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Steel Path Relic Farming Confirmed


Mr.NoodleHair

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6 hours ago, (PSN)Cargan2016 said:

was already a thing if al be it a bit complicated to do.  you just run mission once or one round on normal mission.  Then switch to steel path and hit replay mission from mission summary

 

Just for clarity sake. 

You are saying that you can do Steel Path Fissure missions. By doing a Relic Fissure normally? Finishing. Switching to Steel Path, and then hitting Replay Mission? 

Then you will be prompted to select a Relic, and you will go into a Steel Path mission, where enemies Corrupt and drop reactant... Acolytes will appear, and you can continue to unlock Relics and gain Steel Essence as well., in the same mission.. 

With this method?

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14 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

Just for clarity sake. 

You are saying that you can do Steel Path Fissure missions. By doing a Relic Fissure normally? Finishing. Switching to Steel Path, and then hitting Replay Mission? 

Then you will be prompted to select a Relic, and you will go into a Steel Path mission, where enemies Corrupt and drop reactant... Acolytes will appear, and you can continue to unlock Relics and gain Steel Essence as well., in the same mission.. 

With this method?

And to farther clarify: this guy doesn't have Steel path node unlocked.

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1 minute ago, quxier said:

And to farther clarify: this guy doesn't have Steel path node unlocked.

 

Ah thanks. 

Thought that was an odd claim to make. Like I am not a game developer, but I'd figure that this would be one of those things they'd have to implement consciously, and not something you could sneak into by just toggling Steel Path and then hitting replay mission after a Relic mission. 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

 

Ah thanks. 

Thought that was an odd claim to make. Like I am not a game developer, but I'd figure that this would be one of those things they'd have to implement consciously, and not something you could sneak into by just toggling Steel Path and then hitting replay mission after a Relic mission. 

I heard a lot about "Bugframe" so I expect this could work. Game doesn't care already about what kind of mission you are doing. Complete fissure > fissure ends (no fissure on that node) > hit replay. What happens? You go to same node but normal (non fissure) mission.

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20 hours ago, quxier said:

Market( 1- 20, 3 - 35) & Nightwave. Sometimes from alerts or events.

And as for prebuilt forma & SP - you can buy ONLY 3 forma.... PER WEEK.

Just built 1 forma per day if you need so many...

In case of rivens I can have for example 2 - 4 stats that I'm using, hence I don't need to use 2-4 mods. This kind of things I'm looking for in rivens.

In addition stats boosts may be significant.

Most of the game is highly optional. Something may be predatory and optional.

Yes, they have something with riven prices. They set randomness for them. When something depends more on luck then it might be more expensive. Guess what would happen if DE let us pick 3 stats after e.g. 10 rolls and final roll is normal "3.5k kuva for roll". Melee had 27 stats, guns ~25. In other words you have ~3.7% and 4.0% respectively. In today system you have 0,00023741690408357100 chance to get your roll. That would be silly when rivens from both methods cost the same plat.

While I'm focusing on Void fissures aspect, you are focusing on Steel path aspect.

That isnt free though even if we can farm platinum. So you get 3x free forma when that rotation comes around simply by playing the game. Nightwave sure has it, but doesnt come around as often as Steel Path which is on a strict schedule. Which goes for alerts and events aswell. And it is actually 3 each 8 weeks.

If you have that many stats on a weapon they will either be very low or be on an already weak weapon. You dont need those stats. The same practically applies to Umbra mods, where you in essence get the equal of 3(!) more full normal mods by equipping all 3. Neither are needed though, and optional in the end. If the stats boost on your rivens are significant, you use an already weak weapon. We arent exactly starved on weapons that work the same or similar, so again it is optional since you can just use another gun that is equally strong with just normal mods and no RNG involved.

No, predatory and optional cannot really mean the same thing in cases like these, because if they are optional they arent designed in a predatory way. And if it is to be predatory it needs to be tied to an actual gain for the developers of the system, when here everything is decided by the players. DE does not set the prices on rivens. Infact, they've made it several times easier to both obtain rivens and kuva, specific riven categories at that through the thing you feel isnt worth it, namely Steel Path. Where I can target the weapon type I want a riven for in the 8 week rotation of the shop. Then you have Pally in Iron Wake selling 2 rivens per week aswell.

