Felarx improvements

[Damocles]

I started using the felarx after the update changes and aside from the small damage buff to incarnon mode, there is actually no real improvement to the gun.

The problems are:

• Its fire rate, magazine/reload makes it important to use up mod slots to fix these problems
• The damage of the regular shotgun does about 2x or more than the incarnon form
• The shotgun could really use some punch through

My thoughts:

1. I think the incarnon form could use a bit more love than a ~16% increase in damage. In fact we can double it just to make it on par, or triple it so it can make up with upfront damage and range, over the loss of slash proccs
2. Punch through needs to be added, not a large number is needed, it's just shotguns are harder to mod for punch through when this particular shotgun already has a fire-rate, magazine, and reload conundrum taking up 2-3 slots already. I feel that competing for a primary slot with the phenmor, it is directly competing against primed shred, which gives fire rate and punch through. It's much easier to charge and deal damage on the phenmor than the felarx because of punch through. Either this or make a shred mod for shotguns

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

2 hours ago, Damocles said:

think the incarnon form could use a bit more love than a ~16% increase in damage. In fact we can double it just to make it on par, or triple it so it can make up with upfront damage and range, over the loss of slash proccs

I agree, it needs a lot more. It should be a crit-Akarius.

Add everything the Akarius has (homing, blast radius) and then ensure that the base DPS is about 2x the non-incarnon form.

2 hours ago, Damocles said:

Punch through needs to be added, not a large number is needed, it's just shotguns are harder to mod for punch through when this particular shotgun already has a fire-rate, magazine, and reload conundrum taking up 2-3 slots already

I think this would be fine if the incarnon mode didn't suck. It's supposed to be a good but not amazing weapon until you trip the incarnon mode, then it becomes a powerhouse for a bit.

So make incarnon:

- Home slightly.

- AoE blast radius.

- Higher damage than shotgun mode.

- New rank 5 evolutions that affect the incarnon mode, the current choices suck (only one isn't a waste of time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Azamagon]

Its Incarnon mode, while still lacking, is imo much better with the bigger hitbox projectiles - It's like a long range Catchmoon/Fulmin. But giving it more RoF, and - instead of damage - some innate multishot would do wonders.

I disagreed with giving the shotgun punchthrough, as that's kinda the point of the Incarnon mode? Also, Seeking Fury is a reasonable mod to slot in. The weapon has such high damage, you have plenty of room for QoL mods (which is rather unusual for a Warframe gun, to be honest).

As for the modding: If you have issues with fire rate, there's Mounting Momentum. If you have issues with reloadspeed, there's Evolved Autoloader (as well as Primary Merciless, Chilling Reload and Seeking Fury). You don't need to mod for EVERYTHING, that's what the evolutions are meant to help with too.

On 2022-09-11 at 9:53 PM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

I agree, it needs a lot more. It should be a crit-Akarius.

Add everything the Akarius has (homing, blast radius) and then ensure that the base DPS is about 2x the non-incarnon form.

I think this would be fine if the incarnon mode didn't suck. It's supposed to be a good but not amazing weapon until you trip the incarnon mode, then it becomes a powerhouse for a bit.

So make incarnon:

- Home slightly.

- AoE blast radius.

- Higher damage than shotgun mode.

- New rank 5 evolutions that affect the incarnon mode, the current choices suck (only one isn't a waste of time).

I disagreed heavily with Homing + AoE capabilities. It has the longrange Catchmoon/Fulmin projectile, that's plenty powerful as it is. However, I agreed that the rank 5 evolutions other than Devastating Attrition need improvements. For its damage, I'd rather give the Incarnon mode some innate multishot over raw damage though. Fits better considering it's evolving from a Shotgun. And a bit of RoF wouldn't hurt either.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

Its Incarnon mode, while still lacking, is imo much better with the bigger hitbox projectiles - It's like a long range Catchmoon/

You can get a primary Catchmoon with Galvanised Acceleration and add a decent riven (which are super common because kitgun) and it easily outperforms the Felarx incarnon mode. That's before you count it's far higher fire rate, extra arcane, and the fact you don't need to activate it will headshots.

Yeah, Incarnon Felarx still has higher range, but there's only a few tiles and the open worlds where you'll be able to tell, and even then... a hip fire pistol with no zoom isn't going to be a great sniper.

The Catchmoon and Fulmin are mid-tier guns, you can reasonably expect to have them by Venus and Jupiter respectively (though both need extra work so players will get them a little later). They're good weapons, and the secondary Catchmoon used to be tediously meta, but they're both somewhat outclassed post lich/sisters and current AoE meta.

The Felarx is from the very last content players get to, after all the star chart and every quest except veilbreaker. The incarnon mode needs to be borderline game breaking (just like the other two incarnon guns). It doesn't need to outperform the Fulmin, it needs to outperform a maxed Tenet Arca Plasmor.

