Gorlust Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, LeoniePiggy said: try to read it in darkmode... it's black text on a white background for no reason what so ever The text colour should be automatic now! I never selected it to be black. I can't figure out how to turn on dark mode either, I didn't know there was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, LeoniePiggy said: All the way at the bottom of the page, there's a little dropdown where it says "Theme" where you can select between light and dark :) Thank you, it should hopefully be fixed now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquizitor Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Unfortunately as much, this game was never about skill. Developers does whatever they can so that 3 year old with no arms can play it. They have severly nerfed AoE-spamming weapons such as Tonkor, Telos Boltace, Synoid Simulor and in general, Whips with spin2win mechanics, only to return something far, FAR worse just a few years later. Nowdays, you can see AoE spam weapons such as augmented Ogris, Bramma, Ignis, Nukor and many other weapons like this have highest usage % among this community. And you think DE would nerf something? Sorry to crush your hopes and dreams, but you need to quicky realize that no such thing will ever happen. I had them crushed, as I saw this game progress over the years to something worse and worse. Now its your turn to face the sad, dark reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IdoThea Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Gorlust said: I don't understand what that means sorry. Are you saying that invisibility needs to be there for Warframe's combat to work? my bad I first read it as "invincibility". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, LeoniePiggy said: I feel like.. people seem to more and more want to shoehone warframe into being a challanging a game when it was always meant to be a power fantasy 🤷♀️ I'm not asking for Warframe to be a challenging game. I just feel that the power is focused way too much on gear and it would be better if some of it was based on skill aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pablogamer585 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Question: What level of skill do I require to evade a lvl 9999 eximus bombard rocket that will instakill me and predicts my movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 minor Stat changes won't make the game any more Skill relevant. you'd have to throw out like 2/3 of the game and start over. you can still apply Skill competency to this game, and perform much better than someone that doesn't, it just will rarely determine whether you finish your Mission, just how efficiently/quickly/safely/easily you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntifreezeUnder0 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 I mean It be nice to have New War like game mod. Where we didnt use frame, but actual skills, we learned, yet didnt use on everday gameplay. But then the complaints things being too hard also was a lot. I would more like mission nodes/game modes where enemies spawn naturaly starting at lvl 300 to 500, and go higher . Now highest we have is zariman and they arent even lvl 100+ by default and only factor there are some issues is overguard+ operator to use to kill thraxes, not that enemies are strong(asap overguard is gone, they die to first tic of statuses). Like lvl handling lvl cap enemies would require skillset and proper use of game knowledge and mechanics. Yet what works well on lvl cap,whipes out stuff on low lvls . And gets nerfed later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Dude you turn Mesmer skin into just damage reduction people will stop playing him. I love it. Do it, DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 So weapons become the main meta and the game dies. absolutely horrendous idea, boy am i glad you are not working at DE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quxier Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Invisibility abilities changed to break invisibility on taking damage: Ash’s Smoke Screen Ivara’s Cloak arrow and Prowl Loki’s Invisibility Octavia’s Metronome’s Nocturne Wisp’s passive Wukong’s Cloud Walker Why? Being invisible takes out any a chance to get hit. So, the player still has to look out for hazards to not break invisibility, instead of not paying attention. This allows players to exercise their skills with map and enemy awareness. Random 1 damage appears -> breaks invisibility. 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Harrow’s Covenant Hydroid’s Undertow Inaros’ Devour Loki’s Safeguard Switch Revenant’s Mesmer Skin and Reave Rhino’s Iron Skin Valkyr’s Hysteria Wukong’s Cloud Walker and Defy Being invincible takes out any challenge with managing to not get hit. So, the player still has to minimise damage taken, instead of taking every hit. This allows players to exercise their skills with staying alive. Some of them are used to "escape" and are slow (Inaros). I would guess that Reaving when you can get hit would cause many deaths. Having slow Devour without damage immunity would cause frame to just die... 