Veilbreaker: Update 32

[Janeethan]

😡Thank you for messing with Ammo updates. I hate this new updates

[HunterDigi]

On 2022-09-07 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Gaze (Secondary): From 400 to 200 

I was already running out of ammo using that on steel path, using headshot build, before this update... xD

Edited September 8, 2022 by HunterDigi

[lowgrav]

23 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We are aware of the way Glaive/Thrown Melees behave and are reviewing closely to see if their dominance will require a revision pass as well. But as always, we’ll be watching for your feedback.

can we have a way of making enimys knocked down by kestrel thrown attack (weapon ability) take longer to get up as its a fun little ability but in missions where your getting swarmed by 20 enimys at a time the weapon ability is wasted as the enimy has fully recovered as soon as you get the chance to throw it again and a weapon that does low dmg but can only stun lock 1 enimy at a time (provided they are not imune to knockdowns) dont seem to have a use

can we have the dmg ticks the orvius does more affected by how we mod the weapon the time it does the ticks and the total duration is fine but the total dmg and recall explosion does less damage than just doing a charged throw (and the light throw ability only targets 1 enimy)

sure i get it there are better glaives to use but these have unique abilitys that seem to fall off in usefulness quite fast which is sad and i think the usefulness falloff is too fast considering the possibilitys a player that didnt have the dps to help team in mobile defence so just guarded a door with the kestrel and knocked back enimys as they tried to get through (sure it would mean individualy targeting enimys and throwing the glave to hit them could be fun and engaging but it would still not be used as more kills is better)

i just want the other galives that have their unique abilitys to be brought up to glaive prime standard or at least have a primed version that is at that standard not better quick attack stats or heavy attack stats as thats the glaive prime thing as as far as i can tell has no unique ability so it deservs that for having nothing else but why must the unique ability the others have be so weak that they invalidate the point of them even having that ability a glave heavy attack explosion can do 157k dmge but a pathocyst magot only does 50 damage per magot to the same enimy.....why is this a weapon ability the magots dont even stall the enimy for that long

(we are excluding the wolf sledge as a glave with hammer mods is fine and the halikar disarm ability is also ok i guess if a bit unreliable especaly seeing as on the zaraman some enimys are imune to disarm effect and xoris also dont need any tweaking as its ability the infinate combo on a glave is fine)

i just want more options with my glaives they have the potential but they seem to want to punish me for wanting to use their unique ability 

[Thordd]

I am sad about the ammo nerf for Lenz.  No one uses Lenz anyway....

[Thordd]

"We are aware of the way Glaive/Thrown Melees behave and are reviewing closely to see if their dominance will require a revision pass as well."   counterpoint: but it is only glaive prime that is being used much by Tenno, and that weapon was already stealth nerfed several months ago.   The other glaives are rarely used: nerfing all of the glaives is excessive.

[-Aimless-]

And problems with Ash Bladestorm still ignored, amazing job, DE.

Year of quality content.

[-QueenUnicorn-]

This update needed to be held back a week or two

[UrubuHerbivoro]

On 2022-09-07 at 12:28 PM, --RV--Bladek said:

now bubonico is unusable. ALSO reload speed mods doesnt work on it!

 

Nice, melee meta back haha. Very good job at nerfing all weapons not only AOE

Did you try Shedu? 

[JCMS130988]

So far I love the improvement to Excalibur's slash dash, but I'd suggest that, if you want to buff Excalibur, Radial Blind is waht you should have changed. I think radial blind should be an area of effect ability instead of being blocked by physical objects, that would make a good stealth ability and great for CC. From what I've read it used to work like this, I don't understand why they changed it

[Tyfyter2002]

A lot of these changes are great, but why did a non-meta weapon like Shedu get a bigger nerf than all the meta weapons combined (which is to say, a ~33% average fire rate nerf by my calculations, a bigger nerf than tenet cycron's ~16% reduction), and why did Basmu (which also wasn't meta as far as I can tell) get its ammo regeneration effectively removed altogether?

Edited September 8, 2022 by Tyfyter2002

[Nexalarn]

That is, since I don’t play the way the developers want me to, I can throw most of my builds and weapons in the trash. Charming.

