Richard "loki" Nixon, The Tricky Dick.

[Yg-Dosst]

Kudos to you if you understand the Joke.

 

Loki is currently a problem with being under-powered.

He's Squishy as hell and Can't even be considered a glass cannon because he's all utility.

 

That's why I love him, That doesn't need to change.

It's just that the value of his utility dies off in the later game, which makes no sense as raw utility value should be the same at every level, his abilities in and of themself are also rather lacking on the viability of causing trickery and sowing the seeds of chaos.

Why do I say this?

 

For one, Decoy has health and gets easier and easier to destroy.

For two, Most mods do hardly anything to him, Power Range not affecting Switch Teleport because of the unnecessary range limitations.

And lastly, Radial Disarm at high levels is just as much of a curse as it is a blessing.

Yes, They stop shooting, but For some reason Loki decided to give them Electric Dildo-bats that swing stupidly fast for 600+ damage a swing.

 

You don't want to give a Grineer Heavy Gunner ANY reason to bum-rush you.

Especially not with a 600+ damage electric Dildo-bat...

 

- - -

So what do we do?

It's simple...

 

First order of bushiness, RADIAL DISARM should NOT hand people Melee weapons.

In the game's coding already, enemies possess a "Rifle smash" attack and animations, and it still does a fair amount of damage itself at higher levels.

There's no reason for Radial disarm to give them a Melee buff, when they already possess melee attacks.

Just make the enemy run up and bash with their rifle, or take cover then start to bash when you get near.

And to make it obvious which one's are disarmed, just add Energy colored "Malfunction" sparks around the enemies weaponry.

 

Radial Disarm also has other issues. Such as dealing damage. Stop that.

I know you ran out of ideas of what to do with Infested, but damage was a bad idea.

Instead, Cause a permanent move speed slow on infested chargers/boxheads, no stronger then infested impedance, while disabling the abilities of Ancients caught in the blast. I would have killed for a power that shuts off the Toxic Ancient's Toxic, and the Disruptor's ability to magically remove your own energy. That alone would make him used often for high tier defense and gameplay.

 

Secondly, going down the list of abilities in reverse order.

SWITCH TELEPORT Doesn't let you go beyond the standard 50 meters.

Scoping in with a sniper rifle and swapping places WOULD be something that I'm sure many Loki players would want to do. It means that the only purpose for Power Range is for Radial Disarm, not a bad use of it, but why not just simply allow players to gain even more of a benefit by removing the unnecessary restriction? The Second and Third Ranks for it are EXACTLY the same.

 

Also, there's no real reason behind the "Switch" part of switch teleport. Congrats, an enemy that is now 50 meters away from you is stunned for a second. Whoopee.

Thusly I propose a "Confusion" mechanic akin to Nyx's Chaos, but different enough and only single target.

Whenever you swap places with a target, for 1/2/2.5/3 seconds (modified by power duration) targets have a "hologram" over lay of Loki, are enabled for friendly fire, and nearby enemies start firing at the enemy that was teleported.

Not only would this be hilariously $&*^ish...

It refreshes your aggro.

 

INVISIBILTY is pretty much fine. However the unfair buff leaning towards weapon's already high Charge damage is what it is, unfair. Increase the regular melee damage buff for Invisibility to 100%, the same as the charge damage buff. Galatine Loki is currently the used and abused way to play him at this point and it rubs my jimmies the wrong way that people aren't also encouraged to use weapons on a stealthy character that aren't F--khueg Two-handers.

 

DECOY has more problems then Charles Mason right now. The most obvious being the fact that they much instantly.

Since when were Holograms tangible and had health bars?

Make Decoy invulnerable and rely entirely on it's duration modified by power duration.

And Allow for Decoys to be placed at a large distance.

This is not overpowered by ANY means as even with Decoy up and running ,some people will still target or re-target Loki anyways as per standard aggro mechanics.

 

Being able to keep and maintain multiple decoys as way-points to teleport about the map and kite enemies easier is something that Loki absolutely NEEDS at higher levels, and would make long range gunplay on Loki just as viable as the up close and personal melee blender he can be.

 

- - -

 

So what do you guys think?

Loki is a fun character. But for being based on Raw utility and trickery he lacks it, and it still somehow manages to scale into being worse as you get into harder enemies.

Sorry for the F--khueg post, but that's standard with me, and it's worth a read regardless.

 

Say no to Electric-Dildo bats.

Every time you don't upvote this thread Alad V makes dosh off of all the Prova's you're handing out to people.