The RNG has nothing to do with prices, the players decide fully what things are worth.

I'm focusing on neither, since it is a new addition to the game that provides the best of both. It will simply be more beneficial to make use of than running either of the other two, since even if you really only farm either "resource" you get the other for free.

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:
21 hours ago, quxier said:

Market( 1- 20, 3 - 35) & Nightwave. Sometimes from alerts or events.

And as for prebuilt forma & SP - you can buy ONLY 3 forma.... PER WEEK.

That isnt free though even if we can farm platinum. So you get 3x free forma when that rotation comes around simply by playing the game. Nightwave sure has it, but doesnt come around as often as Steel Path which is on a strict schedule. Which goes for alerts and events aswell. And it is actually 3 each 8 weeks.

But market forma is almost free. In 8 weeks (2 months) you can either earn enough plat to buy OR build 1 forma per every few days and get more than silly 3 normal formas from steel path shop. I don't like argument about buying stuffs in WF. However if you are going with "sp forma is good" and "market forma is bad" then something is wrong.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, predatory and optional cannot really mean the same thing in cases like these, because if they are optional they arent designed in a predatory way. And if it is to be predatory it needs to be tied to an actual gain for the developers of the system,

Not everything is as simple as "you have <0.000001% chance to get weapon X or buy it from us".

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

when here everything is decided by the players. DE does not set the prices on rivens.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The RNG has nothing to do with prices, the players decide fully what things are worth.

Just because DE hasn't said that Riven X has to be N plat doesn't mean that DE hasn't affected riven prices. Let me give you real life example. Let's say your shop sells bread. It earns, let's say, 30 cents per each bread. There is something wrong with cars so transport service raises fees by 10%. Bread costs 10% more but the shop hasn't changed their fees. The shop still earns 30 cents. THE SAME GOES WITH RIVEN AND DE.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Infact, they've made it several times easier to both obtain rivens and kuva, specific riven categories at that through the thing you feel isnt worth it, namely Steel Path. Where I can target the weapon type I want a riven for in the 8 week rotation of the shop. Then you have Pally in Iron Wake selling 2 rivens per week aswell.

It's still randomness.

I can earn 3x times more kuva but it doesn't matter too much if I may need to roll riven thousands of times.

And I can get more rivens with.... RANDOM WEAPONS. That's changes a lot. /sarcasm

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I'm very hyped for this. I mean, FINALLY! Overall, I'm quite impressed with the direction Rebb and Pablo are taking WF. Considering they were in charge of Angels of Zariman, and that update was fantastic with the new game modes and eximus changes. And now they're adding SP Relics, AoE explosive nerfs, an attempt at Sortie endgame, etc. Overall, a bunch of QoL improvements and trying to pull away from the mind numbing afk farming playstyle. 

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On 2022-08-29 at 6:47 PM, quxier said:

But market forma is almost free. In 8 weeks (2 months) you can either earn enough plat to buy OR build 1 forma per every few days and get more than silly 3 normal formas from steel path shop. I don't like argument about buying stuffs in WF. However if you are going with "sp forma is good" and "market forma is bad" then something is wrong.

Not everything is as simple as "you have <0.000001% chance to get weapon X or buy it from us".

Just because DE hasn't said that Riven X has to be N plat doesn't mean that DE hasn't affected riven prices. Let me give you real life example. Let's say your shop sells bread. It earns, let's say, 30 cents per each bread. There is something wrong with cars so transport service raises fees by 10%. Bread costs 10% more but the shop hasn't changed their fees. The shop still earns 30 cents. THE SAME GOES WITH RIVEN AND DE.

It's still randomness.

I can earn 3x times more kuva but it doesn't matter too much if I may need to roll riven thousands of times.

And I can get more rivens with.... RANDOM WEAPONS. That's changes a lot. /sarcasm

Still you isolate it. Look at SP fissures, now you will suddenly get the plat for the forma and essence for the rotational shop reward, not either or.

You really lost me on the 0.000001% part. I'm really not sure what you are refering to. Weapons are near guaranteed to get instead of picking a weaker one and utilizing a riven, so rivens are highly optional and only really useful to absolutely min-max, which is also optional and not really needed for anything in the game.

