So... That Nova Nerf...

[Yg-Dosst]

No it's not, when maxed out with mods its about 465, Saryn is only 300 when maxed out with mod, all Im saying is Novas max should be the same as Saryn. Twist things all you want, facts are facts.

Saryn is also a massive amount tankier then Nova, possessing a large amount of health and armor

And typically, as this game goes, the squishier the character, the larger mana pool they have.

 

Facts are Facts.

 

Nova is literally a Porcelain doll and behaves like on under any kind of direct fire.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[DaveC]

Saryn is also a massive amount tankier then Nova, possessing a large amount of health and armor

And typically, as this game goes, the squishier the character, the larger mana pool they have.

 

Facts are Facts.

 

Nova is literally a Porcelain doll and behaves like on under any kind of direct fire.

Oh like Vauban then, in fact Nova is tankier than Vauban and a lot faster.

[Yg-Dosst]

Oh like Vauban then, in fact Nova is tankier than Vauban and a lot faster.

What are you talking about? They have the exact same Health, Shields and Energy.

Not to mention that by Nature of Vortex and Bastile, Vauban is a "Stationary" Warframe.

 

Oh you mean the 10 armor?

Whoop-de-do, 0.04 more damage reduction.

It's not like Vauban ever gets hit by anything to notice that.

Nova on the other hand has 0 defensive abilities, as she was intended.

 

My point still stands, Squisher characters have more energy.

The only exception is Volt, who does not count as he is a severe outlier in dire need of a rework on all fronts.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[GTG3000]

What are you talking about? They have the exact same Health, Shields and Energy.

Not to mention that by Nature of Vortex and Bastile, Vauban is a "Stationary" Warframe.

 

Oh you mean the 10 armor?

Whoop-de-do, 0.04 more damage reduction.

It's not like Vauban ever gets hit by anything to notice that.

Nova on the other hand has 0 defensive abilities, as she was intended.

 

My point still stands, Squisher characters have more energy.

The only exception is Volt, who does not count as he is a severe outlier in dire need of a rework on all fronts.

+1 on that. Only 'defensive' ability she has is the null star, and even that doesn't help terribly much if there's more than one enemy shooting at you.

[VentiGlondi]

I'd say Molecular Prime is quite defensive considering it affects enemies' attack speed.

[TwiceDead]

I'd say Molecular Prime is quite defensive considering it affects enemies' attack speed.

 Yeah i'd say it's pretty damn defensive when it can cut enemy damage output in half; like butter sliced by a hot knife. 

[taiiat]

There you go, you could have posted that on your earlier posts rather than bearly hinting about "explosion range issue", giving a suggestion on what to nerf if you really want her be nerfed rather than those generic "Nova's OP, she needs a nerf" there.

 

and yeah, explosion radius nerf might also work out without making her truely useless.

i tire of saying the same thing over and over in dozens of threads, everyone agrees, then we restart again. 

if that agreed thing makes a huge difference, why are we still having the same arguments(certainly aren't discussions, that's for sure)?

 

Why so? Because Nova already got decent part of damage reduction AND crowd control AND nuke capabilities AND damage amplifying. But it's not "Jack of all Trades", more like "King of all trades", interfering with every "other" frames

this is true, yes. the one power kind've has everything rolled into one. 

 

As long they don't nerf AM drop.

i don't think Antimatter Drop needs to be, at all. it takes considerable time and effort(and bullets) to use, so i'm fine with it exactly as it is.

 

Nova is balanced because her powers are offset by her lack of personal defense.

 

We don't want such an asset nerfed, like they did to Trinity, making her pointless to have around.

 

The way the game works, throwing tons of mobs at you, there is a logical reason to have Nova

Without the crowd control they offer, people would be crying for a Nova powered frame...

that is a bullsh*t argument, and everyone knows that. people should stop riding that fallacy. it's untrue. once you get up to average or higher level enemies, every frame gets destroyed within a few seconds of enemy fire. so it's not relevant. 

and once again, i can solo Corpus Defense as Nova. and never lose a single Health point. because i don't get shot. 

 

what the hell are you talking about? Trinity was brought into line. Trinity is still one of the best frames in the game for long drawn out missions, where you'll be fighting very dangerous enemies. if you can't successfully use Trinity because she takes the slightest semblance of effort, that's on you.

 

not really. everyone would openly say that the 'difficult' content is dangerous (especially with the current state of the damage and resistance systems, but that's another thread), and Tenno playing such content would need to actually play as a team, and work together to stay alive and defeat the very large groups of enemies. 

