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Affinity and Forma Impact


Reaper_Reborn

Question

So my main question is- if I have an item that is MR30 and I use forma on it and rank it back to 30 again, does that provide affinity for each Forma+ leveling effort? Im a bit behind it just became something I was completely not aware off, that ever weapon I ranked up to MR30 or Frame that I sold to make room for a prime variation (only 2 but weapons with weapons I have A lot more instances of this) cost me the Affinity I had earned with it. So, now when I replace my Scourge with a scourge Prime- leveling wont do anything but replace the affinity lost. Affinity is tied to the item not the overall account.

So that got me wondering about those times you use forma to improve a weapon or frame even more, and if the penalty for getting rid or replacing something you ranked up is this way, do you at least get more affinity for putting extra effort into the item? I mean its tied to the item so improving the item to a higher degree should be rewarded right? I am guessing its probably not, which raises the question, if you dont gain affinity for the Forma+ leveling efforts after the original leveling effort- why does using one need to require so much effort? Yeah, its not a major amount of time, but it's still time doing a task that has no benefit for effort required. I get that making a super weapon or frame isnt meant to just be - bam throw 4 forma and a aura forma on it and reapply mods. The biggest impact is that the time to bring it back to max level when your trying to make progress in the game, is an impairment. 

Example: Right now I am trying to get one of my frames to the point where it can start doing the higher tier tasks with stronger enemies, and put together new builds that I have acquired all the parts for and need to build in my foundry to get another prime warframe in my arsenal to use for situations where it outshines some others. To do that I need to get nitrain extract, but instead of doing ghoul purge, or farming for the more high tier mods, I am leveling up my warframe again because the Aura slot was a polarity I didnt have a aura for and but I did have the aura for the mod most recommended for the builds so I am leveling it again and Im not getting affinity, or making progress in game farming, doing missions, doing quests, or anything else & it just feels counter-productive in multiple ways. The kicker is that one of the biggest reasons raising my MR is so important at the moment for me, is I am about 3/4 through MR13 and Getting to MR14 will allow the Harrow Prime I just finished to have Scourge Prime for it as well. 

I know this is a bit long but its one of the growing number of things I am seeing that make newer players struggle to be able to keep up with the content they are reaching as they progress. I understand the MMO farming and grind but typically doing that is still progressive in multiple ways, but in these instances just put there to make it feel like there is more content because you need it consumes your time. When you play for 1, 3, or 5+ hours and where you where at the start feels like you didnt achieve any real progress at the end of the day it feels broken, or am I just wrong? Also, Posting this is impacting my lack of progress even more, and thats on me but I am just trying to see if I am understanding everything correctly, and Wondering why there are discussions going back to 2014 (Maybe further) with players discussing how this is a problem that negatively impacts gameplay. Psychologically speaking, gaming is a trigger for nor-epinephrine (the pleasure hormone) that is similar to a gamblers high (Or in GOTCHA games, is gambling) because reaching new goals even small ones triggers your brain to produce this because I with each extra obstacle I hit, I am definitely not hitting those micro-goal triggers, each point of progress (which when you get them are awesome and make me still wanna play) adds another area I need to work on spreading my effort in game thinner and thinner.

Spoiler

. Should I work on getting a better amp for Eidolons or should I work on raising my ranking with the Entrati or finish my star chart but doing that seems risky I cant even solo a Dormant Angel when I have to solo kind of situations

It is bad enough that the Experience system of the game works this way and I just found out after over 100hrs and that I need to ask questions this basic, adding complication unclear game mechanics, and larger road blocks that prevent me from accomplishments in game. The same can be said for squads, its really hard to find a squad because even when you have players who are at similar points and rank, they are more than likely working on a different element. So instead we do missions with ppl & even if your trying to unlock that node or gain materials because its a new point for you, being matched with a random squad is just getting to that extraction point so I am not an inconvenience. 

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10 minutes ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

if I have an item that is MR30 and I use forma on it and rank it back to 30 again, does that provide affinity for each Forma+ leveling effort?

No.

You get mastery points the first time you rank up a weapon. Getting the weapon again or putting Forma on it does not grant more mastery.

Also means you don't lose it if you sell that weapon. So if you don't like it, build it, master it, junk it. You won't lose anything.

EDIT: you can check your in-game profile (hover in top left, click "profile", and go to "equipment") to see what things you have and haven't mastered. If you're close to MR15, there might be some simple weapons you can pick up quick and master - like the Mk-1 equipment.

