So... That Nova Nerf...

[CaptainohCaptain]

Dude. Molecular Prime needs a nerf?

 

Two words: Rhino Stomp.

Single damage tick, twice in vicinity only. Can't be recasted till wears off. Good for disable only past lvl 60.

Non-corrupted Nova wipes even grineer on same level with ease because of spam capabilities, extended energy pool, easily killing heavies (since explosions stacks like crazy, damage is not 800 but 1600 due to MPrime doubling it and now grineer heavies got only 1/4 of armor when compared to regular Grineer troopers).

What comes to high-end, screw it. You can plat-purchase it with cost of useless ash included or craft her from parts available from faceroll Raptor boss. You are not snagging her parts on alerts, you are not fighting lvl 100 Grineer to get her.

 

Mprime is like team overheat, radial frost's ice wave, magic free serration/3xfocus mods and chain nuke scotch-taped together.

[magusat999]

I keep hearing this and the "glass cannnon" comment. You realise that Nova has the same health and shield as Vauban, but Nova has MORE armour and a much higher movement speed. I don't know why people keep distorting the facts?

Vauban is less durable than Nova with less armour and much, much slower movement speed.....2 things that help a frame stay alive.

And you forgot to mention that Vauban ALSO has an Ultimate just as powerful as M Prime - actually two of his abilities are extremely powerful - Bastille and Vortex. Vauban can drop a Vortex or two and never have to worry about getting attacked. He can put Bastille up - why does he need a lot of shields when he has the ultimate shield already? Even with M Prime, Nova cannot keep the enemies at bay forever - I play her and there's been plenty of times where she gets knocked down by something even after casting M Prime. those three balls floating around her only help against 3 enemies, and then she needs to cast it again. Vauban's abilities keep him from harm - Nova's only thing is M Prime and Antimatter drop, hardly comparable to what Vauban has to replace his deficiencies (which, BTW can be addressed in both cases with Mods,so this is a moot point anyway).

[magusat999]

Single damage tick, twice in vicinity only. Can't be recasted till wears off. Good for disable only past lvl 60.

Non-corrupted Nova wipes even grineer on same level with ease because of spam capabilities, extended energy pool, easily killing heavies (since explosions stacks like crazy, damage is not 800 but 1600 due to MPrime doubling it and now grineer heavies got only 1/4 of armor when compared to regular Grineer troopers).

What comes to high-end, screw it. You can plat-purchase it with cost of useless ash included or craft her from parts available from faceroll Raptor boss. You are not snagging her parts on alerts, you are not fighting lvl 100 Grineer to get her.

 

Mprime is like team overheat, radial frost's ice wave, magic free serration/3xfocus mods and chain nuke scotch-taped together.

 And that's supposed to be a "bad" thing???

[taiiat]

 And that's supposed to be a "bad" thing???

well, you can't reset the Stun duration with consecutive uses of the power. 

 

i consider that neutral, rather than bad, however.

[KuzkinaMat]

or you're being ignorant and presuming what all players do? if you don't, great, but it's common knowledge atleast some do. 

showing off isn't connected with health game balance anyways. that isn't part of this issue.

 

this is very true. it existing sets the bar higher for the game, which... isn't healthy. 

 

and that's aside from the issues with the Explosions.

 

There are no "all players" on thing i said and you're assuming that my argument earlier are for novas who want to show off, and i said otherwise. rright... My point is Nova is helpful and theres no point of nerfing her to the ground, maybe range nerf but other wise its fine really,the other solution are improvment other warframes so that people might choose other alternative depending on their playstyle then content difficultly come next to balance it out.

 

it might be true, it might not be healthy even with a nerf, but shes already there, then what are you proposing ? remove/replace Mprime? and explosions are there to set off her Mprime.

 

This is like the Iron skin nerf after its nerf discussion way back somewhere. 

Edited November 19, 2013 by KuzkinaMat

[taiiat]

There are no "all players" on thing i said and you're assuming that my argument earlier are for novas who want to show off, and i said otherwise. rright... My point is Nova is helpful and theres no point of nerfing her to the ground, maybe range nerf but other wise its fine really,the other solution are improvment other warframes so that people might choose other alternative depending on their playstyle then content difficultly come next to balance it out.

