Enemy one shots in new missions

[peq42]

New update, old story. This is still an issue

[peq42]

21 hours ago, Faulcun said:

But the only reason we even know about it is because somebody's super armor inaros died and is really upset about it.

 

Each and every warframe has a different role. Inaros is a tank warframe, with support abilities(such as, making few enemies open to finisher easily, which heals allies), meant to help allies, face tank bosses to distract them while others kill, and revive allies. Nova and Mag can both turn a whole ROOM of enemies into wet paper, easily killable. So frames meant for survival, defense, etc on high level

 

 

What I'm complaining would be like if there was now a mission, with interesting rewards, where you need to kill enemies within a short amount of time and your AOE abilities didnt even work on them, making your whole frame useless.

 

How come you can't see that one shot mechanics, for common enemies(bosses? Fine. I'm used to wipe mechanics like in Destiny. But not common enemies) is plain bad when u cant even revive yourself, fully depending on your allies?

 

[Lorechill]

On 2022-09-10 at 12:22 AM, Faulcun said:

i disagree with that. Ive been using a glass cannon for years. If anybody should have died out there, its me. But I didnt.

I think people rely too heavily on their builds. Ive been saying since the beginning... frames like rhino and inaros make players bad. After so many years of relying on iron skin or 10k health you forget to look for real threats in a mission. Thats because there are no real threats in a mission because you cant die.

So fast forward to higher level enemies... all of a sudden death occurs and we dont know what to do. We forgot or never learned simple enemy threat assessment.

I see drones.. I focus on drones. I see ancients, I focus on ancients. I see bombards, I focus on bombards.

In this case.... I see random orange glowing enemies that look different... I focus on them cause in the back of my mind I know people are getting one shot from some enemy wearing some kind of armor.

 

Im not saying there isnt an issue here... maybe 14k damage isnt intentional, maybe it is at that level. Im sure we'll find out though. In the meantime, I think we all should play like we're afraid of getting one shot all the time.

This right here. We've become so complacent over time that the concept of dying has become myth. When it happens, our worldview shatters and we are left flabbergasted by the fact that it CAN happen.  

[Do_High_Go]

On 2022-09-14 at 2:58 AM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

That narmer mask is quite destructive. It's hugely telegraphed but in the Archon sortie it's difficult to pick up.

The objective got blasted twice when I tried playing and between that and the sentient beams you really have to be on your toes. 

It might be telegraphed but jeez, i saw it multiple times, the enemy is in a dark corridor, 150+ meters away, charging it up, with pinpoint accuracy it hits the target, the projectile is not too fast, but in the soup of orange particles and glowing orange helmets, and arson and blitz eximuses self replicating the moment one is dead, I can see how someone can miss it while guarding an objective or fighting an Archon.

It does remind me of Nira's whip attack projectile, question is, why a trash mob can shoot it from it's face, kinda sus.

[Shatter_The_Sun]

On 2022-09-09 at 3:20 PM, elpeleq42 said:

or maybe, just maybe, being one shot is just bad in general

Great. Now we run into the other side of the issue. People complaining about being one shot. One side wants enemies to be stronger and more scary. The other side doesnt want to be oneshot. How do you make something difficult without bumping stats while also allowing the wide variety of frames/weapons/mods all viable?

[peq42]

Just now, Shatter_The_Sun said:

Great. Now we run into the other side of the issue. People complaining about being one shot. One side wants enemies to be stronger and more scary. The other side doesnt want to be oneshot. How do you make something difficult without bumping stats while also allowing the wide variety of frames/weapons/mods all viable?

and thats where GAME DESIGNERS come in

 

One shot mechanics on a weak unit is bad. But so is having enemies with 2 braincels and that can barely survive .2s . So what we do? Make smarter enemies, with different mechanics each, slightly stronger but not above the player's level(after all we arent playing a PvP game, but a PvE), combine it with maybe some parkour and/or puzzles and BOOM!