DE hasnt really affected the prices, the players have based on what is popular. If anything DE makes it cheaper for newly released weapon rivens if you look at it, since now everything starts with the lowest dispo. If it was predatory all weapons would start at max and slowly degrade to their actual position, since that would push FOMO regarding those rivens and hike up prices and straight plat purchases due to it. That is just simple logic.

RNG isnt predatory though, it is a common game mechanic. Heck, rivens are similar to simple MMO mechanics regarding crafting or re-rolls. It is the only actual "classic" arpg item we have in the game since it comes as a random drop with random stats at that. But that is something I'm used to both from certain mmos and nearly all arpgs I've played over the years. Earning 3 times more kuva still increases the probability of getting the roll you want, so in the end statistically making it faster. Same with the chance for more rivens, 3 guaranteed per week most weeks results in a far far higher probability than getting maybe 1 per day. Not only is it 3 per week, atleast 1 of them is for classes you may want straight out the door.

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15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You really lost me on the 0.000001% part. I'm really not sure what you are refering to. Weapons are near guaranteed to get instead of picking a weaker one and utilizing a riven, so rivens are highly optional and only really useful to absolutely min-max, which is also optional and not really needed for anything in the game.

It was just example. Not everything is as simple as 2 option:

- farming and DE gets nothing from it

- you buy from DE and DE has something from it

There are stuffs in between. To make real example: Tenet melees. They cannot be bought (no plat way). You just have to be lucky to get (I got 2 strikes of bad luck and luck). What DE gets from this? Slots? That would be funny.

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE hasnt really affected the prices, the players have based on what is popular. If anything DE makes it cheaper for newly released weapon rivens if you look at it, since now everything starts with the lowest dispo. If it was predatory all weapons would start at max and slowly degrade to their actual position, since that would push FOMO regarding those rivens and hike up prices and straight plat purchases due to it. That is just simple logic.

Prices of items are affected by many things. Acquisition, how good they are (e.g. good stats) to name few.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

RNG isnt predatory though, it is a common game mechanic.

Is this joke or are you serious?

Just because something is common doesn't mean it's good. RNG is not exception. It can be used to make game better (PCG) or bad (low drop chances).

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Earning 3 times more kuva still increases the probability of getting the roll you want, so in the end statistically making it faster. Same with the chance for more rivens, 3 guaranteed per week most weeks results in a far far higher probability than getting maybe 1 per day. Not only is it 3 per week, atleast 1 of them is for classes you may want straight out the door.

I love how someone comes with statistics into game without knowing too much about it. It increases 3 times? Let me calculate:

- Melee has 27 stats

a) there is 27 * 26 =  702 combinations for 2-stats rivens

b) there is 27 * 26 * 25 = 17 550 for 3-stats rivens

c) there is 27 * 26 * 25 * 24 = 421 200 for 4-stats rivens

- You may earn 12k from kuva survi + 20k from Steel essence shop per hour (someone give me this data).

- Each roll costs 3.5k kuva (let's disregard 1-9 rolls for simplicity).

- 12k means you can roll 3.4 times. 32k kuva means you can roll 9.1 times.

a) 702 / 3.4 = 206 (hours to get all combinations with non-sp method). 702 / 9.1 = 77 (using sp method)

b) 17 550 / 3.4 = 5 161. 17 550 / 9.1 = 1928

c) 421 200 / 3.4 = 123 882. 421 200 / 9.1 = 46 285

That's assuming that we can get only 1 combination per riven (e.g. we cannot get ABC then ABC/CBA).

 

So with 2-stat riven I could say it matters (from ~7 months to ~2.5 months) but in case of 3 or 4 stat riven it's still too much randomness that earning that much more kuva doesn't matter.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not only is it 3 per week, atleast 1 of them is for classes you may want straight out the door.

Yeah, because I want riven for my class instead of specific weapon...

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22 hours ago, quxier said:

It was just example. Not everything is as simple as 2 option:

- farming and DE gets nothing from it

- you buy from DE and DE has something from it

There are stuffs in between. To make real example: Tenet melees. They cannot be bought (no plat way). You just have to be lucky to get (I got 2 strikes of bad luck and luck). What DE gets from this? Slots? That would be funny.