Remember, If you're putting out, You're going steady with Alad.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[immolator1001]

tl;dr But I remember when Loki did that whole Forma-gate thing.

[Archistopheles]

Sorry, but your Radial Disarm argument isn't valid.

 

It's not a buff when those heavies would normally 1 shot you with their gun, and you instead force them to run up and hit you for 1/3rd the damage.

[Zhoyzu]

electric dildo-bat. i lol'd

[Yg-Dosst]

Sorry, but your Radial Disarm argument isn't valid.

 

It's not a buff when those heavies would normally 1 shot you with their gun, and you instead force them to run up and hit you for 1/3rd the damage.

 

The arguments of handing them a Prova being completely strange and illogical, immersion breaking even, when they can resort to just hitting you with their gun still resides.

That portion is more of a cosmetic thing then anything else.

Akin to the complaints over Uni-moas

 

What did you think about every other suggestion though?

[TwiceDead]

Simply make Invisibility do backstabs with a fancy animation like Ash if you attempt to charge attack an opponent. Fixes the Galatine issue. 

Otherwise I got nothing right now. Don't feel like kickstarting my brain right now. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

i try to catch every one of these "fix loki" threads and offer the same advice:

decoy - each rank increases the hp/shld/armr from the base of the caster loki so the decoy would have 1x/2x/3x/4x the base hps/shld/armr of the caster loki, this allows the loki to add vit/redirect to toughen up the decoy as well as ranking the decoy (also allow focus/power mods to increase decoy stats)

OPTIONAL (possible alternate ability mods in future): decoy explodes upon death doing 1/2/3/4x the dmg recieved in a small radius

invis - no changes

swap teleport - short duration confuse aoe around enemy targets and original location 1/2/3/4 sec stun and 2/4/6/8 sec confuse

radial disarm - remove the dmg to light infested, disarm now debuffs dmg/atkspd/movspd of all enemies hit by 10/20/30/40% permanently (except bosses, 5/10/15/20% and 10/20/30/40 secs), still disarms ranged weapons and also has a % chance to critically disarm enemies causing a weapon malfunction which explodes doing dmg to the targets (10/20/30/40% chance to cause 200/400/600/800 base dmg), this random dmg is not a "press 4 to win" button, but more of a flavorful way to enhance the ability, since it would happen less than 50% of the time (allow the debuffs and dmg to be enhanced by mods, but not the crit chance)

with these changes, decoy is now viable at all levels and scales well, radial disarm is useful against all enemies, and swap teleport has real in-combat functionality (invis really needed no help)

Edited November 19, 2013 by CY13ERPUNK

[Seaverett]

I'd give you all the +1's you want but I can only give one. 

[Letter13]

But I like my disco sticks...

[Archistopheles]

The arguments of handing them a Prova being completely strange and illogical, immersion breaking even, when they can resort to just hitting you with their gun still resides.

That portion is more of a cosmetic thing then anything else.

Akin to the complaints over Uni-moas

 

What did you think about every other suggestion though?

 

At the same time, though, it's very clear to players which enemies are disarmed, and which are not. It may be a little silly, but it does make sense from a game design standpoint because it removes the burden of knowledge for new players.

 

I'm not qualified to comment on your other suggestions.

[LukeAura]

 

i try to catch every one of these "fix loki" threads and offer the same advice:

decoy - each rank increases the hp/shld/armr from the base of the caster loki so the decoy would have 1x/2x/3x/4x the base hps/shld/armr of the caster loki, this allows the loki to add vit/redirect to toughen up the decoy as well as ranking the decoy (also allow focus/power mods to increase decoy stats)

OPTIONAL (possible alternate ability mods in future): decoy explodes upon death doing 1/2/3/4x the dmg recieved in a small radius

invis - no changes

swap teleport - short duration confuse aoe around enemy targets and original location 1/2/3/4 sec stun and 2/4/6/8 sec confuse

radial disarm - remove the dmg to light infested, disarm now debuffs dmg/atkspd/movspd of all enemies hit by 10/20/30/40% permanently (except bosses, 5/10/15/20% and 10/20/30/40 secs), still disarms ranged weapons and also has a % chance to critically disarm enemies causing a weapon malfunction which explodes doing dmg to the targets (10/20/30/40% chance to cause 200/400/600/800 base dmg), this random dmg is not a "press 4 to win" button, but more of a flavorful way to enhance the ability, since it would happen less than 50% of the time (allow the debuffs and dmg to be enhanced by mods, but not the crit chance)

with these changes, decoy is now viable at all levels and scales well, radial disarm is useful against all enemies, and swap teleport has real in-combat functionality (invis really needed no help)

 

Armour would be multiplied too? 