 

Tenno were getting to Wave 100 on Defenses long before we had most of the frames, and most of this easymode stuff. Nova wasn't necessary in even the slightest regard. the playerbase infact, had been asking for more 'difficult' content, and gamemodes like Survival, which is now one of the most popular Warframe has. we all asked for it, and we got it. and yes, it has TONS of enemies(when the enemy spawns play nicely). which is exactly what we wanted. 

 

DE isn't going to be reading page 4 of the umpteenth thread about fixing their broken crap, and they aren't going to see a suggestion that hasn't been posted dozens of times.

you might be surprised, actually. Digital Extremes has employees whos' job it is to read all of our crap. 

which... i am greatly appreciable for. that's a hell of a lot of work, and usually very boring work, at that. 

i'm sure they don't catch everything, but you'll see responses in some of the most obscure threads. they're reading the vast majority of what we have to say.

 

I like this one too, most Nova complaints came from not getting exp from mp kills.

you get the XP for killing a Primed enemy. however, if the Explosions kill other enemies, they are counted as Nova kills, yes. but the one you shot, does count as yours. 

so reducing the Explosion radius of MPrime, already alleviates most of this, because then the entire map won't be popping, only if the enemies are combo'd and clustered together. 

 

Yes do that please, so Nova players can mention how weak they feel Nova is and she isn't getting kills, so they can buff her other skills like AM drop !

i wouldn't be surprised, either. 'halp my support frame can't get all of the kills' or other sillyness. 

 

Priming enemies with your 4th and then shooting out an AMD to destroy everything.

wait, nobody does that now? i guess i'm weird :< i take most any excuse to throw cannonballs as i can. it's one of the best powers in the game, in terms of effectiveness, ease / difficulty to use, time investment to use it, Energy cost, etc. Antimatter Drop is one of the best balanced powers in the game. 

 

Wait... What? Where did you get that from my previous post????

you're deliberately ignoring mods to conveniently fit your argument. balancing includes with, without, and with some mods. not only without. 

Edited November 19, 2013 by taiiat

[Kibbols123]

I'd say Molecular Prime is quite defensive considering it affects enemies' attack speed.

 

 

 Yeah i'd say it's pretty damn defensive when it can cut enemy damage output in half; like butter sliced by a hot knife. 

 

 

But that's her only viable defense. Unless she's soloing, then she's not great in high tier levels.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I keep hearing this and the "glass cannnon" comment. You realise that Nova has the same health and shield as Vauban, but Nova has MORE armour and a much higher movement speed. I don't know why people keep distorting the facts?

Because she has no defensive skill and practically no CC. Someone's distorting the facts here, but it isn't me.

Vauban is considerably more durable in practice because he can pop a bastille and instantly take 12 enemies out of the fight for half a minute while he shoots them in the face. Or he can pop a singularity grenade and take every enemy in range out of the fight for a little less time.

I'd say Molecular Prime is quite defensive considering it affects enemies' attack speed.

I wouldn't. Compare it to something like Bastille or Globe.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Kibbols123]

Here you go guys (I still support Nova):

 

Warframes at Level 30

 

                          Health   Shield Capacity   Energy   Armor   Sprint Speed

 

Ash                      450             300                150         50             1.15

Banshee              300             225                225         10             1.1

Ember                  300             300                225         10             1.0

Excalibur              300             300                150         50             1.0

Frost                    300             450                150         150           0.9

Loki                      225             225                225         50             1.25

Mag                      225             450               150          50             1.0

Nekros                  300             270               150          50             1.1

Nova                     300             225               225          50             1.2

Nyx                       300             300                225          10             1.1

Rhino                   300             450                150          150            0.9

Saryn                   450             300                150          125            0.95

Trinity                   300             300                225         10               1.0

Vauban                 300             225                225         40              1.0

Volt                       300             450                150         10               1.0

 

Considering how difficult Raptor can be, Nova being this powerful makes sense.

I remember dying loads of times trying to get the Nova parts.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Kibbols123

[taiiat]

Considering how difficult Raptor can be, Nova being this powerful makes sense.

I remember dying loads of times trying to get the Nova parts.

use Frost.

 

relatively uncool fight has now been defeated.

 

Raptor isn't difficult, he's brutal and rather unfair to most players. 

he could atleast fire in bursts, rather than automatic explosion guns that never need to reload or anything. just constant explosions everywhere.

 

a few explosions, you take some damage, you move to another location. you shoot him in the meantime, and it sort've repeats. 

that would certainly be better than the fight starts, and everything around you is constantly exploding, forever until you die.

