenging. I don't know any slow-paced game that is easy. If you do, please tell me.

How do you know all this? I don't think any battlesystem has even been developed yet.

Not sure about this slow paced discussion you're trying to launch. It's like you're saying a fast paced game cannot be challenging. But you're talking about gameplay pace and experience. You're avoiding the topic. It should require skill and have a higher ceiling depending on encounters or difficulty modes. Challenging is not a game mode or what makes a game hard. It's what you feel when the game requires you to apply a specific skill that is tough to master with little margin for error. Gameplay pace can influence this, but not necessarily.

I think Skyrim is slow paced. That game is very easy. You can write a book full of slow paced easy games. It's not the gameplay speed that matters like I said. It's the margin for error that makes a huge difference.

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10 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

How do you know all this? I don't think any battlesystem has even been developed yet.

Not sure about this slow paced discussion you're trying to launch. It's like you're saying a fast paced game cannot be challenging. But you're talking about gameplay pace and experience. You're avoiding the topic. It should require skill and have a higher ceiling depending on encounters or difficulty modes. Challenging is not a game mode or what makes a game hard. It's what you feel when the game requires you to apply a specific skill that is tough to master with little margin for error. Gameplay pace can influence this, but not necessarily.

I think Skyrim is slow paced. That game is very easy. You can write a book full of slow paced easy games. It's not the gameplay speed that matters like I said. It's the margin for error that makes a huge difference.

Because those are literal Steve's words:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2022/07/16/soulframe-warframe-digital-extremes-elden-ring/

Quote

Steve Sinclair, who is stepping down from his decade-long tenure as “Warframe” director to help lead the new project, told The Washington Post the game will share “Warframe’s” focus on cooperative player-vs-environment combat and procedurally generated environments, but it will be “the mirror universe version of ‘Warframe.’ ”

 

This applies to setting: “Warframe” is a unique, flesh-mech-powered spin on the sci-fi genre; “Soulframe” will be a suitably strange take on fantasy. It’ll also apply to gameplay.

 

“Where ‘Warframe’ is focused on shooting, this one’s focused on melee,” Sinclair said. “Where ‘Warframe’ is super fast and crazy high-speed, this one’s going to be a lot more slow and heavy. But it still has a lot of similarities to the genre that we have experience in.”

BTW, the "slow" aspect is about the combat tho, using Skyrim as an argument to talk about slow paced combat it's like talking about Mario Kart for racing simulators.

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5 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

I'm not seeing the slow and challenging part, but maybe that's just me. Gameplay being slower and heavier than Warframe tells us nothing really. You can make a bunch of assumptions, but that's all they are. We've also never had a game dev say one thing and then dev something different. That just doesn't happen.

Did Steve say this in the stream? I may have missed it.

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2 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

I'm not seeing the slow and challenging part, but maybe that's just me. Gameplay being slower and heavier than Warframe tells us nothing really. You can make a bunch of assumptions, but that's all they are. We've also never had a game dev say one thing and then dev something different. That just doesn't happen.

I guess we use the word litteral for different things.

Well, remove the word challenge and then you get the mirror sister of warframe focused on melee, slow paced combat and exploration

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8 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

BTW, the "slow" aspect is about the combat tho, using Skyrim as an argument to talk about slow paced combat it's like talking about Mario Kart for racing simulators.

Why would skyrim be a bad example? Because it proves my point and you don't like it? Because you think Skyrim's combat system is trash (it is)?

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Just now, vanaukas said:

Well, remove the word challenge and then you get the mirror sister of warframe focused on melee, slow paced combat and exploration

Ok so it's assumptions then. That's fine. I just thought I missed some information. But I haven't.

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3 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Why would skyrim be a bad example? Because it proves my point and you don't like it? Because you think Skyrim's combat system is trash (it is)?

It doens't prove any point of you, Skyrim is a slow game because it's a huge RPG, not because the combat it's methofical or requires any skill. The fact that the community sill has to make mods to make it bareable tells a lot obout how awful it is.