Lokigram, best tank. 

Wait a minute, 50(base armour)*2.1(max steel fiber)*4=420.  Coincidence? I think not!

Seriously though, those are pretty good ideas and a decoy with approximately 4k effective durability would be great for a long time. 

I still think Loki should deal no direct damage with his abilities though, maybe make the critical malfunction cause an extra debuff instead? armour malfunction as well? or maybe Blinds enemies? 

Switch teleport needs the short duration confuse as well.

[Yg-Dosst]

At the same time, though, it's very clear to players which enemies are disarmed, and which are not. It may be a little silly, but it does make sense from a game design standpoint because it removes the burden of knowledge for new players.

 

I'm not qualified to comment on your other suggestions.

 

That is true.

It would need a visual indicator to signify who was disarmed.

But an Energy colored aura of "Malfunction" sparks around the enemies weaponry would probably be a better solution.

 

I need to edit that into the OP.

[TennoSimons]

First of all, thank you for not suggesting health and ridiculous power buffs for Loki (the modest buff to non-charge melee attacks whilst invisible seems fair enough).

 

I think that all of your points are valid and would make Loki more fun to play and to customize with mods. Seriously, I would love to see each of those recommendations implemented. They seem like they wouldn't require too, too much work for DE.

 

 

One idea I have floated out in another forum for Decoy (one that would make Loki even trickier and nastier) is that Decoy should be castable on targets (at least roughly Loki-sized targets). If cast on such an eligible enemy other enemies would attack said enemy just as they would any decoy. Perhaps, especially for ''smarter'' (read: non-infested) at least enemies who didn't ''see'' the enemy get turned into a holographic version of Loki would fall for it. This would at least make Decoy less useless and would differentiate it from Saryn's Molt -- which itself could get a buff by exploding or something at the end of its duration, but that is a different story. 

 

You sir have my thumbs up.

[KittyDarkling]

    SIR/MADAM! The sheer number of times i've posted 70% of these ideas, I've yet to hear 30% of them! I do try to attack every single loki post I see slip through these forums.. I'm like an awful plague that way. and as I read your post i found for most of it I was yesing over and over!!! here be the sticky bits though.

 

    - Correct me if I'm wrong but the max range of decoy/switch teleport is only capped by the game's hard range limit? I've never particularly needed more range so I'm impartial to this part of your post~

 

    - You didn't clarify what happens to allies you switch with, I feel like all enemies who are arggroing your allies or you, should be stunned (play the look around wtf just happened?) for about 3 seconds while they run off to safety or you execute your next move! Perhaps turning invisible just before they notice you're there!

        - Or in the case of your decoy, it merely absorbs all of your aggro Nothing lengthy mind you, if you shoot one of them I'm sure they'll take notice of you quite quickly again (so no lasting effects basically, it just grabs what yeh got and leaves yeh on your own)

 

Well that certainly was very negative of me... now for the more positive input!

 

    - Mind you this was not my Idea and the person in question's name eludes me at the moment, but one such gentlemen suggested in the scenario that Loki gets an aggro shifting friendly fire inducing switch teleport, That explosive barrels become viable targets to switch with. I hope you understand how golden this idea is.... Thank you person who knows I'm talking about them, possibly through some form of mystical "make Loki all he can be" powers...

 

    And finally that YOU OP! This post is beautiful, as are you and everyone who upvotes! ( +1 )

[Yg-Dosst]

    SIR/MADAM! The sheer number of times i've posted 70% of these ideas, I've yet to hear 30% of them! I do try to attack every single loki post I see slip through these forums.. I'm like an awful plague that way. and as I read your post i found for most of it I was yesing over and over!!! here be the sticky bits though.

 

    - Correct me if I'm wrong but the max range of decoy/switch teleport is only capped by the game's hard range limit? I've never particularly needed more range so I'm impartial to this part of your post~

 

    - You didn't clarify what happens to allies you switch with, I feel like all enemies who are arggroing your allies or you, should be stunned (play the look around wtf just happened?) for about 3 seconds while they run off to safety or you execute your next move! Perhaps turning invisible just before they notice you're there!

        - Or in the case of your decoy, it merely absorbs all of your aggro Nothing lengthy mind you, if you shoot one of them I'm sure they'll take notice of you quite quickly again (so no lasting effects basically, it just grabs what yeh got and leaves yeh on your own)

 

Well that certainly was very negative of me... now for the more positive input!

