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With Each New Content Patch The Amount of Grinding Required to Get the New Weapons Increases.


Hardwood
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There are still Deimos vault weapons I don't have because the mission time + drop rates are so abysmally low you could go your entire life and not see them. And now this new Angels update feels even worse. Burying all of the new content under multiple low drop chance C rotations on long missions is miserable.

Remember when they added Braton Vandal and it took an extreme amount of grinding to get and though it sucked it felt fair because it was a special thing? Now every gun they add to the game feels like trying to farm a Braton Vandal.

Is it really OK for them to replace content with extreme grinding? This is one of the grindiest games ever made and this just feels unfair and unfun compared to the norm. I just wonder if their motivation is more to pressure people to spend money or more to generate 'content' from minimal effort.

Edited by Hardwood
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13 minutes ago, Hardwood said:

There are still Deimos vault weapons I don't have because the mission time + drop rates are so abysmally low you could go your entire life and not see them. And now this new Angels update feels even worse. Burying all of the new content under multiple low drop chance C rotations on long missions is miserable.

Remember when they added Braton Vandal and it took an extreme amount of grinding to get and though it sucked it felt fair because it was a special thing? Now every gun they add to the game feels like trying to farm a Braton Vandal.

Is it really OK for them to replace content with extreme grinding? This is one of the grindiest games ever made and this just feels unfair and unfun compared to the norm. I just wonder if their motivation is more to pressure people to spend money or more to generate 'content' from minimal effort.

The grind is the gameplay. What else are you doing on warframe? Some grinds need to be designed better, but thats the game. With every patch weapon strength increases along with the grind to get said weapons. Thus it feels rewarding when you get the weapons.

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26 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

The grind is the gameplay. What else are you doing on warframe? Some grinds need to be designed better, but thats the game. With every patch weapon strength increases along with the grind to get said weapons. Thus it feels rewarding when you get the weapons.

Don't lie to yourself. It Just because you get a gear after weeks or months it doesn't make it more rewarding.

Challenging content feels more rewarding.

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The Angels update was one of the best in a while, stop spouting nonsense because you got some bad RNG and are too cheap to spend plat to get pieces that you need or don´t feel like grinding for more.

 

The only angels weapon that was really cringe for me to get was Hespar because of the Hespar blade and armageddon being singlehandedly the most boring mission type I have played in ages. Right up there with modern arbitrations where 4 people take ogris and spam the whole map for 1h+.

Eh, braton vandal was also pretty cringe yes but it is what it is.

 

Grind is what you do in MMORPGs, be happy you can farm premium currency, unlike in basically every other MMORPG, to buy the pieces that you´re missing and really want.

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On 2022-07-29 at 7:58 PM, Mag_Gaming said:

The Angels update was one of the best in a while, stop spouting nonsense because you got some bad RNG and are too cheap to spend plat to get pieces that you need or don´t feel like grinding for more.

 

The only angels weapon that was really cringe for me to get was Hespar because of the Hespar blade and armageddon being singlehandedly the most boring mission type I have played in ages. Right up there with modern arbitrations where 4 people take ogris and spam the whole map for 1h+.

Eh, braton vandal was also pretty cringe yes but it is what it is.

 

Grind is what you do in MMORPGs, be happy you can farm premium currency, unlike in basically every other MMORPG, to buy the pieces that you´re missing and really want.

I disliked the Angels because the quickest way to farm standing was to just loot the map on repeat. The weapon and arcane acquisition seem decent enough.

Edit: this is true for like the first 3 tiers after that bounties are better.

Edited by (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE
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While Warframe is a grindy game, it's not the grindiest game, or even close to it... regardless, part of the genre is grinding. It's mostly a 'problem' when the grind is tied to content one doesn't enjoy. Then there's DE deciding that everything needs a similar drop rate without even considering the average time of completion. Longer missions for example, and no I don't mean endurance, do not come with additional rewards. Think of Capture/Rescue vs Mobile Defense or even trash Defense tilesets.

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It might not be the grindiest but it sure feels like it.