 

it might be true, it might not be healthy even with a nerf, but shes already there, then what are you proposing ? remove/replace Mprime? and explosions are there to set off her Mprime.

what i'm suggesting, as i've always suggested in every Nova thread, is the community general consensus that was reached about the best change to make to Nova, if any. 

and that change, was to reduce MPrimes' Explosion radius. that alone would for the most part, fix the power, and tilt Nova back to standing up, rather than leaning over.

 

not anything majorly drastic, simply enough to force enemies to need to be grouped(relatively close to each other) up for the Explosions to reach other Primed enemies.

this also adds more collaboration and teamwork, as other frames with great CC powers (such as Vortex), could gather up enemies, and Nova uses MPrime, and the Explosions destroy most of the enemies due to being so close together.

 

effectively the same as nova is now, technically? yes! it is. but it's more teamwork, more combo's. more of what Warframe desperately needs. 

Tenno will applaud that big cluster of Explosions, rather than booing it, if it's an awesome bonus achieved by working together. people knowing they were part of what unfolded, that they had a hand in it happening, fixes almost all of the issues with Nova.

 

that, is what i'm suggesting.

[KuzkinaMat]

 

that, is what i'm suggesting.

 

There you go, you could have posted that on your earlier posts rather than bearly hinting about "explosion range issue", giving a suggestion on what to nerf if you really want her be nerfed rather than those generic "Nova's OP, she needs a nerf" there.

 

and yeah, explosion radius nerf might also work out without making her truely useless.

Edited November 19, 2013 by KuzkinaMat

[CaptainohCaptain]

 And that's supposed to be a "bad" thing???

Yes, Might as well give "Win the game" button.

If you still don't get it, Nova make other frames nearly obsolete. Take a note on Recruitment chat. Which frames are needed? Frost, Vauban (Still, can roll without him), Nova, someone else (usually Rhino).

Why so? Because Nova already got decent part of damage reduction AND crowd control AND nuke capabilities AND damage amplifying. But it's not "Jack of all Trades", more like "King of all trades", interfering with every "other" frames, totally covering and in most cases, overthrowing them. It becomes even worse on the face of 4-man squad limitation. It's not a balance, it's a bullS#&$.

[unit-027]

yup nova is easily take down by mobs if are not careful enough... but she has very powerful ulti i think that is well balance enough

[KuzkinaMat]

Yes, Might as well give "Win the game" button.

If you still don't get it, Nova make other frames nearly obsolete. Take a note on Recruitment chat. Which frames are needed? Frost, Vauban (Still, can roll without him), Nova, someone else (usually Rhino).

Why so? Because Nova already got decent part of damage reduction AND crowd control AND nuke capabilities AND damage amplifying. But it's not "Jack of all Trades", more like "King of all trades", interfering with every "other" frames, totally covering and in most cases, overthrowing them. It becomes even worse on the face of 4-man squad limitation. It's not a balance, it's a bullS#&$.

Yeah! lets remove Nova from the game! For balance D:<

Edited November 19, 2013 by KuzkinaMat

[CaptainohCaptain]

Yeah! lets remove Nova from the game! For balance D:<

No, I'm not telling to remove her. She deserve her place between frames, but not ahead of them.

Keeping her MPrime with all the stuff she got? Nerf everything a bit. 50% extra damage instead of double (Still same bonus as Rhino's Roar, but anyway), 20% slow instead of 50%, a 10-15% nerf of prime radius. it's still have it's use, but far from groundbreaking level.

[magusat999]

No, I'm not telling to remove her. She deserve her place between frames, but not ahead of them.

Keeping her MPrime with all the stuff she got? Nerf everything a bit. 50% extra damage instead of double (Still same bonus as Rhino's Roar, but anyway), 20% slow instead of 50%, a 10-15% nerf of prime radius. it's still have it's use, but far from groundbreaking level.

This would just be a slippery slope to make the next frame useless, and the next frame after that, until it wouldn't matter what frame you have because they are all useless. Nova is balanced because her powers are offset by her lack of personal defense. Her role as offensive support is perfected and she is invaluable in certain defense situations. We don't want such an asset nerfed, like they did to Trinity, making her pointless to have around. The way the game works, throwing tons of mobs at you, there is a logical reason to have Nova - in fact, I believe the very existence of a frame like Nova is the REASON why we have missions with massive crowds of mobs... Without the crowd control they offer, people would be crying for a Nova powered frame...