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Most nuke / AOE damage abilities changed to line of sight: Grendel’s Pulverize This ability is somewhat clunky, requires augment to jump, have insane energy economy (1/2 of Primed flow goes into 0 when you finish reading this sentence), has lower slam damage (for reasons). Then let's just slap another limit. 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Other ability changes I’d like: Overguard is now immune to ability damage Slowly clap So you are saying that only guns & melee can damage Overguarded enemies? What next? You need to void sling them? 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Mesa’s Peacemaker Reduced fire-rate, fire-rate increases over time Reduced energy drain to 10/s Or Removed camera movement Reduced energy drain to 10/s Or Added 10 second cooldown after use Making it slower, clunkier (remove of camera) and adding cooldown will cause it to be just worse not more skillful. 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Zenurik’s Wellspring Changed energy regen to 40% ability efficiency So I still need another energy ability or gear to get ANY energy?! Stupid idea. What about (E)SO? Do I have to use Dispensary on every frame? 9 hours ago, Gorlust said: Note about me: Since I do not consume any Warframe socials (forums, YouTube, Reddit etc.), I might be unfamiliar with the current metas or any builds that are more powerful. I started enjoying the game alot more when I stopped looking at that stuff years ago. I’m posting to the forums right now because I feel this is the best place to get my ideas heard! Clem You need to first why people use such abilities or gear. Why I'm using Mesa's Peacemaker? Because it makes it possible to finish PoE bounty (camp protect). Without her it would be harder. You haven't taken into account any enemy, mission etc. Making abilities clunkier, slower or just worse won't make game more skillful when you have to do mission for hours or days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 vor 27 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Hopper_Orouk: So weapons become the main meta and the game dies. absolutely horrendous idea, boy am i glad you are not working at DE! every time i read anything about "meta" i know that professional help is needed. because "meta" in warframe? I can understand the pvp game with very limited options. but here? and I've only been playing in pubs for almost 9 years! camped here for hours in surv/def and it never mattered on gear.... and these well-known 1-3 aoe weapons make almost all warframes EVER (!!!) playable. so much for the embarrassing nerf screaming... p.s.: these strange "people" should play without mods sp. that would be super skilled gameplay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)badbat111 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Gorlust said: I feel that alot of Warframe’s missions are primarily based on your gear and how they cheese mechanics rather than your skill and how well you play. Call me a mad man, but I feel that nerfs need to be made to create a skill ceiling. Nothing will ever be challenging if you’re able to ignore all damage, avoid all danger and kill enemies you never saw. Most invincibility abilities changed to damage reduction with status immunity: Harrow’s Covenant Hydroid’s Undertow Inaros’ Devour Loki’s Safeguard Switch Revenant’s Mesmer Skin and Reave Rhino’s Iron Skin Valkyr’s Hysteria Wukong’s Cloud Walker and Defy Exceptions: Garuda’s Dread Mirror Gauss’ Kinetic Plating at max battery Limbo’s Rift Nyx’s Absorb Why? Being invincible takes out any challenge with managing to not get hit. So, the player still has to minimise damage taken, instead of taking every hit. This allows players to exercise their skills with staying alive. Invisibility abilities changed to break invisibility on taking damage: Ash’s Smoke Screen Ivara’s Cloak arrow and Prowl Loki’s Invisibility Octavia’s Metronome’s Nocturne Wisp’s passive Wukong’s Cloud Walker Why? Being invisible takes out any a chance to get hit. So, the player still has to look out for hazards to not break invisibility, instead of not paying attention. This allows players to exercise their skills with map and enemy awareness. Most nuke / AOE damage abilities changed to line of sight: Banshee’s Sound Quake Equinox’s Maim Gara’s Mass Vitrify’s explosion Garuda’s Dread Mirror Gauss’ Thermal Sunder Grendel’s Regurgitate and Pulverize Hildryn’s Balefire Ivara’s Concentrated Arrow Khora’s Whipclaw Lavos’ Catalyze Mag’s Crush Mirage’s Explosive Legerdemain (LOS from Sleight Of Hand) Oberon’s Reckoning Protea’s Grenade Fan’s Shrapnel Vortex Rhino’s Rhino Stomp Saryn’s Miasma Vauban’s Photon Strike Volt’s Discharge Vephyr’s Airburst Exceptions: Limbo’s Cataclysm Mag’s Polarize Nezha’s Divine Spears Nova’s Antimatter Drop Why? Killing unspotted enemies takes out any challenge of them