В 07.09.2022 в 18:00, [DE]Megan сказал:

A majority of sessions are played co-op, so ideally everybody gets a chance to play. We’ve reached a point where players are asking us to change these weapons, because they leave so little for others to do. 

How about Titania's with Thermal Sunder? I mostly see that being a case, than players using aoe weapons, when we'll see them nerfed?

[LittleSuccubus]

20 hours ago, Nonja said:

"Mesa bad"

Just for you bby <3

My Mesa doesn't even have subsumes, I only started Deimos yesterday lmao

Who doesn't know how to mod, again? 💀

 

But that's actually really bad though.. A No-Riven Sporelacer with 0 buffs on any frame kills level 190 Corrupted Bombards way faster than that.

And if I switch to Saryn or anything that provides a decent damage boost, I need 2 shots for a group..

Edited September 8, 2022 by LittleSuccubus

[AlfonsoGP]

1. Ok now that I'm i really have to say that DE  you #*!%ing stupid.......... You said your improving and making homogenous experience for Wukiong but you are just nerfing it and something soo stupid have no forgiveness

2.Why the hell you have to make Archon missions MORE DIFICULT THAN A STRIKE WHEN YOU GIVE THE SAME #*!%ING REWARDS? 

3.You are using excuse to take out the kuva brahma its the first noted in the list 👀

But to limiting even more weapons that have problems to AMMO TO KILL, TO  PASS THE MISSION specially when you dont give any better alternative to that YOU KNOW THERE SECONDARYS THAT ARE BETTER THAN THE PRIMARY WEAPON 

Your nerfing excuse to use another alternative are as stupid as the ones propose Destiny 2 and their weapons 

 

4.AND WHAT OPTIMIZATION all you do is spit it "optimizations" patch after patch just to see that using msi afterburner every day and seeing not even a fricking FPS fro to claim that the performance of the game is better 😒

[Twisted_Wisdom]

15 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

also, you can always play solo if you dont like other people killing stuff faster than you (because this will continue to happen, with or without bramma players)

Good reason to play solo is not liking what other players are doing.
'But i want to play with other players!'
Well, then, pre-make your group instead of pugging it.
'But thats annoying?!'
Get used to it.

And now with this new nerf-fest, everyone suffers, solo and group players.
Trying to kill steel path enemies with ammo nerf, recharge nerf is ludicrous.

I did my first archon sortie and the experience was so bad i never want to do it again.
I soloed the mobile defence (10min), grouped up for the archon defence (40min), and soloed the archon hunt (90min because issues in game).
I've made it to LR2, and i have reasonably good builds (as in i am not a beginner, having put 5,800+hrs into the game). I prefer to play solo (because reasons).
The archon sortie was so very disappointing. It wasn't fun.
It was a never ending pull the trigger until no ammo, then wait and wait and wait for ammo to recharge, then rinse and repeat, and repeat.... ad nauseam.
I was instead meant to use a weapon where I was meant to run out of ammo? How is that meant to improve my experience and fun of playing Warframe?
Its meant to be a challenge? Says who?! And define 'challenge'.
I want to enjoy playing Warframe. I want to be space ninja and slaughter everything i see. That's why i use mods, and level my gear.

Its the never ending nerf after nerf after nerf, and i don't use the boom & zoom, i don't stick to the meta,  but i am being punished for it regardless.
I was looking forward to the new content, but its just a nerf-fest. and by the time i had finished the Archon Hunt i was left with feeling I don't want to play Warframe any more, instead of looking forward to how much fun its going to be.

I don't understand why we are being punished for using what the game provides, then being told because everyone likes 'whatever' too much, we can't do that any more.
There is no compensation for taking the fun out of the game.

I wonder if the Duviri Paradox will leave Warframe dead in the water.
Warframe was my favorite game but this nerf-fest has killed it.

[Hardwood]

It took World of Warcraft years to realize Titanforging was a terrible system, how long until we realize tauforging is just as terrible?