[fatpig84]

As long they don't nerf AM drop.

 

Anyway if you are using overextended + fleeting efficiency, you will be hard pressed to kill anything with M Prime :D

Edited November 19, 2013 by fatpig84

[CaptainohCaptain]

This would just be a slippery slope to make the next frame useless, and the next frame after that, until it wouldn't matter what frame you have because they are all useless.

 

Nova is balanced because her powers are offset by her lack of personal defense.

 

Her role as offensive support is perfected and she is invaluable in certain defense situations.

 

We don't want such an asset nerfed, like they did to Trinity, making her pointless to have around.

 

The way the game works, throwing tons of mobs at you, there is a logical reason to have Nova 

Don't bring dramatic notes, they make you look disgusting

 

Balanced? Ah, another glass canon bullS#&$. Mprime got slow, Null star gives protection due to guaranteed stagger of opponent on hit, not to mention everything dying instantly on low levels and things like overheat and link being useless due to big damage of mobs on high levels. Not to mention 2nd fastest move speed, having more armor than 6 (six) phrames and having full health pool with extended energy pool.

 

Yes, she got her role, but it's not a support at the moment. 

 

Trinity? Huh, she is a good way to survive through any mobile mission where frost rendered nearly useless since time is not your friend. She just became full-time support, which is not familiar to average OMGEXPLOSIOOOONS warframe player.

 

No. There is a logical reason to have built-in fast response buttons and stick for not sticking around your team.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Icouldjustkissyou

[SanityRobot]

My point is Nova is helpful and theres no point of nerfing her to the ground

 

A gun that does 1000000 damage to everything on the map every second would be "helpful" as well. That doesn't mean that it doesn't destroy gameplay and the integrity of the game.

 

And nobody is advocating "nerfing her into the ground", but well done using hyperbole and fallacy to make your argument sound better.

[NullCurrent]

No, I'm not telling to remove her. She deserve her place between frames, but not ahead of them.

Keeping her MPrime with all the stuff she got? Nerf everything a bit. 50% extra damage instead of double (Still same bonus as Rhino's Roar, but anyway), 20% slow instead of 50%, a 10-15% nerf of prime radius. it's still have it's use, but far from groundbreaking level.

 

You need to keep in mind that Roar is affected by power strength, whereas the Molecular Prime damage bonus is not. So a Rhino will provide more damage to the team when fully modded compared to a Nova. Of course the best is to use both, as they stack.

 

What I am trying to say is that, if you nerf Molecular Prime like that there will be not much of a reason to use it (or to bring a Nova) as the Rhino will do it better in everything but duration while still having way more survivability.

 

and yeah, explosion radius nerf might also work out without making her truely useless.

 

Agreed, because you can always bring an additional frame to group up enemies or herd them into small spaces for the explosions to be usable. Another suggestion I've read is to make the explosions delayed after death, so that instead of an instant explosion when the enemy dies, it will take a few seconds before they detonate.

Edited November 19, 2013 by NullCurrent

[VentiGlondi]

People who enjoy Nova want to keep her too strong, while the others want to nerf her too much.

Molecular Prime needs a nerf of some sorts, but not as much as people think.

[CaptainohCaptain]

You need to keep in mind that Roar is affected by power strength, whereas the Molecular Prime damage bonus is not. So a Rhino will provide more damage to the team when fully modded compared to a Nova. Of course the best is to use both, as they stack.

 

While YOU need to keep in mind that Roar do Only. One. Thing. That still requires a slot and extra energy cost which you can't cut off by fleeting expertise due to being affected by both sides of this mod.

[NullCurrent]

While YOU need to keep in mind that Roar do Only. One. Thing. That still requires a slot and extra energy cost which you can't cut off by fleeting expertise due to being affected by both sides of this mod.

 

True. For Molecular Prime I am only interested in the damage bonus and the slow. The explosions themselves, while nice, are not really that important to me.

[KuzkinaMat]

A gun that does 1000000 damage to everything on the map every second would be "helpful" as well. That doesn't mean that it doesn't destroy gameplay and the integrity of the game.

And nobody is advocating "nerfing her into the ground", but well done using hyperbole and fallacy to make your argument sound better.