 

 

and what was that garbled pile of numbers for? yes, we all know or can look up the specs of each Warframe. 

but why did you post it? i don't know what your point was. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I think what bothers me most about the people who say "nerf Nova" is that they never actually care about what makes the game better, they just want their ~pet frame~ to do better at nuking mobs than the frame who does nothing but nuke mobs. They'll protest otherwise, but that's just a smokescreen.

If it was purely a matter of Nova being OP and making the game unfun, they'd be looking at why she's "OP" and they'd come to the conclusion that the problem isn't Nova, it's the entire fact that we can spam hugely damaging powers constantly.

[Kibbols123]

use Frost.

 

relatively uncool fight has now been defeated.

 

Raptor isn't difficult, he's brutal and rather unfair to most players. 

he could atleast fire in bursts, rather than automatic explosion guns that never need to reload or anything. just constant explosions everywhere.

 

a few explosions, you take some damage, you move to another location. you shoot him in the meantime, and it sort've repeats. 

that would certainly be better than the fight starts, and everything around you is constantly exploding, forever until you die.

 

 

and what was that garbled pile of numbers for? yes, we all know or can look up the specs of each Warframe. 

but why did you post it? i don't know what your point was. 

 

I didn't have frost at the time.

[VentiGlondi]

I wouldn't. Compare it to something like Bastille or Globe.

"Worse than something" and "bad" are two different things

[tripletriple]

If DE nerfs nova I will be convinced they have no idea what they are doing, and anyone who supports nova nerf has either never played nova or has no idea how thin the line is for nova to be garbage or op.

[TwiceDead]

I think what bothers me most about the people who say "nerf Nova" is that they never actually care about what makes the game better, they just want their ~pet frame~ to do better at nuking mobs than the frame who does nothing but nuke mobs. They'll protest otherwise, but that's just a smokescreen.

 

And I think you're just pulling that conclusion out of your &amp;#&#33;... Apologies for the term used(not really), but Nova does make the game 'unfun', on lower levels, you are on rails. There's nothing to shoot unless you run ahead of the Nova, because the Nova will just obliterate everything. On later levels, she is almost mandatory considering her ability to increase damage output by 100% and decrease damage taken by 50%, it makes her invaluable. Combo that with a Rhino, and suddenly you get a 200% damage boost (if the rhino specced focus). The reason is glaringly obvious. 

 

Rhino is a frame I'd look at as well, but fact is he has no ONE ability that does everything for him. He has four very useful abilities, unlike most frames where only one or two are worth the grabs. More frames should follow Rhino's example, give them abilities that are useful each in their own way(granted Rhino is over-the-top in this regard, he is a good example of a frame done well, even when OP). Nova is a all-in-one package, she does everything all the other frames can do. She has Damage, Utility, CC and damage reduction all in one button. She moves quickly and has a high energy pool so she can keep herself protected, the enemies CC'ed, and allies powered up, all while having MP in a state of constant up-keep. The issue here is obviously that molecular prime is TOO STRONK, overshadowing all of her other abilties making people forget they even exist. Sure, anti-matter drop has the highest potential for damage out of all her abilties, but latency issues combined with it's normally 'challenging' utilization, fucks that ability right over to fall on it's face. There is no reason to bring any other abilities than MP and possibly Null Star. 

 

 This has nothing to do with whether or not she makes other frames redundant(she does btw), but rather that she is identified by ONE of her abilities. That is a glaring issue in itself, and something several frames suffer from. It's fine that the frames should have one trade-mark ability, but apparently the argument for leaving MP as is, is that it's her only 'viable' ability and the only reason she is used and keeps herself alive. All the more reason to nerf MP and buff her other abilities to make them more useful. 

 

If it was purely a matter of Nova being OP and making the game unfun, they'd be looking at why she's "OP" and they'd come to the conclusion that the problem isn't Nova, it's the entire fact that we can spam hugely damaging powers constantly.

She makes the game unfun, and the reason is as said earlier glaringly obvious. The fact that most people don't see this is astonishing. 

With that said, Nova is only one of many frames in desperate need of heavy tweaking, but at the moment she is the only one with an all-in-one button. 

 

 

If DE nerfs nova I will be convinced they have no idea what they are doing, and anyone who supports nova nerf has either never played nova or has no idea how thin the line is for nova to be garbage or op.

 

Also translated to:

"If DE nerfs nova I will rage because the game is no longer farmville."

 

Hahah, I am so immature... 

Edited November 19, 2013 by TwiceDead

[SanityRobot]

Did you just suggest we make more frames useless?

 

Because not being the be all end all makes them useless.

 

Cool fallacy bro

[SanityRobot]

If it was purely a matter of Nova being OP and making the game unfun, they'd be looking at why she's "OP" and they'd come to the conclusion that the problem isn't Nova, it's the entire fact that we can spam hugely damaging powers constantly.