Prices of items are affected by many things. Acquisition, how good they are (e.g. good stats) to name few.

Is this joke or are you serious?

Just because something is common doesn't mean it's good. RNG is not exception. It can be used to make game better (PCG) or bad (low drop chances).

I love how someone comes with statistics into game without knowing too much about it. It increases 3 times? Let me calculate:

- Melee has 27 stats

a) there is 27 * 26 =  702 combinations for 2-stats rivens

b) there is 27 * 26 * 25 = 17 550 for 3-stats rivens

c) there is 27 * 26 * 25 * 24 = 421 200 for 4-stats rivens

- You may earn 12k from kuva survi + 20k from Steel essence shop per hour (someone give me this data).

- Each roll costs 3.5k kuva (let's disregard 1-9 rolls for simplicity).

- 12k means you can roll 3.4 times. 32k kuva means you can roll 9.1 times.

a) 702 / 3.4 = 206 (hours to get all combinations with non-sp method). 702 / 9.1 = 77 (using sp method)

b) 17 550 / 3.4 = 5 161. 17 550 / 9.1 = 1928

c) 421 200 / 3.4 = 123 882. 421 200 / 9.1 = 46 285

That's assuming that we can get only 1 combination per riven (e.g. we cannot get ABC then ABC/CBA).

 

So with 2-stat riven I could say it matters (from ~7 months to ~2.5 months) but in case of 3 or 4 stat riven it's still too much randomness that earning that much more kuva doesn't matter.

Yeah, because I want riven for my class instead of specific weapon...

What does Tenet melee have to do with anything. Those are also optional. We are talking about weak weapons requiring rivens to perform vs easy to get substitutes that perform just as well without rivens.

And if you are to start complaining about RNG in a genre based on RNG it is kinda pointless to have a discussion with you, since obviously you play a game/genre you clearly arent a fan of to begin with. The loot chase is why many of us play these games. Heck, RNG in WF is on the lighter side aswell.

You also need to start reading. No one said it was increased 3 times, just that you can get 3 rivens per week (roughly) or 3x as much forma (you said that) which increases the chance you get what you want greatly. Getting more of something you need obviously increases the chance by a large margin, saying otherwise is just rediculous. It is as worth it on a 2 stat as it is on a 4 stat because it reduces the time it takes before you have what you want. But you are free to skip it if you like, I really dont care.

And in reality, isnt getting a 2 stat just as hard as getting anything else, since all the stats are in the same pool, you arent limited to just the 2-stats when you want a 2-stat, you have all the 3 and 4-stats aswell competing for the roll.

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21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

What does Tenet melee have to do with anything. Those are also optional. We are talking about weak weapons requiring rivens to perform vs easy to get substitutes that perform just as well without rivens.

It's example how things can be partly beneficial for DE, not only based on buying stuffs.

21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if you are to start complaining about RNG in a genre based on RNG it is kinda pointless to have a discussion with you, since obviously you play a game/genre you clearly arent a fan of to begin with. The loot chase is why many of us play these games. Heck, RNG in WF is on the lighter side aswell.

Loot chase? Oh, I know that term. I use to call it addiction. Related terms include:

- Skinner box

- Gambling

To be more serious, if you are going to say any kind of randomness is good everywhere JUST BECAUSE IT'S RANDOM then, yeah, I don't have enough knowledge to talk about addictions nor I like randomness used for such not great purposes. No point in talkign about this part.

21 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You also need to start reading. No one said it was increased 3 times, just that you can get 3 rivens per week (roughly) or 3x as much forma (you said that) which increases the chance you get what you want greatly. Getting more of something you need obviously increases the chance by a large margin, saying otherwise is just rediculous. It is as worth it on a 2 stat as it is on a 4 stat because it reduces the time it takes before you have what you want. But you are free to skip it if you like, I really dont care.