Well done correcting me by copying then,  :D

You could -try- suggesting nerf options, not only just bashing Nova supporters really.

posts only containing " OP Nova Nerf Her" would not help her, if you find her OP then provide options how to fix.

being like that doesnt makes your posts better. :D

Edited November 19, 2013 by KuzkinaMat

[SanityRobot]

Well done correcting me by copying then,  :D

You could -try- suggesting nerf options, not only just bashing Nova supporters really.

posts only containing " OP Nova Nerf Her" would not help her, if you find her OP then provide options how to fix.

being like that doesnt makes your posts better. :D

 

Why repeat the same "suggestions" that have been repeated ad nauseam on this forum?

 

It's not difficult to nerf something in which every aspect of it is stronger than it needs to be. Pick one of the numbers, cut it in half.

 

I mean, really, who does "making suggestions" help? People like you who stomp and scream whenever someone mentions Nova? DE isn't going to be reading page 4 of the umpteenth thread about fixing their broken crap, and they aren't going to see a suggestion that hasn't been posted dozens of times. They will either fix their game or appease the lowest common denominators that are blinded by their desire for easy farming.

 

The only thing left for us to do is bicker back and forth and call each other stupid.

Edited November 19, 2013 by SanityRobot

[MDRLOz]

Can we change the term "Nerf Nova" to "Tweak Mol Prime" ?

 

I feel far to many knee jerk people coming in here and posting not to "nerf my nova into the ground". 

 

Regardless of people citing other abilities everyone knows that on low to mid lvl missions Novas will explode a whole room very easily and on high level missions the Nova still provides great utility. 

 

Now I don't want to debate which ability is better. I want DE to look at their stats and see if Novas are always the one killing everything in any missons they are in. Then id ask them what ability to their stats say Nova is using. Then ask what "TWEAKS" could be made to it to slightly reduce this effect.

 

The rest of Novas kit is fine. (portal bugs aside)  

[SanityRobot]

That said, it's obvious they aren't going to nerf anything.

 

Awhile ago they made the decision to never ever do anything to anger anybody, so instead of people acting like they quit because of "YOU NERFED MY THING" they will bleed users due to boredom of horribly imbalanced game, while continuing to make the game more unbalanced. People eventually get bored of just having new shiny things that do the same thing but have higher numbers than the last shiny thing.

Edited November 19, 2013 by SanityRobot

[DaveC]

Changes I would make to Nova, then check to see how it has worked out.

1. Molecular Prime = Limit duration of effect to 20s during which time it cannot be recast unless all enemies affected have been killed or 20s has elapsed.

2. Reduce max energy to the same as Saryn 300, it's just far too high at the moment.

3. All the MP kills and full XP to go to the person who set the chain off the others receive the 1/4 share as normal, at the moment this all goes to the Nova

That last one might keep everyone happy.

P.S. Before anyone says, I don't think my suggestions qualify as nerfing Nova into the ground, just a gentle rebalance.

Edited November 19, 2013 by DaveC

[KuzkinaMat]

Why repeat the same "suggestions" that have been repeated ad nauseam on this forum?

 

It's not difficult to nerf something in which every aspect of it is stronger than it needs to be. Pick one of the numbers, cut it in half.

 

I mean, really, who does "making suggestions" help? People like you who stomp and scream whenever someone mentions Nova? DE isn't going to be reading page 4 of the umpteenth thread about fixing their broken crap, and they aren't going to see a suggestion that hasn't been posted dozens of times. They will either fix their game or appease the lowest common denominators that are blinded by their desire for easy farming.

 

The only thing left for us to do is bicker back and forth and call each other stupid.

This kind of attitude why forums are a mess. 

 

Do DE even willing to listen to bikering posts? No, they recent it and it wont solve anything, at least by "suggesting" they could see these ( if lucky). and atleast DC people like you could send collective ideas directly and with it or direct them to thread, it would help them faster. You could help and be part of a solution or keep on like this and be part of the problem.

 

I doubt that even once they didnt fix problem posted of forums, otherwise feedback forums are useless and should be remove right.

 

3. All the MP kills and full XP to go to the person who set the chain off the others receive the 1/4 share as normal, at the moment this all goes to the Nova

That last one might keep everyone happy.

 

 

I like this one too, most Nova complaints came from not getting exp from mp kills.

Edited November 19, 2013 by KuzkinaMat