Diablo f.ex. had a dynamic gameplay loop, if you didn't like the difficulty the last time you could make it harder the next time farming the same levels so you didn't get your new weapons, spells etc. for no reason and it also increased the drop chances for better items-and if it was boring you could get through it in no time anyway, everything was meant to be repeated a few times. (in the end of the day they were still just bullet sponges with increased damage, not the best mechanics ever but it made the grind meaningful)

In Warframe everything is the same the second time, the third time, the millionth time, why are the drop chances so low again?

There's a lot of content these days i just never found interesting enough to bother with which is why i skipped a good amount of it requirements for new content or not.

You need to ask yourself: Does this grind have any goal? Is this fun? Is there any meaningful side-loot? Maybe this content returns in some better form? Is there anything better i can play instead of grinding this? Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

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I do not see the increased grind for new weapons. Tenet weapons was made easier than Kuva. Zariman was not bad, easier than Deimos for me that is for sure. I farmed 2 copies of hespar and aeolak.  The caliban weapons are easy to farm. Ambassador is one of the easiest MR 6+ weapons in the game to farm. 

Braton Vandal is a really old weapon and yes it is time consuming to get. But no one said you have to get every weapon in the game. And if you are complaining about it being too much work to get ALL weapons in the game then the problem lies with you and not the game.  Being able to easily/quickly complete a whole game is a poor business model.

I would say it is time to move on to a new game once you realize you dislike one of the core concepts of warframe.

Edited by Frendh
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On 2022-07-30 at 1:12 AM, Hardwood said:

I just wonder if their motivation is more to pressure people to spend money or more to generate 'content' from minimal effort.

Those two Reasons are not mutually exclusive... 👀

15 hours ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

I disliked the Angels because the quickest way to farm standing was to just loot the map on repeat

Actually The Quickest Way to Farm Standing was to just do the Highest Level Bounty for the Quills that are Worth 2 500 Standing Each....

If you also Kill an Angel While you're There then  That's an Additional 5000 Standing....

All Together that's 17 500 Standing Per Bounty... 

Ofcourse if the Tier 5 Bounty is Void Armageddon or Void Flow then it Becomes signicantly Less Efficient but even The Tier 4 Bounty is Just As Good....

Scavenging the Entire Map is only good for Getting 10 Voidplume Crests....

Once you have 10 you don't Have to Scavenge Like a Hobo ever Again.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

5 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

While Warframe is a grindy game, it's not the grindiest game, or even close to it...

Is that suppose to make us Feel Better 🤔 ?

5 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Then there's DE deciding that everything needs a similar drop rate without even considering the average time of completion. Longer missions for example, and no I don't mean endurance, do not come with additional rewards. Think of Capture/Rescue vs Mobile Defense or even trash Defense tilesets

Well... Yeah.... I reckon DE doesn't have a UX Department.....

Hence they look at Every mission as if it's an Equal Spreadsheet.... 

And that's how you wind up with Dead Nodes like Defection and Infested Salvage.... 

But Ofcourse that's Intentional....

How also are they going to Incentivize Platinum Purchases... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

1 hour ago, kgabor said:

why are the drop chances so low again?

Because In Game Purchases 🤔 ?

48 minutes ago, Frendh said:

 

I would say it is time to move on to a new game once you realize you dislike one of the core concepts of warframe.

What is the Core Concept Of Warframe Anyway ? 👀.

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2 hours ago, Frendh said:

But no one said you have to get every weapon in the game. And if you are complaining about it being too much work to get ALL weapons in the game then the problem lies with you and not the game.

 

Of course I need all of them. That is the point. That is the system DE created and invested me in. It is ludicrous to claim the problem is with me and not the game when collecting everything is the entire point of the game, as designed. The reason I am upset is because it feels like they are changing the rules. For years I collected every item and they are increasingly making me do more work for the same, or less, reward.

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On 2022-07-30 at 2:58 AM, Mag_Gaming said:

The Angels update was one of the best in a while, stop spouting nonsense because you got some bad RNG and are too cheap to spend plat to get pieces that you need or don´t feel like grinding for more.