See it for yourself:

1 minute ago, RazerXPrime said:

Ok so it's assumptions then. That's fine. I just thought I missed some information. But I haven't.

None of what I've said it's assumption tho. I literally put th link and even quoted Steve words in case you hit the WP paywall.

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Just now, vanaukas said:

It doens't prove any point of you, Skyrim is a slow game because it's a huge RPG, not because the combat it's methofical or requires any skill. The fact that the community sill has to make mods to make it bareable tells a lot obout how awful it is.

See it for yourself:

 

I'm not sure you and I are having the same conversation. The combat in Skyrim is slow. OP asked to give a slow-paced combat game that was easy. I presented one. And there's plenty more too. I'm getting kind of lost with all the strawmans here. What are you talking about?

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They're going to be different experiences. My #1 concern is the release schedule for updates relating to both games.

IF they can get a release flow/loop where both games scheduled updates in between eachother....it'll be such a great move for both games long term health.

 Here's a tweet with a bit more info.

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Just now, RazerXPrime said:

I'm not sure you and I are having the same conversation. The combat in Skyrim is slow. OP asked to give a slow-paced combat game that was easy. I presented one. And there's plenty more too. I'm getting kind of lost with all the strawmans here. What are you talking about?

Because you are doing an awful comparision. Combat in Skyrim is not "slow and methodical" as they are trying to make, based (again) on the dev words and the trailer shown. Are you really comparing what we saw with Skyrim? I think the "Elden ring" comparision, while cynical, it's more fair.

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5 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Because you are doing an awful comparision. Combat in Skyrim is not "slow and methodical" as they are trying to make, based (again) on the dev words and the trailer shown. Are you really comparing what we saw with Skyrim? I think the "Elden ring" comparision, while cynical, it's more fair.

I haven't seen any in game combat footage. Have you seen some actual gameplay footage that I have missed? All we have is some of Steve's ideas and a trailer. Tells us nothing really of what the final product will be. Well other than it will be slower than Warframe. Possibly. I think I'll reserve my opinon on it when I see some actual gameplay footage.

I don't have to compare combat styles. OP asked for a slow paced combat game that was easy and I presented one.

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4 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

I don't have to compare combat styles. OP asked for a slow paced combat game that was easy and I presented one.

Based on this, I still find it to be more "attention demanding" than Warframe today. Yes, different genres and easier than the likes of the Soulsborne genre, I know, but you need to watch your surroundings more. Content that requires more attention than usual in Warframe is considered challenging by a good sum of players nowadays. 

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5 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Based on this, I still find it to be more "attention demanding" than Warframe today. Yes, different genres and easier than the likes of the Soulsborne genre, I know, but you need to watch your surroundings more. Content that requires more attention than usual in Warframe is considered challenging by a good sum of players nowadays. 

Says more about the players haha. 

I was also going to offer you Resident Evil 4, 5 and 6. Very slow paced games and also easy. Sure, they are more "difficult" than Warframe, but that's not a good point of reference I think.

Also got Valheim for you. Nice quaint little game. Slow paced combat with dodging, blocking and some combos. Not a very difficult game either. Block and such is very forgiving in the animation. In that aspect is where I tried to make my point. Making combat more complex and giving smaller window for error is where difficulty is found. Not per se in fast or slow versions of that. But I guess people are hung up on souls gameplay style or something. I never got into that. They are cheese fest games. Combat isn't very difficult either. You just need to have foresight. Meaning bump your head first and then alter your playstyle.

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I think we need to get more information before we can start passing judgement on a game that only has a teaser & some information from the creative director released.

At such an early stage, I'd recommend against formulating any sort of assumptions about Soulframe. 

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9 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

I think we need to get more information before we can start passing judgement on a game that only has a teaser & some information from the creative director released.

At such an early stage, I'd recommend against formulating any sort of assumptions about Soulframe. 

Now letter, don’t be Johnny Rain cloud. Let them have their fun. 

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