 

    - Mind you this was not my Idea and the person in question's name eludes me at the moment, but one such gentlemen suggested in the scenario that Loki gets an aggro shifting friendly fire inducing switch teleport, That explosive barrels become viable targets to switch with. I hope you understand how golden this idea is.... Thank you person who knows I'm talking about them, possibly through some form of mystical "make Loki all he can be" powers...

 

    And finally that YOU OP! This post is beautiful, as are you and everyone who upvotes! ( +1 )

 

Well that certainly means the Max range limit is Interfereing with the ability to play Long-range frames now isn't it?

Unless I'm mistaken, That limit was implemented back BEFORE we had the massive, expansive, and Open-skybox tile sets of Phobos, Venus, and the like.

While it may not be necessary by your standard stretch of the imagination, the ability to blink and swap places with that dot over there, standing on the glacier would be most magnificent.

 

As for teleporting with allies and Decoys, I believe the mechanics should work similarly.

Your Decoy is already a holographic clone of you, so no need for the overlay, just make it take your aggro.

As for allies, the aggro on BOTH of you should be broken.

Enemies seem to naturally have a "Delay" on changing targets from one player to another, so that "Stun" period may be naturally in the game already by some standards, but I do believe it should not be a literal hard stun, in case the ally begins attacking or trying to actively swap that aggro.

Then again I may be wrong, but if that is the case, delaying the enemies' ability to be aggro'd for 1.5 seconds should be more then enough.

 

And don't be ashamed.

I've had posts MUCH more negative then yours.

In fact it's one of the most cheery and upbeat I've seen.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Yg-Dosst

[fatpig84]

The dildo bat doesn't hurt as much as a level 150 scorcher that touches u for 1 second.

Perspective man.

 

But disabling infested is a NEAT idea, in fact I have being asking for that for the longest time.

Heck just cutting off all ancient infested abilities alone is good enough.

 

Decoy could use a short invulnerability or a stun when destroyed though.

So as to function to keep their enemy there.

 

As for invisibility, I say live it alone, the bonus is flat across the board for all melee attacks.

But we have to wait for armor 2.0 for any major improvement.

[Yg-Dosst]

The dildo bat doesn't hurt as much as a level 150 scorcher that touches u for 1 second.

Perspective man.

 

But disabling infested is a NEAT idea, in fact I have being asking for that for the longest time.

Heck just cutting off all ancient infested abilities alone is good enough.

 

Decoy could use a short invulnerability or a stun when destroyed though.

So as to function to keep their enemy there.

 

As for invisibility, I say live it alone, the bonus is flat across the board for all melee attacks.

But we have to wait for armor 2.0 for any major improvement.

 

Well, They won't be shooting flames anymore regardless. I'm just asking to replace their EDB's with the much weaker, much slower melee attack they already have and use when you normally get too close to them. Basically Actually Disarm them, not RE-arm them.

Essentially make the Enemy DPS drop even more severe.

And make is less visually strange/ immersion breaking.

 

And the thought's behind the Stealth damage bonus tweak was because I personally believe this game unfairly leans towards charge damage weaponry. I'd like to use my Dakra P/Fang P on Loki/Ash and Keep up with Galatine/Orthos P DPS.

[Revel72]

How to make Loki viable again:

 

Step 1: Bring back his magnificent sprint speed.

Step 2: Just like what Thread Owner commentate about Decoy, Switch Teleport and Radial disarm should happen.

Step 3: Remove the damage to infestation. Change it to stun for let's say 2 seconds when maxed.

Step 4: ???

Step 5: MORE LOKI PLAYERS!

[Yg-Dosst]

How to make Loki viable again:

 

Step 1: Bring back his magnificent sprint speed.

Step 2: Just like what Thread Owner commentate about Decoy, Switch Teleport and Radial disarm should happen.

Step 3: Remove the damage to infestation. Change it to stun for let's say 2 seconds when maxed.

Step 4: ???

Step 5: MORE LOKI PLAYERS!

 

If JUST the Radial Disarm was fixed/implemented as I suggested, you'd actually see Loki's played on Infested Defense.

Beyond a Galatine Pony that is.

[Revel72]

If JUST the Radial Disarm was fixed/implemented as I suggested, you'd actually see Loki's played on Infested Defense.

Beyond a Galatine Pony that is.

 

Demoman: Sí

[Yg-Dosst]

On the Bright side Damage 2.0 didn't affect this suggestion AT ALL.

Because there's nothing in relation to Damage!

Like it should be.

 :D