potentially fighting back. So, the player still has to position their frame to get the most out of their ability, instead of carelessly using it anywhere. This allows players to exercise their skills with movement and timing. Other ability changes I’d like: Overguard is now immune to ability damage Magnus Elevate Changed effect to 40 health/s for 30 seconds Zenurik’s Wellspring Changed energy regen to 40% ability efficiency Ember’s Inferno Changed comets to now summon over 5 seconds (no recast during the 5 seconds) E.G. Casting Inferno onto 10 enemies will make the 10 comets periodically summon over 5 seconds, instead of all at once Mesa’s Peacemaker Reduced fire-rate, fire-rate increases over time Reduced energy drain to 10/s Or Removed camera movement Reduced energy drain to 10/s Or Added 10 second cooldown after use Saryn’s Spores Removed reduced recast cost Changed elemental damage to viral Removed damage Changed all enemies to spread spores on death Or Removed reduced recast cost Added a 10s duration time to each spore Saryn’s Miasma Increase energy cost to 100 Changed elemental damage to corrosive (if her spores change to viral) Wukong’s Celestial Twin Reduced health, shield and armour stats to half when active Or Add energy drain 10/s Or *cries in Effigy* Note about me: Since I do not consume any Warframe socials (forums, YouTube, Reddit etc.), I might be unfamiliar with the current metas or any builds that are more powerful. I started enjoying the game alot more when I stopped looking at that stuff years ago. I’m posting to the forums right now because I feel this is the best place to get my ideas heard! Clem Valkyr histeria ? You do know if modded right valkyr wont need abilitys high armor reduces damage to hp only ability i would use on valkyr is masters summons to revive pets since i use link armor the pets take ages to kill use a mod that heals them when you do damage and all set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 No thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frendh Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Gorlust said: Most nuke / AOE damage abilities changed to line of sight: Banshee’s Sound Quake Equinox’s Maim Gara’s Mass Vitrify’s explosion Garuda’s Dread Mirror Gauss’ Thermal Sunder Grendel’s Regurgitate and Pulverize Hildryn’s Balefire Ivara’s Concentrated Arrow Khora’s Whipclaw Lavos’ Catalyze Mag’s Crush Mirage’s Explosive Legerdemain (LOS from Sleight Of Hand) Oberon’s Reckoning Protea’s Grenade Fan’s Shrapnel Vortex Rhino’s Rhino Stomp Saryn’s Miasma Vauban’s Photon Strike Volt’s Discharge Vephyr’s Airburst Exceptions: Limbo’s Cataclysm Mag’s Polarize Nezha’s Divine Spears Nova’s Antimatter Drop Why? Killing unspotted enemies takes out any challenge of them potentially fighting back. So, the player still has to position their frame to get the most out of their ability, instead of carelessly using it anywhere. This allows players to exercise their skills with movement and timing. Not sure if it is dishonesty or just unawareness, but only whipclaw and Saryn's 1 do enough damage once you are a ways into the triple digits in levels. If we compare it to the current top 5 AoE weapons, only whipclaw can keep up. But whipclaw does not do damage past walls. Explosive AoE weapons do. That is a really bad balancing suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Gorlust said: Most invincibility abilities changed to damage reduction with status immunity: Harrow’s Covenant Generally I'm skeptical of invulnerabilities too. But Covenant is well constructed. The longer the invuln, the longer the cooldown. It's thematic, and it fills an important role in his kit covering for his periods of having no shields. Harrow also has enough things to manage without already having to balance damage leaking through nerfed Covenant while also trying to get the most out of the Retaliation buff at the same time. I'm surprised you listed Absorb as an exception if you see Covenant as a problem. What's your reasoning for the difference? 10 hours ago, Gorlust said: Invisibility abilities changed to break invisibility on taking damage: Being invisible takes out any a chance to get hit. So, the player still has to look out for hazards to not break invisibility, instead of not paying attention. This allows players to exercise their skills with map and enemy awareness. I'd also like invisibility to be more challenging and interactive. While your solution would work fairly well solo, I think it's too harsh in multiplayer given how much incidental enemy damage already can hit stealthed frames. I'd suggest maybe -health- damage, and probably going below a percentage of modded health rather than a single point. Toxin would still be really difficult to deal with, but somewhat more manageable. I'd also like enemies to have some anti-invisibility tools at their disposal. A few unit types that see through it, units that crack invisibility within a range, environmental hazards that can suppress it in their area. And physical contact with enemies should be dangerous, perhaps resulting in an automatic melee attack or the summoning of anti-invisibility units. 