[Azamagon]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

You can get a primary Catchmoon with Galvanised Acceleration and add a decent riven (which are super common because kitgun) and it easily outperforms the Felarx incarnon mode. That's before you count it's far higher fire rate, extra arcane, and the fact you don't need to activate it will headshots.

Yeah, Incarnon Felarx still has higher range, but there's only a few tiles and the open worlds where you'll be able to tell, and even then... a hip fire pistol with no zoom isn't going to be a great sniper.

The Catchmoon and Fulmin are mid-tier guns, you can reasonably expect to have them by Venus and Jupiter respectively (though both need extra work so players will get them a little later). They're good weapons, and the secondary Catchmoon used to be tediously meta, but they're both somewhat outclassed post lich/sisters and current AoE meta.

The Felarx is from the very last content players get to, after all the star chart and every quest except veilbreaker. The incarnon mode needs to be borderline game breaking (just like the other two incarnon guns). It doesn't need to outperform the Fulmin, it needs to outperform a maxed Tenet Arca Plasmor.

I don't disagreed!

It definitely needs stat improvements (again, I think fire rate needs increasing, on par with the base shotgun, give it full auto and give it high innate multishot so it surpasses the power of the base shotgun).

But "projectile-mechanic"-wise, I think it's ok as it is, meaning I don't think it needs more AoE/homing or the likes. I personally am really happy with its wide projectiles.

[(PSN)gadgaurd]

I'm torn.

 

On one hand, the Phenmor vastly outperforms the gun. Hard to get around that one.

 

On the other hand the gun still f***ing wrecks pretty much everything.

 

I'm running around with it now, Forma'ing it while I do Zariman bounties, Steel Path incursions, and so on. In both modes the gun is one tapping almost everything, with two empty mod slots and no Primary Arcane stats. Biggest issues were definitely the reload, fire rate, and(ironically) the massive projectile making me unsure if I was actually getting headshots half the time(which was an issue since I wanted to run Primary Deadhead). 

 

Reload speed was handled with the Evolved Autoload evolution. Switched the Primary Arcane to Dexterity. So when I need to reload and there are still enemies present I lay into them with my melee with one quick combo, get some stacks, and I'm fully reloaded. Firerate...well, I am a Wisp main, but if I needed to Shotgun Barrage works.

 

Still a work in progress on the modding, but I'm honestly not remotely disappointed. 

[deucich]

В 11.09.2022 в 19:58, Damocles сказал:

Its fire rate, magazine/reload makes it important to use up mod slots to fix these problems

You can get +130% fire rate from evolution (using primed ammo stock). As for reload, there is an arcane with +240% reload speed (fractalized reset)

В 11.09.2022 в 19:58, Damocles сказал:

The damage of the regular shotgun does about 2x or more than the incarnon form

Yes, incarnon form isn't worth using, which doesn't seem right

В 11.09.2022 в 19:58, Damocles сказал:

The shotgun could really use some punch through

It has infinite punch through on bodies

[(PSN)gadgaurd]

2 minutes ago, deucich said:

has infinite punch through on bodies

That's the Incarnon form.

[deucich]

14 минут назад, (PSN)gadgaurd сказал:

That's the Incarnon form.

Well, then it was confusing phrasing. Because incarnon form of this weapon is not a shotgun, it's dual pistols.

You can get +4m punch through for incarnon form from 3d step of evolution. Not sure it it would help it though.

Quote from wiki to avoid any misunderstanding:

[(PSN)gadgaurd]

36 minutes ago, deucich said:

Well, then it was confusing phrasing. Because incarnon form of this weapon is not a shotgun, it's dual pistols.

You can get +4m punch through for incarnon form from 3d step of evolution. Not sure it it would help it though.

Quote from wiki to avoid any misunderstanding:

Oh yeah, that's backwards. Hope that's not from DE themselves. 

 

The infinite punch through and ridiculous range are why I like the Incarnon form. Go to a door, see enemies poring into the hallway? One, two shots, everything is dead. 

[Amolistic.]

Guess you haven't tried out xata with its incarnon. Unholy amounts of burst.

And laetum (400dmg total) with the xata combo is very f'ing broken already.

Imagine the 600 dmg incarnon proc the 2000% and scalable with gun CO, unlike laetum which only on direct. (100dmg base, 300 explosion.)

 

Punch through? There's an innate 4m pt If you pick certain evolutions.

[Almxce]

Felarx normal mode seems fine to me, it's powerful especially after you rack up some kills for the arcanes. Incarnon mode has been buffed, don't know if it has infinite body punch through but the punch through it has is extensive. Incarnon mode shots can maybe use a wider hitbox, the shots arc oddly when moving as well so it's better used on a pack of mobs. Ultimately the weapon is in a fine space you just need to be a bit more considered for where you use the incarnon mode.

