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The Perfect Solution: Rocket Jumping


Bluemillion

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There's the problem of people just shooting AOE weapons at their feet with no consequences. The developers first tried to solve this with self damage, which everyone hated, and then with self-stagger, which everyone hated even more, and was quickly circumvented with primed sure footed anyhow.

Well I've got a fun solution: Rocket Jumping! Explosions from your weapon propel you away from them. At the center, the effect is greater than a bullet jump, with the penalty of EXTREMELY reduced self damage. Solves the problem and adds a fun new movement mechanic!

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8 minutes ago, Bluemillion said:

There's the problem of people just shooting AOE weapons at their feet with no consequences. The developers first tried to solve this with self damage, which everyone hated, and then with self-stagger, which everyone hated even more, and was quickly circumvented with primed sure footed anyhow.

Well I've got a fun solution: Rocket Jumping! Explosions from your weapon propel you away from them. At the center, the effect is greater than a bullet jump, with the penalty of EXTREMELY reduced self damage. Solves the problem and adds a fun new movement mechanic!

Yes!!!!!!

Make it like kdrive ragdoll, if you rocket jump. If you want to do it, you can launch yourself halfway across the Plains. If you dont, enjoy the run back as a penalty.

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Sorry, but this has been tried before.

In fact - this is how this entire AoE cringe started.
With introduction of dreaded Tonkor.

Before it all AoE weapons dealt self-damage that would instantly wipe the user on a bad shot. Tonkor was an attempt to create TF2 demoman's funny grenade launcher or something like that. Instead of wiping the user instantly - it dealt measly fixed 50 damage to the user as well as sending him flying, which was very reminiscent of pipe / sticky jumping in TF2.

And that's how all this mess began. With no self damage it immediately became meta and it was the first to bear the curse of the AoE.
Probably was what inspired self-damage removal as well, since before it explosive weapons were basically non-existant on star-chart because who the hell enjoys one-shotting themselves every 2 minutes.

DE has been cleaning up the mess ever since.

Although... I mean, this can be done, i guess. It just needs lots of effort, testing, proper balancing... But at this point i don't know.
If we make self-damage too weak - we'll be back at 0.
If we make it too strong - no one will do rocket jumping and AoE weapons will die again.
Finding the golden middle here will be exceptionally hard.

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15 hours ago, Bluemillion said:

Solves the problem

How exactly does it solve the problem?  It will just make them faster.   

Do you really think people cant do a quick 180 to shoot behind themselves to fly forwards?  I can even chain these to fly through levels while killing stuff.   

 

Also, a riven with projectile speed penalty will delay explosion enough for player to run ahead of it.  Will not even need to turn around.

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11 минут назад, Bluemillion сказал:

I'm not a game designer, I just had an idea that seemed fun and I figured I'd post it.

By which you ironically run into a common game designer problem - fun things are not always good things, heh.
It's fine. I still think there's a possibility of doing something with this, but i highly doubt DE will implement something like that. We have to solve everything else first.

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2 hours ago, Artekkor said:

Sorry, but this has been tried before.

In fact - this is how this entire AoE cringe started.
With introduction of dreaded Tonkor.

I mean, it's worth noting that Tonkor simply propelled you upwards and had no horizontal component whatsoever, while also dealing basically 0 damage. If explosions knocked you away (i.e. blasting something 3 feet in front of you would launch you backwards) and did more substantial self-damage (e.g. up to 30% of max Shields+HP per trigger pull), then people would think twice before doing it, and it could open up some fun new movement techs as well.

It wouldn't really do much to stop the zoom-and-boom meta (since shooting straight down would just boost you forwards if you're moving fast enough), but that's not really the intention of this change in the first place. DE's incoming ammo changes are meant to solve zoom-and-boom; OP's proposal of radial knockback with mild self-damage would instead solve the issue of foot-shooting-spam being a consistently viable option.

I am all for this.

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4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

A single weapon or weapon class mod that does it would be cool.  Doesn't even need to be an AoE weapon.   But I'd grind hard for a throwable mines augment that did this. :P

I'd kill for a talons mod that removes its damage, increases its AoE size and violently ragdolls anything within its volume in a direction based on the target's position relative to the mine itself, especially if it allows me to ragdoll myself (perhaps let us have team ragdolls in captura too, i can see how people would cry if this "team ragdoll" was enabled in normal gameplay, though)

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Sure footed and company should be a reduction to the EFFECT of CC. Like, you get get with a scorpion hook and you're just staggered for a second instead of being dragged. Or launched a much shorter distance by blasts. Not being able to blast/rocket jump would be a bit of a downside.

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12 minutes ago, Bluemillion said:

Sure footed and company should be a reduction to the EFFECT of CC. Like, you get get with a scorpion hook and you're just staggered for a second instead of being dragged. Or launched a much shorter distance by blasts. Not being able to blast/rocket jump would be a bit of a downside.

PSF works just fine with non-self-stagger I think, especially with the counters we have for things like Scorpion hooks now. When we can just bullet jump or roll out of Scorpion hooks and the like, PSF is more of a mild automation tool than a critical anti-stagger mod.

As far as it's relationships with this "rocket jumping" idea, PSF has a weird thing that it stops knockdown animations, but not velocities. So if you get hooked, you'll still get pulled a bit, but you're not knocked down so you can fight against the pull. Applying that to this rocket jumping means you still fly around a bit, just with no stagger animations (if applicable).

That said, with what we all have for self-stagger and PSF and the like, I wouldn't personally be against a sort of rocket jumping / rocket knock-around mechanic. However, I don't see it as a "fix" to AoE, or a replacement for upcoming changes or self-stagger. Rather, I think would provide just that little bit of visceral feedback that's missing due to PSF. Currently, you blow up a rocket at your feet and you either get blown over or...nothing. Even tethers and the like at least tug you a bit.

So I'd also consider that independent of re-introducing self-damage or any other such mechanics. If we'd reintroduce self-damage, best to consider self-damage by itself, whether or not we get this rocket jumping thing.

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