 

The only angels weapon that was really cringe for me to get was Hespar because of the Hespar blade and armageddon being singlehandedly the most boring mission type I have played in ages. Right up there with modern arbitrations where 4 people take ogris and spam the whole map for 1h+.

Eh, braton vandal was also pretty cringe yes but it is what it is.

 

Grind is what you do in MMORPGs, be happy you can farm premium currency, unlike in basically every other MMORPG, to buy the pieces that you´re missing and really want.

First, there are stuffs that you cannot trade. Frames are like that (non primes). In case of Angel update we have Hespar & Aeolak where you cannot trade main blueprints. So what you are going to do when you have all parts EXCEPT main blueprint? Buy whole? Grind for days? That's the problem. If all parts were tradeable then I would good (from player's perspective).

Secondly, bad RNG should be reason to say "grind is huge". I've been farming Gyre for weeks without single blueprint (afair). That's not nonsense. That's good example of "bad system". I had similar problems with Hespar (main bp). I've been playing Void storms Veil Exterminate/Survi. It drops 4 more than Pluto's Storms BUT it doesn't matter if a drop is not even close to ~37%. I had 2 sessions WITHOUT SINGLE HOLOKEY. What is it? It's not even bad RNG it's badly designed RNG system.

Thirdly, you forgot about one part of MMORPG. It's "game" part. When you are doing same stuffs MANY times without not even 1% closer to your goal then it stops being game and starts to become work (that you starts to hate). Being able to farm plat is nice. I'm using that. It doesn't mean that game couldn't be better.

On 2022-07-30 at 5:31 PM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean on the bright side Hespar and the Aerosol or whatever it’s called are the least interesting weapons of AoZ.

What's so interesting about Hespar? It's like your proper melee taken from "melee 101" class. It has even worse stats than normal scythes (follow through and same range).

On 2022-07-31 at 4:50 PM, Hardwood said:

Of course I need all of them. That is the point. That is the system DE created and invested me in. It is ludicrous to claim the problem is with me and not the game when collecting everything is the entire point of the game, as designed. The reason I am upset is because it feels like they are changing the rules. For years I collected every item and they are increasingly making me do more work for the same, or less, reward.

So you need every combinations of zaws & kitguns. Good luck with that.

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8 hours ago, quxier said:

First, there are stuffs that you cannot trade. Frames are like that (non primes). In case of Angel update we have Hespar & Aeolak where you cannot trade main blueprints. So what you are going to do when you have all parts EXCEPT main blueprint? Buy whole? Grind for days? That's the problem. If all parts were tradeable then I would good (from player's perspective).

Secondly, bad RNG should be reason to say "grind is huge". I've been farming Gyre for weeks without single blueprint (afair). That's not nonsense. That's good example of "bad system". I had similar problems with Hespar (main bp). I've been playing Void storms Veil Exterminate/Survi. It drops 4 more than Pluto's Storms BUT it doesn't matter if a drop is not even close to ~37%. I had 2 sessions WITHOUT SINGLE HOLOKEY. What is it? It's not even bad RNG it's badly designed RNG system.

Thirdly, you forgot about one part of MMORPG. It's "game" part. When you are doing same stuffs MANY times without not even 1% closer to your goal then it stops being game and starts to become work (that you starts to hate). Being able to farm plat is nice. I'm using that. It doesn't mean that game couldn't be better.

Skill issue.

The normal warframes never were and never will be tradeable (as I assume) that´s how it goes and ain´t nothing wrong with not changing that. I have multiple hespar & aeolak spare bps from just casually playing the game.

Oh you didn´t get a single holokey for 2 runs? Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it. The RNG is supposed to be bad to get you to play the game like in every other MMORPG. If you dislike the grind, play something else.

8 hours ago, quxier said:

. I've been farming Gyre for weeks without single blueprint (afair).

Massive skill issue.

You obviously don´t play Warframe or have absolutely no idea what you´re doing.

Edited by Mag_Gaming
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21 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

Skill issue.