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Minor addendum: Forma usually will not provide any extra mastery.  There are minor exceptions though.  Any weapon that can be leveled up to 40 after multiple formas will provide extra mastery for those additional levels once reached.  It's a small amount, but it does grant mastery.

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When levelling up stuff, it's a LOT quicker if you can get an affinity boost - hang out in one of the relays and hope someone blesses you, or you can buy boosters (occasionally you can get them as login rewards or from sorties).   Then head to Sanctuary Onslaught or better still, Elite Sanctuary Onslaught if you can.  Or Hydron Sedna (You can get someone to taxi you there if you haven't unlocked it).  You'll earn affinity much quicker that way if you're able to join a full squad, because of the shared affinity.

With an affinity blessing, you should be able to fully level a frame or weapon in about 4-6 rounds of ESO.

Also, affinity for weapons is shared over all equipped weapons, so to speed up levelling one weapon, try having only it equipped.  Or if you're not able to effectively kill enemies with it, equip one good weapon and the one you're levelling, and use the good weapon.

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2 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

The biggest impact is that the time to bring it back to max level when your trying to make progress in the game, is an impairment. 

By intentional design, since the goal of any free-to-play game like this is to take up as much of your time as possible without you noticing.

But it's not hard to re-rank things again, and you gain the benefit of halving the cost of mods, so there is still a reward and improvement there.

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A lot of questions here, and some have been answered already. I'll try to help where I can. 

 

3 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

if I have an item that is MR30 and I use forma on it and rank it back to 30 again, does that provide affinity for each Forma+ leveling effort?

 

Generally no. Most Warframes and weapons max level is 30. I know you go into the flaws/cons, of investment etc but the benefit of Forma and having to level up, is the power increase available. The benefits to DE is the time we use levelling and acquiring the resources (Forma or Currency to buy Forma). There can be some exceptions, as some weapons and items max rank is 40, like Lich/Sister weapons, in which case you need to forma and level to get to 40. Some of these weapons are quite powerful/popular. Checking your profile can help you know which weapons may require extra investment to get max experience from. 

 

3 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

So that got me wondering about those times you use forma to improve a weapon or frame even more, and if the penalty for getting rid or replacing something you ranked up is this way, do you at least get more affinity for putting extra effort into the item? I mean its tied to the item so improving the item to a higher degree should be rewarded right?

 

Your guess is correct, generally no. As far as being rewarded? Sure, but there can be different ideas and values around rewards. Having a more powerful weapon as far as mods that can be equipped, is a significant reward for many. If you were rewarded for levelling the same weapon over and over, then this would discourage people from trying out the different weapons, and they could be at max MR for just levelling a few of the same items over and over. Which isn't really what DE wants, nor designed its game for. Arguments could be made for the pros and cons in general. Many single player games for example, have a much smaller pool of weapons, players often stick by, for the whole journey. Speaking of like 4 or less weapons, but of course a full priced single player game, is different to a FTP game like Warframe. 

Also yes, there is a penalty, if you say invest in certain gear that is outclassed by an almost identical item, thats just better. Like Scourge and Scourge Prime. Thats because Warframe has been around for almost a decade and, is constantly releasing new stuff, and we even have a specific cycle for this too, as far as Priming. We can anticipate and work around this a little bit though, and this is why a bit of knowledge can go a long way. For example, when I started acquiring Kuva weapons, there were some weapons that already existed I had not mastered. Knowing that there is a Kuva Karak or Kuva Quartakk, made me realise, I shouldn't invest or Catalyst or Forma the base version of the weapon. I can master it, and then delete it, as I know I am going to get a superior version, that I can keep, can invest in (if I enjoy it, which I did). 

Two of my favourite guns in the game, are the Phantasma and the Cedo. If someone asked me, if they were worth a Catalyst and multiple forma? A year ago, I would have said yes.... even though they are eventually going to get a Primed version. Now? Well the Cedo Prime is like... 3 or 4 years away... the Phantasma Prime however? Might be coming out in a few months, so I would still recommend to someone to invest in the Cedo, but maybe not the Phantasma. Also depends on the resources they have. For many who have played the game a lot, new weapons and Warframes come out at a pace, its okay for us to invest in them a lot. Its easier, then say for a more casual or newer player. 

 

3 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

Example: Right now I am trying to get one of my frames to the point where it can start doing the higher tier tasks with stronger enemies, and put together new builds that I have acquired all the parts for and need to build in my foundry to get another prime warframe in my arsenal to use for situations where it outshines some others. To do that I need to get nitrain extract, but instead of doing ghoul purge, or farming for the more high tier mods, I am leveling up my warframe again because the Aura slot was a polarity I didnt have a aura for and but I did have the aura for the mod most recommended for the builds so I am leveling it again and Im not getting affinity, or making progress in game farming, doing missions, doing quests, or anything else & it just feels counter-productive in multiple ways.