[Shatter_The_Sun]

Just now, elpeleq42 said:

and thats where GAME DESIGNERS come in

 

One shot mechanics on a weak unit is bad. But so is having enemies with 2 braincels and that can barely survive .2s . So what we do? Make smarter enemies, with different mechanics each, slightly stronger but not above the player's level(after all we arent playing a PvP game, but a PvE), combine it with maybe some parkour and/or puzzles and BOOM!

Anybody can scream GAME DESIGNERS but the reality is, they are just human. They also have limits to what they can do with what they have. There are many things that go into making enemies. Yes it's their job to make better game design but that doesnt mean they are miracle workers. Not to mention they also have to work off of a base. Microtransactions/In-game lore/different PC specs/old code bases/etc. There is so much that goes into just making enemies do things. 

Smarter enemies means better AI which opens up a whole can of worms on the network side of things. Hell, it may even affect FPS for lower end consoles and PCs as more updates means more lag. Multiply that by 100 and you already see the issues.

I have personally offered ideas for mechanics for quite a while. I like it when enemies using things like Silence/Flashbangs/Cold procs. Things that restrict us from playing so that we are almost forced to deal with them or run away.

Saying "Slightly Stronger" doesnt mean anything when you factor in all the variables to consider. Its like dragon ball. Limits need to be broken to keep players entertained. Eventually there will be a mission or enemy that breaks the rules so that it can put the player in it's place so the player doesnt get bored. The issue here is. We are playing with gods. 

 

Here is an article about the complexities of something as simple as a door when considering game design.

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/-quot-the-door-problem-quot-of-game-design

 

[Frendh]

I can see the one shot face cannon being frustrating in solo mode. But in a squad it is a minor issue.  It is a high level mission, I do not see any problems with having a couple of slow one shot attacks in such a mission. It is not like it is a common occurrence no? I suspect I died once to it. I fought the first boss about 5 times and the second boss 1 time.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, Frendh said:

I can see the one shot face cannon being frustrating in solo mode. But in a squad it is a minor issue.  It is a high level mission, I do not see any problems with having a couple of slow one shot attacks in such a mission. It is not like it is a common occurrence no? I suspect I died once to it. I fought the first boss about 5 times and the second boss 1 time.

It can be pretty common at least during some of the defense mission out of about 12 enemies on the screen 5 of them had the glow that showed they could do the attack. The other thing is we're talking about the same ~150 level enemies who seem to have a range of damage from 1k which killed me because I was sloppy, 14k that killed me because I had no shields gate, and 40k that other people have seen in their logs. For the same enemy with the same attack to be doing that kind of spread something is either wrong or there's another mechanic that zero people have picked up on that is causing that damage jump.

[Faulcun]

On 2022-09-15 at 5:39 PM, Drasiel said:

For the same enemy with the same attack to be doing that kind of spread something is either wrong or there's another mechanic that zero people have picked up on that is causing that damage jump.

is that simply the damage dealt after armor calculation? Or was the 14k and the 40k both inaros?

[Drasiel]

49 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

is that simply the damage dealt after armor calculation? Or was the 14k and the 40k both inaros?

I do not know if the total damage listed in the log death line is before or after taking armour into account. It does list how much of the total damage killed you though.  The 14k Was with my Rhino (2k or 3k out of the 14k was what killed me) while the 40k was from @Solutha they did not mention what frame they were using.

[RLanzinger]

On 2022-09-20 at 4:30 AM, Faulcun said:

is that simply the damage dealt after armor calculation? Or was the 14k and the 40k both inaros?

Personnaly I had Inaros and assuming Erro.log give damage...

• after armor calculation : 697 armor & 24841 damage to health mean 82596 Damage
• before armor calculation : 697 armor & 24841 damage to health mean 7,474 Health lost... which is almost my HP (7417)

So I can guess that the error logs just tell me I have been Oneshoted.

 

On 2022-09-20 at 5:24 AM, Drasiel said:

The 14k Was with my Rhino (2k or 3k out of the 14k was what killed me)

A 14000 Damage with a big armored rhino (1000 armor + 450 x3 armor Health conversion max) means a 1542 HP lost... so OS too