21 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:
8 hours ago, quxier said:

. I've been farming Gyre for weeks without single blueprint (afair).

Massive skill issue.

You obviously don´t play Warframe or have absolutely no idea what you´re doing.

You are right, I've been doing Earth because I heard that's where Gyre drops /sarcasm

I'm not sure where you get that there is some kind of skill issue. Where is skill where game simply won't give you certain drop?

25 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

The normal warframes never were and never will be tradeable (as I assume) that´s how it goes and ain´t nothing wrong with not changing that. I have multiple hespar & aeolak spare bps from just casually playing the game.

Oh, so you have all blueprints so game is fine, RNG system is fine, everything is fine. Every player has different experience. Just because you are having "100% luck" doesn't mean that other players have that as well.

27 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

Oh you didn´t get a single holokey for 2 runs? Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it. The RNG is supposed to be bad to get you to play the game like in every other MMORPG.

Oh, so you play few hours and you don't get even 1% closer to buying a weapon. You need 4 drops (40 holos). Don't forget if you want max element (60%) you need either be lucky or have few melees.

Quote

If you dislike the grind, play something else.

You dislike your country food? Go to next country.

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It's just one ever-expanding laundry list with these hubs-type areas & their unnecessary assortment of new resources. Bores me to tears, even if the Zariman update had genuinely neat ideas & twists on older concepts. The methods simply haven't changed enough to justify interest, and that's why I lose interest quickly. There's only so many times you can work your way through the ranks of these syndicates until the process goes well beyond stale.

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41 minutes ago, quxier said:

You are right, I've been doing Earth because I heard that's where Gyre drops /sarcasm

I'm not sure where you get that there is some kind of skill issue. Where is skill where game simply won't give you certain drop?

Oh, so you have all blueprints so game is fine, RNG system is fine, everything is fine. Every player has different experience. Just because you are having "100% luck" doesn't mean that other players have that as well.

Oh, so you play few hours and you don't get even 1% closer to buying a weapon. You need 4 drops (40 holos). Don't forget if you want max element (60%) you need either be lucky or have few melees.

You dislike your country food? Go to next country.

Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

" 100% luck ".... have u heard of playing the game?

Your statement of not having gotten a single gyre bp in WEEKS of farming sounds like complete and utter bs or like a 0.000001% chance.

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10 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

Your statement of not having gotten a single gyre bp in WEEKS of farming sounds like complete and utter bs or like a 0.000001% chance.

First few days Gyre's drops were bugged, afair.

We have many players so there should be many times where people get very lucky or very unlucky.

Stuffs like this kind of big bud luck happens. Have you seen Holokeys workshop thread (afair)? There were people not getting single Holos. I'm getting this on the Veil (3-4 hours and 1 drop while in the Pluto I would have at least few drops of Holos).

If you play long enough you start people having that kind of drop (bad luck). Those people might be outliers but that's still valid opinion about amount of grind.

11 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

" 100% luck ".... have u heard of playing the game?

I'm playing games but it doesn't mean that I cannot criticize them. I'm not sure why you said that.

26 minutes ago, Mag_Gaming said:

Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

So I just should don't speak about such things? Well, that's not how stuffs works but oh well.

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5 minutes ago, quxier said:

First few days Gyre's drops were bugged, afair.

We have many players so there should be many times where people get very lucky or very unlucky.

Stuffs like this kind of big bud luck happens. Have you seen Holokeys workshop thread (afair)? There were people not getting single Holos. I'm getting this on the Veil (3-4 hours and 1 drop while in the Pluto I would have at least few drops of Holos).

If you play long enough you start people having that kind of drop (bad luck). Those people might be outliers but that's still valid opinion about amount of grind.

I'm playing games but it doesn't mean that I cannot criticize them. I'm not sure why you said that.

So I just should don't speak about such things? Well, that's not how stuffs works but oh well.

You´re blatantly lying about you not getting a single gyre bp for WEEKS of farming or play the game like 1 hour per week and have the audacity to ask for better RNG, such opinions should be instantly ignored.