 

Great point. Generally speaking, this is why many recommend, you level per your interest/investment, and take things slow. Don't treat everything in the game, like a chore that needs to be completed before you have fun. Find ways, having fun, overlaps with completing your goals as well. Short of that, working smarter and not harder. So I agree the game can seem counter intuitive, but the constant levelling required for a specific build, is the cost for having what I assume is a very well thought out min/max build. If thats the build you really really want, then those are the steps. Alternatively, if its a bit boring/frustrating trying to get their, take a break and do something else for a while. Can be ways to make it easier too. Is the Mightwave for this week, do 8 rounds of ESO? Is there a Double XP weekend coming up? Do you have a new weapon that you know you can delete after you master it? Some of those can overlap and also... level up your Warframe very very quickly, meaning a multiple forma build will only take less than an hour, rather than a few days of potential other missions. 

 

3 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

or am I just wrong?

 

You are not wrong, I imagine there are a lot of players that might feel similar, but the important part is, that there is always going to be a large range and difference for how different people/players feel and approach such issues. Lots of players can get burn out, even those that played the game for years and enjoyed it, and many won't even make it to a year. They just won't enjoy or find the game loops or systems loops enjoyable or worth there time. It gets even more complicated when you add strictly free to play players, versus players willing to spend real money. I am not sure I would have stayed with Warframe as a strictly free to play player, a lot of my personal enjoyment comes from Fashion Frame and having fun with weapons, and although the game gives you ways to get Catalysts, and Forma for free... would be way too long for the kind of experimenting with weapons I like to do. Again though, thats just me, people are different with different thresholds, tolerance etc

Addressing some of the other points you made in context around this statement. Could also depend on the types of goals you are making, and knowledge around how to make hit them faster? Like is there a particular reason you want to try harder content? When you do try, what is your difficulty/barrier? Could you be going slower? Could more of your goals overlap, so you can save some time. What are the parts you enjoy about Warframe the most, and are you integrating that well into achieving your other goals, that may be more for the sake of progression than pure enjoyment? For example, I really like playing as Mag and Nidus and grouping enemies, then shooting them with a shotgun. Its a visceral sensation that I enjoy in the moment. Or often just playing as Gauss. So I use them to do my Nightwave challenges, if I can. 

 

4 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

Should I work on getting a better amp for Eidolons or should I work on raising my ranking with the Entrati or finish my star chart but doing that seems risky I cant even solo a Dormant Angel when I have to solo kind of situations

 

Which do you think you would have more fun doing at the time of playing? Otherwise, barring certain variables... I think star chart. Can you do Sorties yet? I think Sorties are pretty good content to aim for (unless you are a solo player only), as they are usually well populated, give decent rewards you generally always want. Its a good place to level gear, and generally helps you hone your skills. Not being able to solo a Dormant Angel is fine for now, just completing the node would be okay. Ranking with Entrati, would be good either as a start or second place, as there are different ways you can level with them. You can get Cedo and Lavos too (IIRC). Both are good. 

A good Amp helps out a lot. Do you know what kind of Amp you are aiming for? If you could narrow that down before hand, that could be beneficial, and help you get it faster. Good Amp isn't just good for Eidolon's but Zariman content too. Which in turn, may actually help you for Eidolons as well (one of the rewards you can get from Zariman content is another Amp Arcane slot), and some of the actual Arcanes you get from them would help as well. Granted, you might still have to do Eidolons to get a good Amp, to make killing Dormant Angels faster, to get Pinions faster to... So again, sort of doing some research around what Amp you may want (plus starting on Focus schools?!?) If you're open to recommendations, let us know!

 

4 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

It is bad enough that the Experience system of the game works this way and I just found out after over 100hrs and that I need to ask questions this basic, adding complication unclear game mechanics, and larger road blocks that prevent me from accomplishments in game. The same can be said for squads, its really hard to find a squad because even when you have players who are at similar points and rank, they are more than likely working on a different element. So instead we do missions with ppl & even if your trying to unlock that node or gain materials because its a new point for you, being matched with a random squad is just getting to that extraction point so I am not an inconvenience. 

 

Warframe can have a lot going on, and that can be frustrating. If it helps? I sometimes met people with thousands of hours experience, who can be surprised with new information, myself included. 