11 hours ago, Gorlust said: Most nuke / AOE damage abilities changed to line of sight: If AoE weapons are changed to need LoS, I think this might be the next step. At the moment though, the lack of LoS requirements on damage abilities is the only thing keeping many of them relevant against weapons. And some are still not really relevant despite that. I think DE should be extremely cautious when it comes to blanket changes to these abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Honestly, the frame abilities are the least of the games current problems imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Venus-Venera said: every time i read anything about "meta" i know that professional help is needed. because "meta" in warframe? I can understand the pvp game with very limited options. but here? and I've only been playing in pubs for almost 9 years! camped here for hours in surv/def and it never mattered on gear.... and these well-known 1-3 aoe weapons make almost all warframes EVER (!!!) playable. so much for the embarrassing nerf screaming... p.s.: these strange "people" should play without mods sp. that would be super skilled gameplay! Meta definitely exists in the game, and it always will exist, and it's determined by the arsenal choices player make in the game, and the game breaking changes DE brings. OP is trying the very unprofessional logic to "Nerf stuff to use more skill" but forgot that weapons (guns and melee) outperform each and every Warframe ability in the game by a large margin. if we nerf abilities then weapon usage and abuse and will rise even more than today...then what? nerf guns next? What will be left of the game is not skill, what will be left is ineffective and unfun methods of combat gameplay...in my opinion, as much as i don't agree with their decisions, it's best to leave buffing, reworking, and nerfing to the Devs because they have a hands on experience to the game's code, they probably know best what to do with their own game. but it's kinda fun to see amateur players post nonsensical solutions that they think will save the game lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 vor 11 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Hopper_Orouk: Meta definitely exists in the game, and it always will exist, and it's determined by the arsenal choices player make in the game, and the game breaking changes DE brings. OP is trying the very unprofessional logic to "Nerf stuff to use more skill" but forgot that weapons (guns and melee) outperform each and every Warframe ability in the game by a large margin. if we nerf abilities then weapon usage and abuse and will rise even more than today...then what? nerf guns next? What will be left of the game is not skill, what will be left is ineffective and unfun methods of combat gameplay...in my opinion, as much as i don't agree with their decisions, it's best to leave buffing, reworking, and nerfing to the Devs because they have a hands on experience to the game's code, they probably know best what to do with their own game. but it's kinda fun to see amateur players post nonsensical solutions that they think will save the game lol we have different opinions. that's fine of course. and yes! Unfortunately, almost all weapons currently have lousy performance. acrid used to be a first class secondary. but if I walk around with it now, I'm 100% dead! I also think that nerfs will have bad results. the problem is that a lot of warframes and weapons make little sense and perform lousy. here i have to fight against a horde and endure a lot of damage. either my warframe can do a lot of damage. or at least take a lot of damage from enemies. but that's not even possible in normal missions! a few days ago my volt with top mods was instant dead in an arbi after less than 20 minutes! and that was just 35 waves against infested. (i died instantly with other player) and that was a top group and i put shields everywhere and had 700+ health.... you are making important points. Unfortunately, people who spread nonsense loudly here hardly play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Frost_Nephilim Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Dont get me wrong, i feel where you are coming from, but as others have told me time and time again, Warframe is not that type of game and probably shouldnt be. There are many games that do just fine with letting the player feel like an overpowered and unstoppable beast, Only difference between them and Warframe is that Warframe lets you play with 40 types of beasts that you can personalize And it works and is fun. The only thing i would do for Warframe is to have them do what they were doing before, which was adding power creep but in a way that makes you more GodLike feeling. Like when you started learning how to have energy all the time for making your abilities more impactful, getting that weapon over 200% crit chance, Grabbing a few riven mods Its fun hunting for more power and looking cooler because of it. I do think that DE should certainly still focus on making enemies get us to use certain mechanics like dodging, crouching, jumping, slam attacks, etc but not focus on it as much as they should focus on adding to that power fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said: But Covenant is well constructed. The longer the invuln, the longer the cooldown That is a good point! 