 

No, not really, though the corrupted mods brake the S#&amp;&#036; out of the game, continuing DE's trend of power creep.

 

But if you can't see that Nova's "nuking" is leagues ahead of all the other "hugely damaging powers", then you are just blinded by your love of easymode.

[tripletriple]

I think you are confusing really good with gamebreaking. Many people set records on their runs going to wave 150+ and run no nova. Trinity, vauban, frost, nyx is a far more fearsome team than putting a nova anywhere in there. To be overpowered one must break the a certain mechanic in the game. Having a maxed out formaed, potatoed nova in cyath does not prove your point.

 

Another topic you seem to miss is how this affects players of all levels, pros and begginers. Will it effect both this players the same way? No, it won't. The begginers don't have all the best mods to maximize her and she falls short. You seem to forget nova treads a fine line of serving no purpose and being a good frame.

 

Nova solo can be useless because of her low defences, truth is other players are her defence.

 

TL;DR You obviously got mad one day when a nova stole some of your kills in cyath.

[Cwierz]

I can't fathom why people thinking seeing nova and rhino on EVERY mission is healthy for the game. I don't even remember the last time I saw something like a sayrn or nyx. I rarely ever see anything besides trinity and nekros/frost and vauban for survival/defense and rhino/nova. Rhino and nova just make the game to easy, and everyone wants to defend them because *insert ad hominem here*

 

I try to tell people, that the game is more fun if you don't use them and all of the power mods, and rather go for a mobility specced frame, yet nobody believes me.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Cwierz

[TwiceDead]

I can't fathom why people thinking seeing nova and rhino on EVERY mission is health for the game. I don't even remember the last time I saw something like a sayrn or nyx. I rarely ever see anything besides nekros/frost/vauban for survival/defense and rhino/nova. Rhino and nova just make the game to easy, and everyone wants to defend them because *insert ad hominem here*

 

I try to tell people, that the game is more fun if you don't use them and all of the power mods, and rather go for a mobility specced frame, yet nobody believes me.

 

Someone who actually knows how to have fun by varying up the gameplay?! 

Quick! Get this lunatic outfitted in a straitjacket and lock him up in an asylum before he has any influence on his fellow forum dwellers! 

In all seriousness though, I couldn't agree more. 

[tripletriple]

Fun is subjective, I enjoy using nova's M Prime rather than what he mentioned. How are you going to claim your fun is more fun?

[LukeAura]

I try to tell people, that the game is more fun if you don't use them and all of the power mods, and rather go for a mobility specced frame, yet nobody believes me.

Probably because that's largely up to personal preference and mission Scenario. 

Although I do quite enjoy going ridiculously fast and switch teleporting all over the place with Loki, I don't find it to be a significant improvement to moving at Vanguard Rhino speed. 

 

[taiiat]

If DE nerfs nova I will be convinced they have no idea what they are doing, and anyone who supports nova nerf has either never played nova or has no idea how thin the line is for nova to be garbage or op.

i've never had any issues completing missions using Nova. Solo or otherwise.

i couldn't even stand to equip MPrime(i felt slimy just having it equipped, not even using it) until Corrupted mods were added, so that i could make Nova actually useful, rather than doing the job of an entire team by herself. 

 

i just about always take a Nova with me for Survivals, so that way i can go 30 minutes before i even need to start thinking about how i'm playing. and so i can carry whatever other 3 people i may have in the match.

all i need to do is run around and wreck everything with no effort. 

 

Nova has never been garbage.

 

reducing the Explosion radius on MPrime isn't even half of what should happen, but it's a start. it still makes Nova an intrical part of the game, and something pretty much everyone brings with them. sure, it's totally doable to not use Nova for all of the same situations, but it'll take longer. 

 

 

when Nova is brought into line, i'll be glad Digital Extremes was able to remember to make a game that's worth playing, so that Warframe will succeed and exist for a long time to come, rather than appeasing to the wrong people in a playerbase, who will get bored and move on no matter what you do. 

i'll be glad that Warframe has a lifetime that can be estimated longer than 6 months from now, and will have the capability to thrive for a long time to come.

Nova alone won't do that, but it's part of the equation.

Edited November 20, 2013 by taiiat

[Stormandreas]

i complain about Frost too, Frost is completely useless and purposeless in Warframe(but he shouldn't be). but that's another story.

Frost useless... what the hell are you talking about!?

Frosts Snowglobe, keeps your &amp;#&#33; alive, Freeze and avalanche, great for stopping enemies when allies are healing. Ice wave, good damage, great range. Frost is one of the most useful frames in the game!