[Divinehero]

uh.. my incarnon mode felarx can do 6 digit dmg easy when that 2000% dmg evolution procs so i dunno what ur on about.. build it for status and watch stuff melt

[zuraja]

On 2022-09-15 at 11:51 AM, Almxce said:

Felarx normal mode seems fine to me, it's powerful especially after you rack up some kills for the arcanes. Incarnon mode has been buffed, don't know if it has infinite body punch through but the punch through it has is extensive. Incarnon mode shots can maybe use a wider hitbox, the shots arc oddly when moving as well so it's better used on a pack of mobs. Ultimately the weapon is in a fine space you just need to be a bit more considered for where you use the incarnon mode.

The punchthrough on the incarnon mode is really weird to the point that I'm convinced it's bugged.  It seems to high high to infinite punchthrough against bodies but can't shoot through objects no matter what.  Even when I put Seeking Fury on it it can't get through obstacles.  The normal mode on the other hand works exactly the way I would expect a shotgun with Seeking Fury to.  Dual-Mode Chamber doesn't seem to work against objects either.

[FizzyPrincess]

On 2022-09-13 at 12:02 AM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

You can get a primary Catchmoon with Galvanised Acceleration and add a decent riven (which are super common because kitgun) and it easily outperforms the Felarx incarnon mode. That's before you count it's far higher fire rate, extra arcane, and the fact you don't need to activate it will headshots.

Yeah, Incarnon Felarx still has higher range, but there's only a few tiles and the open worlds where you'll be able to tell, and even then... a hip fire pistol with no zoom isn't going to be a great sniper.

The Catchmoon and Fulmin are mid-tier guns, you can reasonably expect to have them by Venus and Jupiter respectively (though both need extra work so players will get them a little later). They're good weapons, and the secondary Catchmoon used to be tediously meta, but they're both somewhat outclassed post lich/sisters and current AoE meta.

The Felarx is from the very last content players get to, after all the star chart and every quest except veilbreaker. The incarnon mode needs to be borderline game breaking (just like the other two incarnon guns). It doesn't need to outperform the Fulmin, it needs to outperform a maxed Tenet Arca Plasmor.

While I agree with your last paragraph I'm going to have to disagree with your catchmoon statement.

I have a pretty decent catchmoon riven and I can comfirm that primary catchmoon just falls behind in every aspect. 

[Harutomata]

The magazine size and reload speed could certainly use an improvement. I feel like I'm reloading more than firing, even with Chilling Reload equipped. I really like the reload per pellet thing though (reminds me a bit of what the Corinth Prime could have been).
The incarnon form feels more like an alternative gun on demand instead an actual, stronger incarnon form with how relatively underwhelming it is compared to the incarnon form of the Phenmor or Laetum. And that's kinda okay if that was the intention, but it still could use some changes on both forms so the weapon feels generally more satisfying to use.

[Mazifet]

for me just making it a pair of full auto shotgun pistols would be good. but who needs full auto when twin rogga one shot everything? :>

[GPrime96]

On 2022-09-11 at 11:58 AM, Damocles said:

I started using the felarx after the update changes and aside from the small damage buff to incarnon mode, there is actually no real improvement to the gun.

The problems are:

• Its fire rate, magazine/reload makes it important to use up mod slots to fix these problems
• The damage of the regular shotgun does about 2x or more than the incarnon form
• The shotgun could really use some punch through

My thoughts:

1. I think the incarnon form could use a bit more love than a ~16% increase in damage. In fact we can double it just to make it on par, or triple it so it can make up with upfront damage and range, over the loss of slash proccs
2. Punch through needs to be added, not a large number is needed, it's just shotguns are harder to mod for punch through when this particular shotgun already has a fire-rate, magazine, and reload conundrum taking up 2-3 slots already. I feel that competing for a primary slot with the phenmor, it is directly competing against primed shred, which gives fire rate and punch through. It's much easier to charge and deal damage on the phenmor than the felarx because of punch through. Either this or make a shred mod for shotguns

It already got infinite body PunchThrough for it's normal mode but wouldn't mind the Incarnon Mode dealing double of it's current damage.

[Almxce]

On 2022-09-22 at 9:55 AM, zuraja said:

The punchthrough on the incarnon mode is really weird to the point that I'm convinced it's bugged.  It seems to high high to infinite punchthrough against bodies but can't shoot through objects no matter what.  Even when I put Seeking Fury on it it can't get through obstacles.  The normal mode on the other hand works exactly the way I would expect a shotgun with Seeking Fury to.  Dual-Mode Chamber doesn't seem to work against objects either.

That's interesting, took it on a steel path interception and it was fine in terms of damage. Killing enemies with relatively few shots in either mode with headshots/punch through. I did notice as well that in Incarnon mode with multishot one of the bullets would fire massively off target at times. I don't know what's going on but the weapon is fine overall, it just has some really weird quirks or bugs lol

[zuraja]

Just adding a new issue here, since the Revenant Prime update reloading is no longer switching the active buff and I'm permanently stuck on whichever one is up when the mission starts.

[Famecans]

Incannon would be great if pistol mods could properly affect Ferlax's incarnot ability. Incarnon system is a new mechanic and maybe this is the goal for the future of weapons, I imagine rifles embodying archguns, shotguns embodying dual pistols, etc...