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Revise Lavos' elemental selections


0Midas0

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I find the current system of having to manually select elements between every single ability cast to be very tedious and cumbersome. It slows down the gameplay a lot, especially since you'll have to 'hold' some buttons, making functionally every ability cast take that much longer after you factor 'loading' in your chosen element. What's more, it seems very unnecessary, since it's very rare that you'd need to be swapping elements constantly, so this often means just loading the same element over and over between each cast for whatever type of enemy you are currently fighting. What's more, since Lavos' bonus elements are entirely additions to the abilities, there's literally no drawback to using them, and not using them is just 'doing it wrong'. Meaning it's basically punishing the player every time they don't manually load an element. If it's something that should be a no-brainer action, then it probably shouldn't be something we have to manually fuss with for every single ability cast. If it's supposed to always be available, and isn't supposed to cost anything, then it should just always be available, not something we can choose not to use because there's no situation where not using it is a good idea.

So I propose that we don't do that anymore. Make Lavos' elemental selection stick between casts. There are lots of ways this could be done:
-Make the elements last a certain amount of 'uses'. IE, loading an element means you'll get, say, 4 ability casts that will include that element. It would be almost like an ammo loading system, except now with a magazine instead of having to load each use between ability casts. Once you've used them up, it wears off, and would need to be loaded again. This would be a good comprise if the goal is to make the manual loading of elements a part of Lavos' gameplay.
-Give it a timer. Like say 30 seconds after you pop an element, you'll have that element selected until the timer runs out. 
-Make it a toggle system, where toggling an element turns it on, and toggling it again turns it off. It can still be limited to 1 combo element, and just any presses after that replace the oldest element. Personally, I think this would be the best approach. It would make the elements something you 'equip' and once equipped the stay equipped until you switch to a different one. 

I feel like any of these changes would make lavos a lot more dynamic and fun to play. You can focus more on the action, and less on micro-management of element selection, but the option would still be there to be swapping elements around where needed. 

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I always found Lavos very clunky for this reason and I can't play him for long without feeling like his gameplay is a chore. It's not like the mission will change a faction thus you'd need a different element every time you cast.
I think what could work is filling the vials keeping their element, and give a button to clear the vials so you could still refill them with a primary element if it was needed. Just please, do not make dashing do that. (Always hated Limbo having dash as an ability instead a normal movement tool like on all other frames.) And DE please don't make this needed QoL change an augment that takes up a mod slot either.

If cleaning the vials can't be bound to any button, then your toggle idea sounds nice.
Though I could imagine holding the interact or maybe finisher button for longer could possibly work to clean vials, unless it would conflict with something else.

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I would just make the charged element last indefinitely, and have all ability casts use that element until another is charged. For secondary elements, we could just assume the player intended on that if two elements are charged in a row before any abilities are cast.

And yes, they should separate the element charging mechanics from the action of ability casting, for helminth reasons

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Just give him two element slots that last indefinitely, with a third elemental charge replacing the oldest charge.

IE: Cast fire, now you have fire and a blank vial. Cast poison, now you have fire and poison vials, making gas. Cast poison again, now the fire one gets replaced, leaving you with two poison vials, thus poison damage.

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  • 3 months later...
On 2022-09-09 at 3:48 AM, 0Midas0 said:

So I propose that we don't do that anymore. Make Lavos' elemental selection stick between casts.

This, exactly. 

Been playing lavos again for ~30 mins and already getting sick of him already because every time I click any ability I need to hold 2 others before-hand to get the basic warframe functionality out his kit. 
There's zero reason for lavos to "forget" the last used element every time he casts an ability. If i want to apply another element just let the player over-write the existing selection with a long press n hold.

Likely the existing system is partially there to allow for the controller users to apply elements one at a time but if that's the case just make it so an extended hold 5+ seconds (user customisable) vs the 1 to apply an element wipes the current selection in favour of the new element. 

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On 2022-12-10 at 3:06 PM, IMMentat said:

This, exactly. 

Been playing lavos again for ~30 mins and already getting sick of him already because every time I click any ability I need to hold 2 others before-hand to get the basic warframe functionality out his kit. 
There's zero reason for lavos to "forget" the last used element every time he casts an ability. If i want to apply another element just let the player over-write the existing selection with a long press n hold.

Likely the existing system is partially there to allow for the controller users to apply elements one at a time but if that's the case just make it so an extended hold 5+ seconds (user customisable) vs the 1 to apply an element wipes the current selection in favour of the new element. 

I think just making it so the Elements don't get removed on cast is probably the easiest way to make Lavos functional while still allowing him to swap them if desired.

You still have to hold the button, but unless you want an entirely new element you'll never have to do it again. 

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