OH, really? Let me quote stuffs so you can follow:

  

On 2022-08-29 at 6:47 PM, quxier said:
On 2022-08-29 at 5:15 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Infact, they've made it several times easier to both obtain rivens and kuva, specific riven categories at that through the thing you feel isnt worth it, namely Steel Path. Where I can target the weapon type I want a riven for in the 8 week rotation of the shop. Then you have Pally in Iron Wake selling 2 rivens per week aswell.

It's still randomness.

I can earn 3x times more kuva but it doesn't matter too much if I may need to roll riven thousands of times.

And I can get more rivens with.... RANDOM WEAPONS. That's changes a lot. /sarcasm

You started with how it's easier to obtain kuva then I said it doesn't matter because it's still small increase (3x).

Then you said:

On 2022-08-31 at 5:54 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Earning 3 times more kuva still increases the probability of getting the roll you want, so in the end statistically making it faster. Same with the chance for more rivens, 3 guaranteed per week most weeks results in a far far higher probability than getting maybe 1 per day. Not only is it 3 per week, atleast 1 of them is for classes you may want straight out the door.

Which is correct but for normal player such increase of probability doesn't matter. Then I followed with real life example:

On 2022-08-31 at 8:43 PM, quxier said:

I love how someone comes with statistics into game without knowing too much about it. It increases 3 times? Let me calculate:

- Melee has 27 stats

a) there is 27 * 26 =  702 combinations for 2-stats rivens

b) there is 27 * 26 * 25 = 17 550 for 3-stats rivens

c) there is 27 * 26 * 25 * 24 = 421 200 for 4-stats rivens

- You may earn 12k from kuva survi + 20k from Steel essence shop per hour (someone give me this data).

(...)

If difference is bigger or smaller then please correct me.

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Am 29.8.2022 um 23:36 schrieb --END--Rikutatis:

I'm very hyped for this. I mean, FINALLY! Overall, I'm quite impressed with the direction Rebb and Pablo are taking WF. Considering they were in charge of Angels of Zariman, and that update was fantastic with the new game modes and eximus changes. And now they're adding SP Relics, AoE explosive nerfs, an attempt at Sortie endgame, etc. Overall, a bunch of QoL improvements and trying to pull away from the mind numbing afk farming playstyle. 

I think you are the best consumer!

66c5f57fd8.gif

only do you realize that it's about 1 se per run? and the mission will be extremely difficult and there is a high risk that the mission will be failed?

patrick-am-lernen.gif

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1 hour ago, quxier said:

It's example how things can be partly beneficial for DE, not only based on buying stuffs.

Loot chase? Oh, I know that term. I use to call it addiction. Related terms include:

- Skinner box

- Gambling

To be more serious, if you are going to say any kind of randomness is good everywhere JUST BECAUSE IT'S RANDOM then, yeah, I don't have enough knowledge to talk about addictions nor I like randomness used for such not great purposes. No point in talkign about this part.

OH, really? Let me quote stuffs so you can follow:

  

You started with how it's easier to obtain kuva then I said it doesn't matter because it's still small increase (3x).

Then you said:

Which is correct but for normal player such increase of probability doesn't matter. Then I followed with real life example:

If difference is bigger or smaller then please correct me.

So Diablo and similar games from the 90's are now skinner boxes? Nevermind they are the very reason Warframe is a game to begin with, a game you freely decided to play. And who said any kind of randomness is good everywhere? I said RNG is the foundation of these types of games since people play them mostly for the loot hunt. If you dont enjoy one of the core features of arpgs, then why do you even play one to begin with? You dont see me in survival games complaining about having to build bases, keep check of water, food, heat/cold and so on. No I just dont play them since they arent a genre for me.

And if you dont think 3x the amount of something is worth it you clearly have no grasp on reality. 3x more kuva also means you practically spend a third of the time farming it. Which should be a great benefit to "normal" players since I assume a "normal" player dont have the same time to spend in-game. Spending one hour suddenly turns into the same as spending 3 hours otherwise. You have the same grasp on reality as the players who claim Steel Essence gain was nerfed with acolytes even though unboosted essence gain is as rewarding as the previously boosted gain and you start getting rewarded from minute 5 and onward instead of after minute 45 or so and onward.

But I guess having to only spend 1 hour instead of 3 on something is a bad deal. Which makes me wonder, where the flark do we live, Bizarro World?