[dirkweezil]

some notes since the update:

I can hear the tanks and fish in them, from the living quarters everywhere on the orbiter.  music in some areas drown it out for the most part, but it's still there.

The syndicate standing/selection screen you get to from the console to the left of navigation hangs the game 50% of the time.  can't escape, can't interact, requires a restart.

both still an issue after 32.0.1

[illumikirua]

To be honest im just sad :( Im a relatively new player and just got my Kuva Bramma 2 weeks ago while investing a lot of resources into it.. and now its literally unplayable in day-to-day use and the resources we got as a compensation dont even come neaaaar to what i invested in it.

I think the Ammo nerf is total ****! Even got ammo problems on other weapons now -.- Feeling like a god is what makes warframe such a great game to me i can just play while completely decimating my enemies and a part of that died with the new update. Just buff Melee and single target weapons instead of nerfing aoe to the ground!

Edited September 8, 2022 by illumikirua
typo

[rainy]

On 2022-09-07 at 11:00 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Felarx Incarnon Form changes: 

• These changes were made thanks to Community Feedback that the Felarx was struggling compared to other Incarnon weapons in its class. 
• Now uses a larger projectile. 
• Increased damage while in Incarnon Form from 600 to 700.   

 

Felarx damage was not increased it seems, still only 600.

[CephalonPotassium]

So apparently spazz is some kind of slur now? It legit just means crazy.

[Degaz3000]

24 minutes ago, CephalonPotassium said:

So apparently spazz is some kind of slur now? It legit just means crazy.

Or it's a brand of medicine.

[XennethKeisere]

15 minutes ago, Degaz3000 said:

Or it's a brand of medicine.

So is Soma. We gonna rename that, too?

People need to get over their snowflakeness...

[Paroxysm]

Has anyone else had the 

Spoiler

Operator Energy not affecting Operator abilities

or equipped ephemera colour glitch?

Changing my base energy colours

Spoiler

(both for drifter and base operator)

does not fix this.

In addition, the Velorum Prime sigil was also affected by this; before its colour was affected by

Spoiler

operator energy colour

it now it defaults to blue.

I was hoping it would be hotfixed shortly after launch, but it's still not been addressed.

Spoilers for the New War, if you haven't done it already don't click.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Paroxysm
Further clarification + images.

[1990Dragon]

Thanks for update, but maybe need some adjustments with ammo? We have not enough ammo drop from mobs now.

[Tyfyter2002]

3 hours ago, Hardwood said:

It took World of Warcraft years to realize Titanforging was a terrible system, how long until we realize tauforging is just as terrible?

As far as I can tell this is an entirely different system in an entirely different game, with the only similarities being the names and that both are upgrade systems, so by my estimate it'll take about NaN years.

[rainy]

14 minutes ago, XennethKeisere said:

Day 2 of telling DE they need to rework the Speargun rework and give Javlok it's throw damage back.

Yes^^. Why does a weapon so cool need to be condemned to an MR7 dumpster, which it doesn't even live up to!

Javlok is MR7. Deals 660 damage with 20% CC at 2.0x CD in a 6m radius. It can be thrown once every 3 seconds for an effective fire rate of ~0.33. Its maximum ammo pool divided by its magazine of 6 gives it 150 / 6 = 25 shots. This is reduced further by magazine mods often to only 16 shots. Magazine, which not only has substantially smaller mod values than multishot, but their actual effect is half as powerful as the mod would suggest:

• Javlok gets +20% multiplying damage on its throw explosion for every shot in the magazine. That's a starting +120% bonus for effective 220% total damage. +55% will affect the 120% portion, rounded to the nearest 20% for 180%, for 280% damage total. 280% / 220% = 1.27x damage increase instead of 1.5x, vs the potential 3.30x damage increase from having functional multishot.

Tonkor is MR5, deals 650 damage with 25% CC at 2.5x in a 7m radius. It can be fired every 2 seconds, or every 1.7 seconds if you're fast, for an effective fire rate of 0.59. Its maximum ammo pool is 30.

• Almost twice the fire rate, bigger radius, much higher critical damage, lower MR, and benefits from multishot, a 3.3x moddable multiplier.