Getting some friends/a clan can really help too, as far as finding players with similar goals, because that can indeed may a big difference, even just as far as fun with conversation and communication, and pointing out silly things with the game. Including venting. 

Try not feel like an inconvenience though either too. If there are players that act that way in game, try to ignore them. Many Warframe players enjoy and like helping others on their journey. So giving support or accomodating you, is a part of why they play. Not every player will be like that, but its worth remembering many are. 

Hope any of this helps. New update soon, and we'll be getting a new Warframe just for logging in! Exciting. Good luck! 

 

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12 hours ago, Reaper_Reborn said:

Im a bit behind it just became something I was completely not aware off, that ever weapon I ranked up to MR30 or Frame that I sold to make room for a prime variation (only 2 but weapons with weapons I have A lot more instances of this) cost me the Affinity I had earned with it. So, now when I replace my Scourge with a scourge Prime- leveling wont do anything but replace the affinity lost. Affinity is tied to the item not the overall account.

Wait, is this accurate? Selling my Rank 30 Lato costs me the affinity I earned from it?

What about sacrificing weapons as requisite parts for other weapons? Does using the Cernos to forge the Proboscis Cernos delete the affinity I gained with the original?

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thanks everyone and When i posted that I knew that having that much to think about and then post was going to have some pretty indepth info that would come back for me to process, some still processing, but that was if I got anyone to open it and not just go nope! So thanks I do appreciate it. 

18 hours ago, Phatose said:

Minor addendum: Forma usually will not provide any extra mastery.  There are minor exceptions though.  Any weapon that can be leveled up to 40 after multiple formas will provide extra mastery for those additional levels once reached.  It's a small amount, but it does grant mastery.

I was wondering why a certain heavy sword i have says lvl 30 but no (MAX) following, ive been a bit confused but I guess there is more to it I didnt know about. I was just bummed I didnt have it before something else was done, and basically used the rental version.

 

17 hours ago, Pakaku said:

By intentional design, since the goal of any free-to-play game like this is to take up as much of your time as possible without you noticing.

But it's not hard to re-rank things again, and you gain the benefit of halving the cost of mods, so there is still a reward and improvement there.

Yes and know take most games and once your past a certain point then you can obtain a prestige or some other random term that is found in a thesaurus that gets added on to your accomplishments. But there isnt very many instances of a free 2 play or non where you increase an item to a new Tier and your not given a value added take COD Warzone or FFVII Remake First Soldier as you ascend with it you use a resource to bring it to a new higher status and you get an unlocked aspect that if you want to use you can or not it may very if you think its worth using but your not forced to relevel that item and even though end result will allow a great Drain cost reduction you still have to remove a large amount of your components and then go level it back up to do again. Gameplay is one thing, grinding to get a rare material or doing raids but thats to access higher quality items, not to make you rework for something you already did the work to obtain or pay for. The process of getting a forma from the mission where you used a void relic you choose Forma and it costs you higher value items you may be able to trade or get ducats from, the effort to get a benefit and cost of obtaining elements of the transaction have been completed, what is the benefit of doing another ESO run or something else. 

I do have affinity boosters I got the 90 day one, and yeah its not a significant amount of time but when I am trying to get to a point in the game or enjoy gameplay Im put back in the hampster wheel to rinse and repeat, and if you also dont get any affinity for doing the task its a even bigger loss of valuable time. I didnt know reducing my equipped weapons or whatever I am trying to level and not having multiple leveling at once had an impact, I usually am only leveling one thing the others are something maxed that I have equipped so I can gain more focus, but I dont know if already maxed items takes away from the one that is leveled? 

There is a lot of great info I could only do quick reads on and will likely have a lot more followup questions, but I wanted to say I appreciated all the recommendations and information from everyone breaking things down more and even if I don't agree 100% even someone playing devils advocate I see more rationality and logic points of view that at least show a perspective from someone who has been spending the last 3 days just trying to get from MR13 to 14 so I can get scourge prime main bp for the harrow prime I spent a ton of time working to get, and Still need to work on getting all knell prime components. But I appreciated that everyone gave me more to think on, and trudged through the adhd cluster truck that my brain types out.

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8 hours ago, (NSW)BenHiraga said:

Wait, is this accurate? Selling my Rank 30 Lato costs me the affinity I earned from it?

What about sacrificing weapons as requisite parts for other weapons? Does using the Cernos to forge the Proboscis Cernos delete the affinity I gained with the original?

Nope times 3. Mastery you get from ranking up weapons the first time is yours forever.

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