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В 31.08.2022 в 21:43, quxier сказал:

Let me calculate:

 

So with 2-stat riven I could say it matters (from ~7 months to ~2.5 months) but in case of 3 or 4 stat riven it's still too much randomness that earning that much more kuva doesn't matter.

Yeah, because I want riven for my class instead of specific weapon...

Thank you. Finally someone with facts instead of emotions .

 

 

18 минут назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

So Diablo and similar games from the 90's are now skinner boxes?

It was one of the first ones to implement those mechanics . So what do you think about hearthstone's/mtg getting cards mechanics?
Gacha games, including the last diablo immortal release?
How is it any different to the current riven mechanic?

Feel free to deny or agree but the kuva grind is one of the most long-lasting  farms in a farming game called Warfame.
I don't think it's a fair statement - "it's not needed for the general content- it's not worth tweaking the system".

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1 minute ago, BR31 said:

Thank you. Finally someone with facts instead of emotions .

 

 

It was one of the first ones to implement those mechanics . So what do you think about hearthstone's/mtg getting cards mechanics?
Gacha games, including the last diablo immortal release?
How is it any different to the current riven mechanic?

Feel free to deny or agree but the kuva grind is one of the most long-lasting  farms in a farming game called Warfame.
I don't think it's a fair statement - "it's not needed for the general content- it's not worth tweaking the system".

Rivens are free, heartstone/MTG cards arent, never have been, never will be. Rivens are like equipment drops in other rpgs, nothing more, nothing less. The most similar thing to a riven are lego items from Titan Quest, Grim Dawn, PoE, D2/3 and so on, In those (some atleast) game you are also able to go out and farm mats to reroll or alter the stats on the items. They also remind me of crafting in an old game such as Dark Age of Camelot where you spend resources to craft an item with durability (iirc) of 98% or more, if that failed it was a bust.

And please dont assume Immortal is included when Diablo is mentioned. Immortal cant even be remotely compared to WF. Night and day doesnt even describe how far apart the two are.

What is wrong with 1 single long lasting system in the game though? Especially one that is optional to the point rivens are. Of course the system can be made better, but that was never the discussion. It was regarding "predatory", which is a massive claim to throw out there regarding something as optional as rivens. I guess farming Ancients in D3 is predatory aswell?

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

So Diablo and similar games from the 90's are now skinner boxes?

First I haven't said that anything is Skinner box.

Secondly, I haven't played played any Diablo games so I cannot say anything about it.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And who said any kind of randomness is good everywhere? I said RNG is the foundation of these types of games since people play them mostly for the loot hunt.

Well... you said about genres that are "based" on RNG. However rest is the same. I cannot complain about RNG aspect because it's "game foundation".

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

If you dont enjoy one of the core features of arpgs, then why do you even play one to begin with? You dont see me in survival games complaining about having to build bases, keep check of water, food, heat/cold and so on. No I just dont play them since they arent a genre for me.

First, games are not only 1 thing. WF in particular has many different system. Have you heard about RJ? Or K-drive?

Secondly, I like actions & roleplaying aspect. Randomness is just method of doing it.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if you dont think 3x the amount of something is worth it you clearly have no grasp on reality. 3x more kuva also means you practically spend a third of the time farming it. Which should be a great benefit to "normal" players since I assume a "normal" player dont have the same time to spend in-game. Spending one hour suddenly turns into the same as spending 3 hours otherwise. You have the same grasp on reality as the players who claim Steel Essence gain was nerfed with acolytes even though unboosted essence gain is as rewarding as the previously boosted gain and you start getting rewarded from minute 5 and onward instead of after minute 45 or so and onward.

Again, you should start reading yourself (as you said it yourself).

As I explained and you seems to ignore: 1/3 time is still HUGE. For average player it doesn't matter if it has to spend 1 year instead of 3 years. IT'S STILL HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME. If you think spending e.g. maximum 1 928 hours instead of 5 161 hours ON SINGLE ITEM is worth the effort then I guess you are very patient person.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But I guess having to only spend 1 hour instead of 3 on something is a bad deal. Which makes me wonder, where the flark do we live, Bizarro World?