Holokeys were tough but nothing unmanageable. Judging by your profile I don´t think you´re looking for all of the weapons to be 60% bonus because rarely do I ever even hear anyone want that especially since 60% is overrated and mainly a collection thing especially regarding the tenet melees.

If you´re farming 3-4 hours in the veil for 1 drop that is a massive skill issue or you just choose to be inefficient in order to cry on the forums or have the worst luck ever or are blatantly lying like about the gyre thing.

 

I have everything collected and maxed out regarding affinity except founder items, some farms worse than others, some you can buy the items you don´t want to grind for, very simple and no crying needed.

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1 minute ago, Mag_Gaming said:

You´re blatantly lying about you not getting a single gyre bp for WEEKS of farming or play the game like 1 hour per week and have the audacity to ask for better RNG, such opinions should be instantly ignored.

Holokeys were tough but nothing unmanageable. Judging by your profile I don´t think you´re looking for all of the weapons to be 60% bonus because rarely do I ever even hear anyone want that especially since 60% is overrated and mainly a collection thing especially regarding the tenet melees.

If you´re farming 3-4 hours in the veil for 1 drop that is a massive skill issue or you just choose to be inefficient in order to cry on the forums or have the worst luck ever or are blatantly lying like about the gyre thing.

 

I have everything collected and maxed out regarding affinity except founder items, some farms worse than others, some you can buy the items you don´t want to grind for, very simple and no crying needed.

Why is half your answers to posts: "lol, skill issue."

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Do yourself a favor. Don't chase after the new stuff when the content launch. Time and time again, DE have to lessen the grind after a few weeks just because the drop rate was too low. Just run the new content until you are satisfy. Then wait until the next patch comes along to raise the drop rate of desirable items. Once you start to enjoy the content instead of chasing the rewards, warframe gets better.

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1 hour ago, Mag_Gaming said:

You´re blatantly lying about you not getting a single gyre bp for WEEKS of farming or play the game like 1 hour per week and have the audacity to ask for better RNG, such opinions should be instantly ignored.

Have you any proof I'm lying?

From the wiki we know that I need 50-70 runs to have nearly guaranteed drop. Let's say 55 for each part. I prefer some mission so I don't do all bounties. Let's say I have done 50 mission of each level (which doesn't guarantee drop, at least for parts). During 2 weeks I would have to do ~17 runs per day. Taking 7 minutes per each mission it would take me around 2 hours.

2 hours & 17 runs seems reasonable but take into account that some missions may take longer. For example Flood (especially on higher level) takes much more time than e.g. Exterminate within 5 minute bounty.

3 hours ago, Mag_Gaming said:

Holokeys were tough but nothing unmanageable. Judging by your profile I don´t think you´re looking for all of the weapons to be 60% bonus because rarely do I ever even hear anyone want that especially since 60% is overrated and mainly a collection thing especially regarding the tenet melees.

The problem is not even maxing them but just getting some. I have recently acquired 2nd exec doing Pluto.

Of course I've not been farming a lot of Void storms (compared to Zariman's bounties/missions it's very little) however I still played a lot.

3 hours ago, Mag_Gaming said:

If you´re farming 3-4 hours in the veil for 1 drop that is a massive skill issue or you just choose to be inefficient in order to cry on the forums or have the worst luck ever or are blatantly lying like about the gyre thing.

I'm doing solo so I'm aware of my speed. However I've compared Veil to Pluto with "similar" difficulty. I had much more drops from Pluto than Veil. Sometimes I had even 2x drops from Pluto.

It's 37% drop chance. It shouldn't be that rare. I had even few Sev's parts and probably other ~10% stuffs.

3 hours ago, Mag_Gaming said:

I have everything collected and maxed out regarding affinity except founder items, some farms worse than others, some you can buy the items you don´t want to grind for, very simple and no crying needed.

I have lots of stuffs as well. I'm glad that we can plat most of things (I wish we could buy tenet melees & paracesis). That doesn't change that some Grinds are bad. Or RNG is so unrestricted that people could have vastly different experience.

No crying - just stating the truth.

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