Penta is MR6, deals 350 damage in a 4 meter radius with 10% CC at 2.0x, not usable crit. It can be fired every second 5 times before reloading for 2.5 seconds. Its max ammo pool is 20.

• One of the worst weapons in the game.

 

I gave each weapon the following build and did their math:

Javlok: Primary Merciless - Serration - Heavy Caliber - Critical Delay - Vital Sense - Amalgam Javlok - Primed Fast Hands - Hammer Shot - Internal Bleeding.

Tonkor: Primary Merciless - Serration - Heavy Caliber - Critical Delay - Vital Sense - Galvanized Chamber - Hammer Shot - Hunter Munitions - literally an empty slot because I forgot to calculate precision strike.

• I also assume players don't know about reloading, giving it a penalty but also more natural representation.

Penta: Primary Merciless - Serration - Heavy Caliber - Critical Delay - Vital Sense - Galvanized Chamber - Vile Acceleration - Hammer Shot - Hunter Munitions.

• As opposed to Napalm Grenades. Carmine Penta is the same MR, but harder to acquire. It has almost triple the natural fire rate. This is also a crit build on a weapon with unusable crit, just to make a slash comparison.

Javlok Throw: Starts at 219 sdps, mods to 10328 statusless, and 15182 sustained slash proc dps that ignores armor.

• Despite having the ridiculous privilege of guaranteeing impact procs for IB, it struggles.

Tonkor: Starts at 323 sdps, mods to 54759 statusless, and 32930 sustained slash proc dps that ignores armor.

• If I calculated precision strike and assuming automatic reloads, those bold numbers become 93064 and 55965, 9x and 3.7x higher than Javlok's numbers respectively. Even if Javlok had BOTH functional multishot and double its base damage, it would surpass with 79273 sustained slash proc dps, which is still inferior to an MR5 weapon if players know how to reload Tonkor, which would have up to 92313 sustained slash proc damage. With only Primed Fast Hands and manual reloads, it's only 60993, appropriately below an MR7 speargun, and within reach with rivens to compete with higher tiers, as the system intended.

Penta: Starts at 233 sdps, mods to 21899 statusless, and 9738 sustained slash proc dps that ignores armor.

• Again, not even good with crit. Slash-less damage is twice as high, and combined the raw dps is still higher too.

Note: Javlok's Fire Rate is based on in-game measuring. The animation before reloading is slightly longer than 1 second, but it is ultimately an estimation.

 

Warframe has impressive reserves of content in its enormous arsenal, yet the majority of it struggles when people want to use it. Balancing has been reckless and loose, and Javlok's current intention is for us to not use it. The riven system is not a solution as the arsenal division is much more vast than 1.5x dispositions could possibly compensate for. These weapons are not far apart in dispositions either. Javloks is 1.3x, Tonkor is 1.3x, and Penta is 1.35x. Secura Penta, the substantially stronger MR12 version but still awful, is also 1.3x. Javlok again suffers extra on rivens because one of the most substantial stats has no effect on its throw; Multishot.

For fun; with the same build as Tonkor, Kuva Tonkor, the lich explosive with a decent ammo eco still, does 193464 dps statusless and 119978 sustained slash proc dps. 18.7x and 7.9x higher than Javlok's respectively. If the player is aware of how to reload it correctly, those numbers can almost double again. It has an ammo pool of 30, higher than Javlok.

 

Using Penta's build, Javlok's Primary fire, which has a much smaller radius of 2.4m, deals 45123 sustained statusless dps and 25403 sustained slash proc dps to single targets. Stronger than its alt-fire, despite having one of the best ammo economies in the game with 150 slow-firing rockets This attack deserves its own analysis however, which I'll write the next time I catch a Xenneth post about Javlok, as there is more to say about it than the alt-fire.

 

tl;dr, Javlok is easily the worst in its class, far outdone by an MR5 weapon, and doesn't hold a candle to the Kuva weapons for content we want to use it in, even if multishot worked on it. Only a patch ago, it was slightly better, it did double damage on its throw for likely years until it was 'fixed' in the latest rework.