Yes if spending 1 hour or 3 hours results in the same or similar outcome.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Rivens are free

Time isn't free. Unless you are enjoying doing same things over and over without any change you pay with your time.

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On 2022-08-27 at 4:35 AM, nslay said:

New players won't be getting vaulted stuff by chance anymore. I remember all the strange stuff I got from random pub fissures when I was new.

I imagine just a small decrease in this. There will still be tons of long-time players who prefer to crack relics on easy-mode.

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The riven system, as predatory, I see it both ways.

 

On one hand it is 'fake content', the emperor's new clothing, nothing, it's blank empty stats notepad, that require zero work.

Got players wasting 10,000 plat on essentially nothing.

At the same time, rivens are also an oppertunity for the player to get ahead, make plat easily and save real money, if they are smart about it.

Rivens are close to the only continuous end-game there is and a really good way to farm plat.

In so far as high-end weapons have crap rivens and weaker weapons have cheap rivens, you can't argue rivens are forced on the players to beat content, or out of their reach.

Rivens I use for my weapons were all under 100 plat, which I feel any player should be able to go out and earn, relatively easy.

 

That leaves "people who don't know any better" are being taken advantage of. I just don't know how to protect people from themselves?

Everyone has google right? Even if you can't read you can have the information read out to you, ask on your discord, check youtube and so on.

I don't know if maybe you are right, maybe everything should be regulated as such people are protected from themselves.

An account can max buy $50 of cash plat per year and so on. No trade can go above 100 plat or whatever.

 

Don't know, don't know which side I come down on, expect maybe if the developers want more people to play for steel essence, it can't possibly be in the player's interests, lol.

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22 hours ago, quxier said:

First I haven't said that anything is Skinner box.

Secondly, I haven't played played any Diablo games so I cannot say anything about it.

Well... you said about genres that are "based" on RNG. However rest is the same. I cannot complain about RNG aspect because it's "game foundation".

First, games are not only 1 thing. WF in particular has many different system. Have you heard about RJ? Or K-drive?

Secondly, I like actions & roleplaying aspect. Randomness is just method of doing it.

Again, you should start reading yourself (as you said it yourself).

As I explained and you seems to ignore: 1/3 time is still HUGE. For average player it doesn't matter if it has to spend 1 year instead of 3 years. IT'S STILL HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME. If you think spending e.g. maximum 1 928 hours instead of 5 161 hours ON SINGLE ITEM is worth the effort then I guess you are very patient person.

Yes if spending 1 hour or 3 hours results in the same or similar outcome.

Time isn't free. Unless you are enjoying doing same things over and over without any change you pay with your time.

Why do you bring up RJ or K-driving when we talk about loot? What do those two thing have to do with anything for that matter?

Uhm yes a year is alot of time, but 3 years is 3 times more still. And where do you come with your numbers from. I think somewhere in your math you forgot to calculate avarages etc. But I wont bother with that since getting 3 times more of something is always better if you need the item regularly.

Spare time is free, if you dont have time to spare then I wonder what you do fiddling on your hobby instead of doing what you are actually supposed to do.

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2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:
On 2022-09-02 at 8:53 PM, quxier said:

 

Why do you bring up RJ or K-driving when we talk about loot? What do those two thing have to do with anything for that matter?

If you have tried to follow quotes then you should know why I have brought RJ/K-drive.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Spare time is free, if you dont have time to spare then I wonder what you do fiddling on your hobby instead of doing what you are actually supposed to do.

It's not like this. Let's say you can buy your "perfect riven" for 1k plat. You can work for e.g. 5 hours to earn enough money to buy 1k plat. On other hand you can farm kuva during that 5 hours to roll your riven. In first cases you are paying for riven with real money (money > plat > riven). In case of farming kuva you are "paying" with your time.

It's very similar thing (rolling is just more random).

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Uhm yes a year is alot of time, but 3 years is 3 times more still. And where do you come with your numbers from. I think somewhere in your math you forgot to calculate avarages etc. But I wont bother with that since getting 3 times more of something is always better if you need the item regularly.

You can click "arrow" icon on the right side of quote to go to quoted post. Click that and you will get all my calculations/explanations.

 

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