1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said: I'm surprised you listed Absorb as an exception if you see Covenant as a problem. What's your reasoning for the difference? I think Absorb already has too many restrictions compared to Covenant, so it's fine by me. Out of the invincibility abilities, Covenant is mostly the one I'm considering should be an exception. 2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said: I'd suggest maybe -health- damage, and probably going below a percentage of modded health rather than a single point I like that idea. I was also considering that it would be only status effects that break it instead, as the it was mostly aimed at getting hit by traps, fires, auras etc. 2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said: A few unit types that see through it, units that crack invisibility within a range If something like that was added, I don't think it should go along with my suggestion to break invisibility on damage, as it wouldn't allow a player to react before they could get hit. Maybe something like a Scrambus but the aura periodically goes off (even without agro)? 2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said: And physical contact with enemies should be dangerous, perhaps resulting in an automatic melee attack or the summoning of anti-invisibility units. I love that idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 16 hours ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said: Question: What level of skill do I require to evade a lvl 9999 eximus bombard rocket that will instakill me and predicts my movement? You can still go invisible. I don't think that the game should be balanced around this extreme situation. If you need invincibility and invisibility in these scenarios, why does that mean invincibility and invisibility should be across the whole game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 14 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said: So weapons become the main meta and the game dies. You can still take heaps of damage, go invisible and wipe enemies from rooms with abilities. Very big conclusion to jump to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 13 hours ago, quxier said: Random 1 damage appears -> breaks invisibility. Yes you will need to try and avoid that. You could also just cast invisibility again too. 13 hours ago, quxier said: Some of them are used to "escape" You can still use damage reduction to "escape" 13 hours ago, quxier said: I would guess that Reaving when you can get hit would cause many deaths. Having slow Devour without damage immunity would cause frame to just die Then would come the skill, to not use it while in a lot of crossfire. Players could also build strength if they wanted it better. 13 hours ago, quxier said: Then let's just slap another limit There's no reason that the ability can't be buffed afterwards. 13 hours ago, quxier said: So you are saying that only guns & melee can damage Overguarded enemies? Yes, I believe you can use the other equipment that you always have available to you. 13 hours ago, quxier said: Making it slower, clunkier (remove of camera) and adding cooldown will cause it to be just worse not more skillful. Making it worse is what makes it skillful to use. If an ability is godly, then less skill is needed. Adding a cooldown is my least liked change, but it would still require more skill to use as you can't spam it and you have to choose to use it in the best situation. 13 hours ago, quxier said: So I still need another energy ability or gear to get ANY energy?! Stupid idea. What about (E)SO? Do I have to use Dispensary on every frame? Enemies drop energy orbs. 13 hours ago, quxier said: Because it makes it possible to finish PoE bounty (camp protect) It's possible to complete PoE bounties with any frame. 14 hours ago, quxier said: Without her it would be harder That's the problem. People will only pick Mesa for the task, less variety. 14 hours ago, quxier said: when you have to do mission for hours or days That's a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlust Posted August 18, 2022 Author Share Posted August 18, 2022 13 hours ago, Frendh said: Not sure if it is dishonesty or just unawareness, but only whipclaw and Saryn's 1 do enough damage once you are a ways into the triple digits in levels You might be the one who's unaware, my friend. The damage they deal is irrelevant to my suggested change. 13 hours ago, Frendh said: But whipclaw does not do damage past walls Yes it does: https://i.imgur.com/HtDufZU.gifv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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